Like many here, I've got a woodworking website with
some useful info. And like many of you, I get e-mailed
requests for more details or help with doing something.
I try to answer all the e-mailed questions, going so
far as to create special illustrations, take digital
photos, clean them up and add text to describe things
etc.. Perhaps one in ten people asking for help
will take the time to even let me know they got what I
went out of my way to create and e-mail to them in a
timely manner.

Had four of these this week .

Just venting a little.

charlie b

a big thank-you Charlie! I am one that does appreciate your knowledge
and wonderful tips that you take the time to post! Keep up the good
work. We all just get busy and sometimes we forget our manners. So I
thank-you!
Mike

"charlie b" wrote in message
...
Like many here, I've got a woodworking website with
some useful info. And like many of you, I get e-mailed
requests for more details or help with doing something.
I try to answer all the e-mailed questions, going so
far as to create special illustrations, take digital
photos, clean them up and add text to describe things
etc.. Perhaps one in ten people asking for help
will take the time to even let me know they got what I
went out of my way to create and e-mail to them in a
timely manner.

Had four of these this week .

Just venting a little.

charlie b


I hear you well Charlie.

It's got to a point I almost do not even want to write anymore. Instead of
sending long detailed answers as in the past, I make it short knowing I will
not get an acknowledgment anyway. I don't mind helping, I'm just surprised
at the lack of appreciation.

At least you get 1 out of 10 to respond.

Tom Plamann

As more of a consumer than a producer of said advice (though I haven't
yet contacted anyone directly for specific help), could I humbly ask
that those who post in here who do have personal WWing web sites post
their URLs so I and others could check out what's out there?

I often find that personal sites are easier to navigate and comprehend
than the larger sites that sometimes make assumptions as to either
skill or the equipment of the people reading them.

-nhurst

"charlie b" wrote in message
Like many here, I've got a woodworking website with
some useful info. And like many of you, I get e-mailed
requests for more details or help with doing something.
I try to answer all the e-mailed questions, going so
far as to create special illustrations, take digital
photos, clean them up and add text to describe things
etc.. Perhaps one in ten people asking for help
will take the time to even let me know they got what I
went out of my way to create and e-mail to them in a
timely manner.

Had four of these this week .

Just venting a little.

You're a better man than me, Charlie Brown ... I thought that was what the
wRec and apbw were good for, and we all know how many (un)grateful *******s
there are around here.

That said, I have perused your site more than a time or two and hereby thank
you for the realized intent/content.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05

Swingman wrote:
"charlie b" wrote in message

Like many here, I've got a woodworking website with
some useful info. And like many of you, I get e-mailed
requests for more details or help with doing something.
I try to answer all the e-mailed questions, going so
far as to create special illustrations, take digital
photos, clean them up and add text to describe things
etc.. Perhaps one in ten people asking for help
will take the time to even let me know they got what I
went out of my way to create and e-mail to them in a
timely manner.

Had four of these this week .

Just venting a little.


You're a better man than me, Charlie Brown ... I thought that was what the
wRec and apbw were good for, and we all know how many (un)grateful *******s
there are around here.

That said, I have perused your site more than a time or two and hereby thank
you for the realized intent/content.

Ditto... I spent quite a lot of time there (but never sent an email...).

er
--
email not valid

Swingman wrote:


"charlie b" wrote in message
Like many here, I've got a woodworking website with
some useful info. And like many of you, I get e-mailed
requests for more details or help with doing something.
I try to answer all the e-mailed questions, going so
far as to create special illustrations, take digital
photos, clean them up and add text to describe things
etc.. Perhaps one in ten people asking for help
will take the time to even let me know they got what I
went out of my way to create and e-mail to them in a
timely manner.

Had four of these this week .

Just venting a little.

I hear you. It's largely cultural and the impersonal nature of the
Internet.

Cultural in that we live in a bit of a gimme, help me, do for me
culture. We EXPECT that there are resources avaliable to us to make
our life easier. Why offer thanks to that which we are due?

And the impersonal nature of the internet causes us to forget that
there are real people on the other end of that box. It's not people...
it's just "the internet".

Mark Twain wrote that every human action, no matter how generous, is
ultimately self-serving. Very often we give... and hope to get
appreciation or satisfaction in return.

At any rate, have faith that your efforts are indeed appreciated...
even if the beneficiary doesn't take the time to expressly tell you
so.

Joe Barta

Joe Barta wrote:

Swingman wrote:


"charlie b" wrote in message
Like many here, I've got a woodworking website with
some useful info. And like many of you, I get e-mailed
requests for more details or help with doing something.
I try to answer all the e-mailed questions, going so
far as to create special illustrations, take digital
photos, clean them up and add text to describe things
etc.. Perhaps one in ten people asking for help
will take the time to even let me know they got what I
went out of my way to create and e-mail to them in a
timely manner.

Had four of these this week .

Just venting a little.

I hear you. It's largely cultural and the impersonal nature of the
Internet.

Cultural in that we live in a bit of a gimme, help me, do for me
culture. We EXPECT that there are resources avaliable to us to
make our life easier. Why offer thanks to that which we are due?

And the impersonal nature of the internet causes us to forget that
there are real people on the other end of that box. It's not
people... it's just "the internet".

Mark Twain wrote that every human action, no matter how generous,
is ultimately self-serving. Very often we give... and hope to get
appreciation or satisfaction in return.

At any rate, have faith that your efforts are indeed
appreciated... even if the beneficiary doesn't take the time to
expressly tell you so.

Joe Barta


Actually, there have been times I offered something on the Internet
and people have taken the time to thank me.... and *I* didn't take the
time to thank them for their appreciation. Surely I'm on the slow road
to hell.

Joe Barta

Charlie, your posts are always interesting and I appreciate them. Don't
believe I've made any email requests but sure hope I never not thank
someone.

TomNie

charlie b (in ) said:

| Like many here, I've got a woodworking website with
| some useful info. And like many of you, I get e-mailed
| requests for more details or help with doing something.
| I try to answer all the e-mailed questions, going so
| far as to create special illustrations, take digital
| photos, clean them up and add text to describe things
| etc.. Perhaps one in ten people asking for help
| will take the time to even let me know they got what I
| went out of my way to create and e-mail to them in a
| timely manner.
|
| Had four of these this week .
|
| Just venting a little.

Charlie...

One in ten is pretty good. My web site log recorded over 340,000 hits
last year and I got four "thank you" e-mails.

One of the pages hit fairly frequently has a request for feedback -
which produced three responses.

I don't think the problem is with you.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

"charlie b" wrote in message
...
Like many here, I've got a woodworking website with
some useful info. And like many of you, I get e-mailed
requests for more details or help with doing something.
I try to answer all the e-mailed questions, going so
far as to create special illustrations, take digital
photos, clean them up and add text to describe things
etc.. Perhaps one in ten people asking for help
will take the time to even let me know they got what I
went out of my way to create and e-mail to them in a
timely manner.

Had four of these this week .

Just venting a little.

charlie b

Charlie, We create websites for many reasons. Mostly to promote or product,
point of view, service or as a resource. I always said, "You knew the job
was dangeous when you took it!" Websites are that.

My personal website teamcasa.org promotes my house building for the poor
activities. However, one of the most active pages are the ones on latrine
building and the free plans. The plans have been downloaded several thousand
times and I have only been thanked 2 or 3 times. However, I did not put
them up to be paid, prasied or thanked. They are there to help others and
to inspire others to help the very poor.

Dave





Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

charlie b wrote:
Like many here, I've got a woodworking website with
some useful info. And like many of you, I get e-mailed
requests for more details or help with doing something.
I try to answer all the e-mailed questions, going so
far as to create special illustrations, take digital
photos, clean them up and add text to describe things
etc.. Perhaps one in ten people asking for help
will take the time to even let me know they got what I
went out of my way to create and e-mail to them in a
timely manner.

So why do it anymore?

If you're taking the time to go through all this, at least put it up on
your site for others to see, rather than just one guy.

Thu, Feb 9, 2006, 1:06am (EST-3) (charlie*b)
doth legitimently rant:
Like many here, I've got a woodworking website snip

Different generation I guess. I've never asked you for anything,
probably never will. But, if I ever were to, you can bet I'll let you
know I got it, and will thank you for it.



JOAT
Don't believe everything you think.

On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:52:53 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

One in ten is pretty good. My web site log recorded over 340,000 hits
last year and I got four "thank you" e-mails.

One of the pages hit fairly frequently has a request for feedback -
which produced three responses.

I don't think the problem is with you.

Would you prefer to wade through 340,000 thank you emails?


-Leuf

Leuf (in ) said:

| On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:52:53 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
| wrote:
|
|| One in ten is pretty good. My web site log recorded over 340,000
|| hits last year and I got four "thank you" e-mails.
||
|| One of the pages hit fairly frequently has a request for feedback -
|| which produced three responses.
||
|| I don't think the problem is with you.
|
| Would you prefer to wade through 340,000 thank you emails?

I suppose not; but I have wondered from time to time if perhaps only a
handful of people thought what they found was useful.

Actually, I'd rather have critical feedback than all the drug, sex,
counterfeit Rolex, etc. junk mail that I'm getting now. :-(

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Morris Dovey wrote:

Actually, I'd rather have critical feedback

Not sure if you do have such a thing on your site, but if you make a
request for feedback and ideas, and give people a means to easily do
so, you might get some replies.

If you believe that silence implies consent, all those emails you're
not getting may mean that folks are quite happy with what you offer.

Actually, the acid test is whether people will PAY you for your
offerings. If people will part with $$, then you have something ;-)

Joe Barta

Joe Barta (in ) said:

| Morris Dovey wrote:
|
|| Actually, I'd rather have critical feedback
|
| Not sure if you do have such a thing on your site, but if you make a
| request for feedback and ideas, and give people a means to easily do
| so, you might get some replies.
|
| If you believe that silence implies consent, all those emails you're
| not getting may mean that folks are quite happy with what you offer.
|
| Actually, the acid test is whether people will PAY you for your
| offerings. If people will part with $$, then you have something ;-)

Joe...

Every page has an e-mail link with a pre-cooked subject line so I can
see what people were looking at when (if) they decided to send a
comment or suggestion.

As to the parting with $$ part, some (not ever enough) actually do. My
project for today was to order the last of the materials to build a
3-1/2 axis CNC joinery machine that I'm hoping will improve the sales
picture.

Have patience, I'm slowly working my way toward the CNC drilling
machine. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

I wasn't expecting any acknowledgement of posts to
any threads here. I'm talking about personal e-mail.
requests for help which require a bit of time and effort
to provide. And I'm not even expecting thanks. I just
want to know if they got the info and did it answer their
question adequately.

I'm not trolling for 'thank you's or trying to increase
the hits to my website - don't have a counter and have
never checked the site statistics. I just want to know
if what I sent was ever received and, if so, did it give
them the info they were looking for (or - for which
they were looking. - have to keep the grammar police
happy).

charlie b

"charlie b" wrote in message
...
I wasn't expecting any acknowledgement of posts to
any threads here. I'm talking about personal e-mail.
requests for help which require a bit of time and effort
to provide. And I'm not even expecting thanks. I just
want to know if they got the info and did it answer their
question adequately.

I'm not trolling for 'thank you's or trying to increase
the hits to my website - don't have a counter and have
never checked the site statistics. I just want to know
if what I sent was ever received and, if so, did it give
them the info they were looking for (or - for which
they were looking. - have to keep the grammar police
happy).

charlie b

Charlie, I have been too busy to put up my own site or to view yours (I will
get to both someday) but I do have a thought for you. I get asked to do a
large part of my entire families maintenace issues. I was complaining about
fixing everybodys sink, roof etc. and someone said you don't get it do you?
I replied I guess not. They said: "Favors are not meant to be repaid, they
are to be passed along" I asked what does this mean? They said the people
you are helping cannot repay you cuz they don't have the skills you require
to be helped. But maybe for example they will run into someone who needs
their taxes prepared cheap or free (and they are tax professionals). You
don't directly benefit from this but..........as they are considering this
request, they remember the time you came late at night and installed a new
water heater for them. They think I should try to help this person. What
you have done is help increase the pool of kind-hearted souls out there. In
your case many people cuz you have a website. Just food for thought. :-)
BTW I enjoy not only yours but everybodys post.
Keep the kind-hearted pool strong!
Lyndell

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Leuf (in ) said:
I suppose not; but I have wondered from time to time if perhaps only a
handful of people thought what they found was useful.

Actually, I'd rather have critical feedback than all the drug, sex,
counterfeit Rolex, etc. junk mail that I'm getting now. :-(

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto



Well I don't have any drugs or sex available but I don't have any critical
feedback either.....although I thoroughly enjoy your posts and your
contributions here.....often you perk up a dreary day, your enthusiasm is
quite infectious....As mostly a lurker I appreciate You, Tom, Joe, Charlie
and many other regulars that make the wRec what it is......Woodworking web
sites are added appreciated bonus .....Thanks Rod

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 13:44:24 -0800, charlie b wrote:

I wasn't expecting any acknowledgement of posts to
any threads here. I'm talking about personal e-mail.
requests for help which require a bit of time and effort
to provide. And I'm not even expecting thanks. I just
want to know if they got the info and did it answer their
question adequately.

I'm not trolling for 'thank you's or trying to increase
the hits to my website - don't have a counter and have
never checked the site statistics. I just want to know
if what I sent was ever received and, if so, did it give
them the info they were looking for (or - for which
they were looking. - have to keep the grammar police
happy).

charlie b


Charlie... I like Derrell Feltmate's pages...
http://aroundthewoods.com/
On the bottom of each, there is an email link ( mailto: ) where he says
something like "If you make one please let me know how it turned out."

I don't know about others, but I've used his email link several times to let him
know that I tried his idea or to thank him for his help..

We all do web sites for different reasons, but it's always nice to know that
someone got something useful there..



Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:51:52 GMT, "Lyndell Thompson"
wrote:

Charlie, I have been too busy to put up my own site or to view yours (I will
get to both someday) but I do have a thought for you. I get asked to do a
large part of my entire families maintenace issues. I was complaining about
fixing everybodys sink, roof etc. and someone said you don't get it do you?
I replied I guess not. They said: "Favors are not meant to be repaid, they
are to be passed along" I asked what does this mean? They said the people
you are helping cannot repay you cuz they don't have the skills you require
to be helped. But maybe for example they will run into someone who needs
their taxes prepared cheap or free (and they are tax professionals). You
don't directly benefit from this but..........as they are considering this
request, they remember the time you came late at night and installed a new
water heater for them. They think I should try to help this person. What
you have done is help increase the pool of kind-hearted souls out there. In
your case many people cuz you have a website. Just food for thought. :-)
BTW I enjoy not only yours but everybodys post.
Keep the kind-hearted pool strong!
Lyndell

Lyndell... IMHO, you've just described Karma..
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

Rod & Betty Jo (in ) said:

| "Morris Dovey" wrote in message
| ...
|| Leuf (in ) said:
|| I suppose not; but I have wondered from time to time if perhaps
|| only a handful of people thought what they found was useful.
||
|| Actually, I'd rather have critical feedback than all the drug, sex,
|| counterfeit Rolex, etc. junk mail that I'm getting now. :-(
|
| Well I don't have any drugs or sex available but I don't have any
| critical feedback either.....although I thoroughly enjoy your posts
| and your contributions here.....often you perk up a dreary day,
| your enthusiasm is quite infectious....As mostly a lurker I
| appreciate You, Tom, Joe, Charlie and many other regulars that make
| the wRec what it is......Woodworking web sites are added
| appreciated bonus .....Thanks Rod

As CharlieB noted, it works both ways. I'm one of those with probably
a lot more enthusiasm than skill; so I try to put stuff on the web
site that might make woodworking easier (and consequently more
enjoyable) for others. I leave it to CharlieB and the others to impart
the skills, advanced techniques, and inspiration /they/ have to offer.

My server provides a daily report of year-to-date and prior-day
statistics that shows more visitors than I'd originally expected to
see...

iedu.com Summary [cut and pasted from the report heading]
Unique Visitors 4236 Homepage Hits Average per day 12
Homepage Hits 483 Webpage Views Average per day 1373
Total Web Site Hits 53558 Unique Visitors Average per day 108
Bandwidth Used 1.28 GB Total Domains 890
Most Popular Day Jan-28 Total Countries 53

....but it's really difficult to know whether anyone is finding what
they're looking for without feedback. The log provides
download-by-download detail; but nothing about degree of satisfaction
unless I try to make inferences from the interval between successive
downloads by the same visitor - and that's still pretty weak.

So -- Thanks for your feedback!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

charlie b wrote:
I wasn't expecting any acknowledgement of posts to
any threads here. I'm talking about personal e-mail.
requests for help which require a bit of time and effort
to provide. And I'm not even expecting thanks. I just
want to know if they got the info and did it answer their
question adequately.

I'm not trolling for 'thank you's or trying to increase
the hits to my website - don't have a counter and have
never checked the site statistics. I just want to know
if what I sent was ever received and, if so, did it give
them the info they were looking for (or - for which
they were looking. - have to keep the grammar police
happy).

charlie b

FWIW, I didn't post thinking you were.

But your and other's web sites are largely what keep me interested and
even participating in the group discussions... so's I can see more of
the same.

I have a bunch of pics I'd like to arrange into some sort of storyline
soon, myself. And if they encourage somebody (if that guy can do it...
hey!) then all the better.

er
--
email not valid

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Joe Barta (in ) said:

| Morris Dovey wrote:
|
|| Actually, I'd rather have critical feedback
|
| Not sure if you do have such a thing on your site, but if you make a
| request for feedback and ideas, and give people a means to easily do
| so, you might get some replies.
|
| If you believe that silence implies consent, all those emails you're
| not getting may mean that folks are quite happy with what you offer.
|
| Actually, the acid test is whether people will PAY you for your
| offerings. If people will part with $$, then you have something ;-)

Joe...

Every page has an e-mail link with a pre-cooked subject line so I can
see what people were looking at when (if) they decided to send a
comment or suggestion.


Morris, that is why you are getting all of the spam. Get those email
addresses off the site and replace them with forms that send the email to
you via script.

Lyndell Thompson wrote:

Charlie, I have been too busy to put up my own site or to view yours (I will
get to both someday) but I do have a thought for you. I get asked to do a
large part of my entire families maintenace issues. I was complaining about
fixing everybodys sink, roof etc. and someone said you don't get it do you?
I replied I guess not. They said: "Favors are not meant to be repaid, they
are to be passed along" I asked what does this mean? They said the people
you are helping cannot repay you cuz they don't have the skills you require
to be helped. But maybe for example they will run into someone who needs
their taxes prepared cheap or free (and they are tax professionals). You
don't directly benefit from this but..........as they are considering this
request, they remember the time you came late at night and installed a new
water heater for them. They think I should try to help this person. What
you have done is help increase the pool of kind-hearted souls out there. In
your case many people cuz you have a website. Just food for thought. :-)
BTW I enjoy not only yours but everybodys post.
Keep the kind-hearted pool strong!
Lyndell


I was taught that if someone does you a kindness you are obligated to
do a kindness to at least two others. That way it will spread out.

When I needed a hand, a not unusual situation for me it seems, a helping
hand, or a bunch of hands, were there. And passing it along, not
necessarily
in kind - a friendly smile, a word of encouragement, striking up a
conver-
sation with an elderly lady getting her mail in your neighborhood,
thanking
the garbage man on a cold winter morning, asking about the grocery
clerk's
kid's soccer game or the gas station kid's "new" car - these are ways to
pass it on. And if you get the chance to help raise a 4x30 by 40 foot
glue
lam beam for his "ultimate" garage - make sure the fork lift has arrived
BEFORE you go over to help.

There's something called entropy - some energy to do work will always
be lost, unusable. Pass It On is sort of the anti-entropy of the
universe.

charlie b

I've built some web sites myself, and most people don't understand how
much work it takes to put even the dopiest page online. It has to be
one of the most tedious tasks there is.

To all here who made websites showing off their shops and works, this
newbie says thanks - a lot. I regularly scour my bookmarks of
woodworking sites to see if anything has been updated.

Especially Tom's! As one who REALLY appreciates your site (from the
endless examples of fine craftsmanship, to the shop-in-progress pics,
the work it took to build the site, and of course the "just git out
there and do it" attitude), you definitely have MY gratitude and
admiration.

As well as that from of my cow-orkers (architects and designers) who
design high end homes, all of whom fell off their chairs when I sent
them the link.

So, PLEASE keep your sites up and running. There are a lot of people
who bookmark your sites and keep checking in from time to time for new
content. Even if it's YABR (yet another bandsaw review). I may not
express it personally, but that's because I don't wish to interrupt
your privacy. But understand there are those out there who really
appreciate the efforts.

- Matt

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 12:40:18 GMT, "Tom Plamann"
wrote:

I hear you well Charlie.

It's got to a point I almost do not even want to write anymore. Instead of
sending long detailed answers as in the past, I make it short knowing I will
not get an acknowledgment anyway. I don't mind helping, I'm just surprised
at the lack of appreciation.

At least you get 1 out of 10 to respond.

Tom Plamann