Hey, all.

I'm teaching myself how to build picture frames, cut matting, cut
glass, all that jazz, so I don't have to rely on retailers with high
markup.

At this point, the only thing I've found that really works for me is
standard 1" moulding from Home Depot. There's no rabbet in there, so I
need to line it with small blocks to position the glass and matting in
the frame so it's near the inside edge, and to receive the glazing
points I use to secure all the layers of backing and matting and such.

I'd love to find a supplier of stock I could use for this endeavor, but
I'd want stock that has the 1/8" rabbet, but is still not fully
finished material - I'd want to stain/paint it and finish it myself.

So far, I've struck out completely in securing such stuff.

Does anyone know where I might find some variety of unfinished frame
moulding that I can buy by the foot?

I'm in Canada, fwiw. ;-)

Thanks!

BD wrote:

Hey, all.

I'm teaching myself how to build picture frames, cut matting, cut
glass, all that jazz, so I don't have to rely on retailers with high
markup.

At this point, the only thing I've found that really works for me is
standard 1" moulding from Home Depot. There's no rabbet in there, so I
need to line it with small blocks to position the glass and matting in
the frame so it's near the inside edge, and to receive the glazing
points I use to secure all the layers of backing and matting and such.

I'd love to find a supplier of stock I could use for this endeavor, but
I'd want stock that has the 1/8" rabbet, but is still not fully
finished material - I'd want to stain/paint it and finish it myself.

So far, I've struck out completely in securing such stuff.

Does anyone know where I might find some variety of unfinished frame
moulding that I can buy by the foot?

I'm in Canada, fwiw. ;-)

First, find a good _hardwood_ lumber yard. You'll be wanting to do that in
any case--the hardwood stock at the BORGs is pitiful and overpriced
besides.

Next, talk to the proprietor about what you want to do--many such yards can
produce millwork to order. You'll need to buy quite a bit for this to save
you money--there's usually a setup charge and even more if he has to have
cutters made--but you'll get _exactly_ what you want.

As an alternative, if this is small volume for a hobby, would be to get a
router and router table--then you can make your own out of any kind of
wood. Make sure the router takes 1/2" diameter shanks as well as 1/4" if
you do that.



Thanks!

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Agreed, table router seems the way to go. Seems like you would need to
be doing a lot to make it worth the effort.

Watch your fingers.

Good luck.


J. Clarke wrote:
BD wrote:

Hey, all.

I'm teaching myself how to build picture frames, cut matting, cut
glass, all that jazz, so I don't have to rely on retailers with high
markup.

At this point, the only thing I've found that really works for me is
standard 1" moulding from Home Depot. There's no rabbet in there, so I
need to line it with small blocks to position the glass and matting in
the frame so it's near the inside edge, and to receive the glazing
points I use to secure all the layers of backing and matting and such.

I'd love to find a supplier of stock I could use for this endeavor, but
I'd want stock that has the 1/8" rabbet, but is still not fully
finished material - I'd want to stain/paint it and finish it myself.

So far, I've struck out completely in securing such stuff.

Does anyone know where I might find some variety of unfinished frame
moulding that I can buy by the foot?

I'm in Canada, fwiw. ;-)

First, find a good _hardwood_ lumber yard. You'll be wanting to do that in
any case--the hardwood stock at the BORGs is pitiful and overpriced
besides.

Next, talk to the proprietor about what you want to do--many such yards can
produce millwork to order. You'll need to buy quite a bit for this to save
you money--there's usually a setup charge and even more if he has to have
cutters made--but you'll get _exactly_ what you want.

As an alternative, if this is small volume for a hobby, would be to get a
router and router table--then you can make your own out of any kind of
wood. Make sure the router takes 1/2" diameter shanks as well as 1/4" if
you do that.



Thanks!

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

BD wrote:

I'm teaching myself how to build picture frames . . .
[...]
At this point, the only thing I've found that really works for me is
standard 1" moulding from Home Depot.
[...]
I'd love to find a supplier of stock I could use for this endeavor, but
I'd want stock that has the 1/8" rabbet, but is still not fully
finished material - I'd want to stain/paint it and finish it myself.

This may not be the answer you're looking for, but I'll throw it
out there anyway.

Why not just make the rabbet yourself? Home Depot has a combination
router table and router from Ryobi[1][2] for about $99. I don't
think that combo comes with any bits so add on just a straight cut
bit[3] or a small bit set[4] that includes the straight cut bit.


[1]: http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...o.0& MID=9876
[2]: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/tool/r162rta/
[3]: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...168,46171&ap=1
[4]: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/tool/a25rs12/

BD wrote:

I'd love to find a supplier of stock I could use for this endeavor,
but I'd want stock that has the 1/8" rabbet, but is still not fully
finished material - I'd want to stain/paint it and finish it myself.

So far, I've struck out completely in securing such stuff.

Does anyone know where I might find some variety of unfinished frame
moulding that I can buy by the foot?

You can get raw stock in many profiles from any supplier (not retail frame
shop) of frame moldings. Most also offer a chop service; i.e., they'll
miter it to length for you.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Look at the ads in the back of artist magazines. You can buy precut stock
with the hardware to assemble quite cheaply.
Bob

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPR...ARTNUM=864-745

or

http://www.omegamoulding.com/indexs2.htm and look at their
online catalog.

Frank

"BD" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey, all.

I'm teaching myself how to build picture frames, cut
matting, cut
glass, all that jazz, so I don't have to rely on retailers
with high
markup.

At this point, the only thing I've found that really works
for me is
standard 1" moulding from Home Depot. There's no rabbet in
there, so I
need to line it with small blocks to position the glass
and matting in
the frame so it's near the inside edge, and to receive the
glazing
points I use to secure all the layers of backing and
matting and such.

I'd love to find a supplier of stock I could use for this
endeavor, but
I'd want stock that has the 1/8" rabbet, but is still not
fully
finished material - I'd want to stain/paint it and finish
it myself.

So far, I've struck out completely in securing such stuff.

Does anyone know where I might find some variety of
unfinished frame
moulding that I can buy by the foot?

I'm in Canada, fwiw. ;-)

Thanks!

Why not just make the rabbet yourself?

Mainly because I'd have to find somewhere to go in order to do it. I'm
in an apartment, and that's way too much noise. With the added
pain-in-the-ass factor of having to pack everything up and relocate
whenever I want to grind out a frame, it does almost make as much sense
to get prefab stock cut to length. I can miter by hand and do all the
rest of the stuff quietly enough...

Home Depot has a combination
router table and router from Ryobi[1][2] for about $99. I don't
think that combo comes with any bits so add on just a straight cut
bit[3] or a small bit set[4] that includes the straight cut bit.


[1]: http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...o.0& MID=9876
[2]: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/tool/r162rta/
[3]: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...168,46171&ap=1
[4]: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/tool/a25rs12/

You could go old school with a Stanley #78...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...nce&n=11052651

That would make a lovely rabbit for you with no noise at all


BD wrote:
Why not just make the rabbet yourself?

Mainly because I'd have to find somewhere to go in order to do it. I'm
in an apartment, and that's way too much noise. With the added
pain-in-the-ass factor of having to pack everything up and relocate
whenever I want to grind out a frame, it does almost make as much sense
to get prefab stock cut to length. I can miter by hand and do all the
rest of the stuff quietly enough...

Home Depot has a combination
router table and router from Ryobi[1][2] for about $99. I don't
think that combo comes with any bits so add on just a straight cut
bit[3] or a small bit set[4] that includes the straight cut bit.


[1]: http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...o.0& MID=9876
[2]: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/tool/r162rta/
[3]: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...168,46171&ap=1
[4]: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/tool/a25rs12/

http://www.omegamoulding.com/indexs2.htm and look at their
online catalog.

I called them and they claim to be a wholesaler, and won't sell to poor
insignificant end consumers like me.

"BD" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.omegamoulding.com/indexs2.htm and look at
their
online catalog.

I called them and they claim to be a wholesaler, and won't
sell to poor
insignificant end consumers like me.


Call again and get a retailer's name.

Call again and get a retailer's name.

Eh? I hate to sound dense, but I'm not sure what you're suggesting...

"damian penney" wrote in message
oups.com...
You could go old school with a Stanley #78...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...nce&n=11052651

That would make a lovely rabbit for you with no noise at all

I dunno, if you took that plane to a rabbit there might be a lot of noise.
KM

"BD" wrote in message
oups.com...
Call again and get a retailer's name.

Eh? I hate to sound dense, but I'm not sure what you're
suggesting...

Call Omega and ask them to give you the names of some
retailers. You can then order what you want through the
retailer. I've bought bulk frame moulding through a framing
shop.

Call Omega and ask them to give you the names of some
retailers. You can then order what you want through the
retailer. I've bought bulk frame moulding through a framing
shop.

I see. Well, unless they have a retailer in my city, I expect I'm just
as well off ordering through a local retailer. If I'm paying retail for
stock, I'm paying retail - and at this point I have no particular brand
loyalty.

I do have a local retailer who encourages DIY; they will do the work
for you if you like, but they also sell full sheets of matting, and (I
discovered only yesterday) will provide framing stock, either mitered
to length, or in lengths that I could cut up myself.

So now it's just a question of confirming how good a deal I'm getting -
which will take some comparison.

BD wrote:
Call Omega and ask them to give you the names of some
retailers. You can then order what you want through the
retailer. I've bought bulk frame moulding through a framing
shop.

I see. Well, unless they have a retailer in my city, I expect I'm just
as well off ordering through a local retailer. If I'm paying retail for
stock, I'm paying retail - and at this point I have no particular brand
loyalty.

I do have a local retailer who encourages DIY; they will do the work
for you if you like, but they also sell full sheets of matting, and (I
discovered only yesterday) will provide framing stock, either mitered
to length, or in lengths that I could cut up myself.

So now it's just a question of confirming how good a deal I'm getting -
which will take some comparison.

I have an interest in this too. I see on the Omegas site under catalog
request they say "Please note, the catalog costs $25 and it will be
credited against your first invoice of $100.00 or more." This is
typical. Very often, you don't HAVE to BE a retailer to deal with a
wholesaler, just act like one. I've done this in the past with other
interests, notably watchmaking. Call yourself "Bill's Framing Depot",
order a catalog, then get your $25 back on the 1st order (if you're
doing this enough to justify the trouble, you should spend $100 pretty
quickly). Occasionally a wholesaler may require a state reseller's tax
number, but if you're not located in a state where they would have to
charge you sales tax for a retail sale, this probably isn't an issue.
Worth a try.

Dan

BD wrote:
Occasionally a wholesaler may require a state reseller's tax
number

This is the first thing they asked me for.

Interesting. Are you in one of the states where they have an office?
You CAN get such a tax number, usually just a matter of filing a form,
in my experience (in Ohio, may vary by state) BUT come tax time you
generally have to report any activity (or the lack thereof) to your
state tax people. Basically, they want you to hand over to THEM any
sales tax you've collected. If you've had no sales, (you know, that
whole thing about XX% of new businesses failing in the 1st year ;-) you
can just report that. All this may be more f'ing around than it's worth
for a particular dealer/item of course, depending in your situation, how
available the items are elsewhere & at what cost, etc. Which would be
the case for me in the case of the framing materials.

BTW if you DO find a good/cheap source for this stuff, please pass it on.

Dan

Interesting. Are you in one of the states where they have an office?

I'm in Canada. Whole different ball o wax.

BTW if you DO find a good/cheap source for this stuff, please pass it on.

Yup. I still don't have a good appreciation for what counts as 'cheap',
because all the stock is so different, but yeah, if I think I've found
a good deal I'll post it.

BD wrote:
Interesting. Are you in one of the states where they have an office?

I'm in Canada. Whole different ball o wax.

Kettle o' fish, anyway! ;-)


BTW if you DO find a good/cheap source for this stuff, please pass it on.

Yup. I still don't have a good appreciation for what counts as 'cheap',
because all the stock is so different, but yeah, if I think I've found
a good deal I'll post it.


Thanks!

"BD" wrote in message
ups.com...
Call Omega and ask them to give you the names of some
retailers. You can then order what you want through the
retailer. I've bought bulk frame moulding through a
framing
shop.

I see. Well, unless they have a retailer in my city, I
expect I'm just
as well off ordering through a local retailer. If I'm
paying retail for
stock, I'm paying retail - and at this point I have no
particular brand
loyalty.

I do have a local retailer who encourages DIY; they will
do the work
for you if you like, but they also sell full sheets of
matting, and (I
discovered only yesterday) will provide framing stock,
either mitered
to length, or in lengths that I could cut up myself.

So now it's just a question of confirming how good a deal
I'm getting -
which will take some comparison.

Here are more links for frame molding. I don't know if they
sell retail or wholesale.

Have you done a Google search for "picture frame molding"?
That's where I found these. There are many more pages to
view. Notice the spelling of molding.

http://www.vandykes.com/subcategory/231/

http://www.yuenger.com/

Have you done a Google search for "picture frame molding"?

Interesting. No, I've searched for 'picture frame stock' and 'picture
frame moulding'

Thanks - I'll certainly follow up on those!

Look, Picture framing is a racket (more or less). But you CAN do what
I did. I'm a photographer and I do alot of my own framing. I wanted
to buy frame materials at wholesale, so I wanted to deal with a
supplier.

The reason they require a tax ID is that they dont want to deal with
charging you sales tax. They sell only to business and those
businesses deal with the tax.

1) File a DBA (costs about $30 and a little of your time).
2) Get a state sales tax #. This requies filling out a form. No fee.
The downside of this is you will probably have to file quarterly sales
tax forms. Not hard - just annoying
3) go back to supplier and buy whatever you want.

Umm, BD you're adding 2 plus 2 and getting 3.

In another post, you mention that you are thinking about starting to
charge for your photography, plus you might want to start doing
framing. Also, the whole photoshop thing. That's all well and good,
but guess what, if you want to be treated as a professional you have to
act like one. The FIRST thing you need to do is go get a tax ID number
because you need to start collecting sales tax. So go get the stupid
number and give it to the supplier. NBD.

Supplier don't want to deal with someone without one for a variety of
reasons: they don't want to compete with their retailers; they don't
want to collect sales tax; they don't want to deal with small orders;
etc. etc. The down side is that if you want to have the benefits of a
tax ID number, you have the drawbacks to -- namely collecting sales
tax.

Go download the forms.

Of course the other option is to invest in a slew of router blades and
make your own.

Pat.

BD wrote:
Occasionally a wholesaler may require a state reseller's tax
number

This is the first thing they asked me for.

if you want to be treated as a professional you have to
act like one. The FIRST thing you need to do is go get a tax ID number
because you need to start collecting sales tax.

I don't buy that. I think a few other things need to fall into place
first, like... hmmm... building a portfolio, determining if there's a
market, this kind of thing. If I decide I want to start a Business,
that's one thing. But I am not at the point where getting a tax number
is next on the to-do list. If it's the only way to get decent framing
stock, then great. But I'm almost sure it is not.

We'll see.

BD wrote:
Occasionally a wholesaler may require a state reseller's tax
number

This is the first thing they asked me for.

You should just be able to provide your SSN. For a Sole Proprietorship
it's perfectly acceptable to use your SSN as your Tax ID.

BD wrote:
if you want to be treated as a professional you have to
act like one. The FIRST thing you need to do is go get a tax ID number
because you need to start collecting sales tax.

I don't buy that. I think a few other things need to fall into place
first, like... hmmm... building a portfolio, determining if there's a
market, this kind of thing. If I decide I want to start a Business,
that's one thing. But I am not at the point where getting a tax number
is next on the to-do list. If it's the only way to get decent framing
stock, then great. But I'm almost sure it is not.

We'll see

As soon as you start charging for your work, you need a tax ID number
(at least in this state) because you have to collect sales tax unless
you are strictly selling wholesale.

Also, if you buy something from a wholesaler and don't pay sales tax
and then decide to use the stock for your portfolio, then you have to
use the tax ID to pay sales tax on the items.
..

(at least in this state) because you have to collect sales tax unless

I guess I should research the relevant laws in Canada.

BD wrote:
if you want to be treated as a professional you have to
act like one. The FIRST thing you need to do is go get a tax ID number
because you need to start collecting sales tax.

I don't buy that. I think a few other things need to fall into place
first, like... hmmm... building a portfolio, determining if there's a
market, this kind of thing. If I decide I want to start a Business,
that's one thing. But I am not at the point where getting a tax number
is next on the to-do list. If it's the only way to get decent framing
stock, then great. But I'm almost sure it is not.

We'll see.

no its not, but it is the only way to get decent framing stock at a
price that makes it worthwhile for you to sell your framed prints.
Otherwise the price difference is such that its almost not worth your
time and effort.