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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PING: Mike Marlow - a long update
Mike:
I just wanted to give you a quick update on how much use I have gotten out of your advice on spraying finishes. First, in the "get to know your gun" department, I have now sprayed about 4 gallons (yup, FOUR) of paint through my little Binks 115 knockoff. I have sprayed a lot of different items with it, but I am proudest of the way my doors are now coming out. I actually know enough now that I can diagnose what I am seeing on my piece of sheetmetal (my gun setup/test medium) that I use to set the pattern/flow and can now adjust and change the gun to what I need. I have been having a blast with the Japan drier, and while I haven't actually ruined a finish yet, I have made the gloss go to satin, which is a sign of too much drier. So now I know my limits on that. I am at about 1oz of Japan drier plus one oz of thinner per quart and it works great on 70-75 degree days. I will certainly be toning that down for our hot summer days. As for flow, pattern, viscosity, and pressure, I have the most well protected piece of plywood you can imagine in my backyard by my shop. I don't know how much different materials and mixtures it has on it, but they all dried up and it is now thoroughly plasticized. I have taken some of oil base materials I had left over on one of my jobs (the industrial stuff I am using starts catalyzing the moment it is opened to air, and it not good even in a sealed container after about 10 days) and tried all kinds of mixtures and settings.... all at 6 ozs. at a time. I have found that my 2hp compressor is the one to use to shoot finish, as the one that is just a little bit smaller is painful to use. Like when shooting latex on doors, I like long unbroken spraying to spray the entire door side without stopping. Even with the little gun, it strains it just a little. But the 2 hp is perfect. After the last exchange here, I decided to buy some urethane and set the gun up on my piece of plywood before getting on the doors for my client. I called them and moved the date to refinish, and got busy with the urethane. I used the Deftane Satin that I got from my local paint supplier and then went onto the Deft site to get the info on thinning. It couldn't have been easier. Still mixing in the gradient marked cheap sports bottles I have, I was able to measure out and thin exactly according to their specs. I was surprised when I started my practice runs as I had to turn the pressure all the way down to about 35 lbs since I was getting fog at 45. I was thinking it would take a little more air than that. It just wasn't needed. After I got the handspeed and gun position down, it worked great. I was glad I shot a quart up on the plywood because I was getting it too wet, and I had sags. I put the halogen lights on it where I could see the reflection when it was wet, and then adjust to about 30% coverage on the next pass (instead of the tried and true 50% for oils and spray can stuff) and it worked like a champ. The instructions said they were looking for about 3 mil wet finish (!!!) and that it would dry to 1.5 mil. To me, that seemed really thick for one application (especially vertical application), but in the end, it is their product. So I followed you cue and sprayed one coat, then another about twenty minutes later, just when I could see the material starting to change from looking really wet. Worked like a big dog! So out to the job. I stripped, sanded as needed, cleaned that nasty 15 panel door up and let it have it with the Defthane. I have to admit... I was a little surprised.... the doors turned out great. I mixed up a couple of different colors of gel stain for the door to match the interior trims on the house, and the match was good. And with the Defthane on it, the door turned out like a million bucks. And I was SO damn thankful I didn't have to brush that damn door. The door took about 8-9 hours to dry before hanging, but with the heavy coat on it, it looked totally sealed, and my client was thrilled. I hung it that night around 7 or so, and I was finished with the job. I can't make enough money finishing doors to just do that when I go out for repairs and installations. But I CAN do well for my door installations, etc., if I can install and finish the doors for people since I can get them coming and going. And it is easy enough to set up and spray a door and go finish more repairs in the house while it is drying, so that make finshing a good thing. I just reinstall whatever I finished/refinished before I walk out for the day. Since all the new construction around here has sprayed oil on the metal entry/garage/rear doors, people really want to see that on their new doors that they purchase from the lumberyard I am affliliated with since they see their new doors as new construction. And I don't care how good a brush man is, nothing looks as sleek and clean as a sprayed door. So I think there is a demand there, but I am still looking into that. And of course, I can just add this to my toolbox of things my company does when I am out on a job and someone says, "hey Robert, do you have anyone that can refinish my cabinet doors/garage door/bathroom door/bookcase?" Next on the gun trials: lacquer. I have an amigo that swears by the "Old Masters" brand, and I will try to coax some out of him. I can't see spraying lacquer on one or two doors, though. I use Deft lacquer for interior doors and just pad it on. I use a disposable pad, and pitch it when I am through. Too easy to do it that way, and Deft lacquer is so forgiving it is almost foolproof. BTW, here is the gun I finally settled on to be a companion to the little wannabe Binks: http://tinyurl.com/44fd I haven't fired it up yet, but I will soon. I was interested because of the low CFMs, especially since it is all metal and has a really smooth action. It really seems like a nice gun, and when I got it it was on sale for $11.95. I just thought you might be interested to see how things went since you were so generous with your time and suggestions. Both were a big help to me. And for me, I always wonder what happened later when I have taken the time and made some effort to help someone out. A follow up seems like a simple courtesy to me, and certainly a sign of appreciation for the help. This is mine. So anyway, how you doin'? Robert |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Mike Marlow - a long update
wrote in message oups.com... Mike: I just wanted to give you a quick update on how much use I have gotten out of your advice on spraying finishes. Thanks for the update Robert - it really is good to see follow ups on things that have been discussed. First, in the "get to know your gun" department, I have now sprayed about 4 gallons (yup, FOUR) of paint through my little Binks 115 knockoff. I have sprayed a lot of different items with it, but I am proudest of the way my doors are now coming out. I actually know enough now that I can diagnose what I am seeing on my piece of sheetmetal (my gun setup/test medium) that I use to set the pattern/flow and can now adjust and change the gun to what I need. I'm feeling like a new papa. If there is one single thing that I think a person really needs to know about spray painting, this is it. Every thing else becomes so much easier afterwards. Problems can be figured out, tweeked, etc. You can start to misuse your gun a bit too, to accomplish things in different ways - narrow the pattern way down in order to get into tight places where you really don't want to try to contort yourself to reach, etc. Fog areas in that might otherwise result in runs - like the aforementioned narrow pattern, and still end up with a wet edge so that you don't have orange peel in the fog areas, etc. I have been having a blast with the Japan drier, and while I haven't actually ruined a finish yet, I have made the gloss go to satin, which is a sign of too much drier. So now I know my limits on that. I am at about 1oz of Japan drier plus one oz of thinner per quart and it works great on 70-75 degree days. I will certainly be toning that down for our hot summer days. This is the never ending experiment. Retarders, relative humidity, temperature, the cycle of some female paint goddess somewhere in the ozone, and a couple of lesser definable factors can provide countless hours of entertainment. Sometimes ya do it all right and shazam(!), it don't flow right. But that's for another time. As for flow, pattern, viscosity, and pressure, I have the most well protected piece of plywood you can imagine in my backyard by my shop. Hey - I have one of those too. After the last exchange here, I decided to buy some urethane and set the gun up on my piece of plywood before getting on the doors for my client. I called them and moved the date to refinish, and got busy with the urethane. I used the Deftane Satin that I got from my local paint supplier and then went onto the Deft site to get the info on thinning. It couldn't have been easier. Still mixing in the gradient marked cheap sports bottles I have, I was able to measure out and thin exactly according to their specs. I was surprised when I started my practice runs as I had to turn the pressure all the way down to about 35 lbs since I was getting fog at 45. I was thinking it would take a little more air than that. I use mixing sticks that are calibrated in parts versus quantity, but your "cheap sports bottles" should be just fine. If you want to check into other things, stop by a real automotive paint supplier (not the autozone type places) and look at the couple of things they typically carry. Some are sticks like I use, some are graduated containers. But they're generally graduated in parts not volume, and are cleverly done to accomodate just about any ratio of materials. Easier to say than to explain. It does take the thinking out of it and that can be important since these things are pretty sensative to mix ratios. The instructions said they were looking for about 3 mil wet finish (!!!) and that it would dry to 1.5 mil. To me, that seemed really thick for one application (especially vertical application), but in the end, it is their product. So I followed you cue and sprayed one coat, then another about twenty minutes later, just when I could see the material starting to change from looking really wet. Worked like a big dog! Isn't it cool when it comes together. I still get a gas and a half watching final paint come together. It's like magic happening before your very eyes. Next on the gun trials: lacquer. I have an amigo that swears by the "Old Masters" brand, and I will try to coax some out of him. I can't see spraying lacquer on one or two doors, though. I use Deft lacquer for interior doors and just pad it on. I use a disposable pad, and pitch it when I am through. Too easy to do it that way, and Deft lacquer is so forgiving it is almost foolproof. I agree. I posted in another thread recently that to me a spray job has to be "big enough" (whatever that means...) to make it worth my time in prep and clean up - especially clean up. BTW, here is the gun I finally settled on to be a companion to the little wannabe Binks: http://tinyurl.com/44fd This link wouldn't work for me. How about posting the HF model number. Is it one of the guns we talked about way back when? I just thought you might be interested to see how things went since you were so generous with your time and suggestions. Both were a big help to me. And for me, I always wonder what happened later when I have taken the time and made some effort to help someone out. A follow up seems like a simple courtesy to me, and certainly a sign of appreciation for the help. This is mine. Thanks again for that. It really does feel like you helped someone out when they post a follow up like this. It's sorta like that old adage - "Build a man a fire and you'll keep him warm for a while. Light a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for his whole life". I've really gotten a lot of good information from this group and it feels good to be able to provide something of value in return. So anyway, how you doin'? Life is good. Started with a new band and it's a band that plays much more modern music than I'm accustomed to. Stretching me some. I am having a lot of fun with it though. Been out of work for a couple of months now so I've had some time to catch up on some small projects that have gone unfinished for a while around the house. Nothing significant enough to really talk about. Plus - I'm feeling a little guilty because some of these projects have not matured the required 12 years, so I feel like I'm letting down the male gender to some degree. I'm not a man without a conscience though - I'm dutifully putting off a touch up paint job on my daughter's Malibu in the name of waiting for "better weather". -- -Mike- |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Mike Marlow - a long update
wrote in message
I just thought you might be interested to see how things went since you were so generous with your time and suggestions. Both were a big help to me. And for me, I always wonder what happened later when I have taken the time and made some effort to help someone out. A follow up seems like a simple courtesy to me, and certainly a sign of appreciation for the help. This is mine. Kudos to you both ... I've saved most of Mike's posts on spraying, so ditto for me. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 12/13/05 |
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