What does increased volt rating (say 18 as opposed to 12) offer and
what is the advantage of a higher Ah rating on the battery? I would
have thought that a higher-rated voltage (like 24) would be preferable
to lower but seems like some 14 volt models are rated better. Aside
from the obvious "would you rather have a DeWalt or a Ryobi" questions,
what are the considerations?

FoggyTown

foggytown wrote:
What does increased volt rating (say 18 as opposed to 12) offer and
what is the advantage of a higher Ah rating on the battery?

A higher voltage means that for the same power you need lower current
draw, which means thinner wires and less weight. However you also need
more cells in the battery, so the battery usually becomes bigger.

All else being equal a higher Ah rating means a longer runtime.

I would
have thought that a higher-rated voltage (like 24) would be preferable
to lower but seems like some 14 volt models are rated better.

This gets into design and build quality issues.

Read the reviews and pick something that looks good.

I saw an 18V drill for $30CAD--likely it has nylon gears but would be
fine for occasional use. When the batteries die you just buy a new one.

A pro might have other concerns, like weight, reliability, durability,
service, torque, etc.

Chris

In general, the higher voltage tools give more power when you need it
and longer run times when you don't need all that power. The tradeoff
is that the high voltage batteries are heavier and more expensive.
Most of us only have rare occasions when we need more power than 14
volts will deliver. But the 18 or 24 volt tool is heavier EVERY time
you pick it up. It's easy to hook up a corded drill for those time
when your cordless doesn't quite have what it takes.

More Amp Hours gives longer run time. But that's just a convenience
issue for most people. I've never run down a battery before the spare
got recharged.

Something to remember is that, unlike their corded cousins, cordless
tools DON'T last forever, even on the shelf. Batteries die of old age
or high mileage or both. The price of 3 batteries usually equals the
total cost of a new kit with drill, 2 batteries and charger. About 6
years is all I ever got out of a cordless anything. So, resist the
temptation to buy way more tool than you really need.

That said, I LOVE my cordless drills. All 3 of them. Wouldn't be
without 'em.

DonkeyHody
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down
on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold
one anymore." - Mark Twain

Chris Friesen wrote:

foggytown wrote:
What does increased volt rating (say 18 as opposed to 12) offer and
what is the advantage of a higher Ah rating on the battery?

A higher voltage means that for the same power you need lower current
draw, which means thinner wires and less weight. However you also need
more cells in the battery, so the battery usually becomes bigger.

All else being equal a higher Ah rating means a longer runtime.

I would
have thought that a higher-rated voltage (like 24) would be preferable
to lower but seems like some 14 volt models are rated better.

This gets into design and build quality issues.

Read the reviews and pick something that looks good.

I saw an 18V drill for $30CAD--likely it has nylon gears but would be
fine for occasional use. When the batteries die you just buy a new one.

A pro might have other concerns, like weight, reliability, durability,
service, torque, etc.

Chris


All good points, I use a Porter Cable 14.4 and love it. Its not to heavy and
I use it everyday. I mean everyday, and I rarely run the battery down and
have to use the other that's in the charger. It has plenty of power in
regular mode and in hammer mode. I have run it down while drilling 15 1/4
inch masonry holes in hammer mode. It's never been serviced, although I
have bought a replacement battery after 3 years of everyday use. Now
freaking Black and Decker owns them and I just wonder if I can say the same
about this product a year from now.

Rich
--
"you can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

"evodawg" wrote in message
news:jPMif.2918$HC2.1747@trnddc06...
Chris Friesen wrote:

foggytown wrote:
What does increased volt rating (say 18 as opposed to 12) offer and
what is the advantage of a higher Ah rating on the battery?

A higher voltage means that for the same power you need lower current
draw, which means thinner wires and less weight. However you also need
more cells in the battery, so the battery usually becomes bigger.

All else being equal a higher Ah rating means a longer runtime.

I would
have thought that a higher-rated voltage (like 24) would be preferable
to lower but seems like some 14 volt models are rated better.

This gets into design and build quality issues.

Read the reviews and pick something that looks good.

I saw an 18V drill for $30CAD--likely it has nylon gears but would be
fine for occasional use. When the batteries die you just buy a new one.

A pro might have other concerns, like weight, reliability, durability,
service, torque, etc.

Chris


All good points, I use a Porter Cable 14.4 and love it. Its not to heavy
and
I use it everyday. I mean everyday, and I rarely run the battery down and
have to use the other that's in the charger. It has plenty of power in
regular mode and in hammer mode. I have run it down while drilling 15 1/4
inch masonry holes in hammer mode. It's never been serviced, although I
have bought a replacement battery after 3 years of everyday use. Now
freaking Black and Decker owns them and I just wonder if I can say the
same
about this product a year from now.


shrug B & D have owned DeWalt since the 1970's. While every tool maker
suffers it's ups and downs, most DeWalt tools are usually some of the better
ones around.

James...

"foggytown" wrote in message
ups.com...
What does increased volt rating (say 18 as opposed to 12) offer and
what is the advantage of a higher Ah rating on the battery? I would
have thought that a higher-rated voltage (like 24) would be preferable
to lower but seems like some 14 volt models are rated better. Aside
from the obvious "would you rather have a DeWalt or a Ryobi" questions,
what are the considerations?

In theory, more volts = more power.

In practice, more volts also = more weight and larger size.

Don't buy more that you need just because bigger is better. I bought a 15.6V
Panasonic because it was smaller, lighter, yet has more power than the 14V
drills and some 18V drills. I use it for mostly light work drilling pilot
holes, driving screws, etc. A 24V would be overkill.

Buy feature you like also. Some drills now have one hand chucks, a nice
feature. Others just feel better in your hand and that can make a
difference if you are doing a lot of drilling or standing on a ladder doing
it. Last year I set out tot he store to buy either a Bosch, DW, or PC and
came home with the Panasonic. It just felt that much better for me. In
reality, for the work that I do, a 12V probably would to the job well.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

In article . com,
"foggytown" wrote:

What does increased volt rating (say 18 as opposed to 12) offer and
what is the advantage of a higher Ah rating on the battery? I would
have thought that a higher-rated voltage (like 24) would be preferable
to lower but seems like some 14 volt models are rated better. Aside
from the obvious "would you rather have a DeWalt or a Ryobi" questions,
what are the considerations?

FoggyTown

Fog, ol' chap, it's like the argument about loudspeakers. What is better
a two-way or a three-way.
Answer: A well designed two-way out performs a poorly designed three way.

Ergo:

A well designed 14volt is more desirable than a crap 18 volt.
I handled the new Milwaukee 28vLithium Sure comes across as capable,
but it is big and heavy. WAY more than my jobs ever need. (The worst I
ever encounter is to core-bore 1 3/8" holes in countertops. (The worst I
ever enCOUNTER..nyuk, snort!)
What I would LIKE is a 14.4 volt Milwaukee impact driver...
close-quatered 1/2" while we're at it.

shrug B & D have owned DeWalt since the 1970's. While every tool maker
suffers it's ups and downs, most DeWalt tools are usually some of the
better ones around.

James...

Sorry don't own anything from Dewalt. I do like the look of their miters but
have never tried one. Maybe it's a subconscience thing and them having
something to do with B&D.

I just can't bring myself to defend this company by buying it's products. I
need a tool that just works and works hard everyday.

--
"you can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

More Amp Hours gives longer run time. But that's just a convenience
issue for most people. I've never run down a battery before the spare
got recharged.

I have. My 12v impact driver sucks up batteries like crazy.
But never with anything else.

So what I think I'm hearing is that a cordless drill can be considered
a "consumable". Buy a cheap-ish one that works and replace it when it
gives up.

FoggyTown

So what I think I'm hearing is that a cordless drill can be considered
a "consumable". Buy a cheap-ish one that works and replace it when it
gives up.

FoggyTown

"foggytown" wrote in message
oups.com...
So what I think I'm hearing is that a cordless drill can be considered
a "consumable". Buy a cheap-ish one that works and replace it when it
gives up.


The batteries will eventually die after one to five years. They can be
rebuilt. The cheap tool is a cheap tool still applies.

evodawg wrote:
Chris Friesen wrote:

foggytown wrote:
What does increased volt rating (say 18 as opposed to 12) offer and
what is the advantage of a higher Ah rating on the battery?

A higher voltage means that for the same power you need lower current
draw, which means thinner wires and less weight. However you also need
more cells in the battery, so the battery usually becomes bigger.

All else being equal a higher Ah rating means a longer runtime.

I would
have thought that a higher-rated voltage (like 24) would be preferable
to lower but seems like some 14 volt models are rated better.

This gets into design and build quality issues.

Read the reviews and pick something that looks good.

I saw an 18V drill for $30CAD--likely it has nylon gears but would be
fine for occasional use. When the batteries die you just buy a new one.

A pro might have other concerns, like weight, reliability, durability,
service, torque, etc.

Chris


All good points, I use a Porter Cable 14.4 and love it. Its not to heavy and
I use it everyday. I mean everyday, and I rarely run the battery down and
have to use the other that's in the charger. It has plenty of power in
regular mode and in hammer mode. I have run it down while drilling 15 1/4
inch masonry holes in hammer mode. It's never been serviced, although I
have bought a replacement battery after 3 years of everyday use. Now
freaking Black and Decker owns them and I just wonder if I can say the same
about this product a year from now.


One of the first press conferences for B&D that I attended had DeWalt
tagged on almost as an afterthought. The next year, the B&D conference
was smaller and DW larger. The emphasis on yellow and black has
continued, and the tools are used by a great many trades people,
usually without complaint. Those first tools were back around '90 or
'91 and were basically slight redevelopments of Black & Decker's
Professional line, along with some re-badged Elu (the first slide
compound miter saw and router).

Quality has been reasonably high all along, with a few lapses (but no
more than any top notch tool company makes).

I don't like this trend to conglomeration any more than anyone does,
but it isn't really useful, IMO, to "punish" the company by not buying
products from a high quality division because they also have a consumer
division.

If you want to avoid tools from any base company, from the looks of
things currently you'd best be ready within the next five or ten years
to have everything you need and never have a breakdown, because we may
soon be limited to two or three or four major producers for almost all
our tools.

Then again, it may once again become evident to big business, outside
oil and defense, that over-sized companies are hard to aim, ponderous
to move along, and darned near impossible to stop, while also being
hard to navigate profitably. Works on a short term basis, especially
with the tax dances acquisitions allow the accountants, but as the hot
shot greed merchants discovered in the '80s, it ain't the true hot set
up for long term profitability. By that time, maybe more of the MBAs
who are bored with tools but in love with money will have filtered
through the system and gotten fired for their idiocies (sure, bet on
it).

In the meantime, expect, if things don't change, three or four major
tool companies, plus some independents like Grizzly, by the end of the
decade.We're really not far from there now.

foggytown wrote:
So what I think I'm hearing is that a cordless drill can be considered
a "consumable". Buy a cheap-ish one that works and replace it when it
gives up.

FoggyTown

Foggy, you're sort of right. It's highly doubtful that your
grandchildren will treasure your cordless tools. BUT I still buy
industrial quality instead of consumer quality, even though I know the
batteries will fail and I'll buy a new one before the motor wears out.
I just don't enjoy working with junk, even if I got a bargain on it.


However, I would caution against buying the biggest, baddest cordless
you can find. There's some really heavy duty stuff out there - aimed
at the guy who drills holes all day every day I guess. And the guy who
wants to impress his friends. But you pay for that power many times.
Once when you purchase it. And again every time it pulls your pants
down while it's hanging from your belt.

DonkeyHody

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
ups.com...

One of the first press conferences for B&D that I attended had DeWalt
tagged on almost as an afterthought. The next year, the B&D conference
was smaller and DW larger. The emphasis on yellow and black has
continued, and the tools are used by a great many trades people,
usually without complaint. Those first tools were back around '90 or
'91 and were basically slight redevelopments of Black & Decker's
Professional line, along with some re-badged Elu (the first slide
compound miter saw and router).

Quality has been reasonably high all along, with a few lapses (but no
more than any top notch tool company makes).


Very true Charlie - and thanks for posting it. I'm no apolgist for Black &
Decker, but it's unfortunate when the rants (well, maybe rant is a strong
word...) begin simply because they are the parent company.

B&D has actually done a good job of satisfying the market across the
spectrum of needs. Those Professional series tools that they used to sell
under their own logo were very good tools. I had a B&D Professional 3/8
drill motor that was every bit a professional level tool. Metal gears, ball
bearings, strong motor, etc. It ran and it ran and it ran, through a lot of
abusive time. I would have gotten it rebuilt, but about that time DeWalt
came along under B&D. What used to the Professional line was now a new
logo. Same great quality, as any DeWalt owner will attest.

The DeWalt line today is the testimony that B&D has indeed demonstrated that
they are comitted to continuing a quality build, professional line. Quality
did not suffer in any way. I wouldn't buy the black and orange product
line, but then again it's built for the market it targets - light use,
homeowner quality. Fine for that market, but many of us put our tools to
use at a level that demands a professional quality tool even if we don't
work full time in the trades.

--

-Mike-

"evodawg" wrote in message
news:jPMif.2918$HC2.1747@trnddc06...
Chris Friesen wrote:

All good points, I use a Porter Cable 14.4 and love it. Its not to heavy
and
I use it everyday. I mean everyday, and I rarely run the battery down and
have to use the other that's in the charger. It has plenty of power in
regular mode and in hammer mode. I have run it down while drilling 15 1/4
inch masonry holes in hammer mode. It's never been serviced, although I
have bought a replacement battery after 3 years of everyday use. Now
freaking Black and Decker owns them and I just wonder if I can say the
same
about this product a year from now.


Gee, If you really like the PC cordless you might love the B&D cordless.

"foggytown" wrote in message
ups.com...
So what I think I'm hearing is that a cordless drill can be considered
a "consumable". Buy a cheap-ish one that works and replace it when it
gives up.


Think of it more like buying an automobile. In about 3 years you have to
replace the battery. I have never worn out any of my cordless drills.
That said, while I do not care for the weight of the Ridgid drills they do
indeed now come with a lifetime warranty including the battery and charger.

Gee, If you really like the PC cordless you might love the B&D cordless.


Send me one and I'll let you know!

--
"you can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

On 29 Nov 2005 04:03:36 -0800, "Charlie Self"
wrote:


evodawg wrote:
Chris Friesen wrote:

foggytown wrote:
What does increased volt rating (say 18 as opposed to 12) offer and
what is the advantage of a higher Ah rating on the battery?

A higher voltage means that for the same power you need lower current
draw, which means thinner wires and less weight. However you also need
more cells in the battery, so the battery usually becomes bigger.

All else being equal a higher Ah rating means a longer runtime.

I would
have thought that a higher-rated voltage (like 24) would be preferable
to lower but seems like some 14 volt models are rated better.

This gets into design and build quality issues.

Read the reviews and pick something that looks good.

I saw an 18V drill for $30CAD--likely it has nylon gears but would be
fine for occasional use. When the batteries die you just buy a new one.

A pro might have other concerns, like weight, reliability, durability,
service, torque, etc.

Chris


All good points, I use a Porter Cable 14.4 and love it. Its not to heavy and
I use it everyday. I mean everyday, and I rarely run the battery down and
have to use the other that's in the charger. It has plenty of power in
regular mode and in hammer mode. I have run it down while drilling 15 1/4
inch masonry holes in hammer mode. It's never been serviced, although I
have bought a replacement battery after 3 years of everyday use. Now
freaking Black and Decker owns them and I just wonder if I can say the same
about this product a year from now.


One of the first press conferences for B&D that I attended had DeWalt
tagged on almost as an afterthought. The next year, the B&D conference
was smaller and DW larger. The emphasis on yellow and black has
continued, and the tools are used by a great many trades people,
usually without complaint. Those first tools were back around '90 or
'91 and were basically slight redevelopments of Black & Decker's
Professional line, along with some re-badged Elu (the first slide
compound miter saw and router).

Quality has been reasonably high all along, with a few lapses (but no
more than any top notch tool company makes).

I don't like this trend to conglomeration any more than anyone does,
but it isn't really useful, IMO, to "punish" the company by not buying
products from a high quality division because they also have a consumer
division.

If you want to avoid tools from any base company, from the looks of
things currently you'd best be ready within the next five or ten years
to have everything you need and never have a breakdown, because we may
soon be limited to two or three or four major producers for almost all
our tools.

Then again, it may once again become evident to big business, outside
oil and defense, that over-sized companies are hard to aim, ponderous
to move along, and darned near impossible to stop, while also being
hard to navigate profitably. Works on a short term basis, especially
with the tax dances acquisitions allow the accountants, but as the hot
shot greed merchants discovered in the '80s, it ain't the true hot set
up for long term profitability. By that time, maybe more of the MBAs
who are bored with tools but in love with money will have filtered
through the system and gotten fired for their idiocies (sure, bet on
it).

In the meantime, expect, if things don't change, three or four major
tool companies, plus some independents like Grizzly, by the end of the
decade.We're really not far from there now.


Points well made Charlie, and I think you're right on target. In my
opinion one of the factors that make a great tool company is having a
core of people working for the company in decision making positions
that are end users, or think like end users and really like tools. It
has been my experience that much of that is lost in these
consolidations.

Frank

Charlie Self wrote:


Then again, it may once again become evident to big business, outside
oil and defense, that over-sized companies are hard to aim, ponderous
to move along, and darned near impossible to stop, while also being
hard to navigate profitably. Works on a short term basis, especially
with the tax dances acquisitions allow the accountants, but as the hot
shot greed merchants discovered in the '80s, it ain't the true hot set
up for long term profitability. By that time, maybe more of the MBAs
who are bored with tools but in love with money will have filtered
through the system and gotten fired for their idiocies (sure, bet on
it).

Kinda like the Harley Davidson take over by AMC, debacle. Well we can keep
our fingers crossed. I just can't imagine only 2 or 3 tool manufactures.
Once again choice will be a premium. What happened to democracy when it
comes to tools?

Do you think any of these Corporate Pinheads read these POSTS?
--
"you can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

foggytown wrote:

So what I think I'm hearing is that a cordless drill can be considered
a "consumable". Buy a cheap-ish one that works and replace it when it
gives up.

FoggyTown


In which case, considerations of ergonomics become more important and
you want a drill that won't give you callouses and isn't annoyingly
bulky or heavy for the kind of work you do.

"evodawg" wrote in message
news:C60jf.8208$KZ2.2752@trnddc05...
Charlie Self wrote:

Kinda like the Harley Davidson take over by AMC, debacle. Well we can keep
our fingers crossed. I just can't imagine only 2 or 3 tool manufactures.
Once again choice will be a premium. What happened to democracy when it
comes to tools?


If you don't know, Harley Davidson and AMC split many years ago.
B&D is and has been a very successful company and perhaps they will do a
better job than Pentair did. I remember all the squabble and lousy service
when PC and Delta merged. This buying and selling of these major brand
tools is not a first time thing and the quality of their tools has been
worse since that merger IMHO.

foggytown wrote:
So what I think I'm hearing is that a cordless drill can be considered
a "consumable". Buy a cheap-ish one that works and replace it when it
gives up.

Negative, unless you have deep pockets.

Cordless drills, like everything else, start the march to the junk yard
the day they come out of the box.

Better tools have a longer journey.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Negative, unless you have deep pockets.

Cordless drills, like everything else, start the march to the junk yard
the day they come out of the box.

Better tools have a longer journey.

Sure, but when you can get a cheap 18V drill for $30, and a good one is
$200, and a replacement battery is somewhere around $75...

I own a Porter-Cable cordless and would probably buy a better-quality
one again. But it's because I think it just feels better and is
probably tougher, not because I think it's any cheaper.

Chris

Leon wrote:


"evodawg" wrote in message
news:C60jf.8208$KZ2.2752@trnddc05...
Charlie Self wrote:

Kinda like the Harley Davidson take over by AMC, debacle. Well we can
keep our fingers crossed. I just can't imagine only 2 or 3 tool
manufactures. Once again choice will be a premium. What happened to
democracy when it comes to tools?


If you don't know, Harley Davidson and AMC split many years ago.
B&D is and has been a very successful company and perhaps they will do a
better job than Pentair did. I remember all the squabble and lousy
service
when PC and Delta merged. This buying and selling of these major brand
tools is not a first time thing and the quality of their tools has been
worse since that merger IMHO.

Yes I did know that since I have owned 4 since the split or debacle as I put
it.
--
"you can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

Lew Hodgett wrote:

foggytown wrote:
So what I think I'm hearing is that a cordless drill can be considered
a "consumable". Buy a cheap-ish one that works and replace it when it
gives up.

Negative, unless you have deep pockets.

Cordless drills, like everything else, start the march to the junk yard
the day they come out of the box.

Better tools have a longer journey.

Lew

Yes but when you use them everyday like I do. I don't have the time to take
the march to the store. My PC 14.4 has been a loyal tool for over 3 years
and I don't have a bad thing to say about it. I'm not sure I will be able
to say the same if I ever have to replace it.
--
"you can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...

Why do you have my name in there? I wrote nothing at all about Hardly
Ableson & Co.

LOL. I don't know Charlie. It's a mystery to me. That said, I can find a
bug with software almost in the blink of an eye.
Looking back, your name was in the top of the post that I responded to. I
was negligent in removing your name. Sorry.

"evodawg" wrote in message
news:LWajf.10$n84.2@trnddc06...

Yes I did know that since I have owned 4 since the split or debacle as I
put
it.


I owned a 73 XLCH for 3 or 4 years. I like to refer to it as the Manual
Sportster. It left me stranded 4 or 5 times and I finally traced the
problem down to a bad connection between the coil wire and its insulated
connector. I went back to Yamaha after that.

I use a dewalt 18 v and have no complaints, lots of power and the
batteries last a for a fair time before needing recharging. I looked at the
24v outfits and found them on the heavy side to be packing around all day so
the 18v works for me, a friend has a 14 volt unit, after using my 18 v for
the day he went out and bought an 18 v dewalt, I think the one he had was
on its last legs anyway, not pushing dewalt it is just what I have . I
think any of the good quality cordless drills will do a good job, the choice
of 18v or 24 is a personal choice and perhaps depends on what type of work
your planning on doing with it.
If it is just for occasional use there are lots of low cost units out
there with a guarantee that might work for you, But I think the 18v is still
a good choice,


"foggytown" wrote in message
ups.com...
What does increased volt rating (say 18 as opposed to 12) offer and
what is the advantage of a higher Ah rating on the battery? I would
have thought that a higher-rated voltage (like 24) would be preferable
to lower but seems like some 14 volt models are rated better. Aside
from the obvious "would you rather have a DeWalt or a Ryobi" questions,
what are the considerations?

FoggyTown