quixote (in )
said:

| I would use polyurethane, but the stuff foams up inside the staves,
| and it's a pain to clean up on the inside. (Though I saw some
| references of glue scrapers... How would something like that work?)

Polyurethane cleans up easily with acetone. Let the mug sit long
enough for the acetone to completely evaporate before applying BLO.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

I've been doing a bit of stavework and making drinking mugs, and
haven't been able to find any consistent answers about glues on the
web.

What I want to do is have a mug that is finished only with raw linseed
oil, to make seem more of a historical-looking piece (e.g. no modern
polyurethane or epoxy finish).

Because of this, I need to make sure my glue can stand up to some
amount of liquid. In looking through the forum, there was some recent
talk about TB III not being as waterproof at it seems it should (I got
fooled by the label).

I would use polyurethane, but the stuff foams up inside the staves, and
it's a pain to clean up on the inside. (Though I saw some references
of glue scrapers... How would something like that work?)

The TB III I used on the first ones seems to be holding up ok, but I'm
concerned about long-term exposure to water.

Does anyone have any light to shed on this?

Here's a pic of what I am making:
http://toysmakeuspowerful.com/mug-walnut-maple.jpg

BLO? Somebody might be using these things.

Morris Dovey wrote:

quixote (in )
said:

| I would use polyurethane, but the stuff foams up inside the staves,
| and it's a pain to clean up on the inside. (Though I saw some
| references of glue scrapers... How would something like that work?)

Polyurethane cleans up easily with acetone. Let the mug sit long
enough for the acetone to completely evaporate before applying BLO.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Exactly... I'm using RLO

"quixote" writes:

I would use polyurethane, but the stuff foams up inside the staves, and
it's a pain to clean up on the inside.

Tape the inside staves with blue masking tape. The glue will foam
up attached to the tape. Remove the tape.

scott

In article .com,
"quixote" wrote:

I've been doing a bit of stavework and making drinking mugs, and
haven't been able to find any consistent answers about glues on the
web.

What I want to do is have a mug that is finished only with raw linseed
oil, to make seem more of a historical-looking piece (e.g. no modern
polyurethane or epoxy finish).

.....

Does anyone have any light to shed on this?

Here's a pic of what I am making:
http://toysmakeuspowerful.com/mug-walnut-maple.jpg


That looks like what some people I know in Oregon make, except their
staves tapper.

I do understand the desire not to use a modern finish, but allow me to
explain why I do... I never know what people are going to drink and I
don't know the reaction that liquid would have with linseed oil and the
componds in the wood. Second, even walnut and maple wood have some
compounds in them that some people might react to. The people in Oregon
also was a number of "exotics", which increase the chances that people
could react to the wood. The result is, an interior finish that is
stable and safe.

Also, in my experience, raw linseed oil never seems to completely
harden.

Of course, an authentic mug would not be glued at all. The mug would
be coopered, much like a barrel. There really isn't a good glue for
this, until the modern glues were invented.

TTFN
Ralph

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

On 30 Jan 2006 09:59:08 -0800, "quixote"
wrote:

I've been doing a bit of stavework and making drinking mugs, and
haven't been able to find any consistent answers about glues on the
web.

What I want to do is have a mug that is finished only with raw linseed
oil, to make seem more of a historical-looking piece (e.g. no modern
polyurethane or epoxy finish).

Because of this, I need to make sure my glue can stand up to some
amount of liquid. In looking through the forum, there was some recent
talk about TB III not being as waterproof at it seems it should (I got
fooled by the label).

I would use polyurethane, but the stuff foams up inside the staves, and
it's a pain to clean up on the inside. (Though I saw some references
of glue scrapers... How would something like that work?)

The TB III I used on the first ones seems to be holding up ok, but I'm
concerned about long-term exposure to water.

Does anyone have any light to shed on this?

Here's a pic of what I am making:
http://toysmakeuspowerful.com/mug-walnut-maple.jpg

I am no expert. However, I have three stave-built things in the
house. Two ;tankaard-style mugs and a small bucket. I watched one of
the mugs being assembled. No glue. So far as I know, neither of the
other two uses glue either and it was certainly not the norm for
barrels. FWIW, the tankards I have were made in Japan. I'll post a
picture if you like.

areyoukidding wrote:
I am no expert. However, I have three stave-built things in the
house. Two ;tankaard-style mugs and a small bucket. I watched one of
the mugs being assembled. No glue. So far as I know, neither of the
other two uses glue either and it was certainly not the norm for
barrels. FWIW, the tankards I have were made in Japan. I'll post a
picture if you like.

Certainly if they were completely period, there wouldn't be glue used
and they would be coopered. I'd certainly be interested in photos of
the tankards

quixote wrote:
Exactly... I'm using RLO

So raw is safe and boiled is poisonous?

Raw linseed oil is just that. Oil extracted from the Flax seed.

BLO is not "boiled". While boiling some oils does change their
characteristics, BLO is RLO with several chemicals added to make it
cure faster. The additives are almost all certainly poisonous. I have
read some sources which claim that the poisonous heavy metals all get
contained inside the finish when the linseed oil cures, but I wouldn't
trust it after looking at all the nasties that get added.

You can buy food grade linseed oil (You can even buy it at health food
stores as flax seed oil). It takes a few weeks to cure, but possible
health concerns should be well worth it.

Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
...

I do understand the desire not to use a modern finish, but allow me to
explain why I do... I never know what people are going to drink and I
don't know the reaction that liquid would have with linseed oil and the
componds in the wood. Second, even walnut and maple wood have some
compounds in them that some people might react to. The people in Oregon
also was a number of "exotics", which increase the chances that people
could react to the wood. The result is, an interior finish that is
stable and safe.


Especially walnut. It is not uncommon for woodworkers to develop
an allergy to walnut.

Epoxy would seeem to be the glue of choice for the staves. Cured
Epoxies should be pretty resistant to any chemicals found in a
beverage.

--

FF

quixote wrote:
: Raw linseed oil is just that. Oil extracted from the Flax seed.

: BLO is not "boiled". While boiling some oils does change their
: characteristics, BLO is RLO with several chemicals added to make it
: cure faster. The additives are almost all certainly poisonous. I have
: read some sources which claim that the poisonous heavy metals all get
: contained inside the finish when the linseed oil cures, but I wouldn't
: trust it after looking at all the nasties that get added.

: You can buy food grade linseed oil (You can even buy it at health food
: stores as flax seed oil). It takes a few weeks to cure, but possible
: health concerns should be well worth it.

Tried & True makes a line of LO finishes that are made according
to a 19th century recipe, by heating -- no driers added, but it's
claimed it dries as fast as the stuff with driers.


Personally, for a drinking vessel, I'd use epoxy.

Or line it with metal.

In article .com,
wrote:

Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
...

I do understand the desire not to use a modern finish, but allow me to
explain why I do... I never know what people are going to drink and I
don't know the reaction that liquid would have with linseed oil and the
componds in the wood. Second, even walnut and maple wood have some
compounds in them that some people might react to. The people in Oregon
also was a number of "exotics", which increase the chances that people
could react to the wood. The result is, an interior finish that is
stable and safe.


Especially walnut. It is not uncommon for woodworkers to develop
an allergy to walnut.

Like my wife

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

In article ,
(J T) wrote:

Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 2:39am (EST+5)
(Andrew*Barss)
snip Or line it with metal.

How about beeswax? Wooden Civil War canteens used that.

Great for cold, not so good for coffee, etc

Probably
others too. Or, I suppose you could line it with Titebond II, or a
similar food-safe glue. I'd prefer to stay from metal.

Ever tried to drink a hot drink from a metal cup.....

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 7:44am (EST-3)
(Ralph*E*Lindberg) doth wonder:
Ever tried to drink a hot drink from a metal cup.....

Not only tried, have done it on many occassions. I learned to
drink from a cup when I was 2 or 3.



JOAT
IThere is no vaccine against stupidity!

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 02:39:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
wrote:

Personally, for a drinking vessel, I'd use epoxy.

Or line it with metal.

Lead?

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Tim Douglass (in ) said:

| On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 02:39:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
| wrote:
||
|| Personally, for a drinking vessel, I'd use epoxy.
||
|| Or line it with metal.
|
| Lead?

Sodium!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Tim Douglass wrote:
: On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 02:39:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
: wrote:
:
:Personally, for a drinking vessel, I'd use epoxy.
:
:Or line it with metal.

: Lead?

Nope, I was thinking steel.


-- Andy Barss

Andrew Barss wrote:
Tim Douglass wrote:
: On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 02:39:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
: wrote:
:
:Personally, for a drinking vessel, I'd use epoxy.
:
:Or line it with metal.

: Lead?

Nope, I was thinking steel.


302 stainless steel one presumes. Lead-free pewter might be easier.
You can buy it in sheets that could (I think) be cold rolled over a
form
and the seams soldered with lead-free solder.

Be aware that most (maybe all) epoxies have a 'glass transition
temerature'
around 150 F. They soften at that temperature and do not regain their
properties when cooled.

--

FF