How vulnerable are garage workshops due to the ability of an intruder
to get through the garage door? I hear stories of garage doors
spontaneously opening, due to other garage doors using the same codes
or some stray electromagnetic interference. My own door will
occasionally lower to about a foot off the ground and then reverse
itself (only in wet weather). If I don't stay to watch it, I might
leave home with the door fully open.

wrote in message

How vulnerable are garage workshops due to the ability of an intruder
to get through the garage door? I hear stories of garage doors
spontaneously opening, due to other garage doors using the same codes
or some stray electromagnetic interference. My own door will
occasionally lower to about a foot off the ground and then reverse
itself (only in wet weather). If I don't stay to watch it, I might
leave home with the door fully open.

I certainly wouldn't trust my tools to the vagaries of an automatic garage
door. I disabled the automatic door opener the minute I started using the
stand alone building as a shop and installed an alarm system.

Bought the parts from a local security store, ran the wiring for the two
'zones' (garage door and walk-in door), and installed the detectors, siren,
keypad and control box myself in less than a day, including a dedicated
circuit off my sub-panel, all for about $200.

This was a few years back, so it is probably cheaper by now.

FWIW, a C-Clamp, clamped to the roller track, and positioned just above one
of the rollers when the door is closed, is a pretty effective way to keep a
garage door from being opened from the outside, alarm system or no.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05

On 8 Jan 2006 03:33:23 -0800, wrote:

How vulnerable are garage workshops due to the ability of an intruder
to get through the garage door? I hear stories of garage doors
spontaneously opening, due to other garage doors using the same codes
or some stray electromagnetic interference. My own door will
occasionally lower to about a foot off the ground and then reverse
itself (only in wet weather). If I don't stay to watch it, I might
leave home with the door fully open.

You can unplug the door opener. I know someone who attached a wooden
stick to the plug to make this convenient. Also, most garage doors
have a lock on them. Think about being a burglar and how you would
break in to your own garage, then fix these items.

On 8 Jan 2006 03:33:23 -0800, wrote:

How vulnerable are garage workshops due to the ability of an intruder
to get through the garage door? I hear stories of garage doors
spontaneously opening, due to other garage doors using the same codes
or some stray electromagnetic interference. My own door will
occasionally lower to about a foot off the ground and then reverse
itself (only in wet weather). If I don't stay to watch it, I might
leave home with the door fully open.

If you're not going to park in the garage/shop, disable the remote function and
install a key switch... they're cheap and easy to wire... you can also program
most openers that use a remote keypad to NOT respond to wireless openers..

IMO, the best protection is neighbors that keep an eye out for each other and a
lot of light...
I prefer the type of security light that is on "low" setting until motion is
sensed, then kicks in "high" for as long as you've got it set for.. nobody who's
intentions are bad wants to trigger a light..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Get a new Opener with rolling codes. Videotape or take pictures of all
your tools. Catalog it. Check your insurance policy and insure
properly. Don't worry.

Mon, Jan 9, 2006, 6:23am (EST-1) (Swingman) doth sayeth:
snip FWIW, a C-Clamp, clamped to the roller track, and positioned just
above one of the rollers when the door is closed, is a pretty effective
way to keep a garage door from being opened from the outside, alarm
system or no.

That'll work, but I prefer drilling a hold thru, and using a
padlock - then in case they get inside, they still can't open the door
- at least without bolt cutters, or some effort.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 02:36:00 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

That'll work, but I prefer drilling a hold thru, and using a
padlock - then in case they get inside, they still can't open the door

Our local tea-leaves are pretty unsophisticated. They won't try to
spoof the radio on an automatic door, they'll just kick a hole in it.
Domestic-grade automatic doors are pretty lightweight construction,
usually fibreglass panels a foot or two high.

Given the choice I'd go for an inherently stronger door (i.e. steel,
which I can weld an internal grid into) even if this meant losing the
auto-opener. After all, if it's a workshop and not for parking, I don't
really need an opener.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 02:36:00 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

That'll work, but I prefer drilling a hold thru, and using a
padlock - then in case they get inside, they still can't open the door

Our local tea-leaves are pretty unsophisticated. They won't try to
spoof the radio on an automatic door, they'll just kick a hole in it.
Domestic-grade automatic doors are pretty lightweight construction,
usually fibreglass panels a foot or two high.

Given the choice I'd go for an inherently stronger door (i.e. steel,
which I can weld an internal grid into) even if this meant losing the
auto-opener. After all, if it's a workshop and not for parking, I don't
really need an opener.

Maybe. But that might put you into the same "boat" as the apocryphal type
who built a cabin cruiser hull in his basement and then had to tear down a
wall to get it outside. Something over 50 years ago, I knew a guy who did
something similar, but he PLANNED to tear the wall out. No other place to
build the boat, so...at that time, I was too young and stupid to consider
just what his wife must have thought about the whole enterprise.

"J T" wrote in message
Mon, Jan 9, 2006, 6:23am (EST-1) (Swingman) doth sayeth:
snip FWIW, a C-Clamp, clamped to the roller track, and positioned just
above one of the rollers when the door is closed, is a pretty effective
way to keep a garage door from being opened from the outside, alarm
system or no.

That'll work, but I prefer drilling a hold thru, and using a
padlock - then in case they get inside, they still can't open the door
- at least without bolt cutters, or some effort.

Yabbut, once they're in a shop they generally have all the tools they need
to break into/out of Ft Knox.

I position a C-clamp slightly above a roller so that the door can actually
be opened if they get past the lock ... opened just far enough to set off
the alarm, which is train whistle loud.

If they're going to steal my tools, I'd like to at least **** with the
*******s a little.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05

"Charles Self" wrote in message

Maybe. But that might put you into the same "boat" as the apocryphal type
who built a cabin cruiser hull in his basement and then had to tear down a
wall to get it outside. Something over 50 years ago, I knew a guy who did
something similar, but he PLANNED to tear the wall out. No other place to
build the boat, so...at that time, I was too young and stupid to consider
just what his wife must have thought about the whole enterprise.

Sorry to say that I actually did that once.

Not a boat, but a birdcage. In Jr. HS metal shop. Stupid damn shop teacher.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:08:04 GMT, "Charles Self"
wrote:

Maybe. But that might put you into the same "boat" as the apocryphal type
who built a cabin cruiser hull in his basement

I can still have an opening door - but a heavy one-piece door with
internal reinforcement that I have to lift myself, not on a motor.

My Dad's shed (commercial truck-size) has a big steel roller door, with
electric lift. These are great fun - a few hundred bucks for a new motor
every time it dies (regularly) and a minor parking accident can bend the
lower strips which needs the whole thing lifting down to repair it.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:37:24 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

"J T" wrote in message
Mon, Jan 9, 2006, 6:23am (EST-1) (Swingman) doth sayeth:
snip FWIW, a C-Clamp, clamped to the roller track, and positioned just
above one of the rollers when the door is closed, is a pretty effective
way to keep a garage door from being opened from the outside, alarm
system or no.

That'll work, but I prefer drilling a hold thru, and using a
padlock - then in case they get inside, they still can't open the door
- at least without bolt cutters, or some effort.

Yabbut, once they're in a shop they generally have all the tools they need
to break into/out of Ft Knox.

I position a C-clamp slightly above a roller so that the door can actually
be opened if they get past the lock ... opened just far enough to set off
the alarm, which is train whistle loud.

If they're going to steal my tools, I'd like to at least **** with the
*******s a little.

Yeah.. it would be nice to have them discover that the shop kitty was a lion..
*g*
How about a power door closeing/locking device that goes off with the alarm,
like some jewelry stores have? lock the bad guyz in until the neighbors get
there with their torches and pitchforks..


I think the bottom line is that locks only keep honest people and beginners
out... if they know what's in the garage and want to get in, they will..

I'm lucky to live in a pretty crime free neighborhood with good neighbor
support, but if they want to get in, they'll find a way...
(and my homeowner's policy needs to have an updated list of tools.. good
reminder!)



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 7:37am (EST-1) (Swingman) doth sayeth:
Yabbut, once they're in a shop they generally have all the tools they
need to break into/out of Ft Knox.
snip train whistle loud. snip

Oh yeah, I know they could get thru the padlock, but I'd make them
work a bit.

Mention of your alarm, reminds me of another little trick. Rig up
some aircraft landing lights inside, so they light up, along with the
alarm. Heh heh. It's not lethal, but the littls POSs won't be able to
see for awhile. Hehehehe

It was a sad day when politicians stopped people from using
set-guns against criminals.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:08:04 GMT, "Charles Self"
wrote:

Maybe. But that might put you into the same "boat" as the apocryphal type
who built a cabin cruiser hull in his basement and then had to tear down a
wall to get it outside. Something over 50 years ago, I knew a guy who did
something similar, but he PLANNED to tear the wall out. No other place to
build the boat, so...at that time, I was too young and stupid to consider
just what his wife must have thought about the whole enterprise.

Many years ago ferro-cement boats were pretty popular for
home-builders. The thing with them was that the hull had to cure for a
year before being moved. A guy of my acquaintance built one in his
backyard, planning to bring it out via the vacant lot next to his
house. You guessed it - during the ensuing year someone bought that
lot and built a house on it, leaving him with the only option being to
remove part of his garage to get it by.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"J T" wrote in message

It was a sad day when politicians stopped people from using
set-guns against criminals.


I started to say/type the same thing, but chickened out at the final mouse
click ... thanks!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 12:43pm (EST-3)
(Tim*Douglass) doth state:
Many years ago ferro-cement boats were pretty popular for home-builders.
The thing with them was that the hull had to cure for a year before
being moved. snip

Nothing I've ever read on the subject ever stated anything like
that. What's your reference?



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:19:40 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 7:37am (EST-1) (Swingman) doth sayeth:
Yabbut, once they're in a shop they generally have all the tools they
need to break into/out of Ft Knox.
snip train whistle loud. snip

Oh yeah, I know they could get thru the padlock, but I'd make them
work a bit.

Mention of your alarm, reminds me of another little trick. Rig up
some aircraft landing lights inside, so they light up, along with the
alarm. Heh heh. It's not lethal, but the littls POSs won't be able to
see for awhile. Hehehehe

It was a sad day when politicians stopped people from using
set-guns against criminals.



JOAT

Halon in combination with automatically closing windows and doors
could achieve the desired effect too. Can you get halon any more?

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:19:40 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 7:37am (EST-1) (Swingman) doth sayeth:
Yabbut, once they're in a shop they generally have all the tools they
need to break into/out of Ft Knox.
snip train whistle loud. snip

Oh yeah, I know they could get thru the padlock, but I'd make them
work a bit.

Mention of your alarm, reminds me of another little trick. Rig up
some aircraft landing lights inside, so they light up, along with the
alarm. Heh heh. It's not lethal, but the littls POSs won't be able to
see for awhile. Hehehehe

It was a sad day when politicians stopped people from using
set-guns against criminals.



JOAT

Halon in combination with automatically closing windows and doors
could achieve the desired effect too. Can you get halon any more?

no, and i've heard there are big fines if an existing halon system gets set
off.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:08:58 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 12:43pm (EST-3)
(Tim*Douglass) doth state:
Many years ago ferro-cement boats were pretty popular for home-builders.
The thing with them was that the hull had to cure for a year before
being moved. snip

Nothing I've ever read on the subject ever stated anything like
that. What's your reference?

Just what some of the Puget Sound area amateur boat builders told me
back in the 70s. I've never tried to build one so never researched it.
Concrete has a pretty dramatic curing curve for several months after
it is "hard", but I don't know really how long it should be. But every
one of the guys I knew who built or had a friend who built a
ferro-cement boat aged the hull a year before moving.

Whether it is necessary or not, by friend thought it was and ended up
"remodeling" in order to remove his boat from the back lot.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:08:58 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 12:43pm (EST-3)
(Tim Douglass) doth state:
Many years ago ferro-cement boats were pretty popular for home-builders.
The thing with them was that the hull had to cure for a year before
being moved. snip

Nothing I've ever read on the subject ever stated anything like
that. What's your reference?

Just what some of the Puget Sound area amateur boat builders told me
back in the 70s. I've never tried to build one so never researched it.
Concrete has a pretty dramatic curing curve for several months after
it is "hard", but I don't know really how long it should be. But every
one of the guys I knew who built or had a friend who built a
ferro-cement boat aged the hull a year before moving.

it does almost all of it's curing in the first 40 days. when building a
boat, a builder would be lucky to fit out the interior and deck in a year,
so that's probably where that time period came from. it can't be launched
until it has a deck, and it usually doesn't have a deck until it's got most
of the interior done.

Whether it is necessary or not, by friend thought it was and ended up
"remodeling" in order to remove his boat from the back lot.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh,
and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:47:57 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
wrote:


"George Max" wrote in message
.. .

Can you get halon any more?

no, and i've heard there are big fines if an existing halon system gets set
off.



All the good functional stuff is no longer available.

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:08:58 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 12:43pm (EST-3)
(Tim Douglass) doth state:
Many years ago ferro-cement boats were pretty popular for home-builders.
The thing with them was that the hull had to cure for a year before
being moved. snip

Nothing I've ever read on the subject ever stated anything like
that. What's your reference?

Just what some of the Puget Sound area amateur boat builders told me
back in the 70s. I've never tried to build one so never researched it.
Concrete has a pretty dramatic curing curve for several months after
it is "hard", but I don't know really how long it should be. But every
one of the guys I knew who built or had a friend who built a
ferro-cement boat aged the hull a year before moving.


Concrete is one of the real oddities of the construction world. It cures
forever, or seems to. I've seen carpenters fooling around who would just use
the side of their hammer to push regular nails into 3 day old concrete. Come
back 30 days later and you have to use hardened nails. In 30 years, you'd
best use a powder actuated gun.

Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 10:32am (EST-1)
(George*Max) coldly suggests:
Halon in combination with automatically closing windows and doors could
achieve the desired effect too. Can you get halon any more?

Doesn't really matter, because setting a trap like that would be
illegal, and leave you very open to proscecutation. And, probably get
you sued up the wazoo for wrongful death. Among other issues, it would
be unselective. Lethal traps are illegal. Traps deliberately causing
injury would be also, I believe. With our crooked lawyers and
politicians, possibly even causing the doors and windows to secure
automatically, trapping someone inside, would be called illegal
detention, or some such, and let the criminal(s) go free, and you to
jail.

Probably be a better idea to make a big production of everyone
leaving, taking all vehicles, and ramain inside, hidden, with a shotgun,
waiting for someone to break in. Possibly illegal also, especially if
your plan is to deliberately set out to shoot someone, but at least it
would be selective - and, no, you probably woud not get away with
shooting your mother-in-law by claiming you though she was a burgler.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 9:53am (EST-3)
(Tim*Douglass) did stateth:
snip Whether it is necessary or not, by friend thought it was and
ended up "remodeling" in order to remove his boat from the back lot.

Don't think so. Don't know if the Chinese are still making barges
out of it, but they did - and they "aged" them for about a week, buy
sinking them in the water, then put them to use. And, during WWI they
made Liberty Ships from it, and they didn't have a year to waste. I
know the Navy spearmented for awhile, and they wouldn't have wasted a
year.

Must be tons of stuff on the web about it, but I think I still have
my references. May check it out later. If you've never read much on
it, fascinating. They've even made boats/floats with 1/4", that quarter
inch, walls. The Rooshians salvaged a boat that had been trapped thru
the winter on a river. Took a bucket of sand, some cement, and water,
to patch it, and it was ready to go.

Sometimes it even amazes me, some of the stuff I've researched -
and even still have material on. I might not know a whole lot about
very many things, but I do know a little about a whole lot.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

"J T" wrote in message
...
Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 10:32am (EST-1)
(George Max) coldly suggests:
Halon in combination with automatically closing windows and doors could
achieve the desired effect too. Can you get halon any more?

Doesn't really matter, because setting a trap like that would be
illegal, and leave you very open to proscecutation. And, probably get
you sued up the wazoo for wrongful death. Among other issues, it would
be unselective. Lethal traps are illegal. Traps deliberately causing
injury would be also, I believe. With our crooked lawyers and
politicians, possibly even causing the doors and windows to secure
automatically, trapping someone inside, would be called illegal
detention, or some such, and let the criminal(s) go free, and you to
jail.

Probably be a better idea to make a big production of everyone
leaving, taking all vehicles, and ramain inside, hidden, with a shotgun,
waiting for someone to break in. Possibly illegal also, especially if
your plan is to deliberately set out to shoot someone, but at least it
would be selective - and, no, you probably woud not get away with
shooting your mother-in-law by claiming you though she was a burgler.

Reminds me of something like 35 years ago, when I offered to "house sit" for
my first wife's elderly (about t90 then) grandmother who was having problems
with her summer home being broken into. Thieves would bust in, trash the
place and leave. The only things to steal were books and old--not
antique--furniture. Hell, it was an old (1839) farmhouse in the Hudson River
Valley, neat place, but not fancy.

I got turned down. I never did figure out if my in-laws were afraid I'd kill
a burglar and go to jail or he'd kill me and NOT go to jail.

Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 12:47am (EST+5)
(Charles*Self) doth sayeth:
snip I got turned down. I never did figure out if my in-laws were
afraid I'd kill a burglar and go to jail or he'd kill me and NOT go to
jail.

Well, that's better than if they figured you'd make a bigger mess
then the trespassers.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

"J T" wrote in message
...
Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 12:47am (EST+5)
(Charles Self) doth sayeth:
snip I got turned down. I never did figure out if my in-laws were
afraid I'd kill a burglar and go to jail or he'd kill me and NOT go to
jail.

Well, that's better than if they figured you'd make a bigger mess
then the trespassers.


True., but...if I'd sat there all night every night for 10 days or so, with
zip happening, and a baseball bat at hand, if one ever showed, I'd probably
have been grouchy enough to truly make a mess. But that was a long, long
time ago.

Incidentally, that was in Dutchess County, NY, so a ball bat is easier to
explain than even a shotgun should something actually happen.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:55:53 -0600, Swingman wrote:

"J T" wrote in message

It was a sad day when politicians stopped people from using
set-guns against criminals.


I started to say/type the same thing, but chickened out at the final mouse
click ... thanks!

It would be a shame if the burglar spilled gasoline all over and then
caused a fire. Don't know how much legal trouble you'd get into for
storing gasoline in 5 gallon glass jugs.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:19:54 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
wrote:


"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:08:58 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 12:43pm (EST-3)
(Tim Douglass) doth state:
Many years ago ferro-cement boats were pretty popular for home-builders.
The thing with them was that the hull had to cure for a year before
being moved. snip

Nothing I've ever read on the subject ever stated anything like
that. What's your reference?

Just what some of the Puget Sound area amateur boat builders told me
back in the 70s. I've never tried to build one so never researched it.
Concrete has a pretty dramatic curing curve for several months after
it is "hard", but I don't know really how long it should be. But every
one of the guys I knew who built or had a friend who built a
ferro-cement boat aged the hull a year before moving.

it does almost all of it's curing in the first 40 days. when building a
boat, a builder would be lucky to fit out the interior and deck in a year,
so that's probably where that time period came from. it can't be launched
until it has a deck, and it usually doesn't have a deck until it's got most
of the interior done.

From one of my books:

"Mixed with sufficient water and prevented from drying out, concrete
grows harder and stronger with the passage of time. The process is
called curing and starts sometime after final set and continues for
years, perhaps indefinitely. the gain in strength is most rapid at
first, tapering off until it becomes almost imperceptible after the
first few years. Typically, concrete that exhibits a compressive
strength of 1,500 psi three days after pouring resists 2,000 psi after
seven days, 4,000 psi after twenty-eight days, 5,000 psi after three
months and 5,500 psi after one year."

"Drying can be prevented by covering the concrete with a waterproof
covering, wet newspapers, wet straw, or sawdust or by sprinkling it
frequently with water after it has gone well beyond initial set."

It looks from that like you could do OK after just three months. As to
the time it takes to fit the deck and interior, most of those I had
acquaintance with had the hull made up then they sat with a gradually
shredding tarp over them for the requisite year. I believe the
conventional wisdom was that you didn't want to work in them until
they had finished that year of curing. Oddly enough, several that I
observed had the deck made of concrete as well and it was laid up at
the same time as the hull - with suitable access holes for getting
motors and such in. At least on had the basic cabin made from F-C, but
I would think that would be moving more weight up high than is ideal.

F-C boat construction is a fascinating thing. Years ago I thought I
wanted to build one, so hung out with a bunch of boat builders. The
fact that they were all missing at least one finger from either the
bandsaw or the centerboard cable gave me reason to re-consider.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:07:54 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 9:53am (EST-3)
(Tim*Douglass) did stateth:
snip Whether it is necessary or not, by friend thought it was and
ended up "remodeling" in order to remove his boat from the back lot.

Don't think so. Don't know if the Chinese are still making barges
out of it, but they did - and they "aged" them for about a week, buy
sinking them in the water, then put them to use. And, during WWI they
made Liberty Ships from it, and they didn't have a year to waste. I
know the Navy spearmented for awhile, and they wouldn't have wasted a
year.

I think application would make quite a bit of difference. A
thick-walled river barge is a bit different from a 3/4" thick hull for
an ocean-going sailboat. On the Liberty ships the concrete was used as
a combination of reinforcing and dampening between two layers of steel
plates (maybe 1/2" or better) near the screw. It was a layer up to
about 6" thick IIRC and significantly reduced the engineering
complexity of bracing for the torque effects of a single screw on a
medium sized cargo vessel.

Must be tons of stuff on the web about it, but I think I still have
my references. May check it out later. If you've never read much on
it, fascinating. They've even made boats/floats with 1/4", that quarter
inch, walls. The Rooshians salvaged a boat that had been trapped thru
the winter on a river. Took a bucket of sand, some cement, and water,
to patch it, and it was ready to go.

That's one of the reasons why F-C boats were pretty popular. I don't
hear much about them any more (but don't live near the ocean either)
so they may not be as popular as they were 30 years ago.

Sometimes it even amazes me, some of the stuff I've researched -
and even still have material on. I might not know a whole lot about
very many things, but I do know a little about a whole lot.

I know what you mean.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:42:26 -0800, Tim Douglass
wrote:

A thick-walled river barge is a bit different from a 3/4" thick hull for
an ocean-going sailboat.

Not so different. I've never seen an amateur boatbuilder's first
concrete hull that was anything like 3/4" thin! I have however seen some
plug-ugly concrete hulls.

When I lived on the Seine (17m steel hull - ex Dutch Navy) we used to
moor near one with all the charm of a nuclear bunker. On the other side
was a houseboat converted from a barge oiltank - that looked positively
charming in comparison. Just a few posts down was allegedly where
Catherine Deneuve lived, but I can't say we ever saw her. Mind you, all
the women in Neuilly looked like Catherine Deneuve.

Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 3:42pm (EST-3)
(Tim*Douglass) done writ:
snip On the Liberty ships the concrete was used as a combination of
reinforcing and dampening between two layers of steel plates (maybe 1/2"
or better) near the screw. snip

Check this.
http://www.concreteships.org/history/



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:31:06 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 3:42pm (EST-3)
(Tim*Douglass) done writ:
snip On the Liberty ships the concrete was used as a combination of
reinforcing and dampening between two layers of steel plates (maybe 1/2"
or better) near the screw. snip

Check this.
http://www.concreteships.org/history/

Interesting. I didn't know about any of those concrete ships. I would
point out, however, that none of them are Liberty ships, which were a
specific class of welded steel ship built during the Second World War.
They were the first all-welded steel ships and the first built using
modular construction. Credit Henry Kaiser with inventing a lot of the
mass-production methods for them. My exposure to the Liberty ships
was via the shipyard where my father was working scrapping them out.

See this for a lot about the Liberty ships:
http://organizations.ju.edu/fch/1994pelt.htm

Including this:
According to Evon Brewton, their slow speed made Liberty Ships
"sitting ducks for submarines. So all ships were reinforced by
concrete from [the] bottom up to three feet above water line. . . ."

I don't recall any concrete anywhere except around the screw area, so
I question this particular assertion, at least as a general statement
about the ships.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I was kinda hoping that everyone
would say that there's nothing to worry about, but it's obvious now
that I need to address the issue. I do plan on parking in the garage
as well, so some of the solutions aren't available to me. Perhaps
I'll build a small addition to the garage that can be locked.

Thank you.