I am converting my garage to a woodworking workshop...

I would like some advice/thoughts on replacing the
existing metal up'n'over doors with some normally
hinged hung wooden doors.

Here are some pics of what it looks like today and
what it might look like in the future!!

http://www.gillandroy.com/diy/garagedoors

My main reason for replacing these doors is
sound/thermal insulation...

I'll spell out my plan and perhaps you can pick it to pieces...

Firstly build a substantial frame... not sure what wood yet
but would be substantial thickness - perhaps 1 1/2 ins thick.
I intend to face this frame with 3/4in plywood - both sides.
Inside this sandwich will be sound/thermal insulation.

Now this is where I'm struggling...

The outside of each door, will be faced with the herringbone
pattern stuff. Probably some sort of T&G or shiplac.

I have a number of questions in my mind...

How do I finish off the edges of the face T&G stuff ?
Could I take it right up to the edge of the door? Or what?

What finish should I be applying? Should I be putting
something on the plywood prior to the external facing?
I'm concerned about the elements getting in the cracks
and causing problems...

Any other advice or thoughts...?

Any thought re seals? Hinges?

Many thanks,
Roy (UK)

"RzB" wrote in message
...
I am converting my garage to a woodworking workshop...

I would like some advice/thoughts on replacing the
existing metal up'n'over doors with some normally
hinged hung wooden doors.

Here are some pics of what it looks like today and
what it might look like in the future!!

http://www.gillandroy.com/diy/garagedoors

My main reason for replacing these doors is
sound/thermal insulation...


If there is a Wayne Dalton garage door dealer over there, ;~), they have
insulated steel doors that seal up nicely with no drafts.

"Leon" wrote in message
news

---- clip


If there is a Wayne Dalton garage door dealer over there, ;~), they have
insulated steel doors that seal up nicely with no drafts.

Leon,
No no, you misunderstand - I actually WANT
to make the doors myself :-)

It's my masochistic leanings coming out :-)

Roy

"RzB" wrote in message
...

Leon,
No no, you misunderstand - I actually WANT
to make the doors myself :-)

IC. That will be a pretty heavy job. Good luck with that and don't get
hurt.




It's my masochistic leanings coming out :-)

Roy

Make sure you can get the hardware that will hold the weight of your
project. The newer hardware is made for lightweight installations.
Even the insulated doors of today are quite light compare to the old
wooden doors of 20 years ago. You should be able to find the hardware
you are looking for at the overhead door companies (and even sometimes
the big box stores). I know they have parts and pieces for assembly
and repairs of most overhead doors.

You should get some help on the assist spring to help raise the door.
With out an assist spring, you will probably have too much dead weight
for an opener, and certainly more than you would want you or a SO to
deal with on a daily basis. This is not something I would screw with,
and the installers I have used in the past have all told me the same
thing; those bad boys are dangerous. I have hears some pretty ugly
stories about springs that have slipped, and springs that have been set
up wrong that have snipped off a finger or laid open someone's head.

I am sure that once you have set a few of them up it is pretty easy,
but until that time and with not professional training...

Good luck.

Robert

You may have already seen this, but I got some good ideas from it:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/gar-dr-1.htm

Regards,
H

On 21 Jan 2006 19:02:47 -0800, "hylourgos" wrote:

You may have already seen this, but I got some good ideas from it:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/gar-dr-1.htm

Argh.. T&G'd all that mahogany and then didn't use it! That's
painful.


-Leuf

wrote in message
oups.com...
Make sure you can get the hardware that will hold the weight of your
project. The newer hardware is made for lightweight installations.

-clip

I am sure that once you have set a few of them up it is pretty easy,
but until that time and with not professional training...

Good luck.

Robert


Robert,

Many thanks for your response. I think
you got the wrong end of the stick...

The existing doors are Up'N'Overs and
I'm intending to replace them with
side hung doors...

Thanks for the warning - I will most
certainly be very careful when removing
the Up'N'Overs. The springs are indeed lethal...

Roy

"hylourgos" wrote in message
oups.com...
You may have already seen this, but I got some good ideas from it:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/gar-dr-1.htm

Regards,
H


H,

Many thanks - that looks interesting.

Roy

"RzB" wrote in message
...
wrote in message

Thanks for the warning - I will most
certainly be very careful when removing
the Up'N'Overs. The springs are indeed lethal...


Actually - they aren't. They're unloaded when the door is raised.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow"

"RzB" wrote in message

the Up'N'Overs. The springs are indeed lethal...


Actually - they aren't. They're unloaded when the door is raised.

--

-Mike-


Mike,

Ahh - So the way to remove them is when
they are in the raised position. I must admit I
haven't looked at them in detail yes...
I had read some horror stories of people
getting hurt, so will make sure of what
I'm doing when the time comes...

Many thanks,
Roy

RzB wrote:
"Mike Marlow"

"RzB" wrote in message


the Up'N'Overs. The springs are indeed lethal...


Actually - they aren't. They're unloaded when the door is raised.

--

-Mike-



Mike,

Ahh - So the way to remove them is when
they are in the raised position. I must admit I
haven't looked at them in detail yes...
I had read some horror stories of people
getting hurt, so will make sure of what
I'm doing when the time comes...

Depends. From the look of your existing door, it appears to be a
one-piece that tilts inward and raise up on the track, assisted by a
spring on either side and a pully/cable system. Once fully open the
spring should be totally relaxed and the only stress on the cable at
that point will be the weight of the spring, the door having reached a
point where it will balance itself and remain open. That allows you to
remove the spring safely but... How do you now remove that damned heavy
door?g

OTH, if your door is assisted in opening by cables affixed to a large
coiled spring that is mounted on the garage door header, you do have a
very dangerous (potentially) situation when you disassemble the door.
It's done with the door closed and you must follow the instructions to
relieve ALL tension in the spring then remove the cables and disassemble
the door and tracks in the closed position.

Again, it looks like in your situation your main problem is going to be
figuring out just how to get the door down once you remove the springs.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:25:40 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"RzB" wrote in message
...
I am converting my garage to a woodworking workshop...

I would like some advice/thoughts on replacing the
existing metal up'n'over doors with some normally
hinged hung wooden doors.

Here are some pics of what it looks like today and
what it might look like in the future!!

http://www.gillandroy.com/diy/garagedoors

My main reason for replacing these doors is
sound/thermal insulation...
================================================== ==

Most of us who read this newsgroup sure have no problem with you
wnating to make your own doors... and btw the dark set of doors I like
much more then the light set of doors....

I personally could care less about sound insulation..but thermal
insulation I sure would appreciate..

in my one 3 bay garage I have metal roll up doors that are like those
found on loading docks and work like a window blind...roll up and do
not take up any space at all in the interior... I have 2 lifts in that
garage to work on my "toys"...

I was gong to recommend them BUT they do absolutely nothing to
satisfy your needs... except the metal does get pretty warm to the
touch when the sun is shinningf directly on the,,, helps in the winter
to keep the garage a little warmer...in the summer I just open them
...

Lots of luck...

Bob G.

Unquestionably Confused writes:


[...]

Depends. From the look of your existing door, it appears to be a
one-piece that tilts inward and raise up on the track, assisted by a
spring on either side and a pully/cable system. Once fully open the
spring should be totally relaxed and the only stress on the cable at
that point will be the weight of the spring, the door having reached a
point where it will balance itself and remain open. That allows you
to remove the spring safely but... How do you now remove that damned
heavy door?g

If it's the spring option: Just remove the springs and then let the
door crash down into the losed position, taking care not to get hit.
Disassemble, let fall outside while taking care not to get hit.
Summon neigbours, carry door away or take angle grinder and make small
dorr parts.

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:53:44 -0000, "RzB" wrote:

suggestion that has nothing to do with metal or wood but I had to bring up...

If you don't park a car in the garage, consider a temporary insulated wall with
oversized swinging door, that fits the opening..

Or, think about the old type of slider that goes sideways in 2 or 3 pieces..

Suggestions based on my last 3 shops, all garages, and the fact that I'd rather
not be opening a garage door every time I want to go in & out of the shop...
The best of the last 3 was the one that had the sliding doors... (not sure how
that would work with what looks like a 1 car garage, though)
I found it very handy to just open it enough to walk in or out and leave it open
for light & ventilation..

I am converting my garage to a woodworking workshop...

I would like some advice/thoughts on replacing the
existing metal up'n'over doors with some normally
hinged hung wooden doors.

Here are some pics of what it looks like today and
what it might look like in the future!!

http://www.gillandroy.com/diy/garagedoors

My main reason for replacing these doors is
sound/thermal insulation...

I'll spell out my plan and perhaps you can pick it to pieces...

Firstly build a substantial frame... not sure what wood yet
but would be substantial thickness - perhaps 1 1/2 ins thick.
I intend to face this frame with 3/4in plywood - both sides.
Inside this sandwich will be sound/thermal insulation.

Now this is where I'm struggling...

The outside of each door, will be faced with the herringbone
pattern stuff. Probably some sort of T&G or shiplac.

I have a number of questions in my mind...

How do I finish off the edges of the face T&G stuff ?
Could I take it right up to the edge of the door? Or what?

What finish should I be applying? Should I be putting
something on the plywood prior to the external facing?
I'm concerned about the elements getting in the cracks
and causing problems...

Any other advice or thoughts...?

Any thought re seals? Hinges?

Many thanks,
Roy (UK)










mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 14:43:28 -0000, "RzB" wrote:


"Mike Marlow"

"RzB" wrote in message

the Up'N'Overs. The springs are indeed lethal...


Actually - they aren't. They're unloaded when the door is raised.

--

-Mike-


Mike,

Ahh - So the way to remove them is when
they are in the raised position. I must admit I
haven't looked at them in detail yes...
I had read some horror stories of people
getting hurt, so will make sure of what
I'm doing when the time comes...

Many thanks,
Roy

yep.. we changes the springs on mine last summer... easy when you have help..
*g*

We had a neighbor sort of hang on the top lip of the door to hold it at max.
open, then 2 of us stretched the spring a bit and hooked it on the door
fixture...
NO WAY could we have moved them at all with the door closed..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis writes:

[...]


Suggestions based on my last 3 shops, all garages, and the fact that
I'd rather not be opening a garage door every time I want to go in &
out of the shop... The best of the last 3 was the one that had the
sliding doors... (not sure how that would work with what looks like a
1 car garage, though) I found it very handy to just open it enough to
walk in or out and leave it open for light & ventilation..

One can also put a normal sized door in one of the big wings of the
large door, and only open the small one if tha large opening is not
needed.
There exist even insulated transparent doors of the roll up type wich
have a small size door embedded, but I guess those come expensive.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:53:44 -0000, "RzB"
scribbled:

I am converting my garage to a woodworking workshop...

I would like some advice/thoughts on replacing the
existing metal up'n'over doors with some normally
hinged hung wooden doors.

Here are some pics of what it looks like today and
what it might look like in the future!!

http://www.gillandroy.com/diy/garagedoors

My main reason for replacing these doors is
sound/thermal insulation...

Liar. :-)

I'll spell out my plan and perhaps you can pick it to pieces...

Firstly build a substantial frame... not sure what wood yet
but would be substantial thickness - perhaps 1 1/2 ins thick.
I intend to face this frame with 3/4in plywood - both sides.
Inside this sandwich will be sound/thermal insulation.

I think that's overkill. When I made my garage doors (vertical
opening like a normal door), I used 1" by X 1-1/2" western red cedar
for the outside frame, 1/8" (3mm plywood) and 1-1/2" styrofoam panels
(extruded polystyrene), all glued together using Weldbond (a weather
resistant white PVA glue). But you need a flat surface and means of
applying pressure.

Now this is where I'm struggling...

The outside of each door, will be faced with the herringbone
pattern stuff. Probably some sort of T&G or shiplac.

Mine look like regular frame and panel. I simply glued the rails and
stiles to the plywood. Fifteen years later, they are still there.

I have a number of questions in my mind...

How do I finish off the edges of the face T&G stuff ?
Could I take it right up to the edge of the door? Or what?

Yes, then you could nail them (using galvanized or stainless nails) to
the frame under the plywood. Putting a rail and style frame around it
(as in the picture) could be more problematic. Don't forget the T&G
will expand and contract with changes in humidity.

What finish should I be applying? Should I be putting
something on the plywood prior to the external facing?
I'm concerned about the elements getting in the cracks
and causing problems...

Make sure the tongues are up and no frame around it. If you use a
frame around the diagonal siding, you might have a problem.

Any other advice or thoughts...?

Any thought re seals? Hinges?

Big strong stainless steel ball-bearing hinges, long screws.

On the centre, I screwed a 3.5" wide batten on the inside on one door
that overlaps the other door to seal the centre opening. on the edges
of the door.

I used the weatherstripping that fits in a slot in the jamb. I don't
know if you can get it in the UK, See the following web site:

http://www.draftseal.com/pre-hung%20...therstrip.html

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...ct_Woodworking

"mac davis" wrote in message


yep.. we changes the springs on mine last summer... easy when you have
help..
*g*

We had a neighbor sort of hang on the top lip of the door to hold it at
max.
open, then 2 of us stretched the spring a bit and hooked it on the door
fixture...
NO WAY could we have moved them at all with the door closed..


mac

Many thanks for the responses - I have taken some photos
of the inside of the doors and put them up to...

http://www.gillandroy.com/diy/garagedoors

These photos were taken from the rear entrance door.
I can't get any closer to inspect them at the moment as
you can see I've just painted the floor!!! I'l take a closer
look tomorrow - if its dry!

Thanks,
Roy

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:53:44 -0000, "RzB"
scribbled:

I am converting my garage to a woodworking workshop...
--- clip
My main reason for replacing these doors is
sound/thermal insulation...

Liar. :-)
===============
No, no. T'is true... Sound is MOST important. You can see
from the photos that the neighbors are quite close to the left.
I am spending a lot of time (and cash) to ensure I do not
cause any problems re sound...
--------------------------

I'll spell out my plan and perhaps you can pick it to pieces...

Firstly build a substantial frame... not sure what wood yet
but would be substantial thickness - perhaps 1 1/2 ins thick.
I intend to face this frame with 3/4in plywood - both sides.
Inside this sandwich will be sound/thermal insulation.

I think that's overkill. When I made my garage doors (vertical
opening like a normal door), I used 1" by X 1-1/2" western red cedar
for the outside frame, 1/8" (3mm plywood) and 1-1/2" styrofoam panels
(extruded polystyrene), all glued together using Weldbond (a weather
resistant white PVA glue). But you need a flat surface and means of
applying pressure.

===============
Yes - I think I need a heavier door for the sounds insulation...
--------------------------
Now this is where I'm struggling...

The outside of each door, will be faced with the herringbone
pattern stuff. Probably some sort of T&G or shiplac.

Mine look like regular frame and panel. I simply glued the rails and
stiles to the plywood. Fifteen years later, they are still there.

I have a number of questions in my mind...

How do I finish off the edges of the face T&G stuff ?
Could I take it right up to the edge of the door? Or what?

Yes, then you could nail them (using galvanized or stainless nails) to
the frame under the plywood. Putting a rail and style frame around it
(as in the picture) could be more problematic. Don't forget the T&G
will expand and contract with changes in humidity.

===============
Yes, - very good point...
--------------------------
What finish should I be applying? Should I be putting
something on the plywood prior to the external facing?
I'm concerned about the elements getting in the cracks
and causing problems...

Make sure the tongues are up and no frame around it. If you use a
frame around the diagonal siding, you might have a problem.

Any other advice or thoughts...?

Any thought re seals? Hinges?

Big strong stainless steel ball-bearing hinges, long screws.

===============
Yes - the earlier post from H pointed me to the URL...

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/gar-dr-1.htm

and the chap there (I think his name is John Lucas) used
ball-bearing hinges. I didn't know such things existed...
-------------------------
On the centre, I screwed a 3.5" wide batten on the inside on one door
that overlaps the other door to seal the centre opening. on the edges
of the door.

I used the weatherstripping that fits in a slot in the jamb. I don't
know if you can get it in the UK, See the following web site:

http://www.draftseal.com/pre-hung%20...therstrip.html

===============
Yes - that's a good idea - I don't know if Draftseal is
available in the UK but I'm sure there are similar things.

Many thanks for your help,
Roy
--------------------------

"RzB" writes:


[...]

Yes - I think I need a heavier door for the sounds insulation...

[...]

and the chap there (I think his name is John Lucas) used
ball-bearing hinges. I didn't know such things existed...

If the space in front of your heavy door is sufficiently even and you
don't want to trust the hinges to carry all the weight of the door you
could also put some small wheels on the doors so that they ride on the
ground, this of course needs hinges with plenty of axial play.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message

-----clip

One can also put a normal sized door in one of the big wings of the
large door, and only open the small one if tha large opening is not
needed.
There exist even insulated transparent doors of the roll up type wich
have a small size door embedded, but I guess those come expensive.
--
Juergen and Mack,

Many thanks for your thought.

No - the garage will not be used for cars...
Lets get our priorities right :-)

Also There is another entrance to the back
of the garage that I use most of the time.
These front doors will be used only
occasionally to move machines and lumber
in and finely crafted items of furniture etc out :-)

I have considered other ideas, as you mentioned,
but I think I'm going to go for the heavy door route.
Mainly because sound insulation is very important.

Many thanks,
Roy

If the space in front of your heavy door is sufficiently even and you
don't want to trust the hinges to carry all the weight of the door you
could also put some small wheels on the doors so that they ride on the
ground, this of course needs hinges with plenty of axial play.
--

Juergen,
Hmmm - I'll think about that... The ground
outside falls away quite rapidly but perhaps
there is some way I can at least give the hinges
a little help.. Wheels on springs? :-)
Thanks for your help,
Roy

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 08:58:11 -0800, mac davis
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:53:44 -0000, "RzB" wrote:

I am converting my garage to a woodworking workshop...

I would like some advice/thoughts on replacing the
existing metal up'n'over doors with some normally
hinged hung wooden doors.

Here are some pics of what it looks like today and
what it might look like in the future!!

http://www.gillandroy.com/diy/garagedoors

..... snip


suggestion that has nothing to do with metal or wood but I had to bring up...

If you don't park a car in the garage, consider a temporary insulated wall with
oversized swinging door, that fits the opening..

Or, think about the old type of slider that goes sideways in 2 or 3 pieces..

Suggestions based on my last 3 shops, all garages, and the fact that I'd rather
not be opening a garage door every time I want to go in & out of the shop...
The best of the last 3 was the one that had the sliding doors... (not sure how
that would work with what looks like a 1 car garage, though)
I found it very handy to just open it enough to walk in or out and leave it open
for light & ventilation..


I used a double French door in mine. The door fit all but about 2 feet
of the one-car width door, the remainder I framed out for windows and an
air conditioner. http://mklange.cnc.net/ShopPictures/Outside002.jpg shows
how that works, more pictures are shown at
http://mklange.cnc.net/ShopPics.html




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message

--- clip..


I used a double French door in mine. The door fit all but about 2 feet
of the one-car width door, the remainder I framed out for windows and an
air conditioner. http://mklange.cnc.net/ShopPictures/Outside002.jpg shows
how that works, more pictures are shown at
http://mklange.cnc.net/ShopPics.html



Yes - very nice - you do have just a tad more
space in the US than here in the UK :-)

Unfortunately, French doors in my application
would not stop much of the sound !!

Thanks,
Roy

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 14:43:28 -0000, "RzB"
wrote:

Ahh - So the way to remove them is when
they are in the raised position. I must admit I
haven't looked at them in detail yes...
I had read some horror stories of people
getting hurt, so will make sure of what
I'm doing when the time comes...

Yes, the old garage spring doors are unloaded in the up position, just
be aware that as soon as you disconnect the springs, the doors are
*VERY* heavy and can come crashing down on you if not adequately
supported. In any case, you're probably going to need a lot of help
lowering the door safely with the springs detached.

Be careful.