Two years ago I bought a PennState 1.5hp single bag DC. It has been a real
disapppointment. It is okay right after I clean the bag out, but as soon as
I use it the air flow goes down quickly. I got it because I am real short
on space.
Well, my wife insists I increase my shop 50% (not quite as good as it
sounds, since half of that extra area will be used to store stuff that is
now in the rec room; but still good) so I will have room for something
better. It has a 16a motor, but a small diameter fan unit.

I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it unclogged a big
longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more than what I gain.
I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom (along with
the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.
Should I try to rehab it, or just ebay it and buy a real DC?

Speaking of which, I never use more than one machine at a time. Is a 1.5hp
filter unit adequate, or do I have to go up to a 2hp? I see the cyclones
are getting more popular. For one machine at a time, and not real heavy
use, are they overkill? They seem to move less air than the single stage
unit for the same motor size; is that right? Their virtue is ease of
cleaning?

Toller wrote:

Two years ago I bought a PennState 1.5hp single bag DC. It has been a real
disapppointment. It is okay right after I clean the bag out, but as soon as
I use it the air flow goes down quickly. I got it because I am real short
on space.
Well, my wife insists I increase my shop 50% (not quite as good as it
sounds, since half of that extra area will be used to store stuff that is
now in the rec room; but still good) so I will have room for something
better. It has a 16a motor, but a small diameter fan unit.

I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it unclogged a big
longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more than what I gain.
I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom (along with
the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.
Should I try to rehab it, or just ebay it and buy a real DC?

Speaking of which, I never use more than one machine at a time. Is a 1.5hp
filter unit adequate, or do I have to go up to a 2hp? I see the cyclones
are getting more popular. For one machine at a time, and not real heavy
use, are they overkill? They seem to move less air than the single stage
unit for the same motor size; is that right? Their virtue is ease of
cleaning?


I can't believe you've been getting along at all w/o a separator. I got
one right after buying my DC because the impeller shield would clog up
within moments of using the DC with a thickness planer. I have a 1 mil
bag on top and a plastic bag on the bottom. I can go quite a while
before I lose much suction--that's from the coating of fine dust on the
upper bag. It won't cost you much to at least try a separator. My unit
is also 1.5 HP. 10' hose to separator and 20' to equipment.

dave

Toller (in ) said:

| I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it
| unclogged a big longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more
| than what I gain.
| I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom
| (along with the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.
| Should I try to rehab it, or just ebay it and buy a real DC?

I'm almost embarassed to post this again; but at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html I've posted some pix
of my system with two separators. You might find it interesting to
know that there's never been a need to empty the DC bags. After more
than two years of use they're still (perhaps especially) cleaner on
the inside than the outside...

....and you'd be amazed at the quantity of dust this thing has
captured!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On Mon 24 Oct 2005 07:14:50p, "Morris Dovey" wrote in
:

I'm almost embarassed to post this again; but at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html I've posted some pix
of my system with two separators.

Don't be. That's a good system. :-)

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Toller (in ) said:

| I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it
| unclogged a big longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more
| than what I gain.
| I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom
| (along with the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.
| Should I try to rehab it, or just ebay it and buy a real DC?

I'm almost embarassed to post this again; but at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html I've posted some pix
of my system with two separators. You might find it interesting to
know that there's never been a need to empty the DC bags. After more
than two years of use they're still (perhaps especially) cleaner on
the inside than the outside...

You still get good suction despite two separators? I thought they were
supposed to kill air flow.

Toller (in ) said:

| "Morris Dovey" wrote in message
| ...
|| Toller (in ) said:
||
||| I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it
||| unclogged a big longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more
||| than what I gain.
||| I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom
||| (along with the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.
||| Should I try to rehab it, or just ebay it and buy a real DC?
||
|| I'm almost embarassed to post this again; but at
|| http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html I've posted some
|| pix of my system with two separators. You might find it
|| interesting to know that there's never been a need to empty the DC
|| bags. After more than two years of use they're still (perhaps
|| especially) cleaner on the inside than the outside...
||
| You still get good suction despite two separators? I thought they
| were supposed to kill air flow.

As far as I can tell, there's plenty of suction - enough to keep the
shop air crystal clear when I run the 5HP spindle at 18K RPM at
90"/min with a 1/2" bit thru MDF for several hours straight in a
single cutting "session".

I probably should add that this is my first ever dust collection
system and that what I show on the web page is the only configuration
I've ever used - and that the whole thing serves only a single tool.
There is about 25' of 4" hose in all; and I've taken care to
minimize/eliminate leakage everywhere.

If I use a long (more than 3") bit to make shallow cuts in material
that produces chips (as opposed to material (like MDF or Extira) that
produces powder, the large gap between the material and the "shoe"
allows /some/ chips to be "thrown" and escape collection. I can
eliminate this problem by using bits with shorter cutting edge lengths
(my spindle's ER-25 collet allows "hiding" as much shank as I want);
but so long as the dust is being sucked up, I don't really mind
brushing or vacuuming up a small amount of large-granule waste.

More suction is always better. I don't have particulary good
collection results when I use long down-spiral bits - but I don't
think that even doubling the suction would cure that problem.

My dream would be a 30 HP combined vacuum hold-down and dust
collection system; but even if there is such a critter, I'm fairly
certain I wouldn't be able to justify the cost.

The only real problem I've had with the current system has been
remembering to turn the DC on *before* the cutting starts. :-(

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:05:49 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Two years ago I bought a PennState 1.5hp single bag DC. It has been a real
disapppointment. It is okay right after I clean the bag out, but as soon as
I use it the air flow goes down quickly. I got it because I am real short
on space.
Well, my wife insists I increase my shop 50% (not quite as good as it
sounds, since half of that extra area will be used to store stuff that is
now in the rec room; but still good) so I will have room for something
better. It has a 16a motor, but a small diameter fan unit.

I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it unclogged a big
longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more than what I gain.
I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom (along with
the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.
Should I try to rehab it, or just ebay it and buy a real DC?

Speaking of which, I never use more than one machine at a time. Is a 1.5hp
filter unit adequate, or do I have to go up to a 2hp? I see the cyclones
are getting more popular. For one machine at a time, and not real heavy
use, are they overkill? They seem to move less air than the single stage
unit for the same motor size; is that right? Their virtue is ease of
cleaning?

Try building a separator before you do any upgrades to the DC itself...

I have the Harbor fright 2 hp DC with a shop built cyclone can...
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/shop.htm

It didn't seem to lose any collection ability, though on paper it must have...
I've had the DC for almost a year now and have NEVER emptied either bag...
I check them often, but with the DC off, the top bag has little or no contents
and the lower bag has maybe an inch of stuff in the bottom of the bag.. I'm VERY
happy with it..

Another reason that I'd suggest a separator is from what I learned here in the
wRECk:
unlike a shop vac, where the filter is before the motor, the first thing a chunk
of wood or a screw encounters when entering the DC is the IMPELLER... that's not
a good thing... I'd rather hear it "clunk" into the trash can on the cyclone
than hit the blade.. YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:05:49 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Two years ago I bought a PennState 1.5hp single bag DC. It has been a
real
disapppointment. It is okay right after I clean the bag out, but as soon
as
I use it the air flow goes down quickly. I got it because I am real short
on space.
Well, my wife insists I increase my shop 50% (not quite as good as it
sounds, since half of that extra area will be used to store stuff that is
now in the rec room; but still good) so I will have room for something
better. It has a 16a motor, but a small diameter fan unit.

I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it unclogged a big
longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more than what I gain.
I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom (along
with
the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.
Should I try to rehab it, or just ebay it and buy a real DC?

Speaking of which, I never use more than one machine at a time. Is a
1.5hp
filter unit adequate, or do I have to go up to a 2hp? I see the cyclones
are getting more popular. For one machine at a time, and not real heavy
use, are they overkill? They seem to move less air than the single stage
unit for the same motor size; is that right? Their virtue is ease of
cleaning?

Try building a separator before you do any upgrades to the DC itself...

I have the Harbor fright 2 hp DC with a shop built cyclone can...
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/shop.htm

It didn't seem to lose any collection ability, though on paper it must
have...
I've had the DC for almost a year now and have NEVER emptied either bag...
I check them often, but with the DC off, the top bag has little or no
contents
and the lower bag has maybe an inch of stuff in the bottom of the bag..
I'm VERY
happy with it..

Where did you buy the separator? They might not all be as good as yours.
Thanks.

From my personal experience.... Dust Control means DUST Control. Unless
you have a monster unit, I wouldn't expect it to suck up too many planer
chips.
I have a 2 HP unit and a garbage can collector... the book I read says to
keep the distance between the DC and the garbage can as short as possible
due to power loss.
"Toller" wrote in message
...
Two years ago I bought a PennState 1.5hp single bag DC. It has been a
real disapppointment. It is okay right after I clean the bag out, but as
soon as I use it the air flow goes down quickly. I got it because I am
real short on space.
Well, my wife insists I increase my shop 50% (not quite as good as it
sounds, since half of that extra area will be used to store stuff that is
now in the rec room; but still good) so I will have room for something
better. It has a 16a motor, but a small diameter fan unit.

I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it unclogged a big
longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more than what I gain.
I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom (along
with the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.
Should I try to rehab it, or just ebay it and buy a real DC?

Speaking of which, I never use more than one machine at a time. Is a
1.5hp filter unit adequate, or do I have to go up to a 2hp? I see the
cyclones are getting more popular. For one machine at a time, and not
real heavy use, are they overkill? They seem to move less air than the
single stage unit for the same motor size; is that right? Their virtue is
ease of cleaning?

TomWoodman wrote:

From my personal experience.... Dust Control means DUST Control. Unless
you have a monster unit, I wouldn't expect it to suck up too many planer
chips.
I have a 2 HP unit and a garbage can collector... the book I read says to
keep the distance between the DC and the garbage can as short as possible
due to power loss.
"Toller" wrote in message
...



I don't have a "monster unit", yet it takes in every chip my planer or
jointer throw at it. I don't really understand what makes you think a
DC won't pick up chips.

Dave

Maybe my runs are too long.

"David" wrote in message
...
TomWoodman wrote:

From my personal experience.... Dust Control means DUST Control.
Unless you have a monster unit, I wouldn't expect it to suck up too many
planer chips.
I have a 2 HP unit and a garbage can collector... the book I read says to
keep the distance between the DC and the garbage can as short as possible
due to power loss.
"Toller" wrote in message
...



I don't have a "monster unit", yet it takes in every chip my planer or
jointer throw at it. I don't really understand what makes you think a DC
won't pick up chips.

Dave

TomWoodman wrote:

....Top posting corrected...

"David" wrote in message
...
TomWoodman wrote:

From my personal experience.... Dust Control means DUST Control.
Unless you have a monster unit, I wouldn't expect it to suck up too many
planer chips.
I have a 2 HP unit and a garbage can collector... the book I read says to
keep the distance between the DC and the garbage can as short as possible
due to power loss.
"Toller" wrote in message
...



I don't have a "monster unit", yet it takes in every chip my planer or
jointer throw at it. I don't really understand what makes you think a DC
won't pick up chips.

Maybe my runs are too long.


Or you're using corrugated flex pipe over long runs? If you're cfm is
marginal to start with, that'll kill it quick...

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:59:56 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

Try building a separator before you do any upgrades to the DC itself...

I have the Harbor fright 2 hp DC with a shop built cyclone can...
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/shop.htm

It didn't seem to lose any collection ability, though on paper it must
have...
I've had the DC for almost a year now and have NEVER emptied either bag...
I check them often, but with the DC off, the top bag has little or no
contents
and the lower bag has maybe an inch of stuff in the bottom of the bag..
I'm VERY
happy with it..

Where did you buy the separator? They might not all be as good as yours.
Thanks.

You didn't look at that link, did you? *g*

My separator is a 55 gallon fiber drum with a plywood top a dust collection hood
and a plastic 4" elbow... total cost including a piece of plywood for the lid
was maybe $20

Oh.. I also took the "Y" off of the dust collector and hooked the separator
directly to the DC... moved the "Y" to the intake of the separator so I could
use it with hoses to 2 areas, with blast gates.. YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:20:39 -0700, David wrote:

TomWoodman wrote:

From my personal experience.... Dust Control means DUST Control. Unless
you have a monster unit, I wouldn't expect it to suck up too many planer
chips.
I have a 2 HP unit and a garbage can collector... the book I read says to
keep the distance between the DC and the garbage can as short as possible
due to power loss.
"Toller" wrote in message
...



I don't have a "monster unit", yet it takes in every chip my planer or
jointer throw at it. I don't really understand what makes you think a
DC won't pick up chips.

Dave

My guess (no planer or jointer yet) is that it would depend on the size of the
chips and the type of hose or pipe the DC system uses.. large chips through a
hose with spiral ridges inside is probably going to clog a lot...

I know that I don't try to use the DC on the lathe unless I'm sanding... long,
curly shavings and 4" plastic hose are asking for constant clogs... easier to
sweep up shavings as I go and let the DC get dust and chips.. YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Toller" wrote in
:



Two years ago I bought a PennState 1.5hp single bag DC. It has been a
real disapppointment. It is okay right after I clean the bag out, but
as soon as I use it the air flow goes down quickly. I got it because
I am real short on space.
Well, my wife insists I increase my shop 50% (not quite as good as it
sounds, since half of that extra area will be used to store stuff that
is now in the rec room; but still good) so I will have room for
something better. It has a 16a motor, but a small diameter fan unit.

Ok take this all with a 50# Salt Lick.

But when I was researching DC's the Penn State units had good reputations
for the home shops.

Let's see if there's something specific about your setup?

You say "one bag" - does that mean the upper is a filter cartridge? Or do
you have two bags: upper and lower (chip collector)?

If the upper is a filter - then from my reading, many folks complain that
their "suction" (flow) drops more quickly than they had hoped. A few
remark that they spin the flappers quite frequently.

If you have bags on both ends, upper and lower - what kind of bags are
they? How big are they? When I recently bought my Delta 1.5HP unit, it
came with 30u bags. I wanted to go with a plastic chip collector - since
there's zero flow through plastic, I had to oversize the upper to keep
backpressure down and flow up.


What's your ducting look like? 4" Flex hose, especially *cheap* flex,
also reduces flow. Pipe diameter, number of 90* fittings, etc. all can
have an adverse impact on flow.

My shop is small, but even so I arranged things to keep my total DC run
to about 25' of 4" S&D pipe with one 90* bend. My longest run of 4" flex
is about 7'.



I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it unclogged a
big longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more than what I
gain. I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom
(along with the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.

Lots'a folks have separators and swear by them. A few report loss of
flow, but many do not.

I simply view a separator as meaning I don't have to empty the collection
bag as often.

I don't have one and now won't get one after an email exchange with Lee
Valley about using one with my DW735 planer.



Speaking of which, I never use more than one machine at a time. Is a
1.5hp filter unit adequate, or do I have to go up to a 2hp?

Nor do I - and I'm very, very happy with my 1.5HP. Again - so many other
things factor in, especially about how you have it ducted.

Included - as you noted - impeller size, inlet port restrictions, etc.

I see the cyclones are getting more popular. For one machine at a
time, and not
real heavy use, are they overkill? They seem to move less air than
the single stage unit for the same motor size; is that right? Their
virtue is ease of cleaning?


Again - I'm only looking at DC systems from three perspectives: (1) their
ability to keep my shop clean (2) reducing healh risks and (3) budget.

A cyclone wasn't the right choice for me.
It's certainly the right choice for many.

"David" wrote in message
...
Toller wrote:

Two years ago I bought a PennState 1.5hp single bag DC. It has been a
real
disapppointment. It is okay right after I clean the bag out, but as
soon as
I use it the air flow goes down quickly. I got it because I am real
short
on space.
Well, my wife insists I increase my shop 50% (not quite as good as it
sounds, since half of that extra area will be used to store stuff that
is
now in the rec room; but still good) so I will have room for something
better. It has a 16a motor, but a small diameter fan unit.

I could add one of those garbage can separators to keep it unclogged a
big
longer, but I suspect the loss power will be more than what I gain.
I could replace the bag with a filter, with a can at the bottom (along
with
the garbage can separator) but that is expensive.
Should I try to rehab it, or just ebay it and buy a real DC?

Speaking of which, I never use more than one machine at a time. Is a
1.5hp
filter unit adequate, or do I have to go up to a 2hp? I see the
cyclones
are getting more popular. For one machine at a time, and not real heavy
use, are they overkill? They seem to move less air than the single
stage
unit for the same motor size; is that right? Their virtue is ease of
cleaning?


I can't believe you've been getting along at all w/o a separator. I got
one right after buying my DC because the impeller shield would clog up
within moments of using the DC with a thickness planer. I have a 1 mil
bag on top and a plastic bag on the bottom. I can go quite a while
before I lose much suction--that's from the coating of fine dust on the
upper bag. It won't cost you much to at least try a separator. My unit
is also 1.5 HP. 10' hose to separator and 20' to equipment.

dave

I'm with Dave. The separator is a must. If you don't want to spend the $$
on
a prefab you can cobble one together with PVC or S&W fittings. I scavanged
from a business a 30 gal steel drum with a banded lid and put the fittings
thru
the lid. Cheap and effective.