Newbie here.

A few years ago, I had the misfortune (read: ignorance) to buy a Delta
36-600 table saw. Paid $400. It worked fine for a couple of years,
but burnt brushes regularly. Then, new brushes wouldn't do the job and
I turned it over to see what was what. Lots of flame with new brushes
lasting a few minutes, and then nothing.

Dead saw. Carcass picking time. Removed motor from pot-metal trunion.
Motor is a one piece affair with a separate lay shaft bearing the blade,
reduction driven by a belt. It finally took a large bearing press to
remove the cogged belt wheel from the motor itself! That, after calling
around and being told that the canonical fix was to load saw into truck
and remove to nearest dump.

Well, turned the commutator on a lathe and reinstalled. Unfortunately,
I managed to upset one of the bearings in the lay shaft, and it had a
tight spot in the turn I could not manage to adjust out. Saw is back
together, runs with one hell of a loud knock!

I figure it'll die squarely in the middle of the next project, which is
yet to begin. So I'm now looking for a "real" table saw So, now I'm
reading here, there and everywhere to see what that saw should be. I've
got a few items of info, I'd like to check here.

1) Catering to the insanity of expecting to save enough money for "the
best", I took a look at Powermatic. Well, Jet bought Powermatic a few
years ago, vowing to touch nary a hair on the Golden Head. Latest read
report indicates that Powermatic contractor saws appear to authenticate
the myth of beer cans used by a hundred monkeys from the far east.
Tales of parts aligned large fractions of an inch out of true, etc, etc.
Scratch Powermatic.

2) Local Home Depot stocks Ridgid. Ridgid had an excellent rep, but
when made by Emerson Tool. Ridgid now owned by Ryobi. Scratch Ridgid.

3) High profile brand name saws... well, yeah, but that's way too close
to the insanity of 1).

4) Looked at Grizzley. Seems okay, but no recent great shakes. Looked
at General International, and it would seem I found a winner. The
General International contractor saws come in both right and left tilt.
Consumer Report (their webpage) cites the left tilt model as the one to
buy as of April this year.

Comments on any of this?

Thanks,

Longfellow

Something wrong with JET/DeWalt 2HP?

Chuck

Comments on any of this?

Longfellow wrote:

Newbie here.

....snip long ramble on saw selection...

Comments on any of this?

Firstly, you seem to be comparing wide range here...what are your use
criteria first, budget lmitations second?

FWW had a review not long ago of cabinet saws and I believe it was FHB
that had one on contractor saws...

I, of course, say you can't go wrong w/ the PM66, but that's me...

If it was me, I'd be looking at the GI (General International) or Delta
hybrid saws. Primarily for better dust collection, and no motor hanging out
the back. I've got the GI 50-185 saw (left tilt contractor), and I'm pretty
happy with it even if I don't work it that hard. But in the limited space
in my garage, that motor hanging out the back is kind of frustrating. And
as I understand it, the cost is pretty close.

Clint

"Longfellow" wrote in message
...
Newbie here.

A few years ago, I had the misfortune (read: ignorance) to buy a Delta
36-600 table saw. Paid $400. It worked fine for a couple of years,
but burnt brushes regularly. Then, new brushes wouldn't do the job and
I turned it over to see what was what. Lots of flame with new brushes
lasting a few minutes, and then nothing.

Dead saw. Carcass picking time. Removed motor from pot-metal trunion.
Motor is a one piece affair with a separate lay shaft bearing the blade,
reduction driven by a belt. It finally took a large bearing press to
remove the cogged belt wheel from the motor itself! That, after calling
around and being told that the canonical fix was to load saw into truck
and remove to nearest dump.

Well, turned the commutator on a lathe and reinstalled. Unfortunately,
I managed to upset one of the bearings in the lay shaft, and it had a
tight spot in the turn I could not manage to adjust out. Saw is back
together, runs with one hell of a loud knock!

I figure it'll die squarely in the middle of the next project, which is
yet to begin. So I'm now looking for a "real" table saw So, now I'm
reading here, there and everywhere to see what that saw should be. I've
got a few items of info, I'd like to check here.

1) Catering to the insanity of expecting to save enough money for "the
best", I took a look at Powermatic. Well, Jet bought Powermatic a few
years ago, vowing to touch nary a hair on the Golden Head. Latest read
report indicates that Powermatic contractor saws appear to authenticate
the myth of beer cans used by a hundred monkeys from the far east.
Tales of parts aligned large fractions of an inch out of true, etc, etc.
Scratch Powermatic.

2) Local Home Depot stocks Ridgid. Ridgid had an excellent rep, but
when made by Emerson Tool. Ridgid now owned by Ryobi. Scratch Ridgid.

3) High profile brand name saws... well, yeah, but that's way too close
to the insanity of 1).

4) Looked at Grizzley. Seems okay, but no recent great shakes. Looked
at General International, and it would seem I found a winner. The
General International contractor saws come in both right and left tilt.
Consumer Report (their webpage) cites the left tilt model as the one to
buy as of April this year.

Comments on any of this?

Thanks,

Longfellow

Cannot comment on Grizzly contractor's saws; but I have owned a 1023S
cabinet saw for nearly four years. No complaints - love the machine.

My son-in-law owns: one of the big Griz surface planers, a radial drill
press and the G-0500 jointer. Good luck with all so far.

RonB

On 2005-07-06, CNT wrote:
Something wrong with JET/DeWalt 2HP?

Chuck

Dunno. Will look into them. Thanks.

Longfellow.

On 2005-07-06, Duane Bozarth wrote:
Firstly, you seem to be comparing wide range here...what are your use
criteria first, budget lmitations second?

Home use. Don't need a saw worth thousands, or a cabinet saw, for that
matter. A good contractor saw seems about right, but now I know better
than to get one with a universal motor (I think...). I'm thinking
somewhere between $500US and $700US should be reasonable.

FWW had a review not long ago of cabinet saws and I believe it was FHB
that had one on contractor saws...

FHB?

I, of course, say you can't go wrong w/ the PM66, but that's me...

Ah yes, presumably pre-Jet?

Thanks,

Longfellow

On 2005-07-06, Clint wrote:
If it was me, I'd be looking at the GI (General International) or Delta
hybrid saws. Primarily for better dust collection, and no motor hanging out
the back. I've got the GI 50-185 saw (left tilt contractor), and I'm pretty
happy with it even if I don't work it that hard. But in the limited space
in my garage, that motor hanging out the back is kind of frustrating. And
as I understand it, the cost is pretty close.

Clint

Thanks for this! I completely missed the idea of the hybrid saw, which
I gather is basically a light-weight cabinet saw: Good for dust
collection and footprint, and not that much more expensive than the
contractor saws.

I'll look into this!

Thanks again,

Longfellow

On 2005-07-06, RonB wrote:
Cannot comment on Grizzly contractor's saws; but I have owned a 1023S
cabinet saw for nearly four years. No complaints - love the machine.

My son-in-law owns: one of the big Griz surface planers, a radial drill
press and the G-0500 jointer. Good luck with all so far.

RonB

Thanks for this. I've looked at Grizzly and liked what I saw

Longfellow

Longfellow wrote:

On 2005-07-06, Duane Bozarth wrote:
Firstly, you seem to be comparing wide range here...what are your use
criteria first, budget lmitations second?

Home use. Don't need a saw worth thousands, or a cabinet saw, for that
matter. A good contractor saw seems about right, but now I know better
than to get one with a universal motor (I think...). I'm thinking
somewhere between $500US and $700US should be reasonable.

I don't have specific recommendations for them, sorry. I'll look and
see if I can find that review and see who came out on top in theirs...

FWW had a review not long ago of cabinet saws and I believe it was FHB
that had one on contractor saws...

FHB?

Fine Homebuilding, companion to FWW...

I, of course, say you can't go wrong w/ the PM66, but that's me...

Ah yes, presumably pre-Jet?


Industrial line is still good...

Here's my story. Bought a Jet Contractor saw. Works great. I've built
a number of pretty nice things with it and never had a single problem with
it. It is the JWTS-10 I believe. I decided to upgrade to a cabinet saw
and bought the Grizzly 1023SL. I'm more than happy with that one as well.
True, it's a full cabinet saw but it's price is virtually unbeatable. I
also have heard good things about the GI stuff but alas, have no experience
with them. I had planned to sell the Jet once I had the Grizzly up and
running. 7 months later and I've still got the Jet (the Grizzly works
great....I just don't want to give up the Jet!). So that's really all I
can add. Ultimately, you have to decide just how big and heavy a saw you
want. Generally, the heavier, stronger units will give less vibration than
the contractor versions but for all but the diehards, a contractor saw works
pretty well.
Cheers and let us know what you decide.
cc

"Longfellow" wrote in message
...
Newbie here.

A few years ago, I had the misfortune (read: ignorance) to buy a Delta
36-600 table saw. Paid $400. It worked fine for a couple of years,
but burnt brushes regularly. Then, new brushes wouldn't do the job and
I turned it over to see what was what. Lots of flame with new brushes
lasting a few minutes, and then nothing.

Dead saw. Carcass picking time. Removed motor from pot-metal trunion.
Motor is a one piece affair with a separate lay shaft bearing the blade,
reduction driven by a belt. It finally took a large bearing press to
remove the cogged belt wheel from the motor itself! That, after calling
around and being told that the canonical fix was to load saw into truck
and remove to nearest dump.

Well, turned the commutator on a lathe and reinstalled. Unfortunately,
I managed to upset one of the bearings in the lay shaft, and it had a
tight spot in the turn I could not manage to adjust out. Saw is back
together, runs with one hell of a loud knock!

I figure it'll die squarely in the middle of the next project, which is
yet to begin. So I'm now looking for a "real" table saw So, now I'm
reading here, there and everywhere to see what that saw should be. I've
got a few items of info, I'd like to check here.

1) Catering to the insanity of expecting to save enough money for "the
best", I took a look at Powermatic. Well, Jet bought Powermatic a few
years ago, vowing to touch nary a hair on the Golden Head. Latest read
report indicates that Powermatic contractor saws appear to authenticate
the myth of beer cans used by a hundred monkeys from the far east.
Tales of parts aligned large fractions of an inch out of true, etc, etc.
Scratch Powermatic.

2) Local Home Depot stocks Ridgid. Ridgid had an excellent rep, but
when made by Emerson Tool. Ridgid now owned by Ryobi. Scratch Ridgid.

3) High profile brand name saws... well, yeah, but that's way too close
to the insanity of 1).

4) Looked at Grizzley. Seems okay, but no recent great shakes. Looked
at General International, and it would seem I found a winner. The
General International contractor saws come in both right and left tilt.
Consumer Report (their webpage) cites the left tilt model as the one to
buy as of April this year.

Comments on any of this?

Thanks,

Longfellow

Longfellow - First of all, thanks to responding to those that are offering
you advice. Nothing frustrates me more than someone asking a question, I or
someone else responds with some great info, and perhaps a follow-up
question, and then silence. Nothing, like they fell off the face of the
earth.

Anyway - I was recently in the same boat as you. I was looking for a 'real'
tablesaw after dealing with a POS craftsman 1956 model. (Its all that would
fit in my old, so called, shop). Anyway - I moved and I had the room for a
proper shop and figure I needed a proper saw.

I looked around at various things, read reviews, read old posts here, etc. I
came to the conclusion that, dollar for dollar, feature for feature, the
Grizzly 1023S was a good choice. It was similarly priced to the big named
contractor saws yet had some features similar to the unisaws, PM66s, and
others yet was 1/3 the price.

Griz raised their prices a bit recently but they do also have sales. Check
it out. http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...mnumber=G1023S
ITS ON SALE TODAY

Good luck

-B

"Longfellow" wrote in message
...
Newbie here.

A few years ago, I had the misfortune (read: ignorance) to buy a Delta
36-600 table saw. Paid $400. It worked fine for a couple of years,
but burnt brushes regularly. Then, new brushes wouldn't do the job and
I turned it over to see what was what. Lots of flame with new brushes
lasting a few minutes, and then nothing.

Dead saw. Carcass picking time. Removed motor from pot-metal trunion.
Motor is a one piece affair with a separate lay shaft bearing the blade,
reduction driven by a belt. It finally took a large bearing press to
remove the cogged belt wheel from the motor itself! That, after calling
around and being told that the canonical fix was to load saw into truck
and remove to nearest dump.

Well, turned the commutator on a lathe and reinstalled. Unfortunately,
I managed to upset one of the bearings in the lay shaft, and it had a
tight spot in the turn I could not manage to adjust out. Saw is back
together, runs with one hell of a loud knock!

I figure it'll die squarely in the middle of the next project, which is
yet to begin. So I'm now looking for a "real" table saw So, now I'm
reading here, there and everywhere to see what that saw should be. I've
got a few items of info, I'd like to check here.

1) Catering to the insanity of expecting to save enough money for "the
best", I took a look at Powermatic. Well, Jet bought Powermatic a few
years ago, vowing to touch nary a hair on the Golden Head. Latest read
report indicates that Powermatic contractor saws appear to authenticate
the myth of beer cans used by a hundred monkeys from the far east.
Tales of parts aligned large fractions of an inch out of true, etc, etc.
Scratch Powermatic.

2) Local Home Depot stocks Ridgid. Ridgid had an excellent rep, but
when made by Emerson Tool. Ridgid now owned by Ryobi. Scratch Ridgid.

3) High profile brand name saws... well, yeah, but that's way too close
to the insanity of 1).

4) Looked at Grizzley. Seems okay, but no recent great shakes. Looked
at General International, and it would seem I found a winner. The
General International contractor saws come in both right and left tilt.
Consumer Report (their webpage) cites the left tilt model as the one to
buy as of April this year.

Comments on any of this?

Thanks,

Longfellow

"Longfellow" wrote in message
...
On 2005-07-06, RonB wrote:
Cannot comment on Grizzly contractor's saws; but I have owned a 1023S
cabinet saw for nearly four years. No complaints - love the machine.

My son-in-law owns: one of the big Griz surface planers, a radial drill
press and the G-0500 jointer. Good luck with all so far.

RonB

Thanks for this. I've looked at Grizzly and liked what I saw

I've got one too. Their prices have gone up, but the 1023 used to be at
about the top of your price range. Very solid and trouble free so far.

-j

If it is of help . . I just bought a Delta 36-507X with a Biesemeyer 30"
commercial fence two months ago. ($995.00). It's the last of the American
Made Contractors saws by Delta. My dealer had bought a load of them before
they went Chinese . . . Mine says "Proudly Made In America" . . . Reason I
am telling you this is because he told me just about all the Delta
Industrial Dealers were encouraged to do the same . . . So you might can
find one. Delta will give you a list if you call . . . . Call them and ask
where they were made . . By the way, the saw is very well built and aligned
true on the money out of the box with a (5) year warranty . . .My neighbor
is a millwright & helped me check the trueness.

Steve

"Longfellow" wrote in message
...
Newbie here.

A few years ago, I had the misfortune (read: ignorance) to buy a Delta
36-600 table saw. Paid $400. It worked fine for a couple of years,
but burnt brushes regularly. Then, new brushes wouldn't do the job and
I turned it over to see what was what. Lots of flame with new brushes
lasting a few minutes, and then nothing.

Dead saw. Carcass picking time. Removed motor from pot-metal trunion.
Motor is a one piece affair with a separate lay shaft bearing the blade,
reduction driven by a belt. It finally took a large bearing press to
remove the cogged belt wheel from the motor itself! That, after calling
around and being told that the canonical fix was to load saw into truck
and remove to nearest dump.

Well, turned the commutator on a lathe and reinstalled. Unfortunately,
I managed to upset one of the bearings in the lay shaft, and it had a
tight spot in the turn I could not manage to adjust out. Saw is back
together, runs with one hell of a loud knock!

I figure it'll die squarely in the middle of the next project, which is
yet to begin. So I'm now looking for a "real" table saw So, now I'm
reading here, there and everywhere to see what that saw should be. I've
got a few items of info, I'd like to check here.

1) Catering to the insanity of expecting to save enough money for "the
best", I took a look at Powermatic. Well, Jet bought Powermatic a few
years ago, vowing to touch nary a hair on the Golden Head. Latest read
report indicates that Powermatic contractor saws appear to authenticate
the myth of beer cans used by a hundred monkeys from the far east.
Tales of parts aligned large fractions of an inch out of true, etc, etc.
Scratch Powermatic.

2) Local Home Depot stocks Ridgid. Ridgid had an excellent rep, but
when made by Emerson Tool. Ridgid now owned by Ryobi. Scratch Ridgid.

3) High profile brand name saws... well, yeah, but that's way too close
to the insanity of 1).

4) Looked at Grizzley. Seems okay, but no recent great shakes. Looked
at General International, and it would seem I found a winner. The
General International contractor saws come in both right and left tilt.
Consumer Report (their webpage) cites the left tilt model as the one to
buy as of April this year.

Comments on any of this?

Thanks,

Longfellow

Newbie here.
Comments on any of this?
Thanks,
Longfellow


Comments, sure. Research the old Oliver, and other pro level table saws,
and get the right one. Famous woodworker Sam Maloof uses an old
Clausing. I have semi-access to an Oliver 270D 16" saw, an amazing piece.
With some of this equipment you'd think aliens came and designed them
and designed the manufacturing for them, out of this world quality.
Especially compared to what is being made for common market these days.
http://www.oldwwmachines.com/

Actually never mind, upon reading further I notice you want to spend up to $700...
a saw like I suggest can cost $3000... even if it's 50 years old. Sorry.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:31:51 -0000, Longfellow
wrote:

Newbie here.

A few years ago, I had the misfortune (read: ignorance) to buy a Delta
36-600 table saw. Paid $400. It worked fine for a couple of years,
but burnt brushes regularly. Then, new brushes wouldn't do the job and
I turned it over to see what was what. Lots of flame with new brushes
lasting a few minutes, and then nothing.

==============snip snip snip========
Comments on any of this?

Thanks,

Longfellow
================
I was startled by your comment scratch Powermatic...
and Scratch Ridgid.... I never thought to much of the powermatic
Contractors saw (Artisan model I think) and I do not see any proof
that Jet has downgraded any powermatic product...and I sure can not
hold Emerson responsible for making a product to Sears Specs...garbage
in always means garbage out...

My only advice is to look a several saws...UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL
NOT ... in catalogs... and really look and evaluate the fence on the
saws... Just can not tell you how much a good fence is worth...

Lots of luck...

Bob Griffiths

Pay a little extra and buy a Delta American made contractor saw. New
(there still may be a few left) or used. All American made, Motor
included. Will last a lifetime in hobby use. Can will it to you're
heirs and they will probably still be able to get service parts unless
B & D changes the Delta service philosophy.


On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:31:51 -0000, Longfellow
wrote:

Newbie here.

A few years ago, I had the misfortune (read: ignorance) to buy a Delta
36-600 table saw. Paid $400. It worked fine for a couple of years,
but burnt brushes regularly. Then, new brushes wouldn't do the job and
I turned it over to see what was what. Lots of flame with new brushes
lasting a few minutes, and then nothing.

Dead saw. Carcass picking time. Removed motor from pot-metal trunion.
Motor is a one piece affair with a separate lay shaft bearing the blade,
reduction driven by a belt. It finally took a large bearing press to
remove the cogged belt wheel from the motor itself! That, after calling
around and being told that the canonical fix was to load saw into truck
and remove to nearest dump.

Well, turned the commutator on a lathe and reinstalled. Unfortunately,
I managed to upset one of the bearings in the lay shaft, and it had a
tight spot in the turn I could not manage to adjust out. Saw is back
together, runs with one hell of a loud knock!

I figure it'll die squarely in the middle of the next project, which is
yet to begin. So I'm now looking for a "real" table saw So, now I'm
reading here, there and everywhere to see what that saw should be. I've
got a few items of info, I'd like to check here.

1) Catering to the insanity of expecting to save enough money for "the
best", I took a look at Powermatic. Well, Jet bought Powermatic a few
years ago, vowing to touch nary a hair on the Golden Head. Latest read
report indicates that Powermatic contractor saws appear to authenticate
the myth of beer cans used by a hundred monkeys from the far east.
Tales of parts aligned large fractions of an inch out of true, etc, etc.
Scratch Powermatic.

2) Local Home Depot stocks Ridgid. Ridgid had an excellent rep, but
when made by Emerson Tool. Ridgid now owned by Ryobi. Scratch Ridgid.

3) High profile brand name saws... well, yeah, but that's way too close
to the insanity of 1).

4) Looked at Grizzley. Seems okay, but no recent great shakes. Looked
at General International, and it would seem I found a winner. The
General International contractor saws come in both right and left tilt.
Consumer Report (their webpage) cites the left tilt model as the one to
buy as of April this year.

Comments on any of this?

Thanks,

Longfellow

Longfellow asks for table saw recommendations

Nayayers be damned!
Look at the Craftsman 22114, 22124

Both wonderful hybrid saws.

22124 has Biesemeyer fence and a "full" cabinet.

I have the 22114 and love it.

It is very difficult now days to buy American in tools. I don't care if it's
Delta or not. Even they have some of their stuff built in China. I would be
inclined to buy from Taiwan. at least they are built in an ISO shop.


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
Pay a little extra and buy a Delta American made contractor saw. New
(there still may be a few left) or used. All American made, Motor
included. Will last a lifetime in hobby use. Can will it to you're
heirs and they will probably still be able to get service parts unless
B & D changes the Delta service philosophy.


On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:31:51 -0000, Longfellow
wrote:

Newbie here.

A few years ago, I had the misfortune (read: ignorance) to buy a Delta
36-600 table saw. Paid $400. It worked fine for a couple of years,
but burnt brushes regularly. Then, new brushes wouldn't do the job and
I turned it over to see what was what. Lots of flame with new brushes
lasting a few minutes, and then nothing.

Dead saw. Carcass picking time. Removed motor from pot-metal trunion.
Motor is a one piece affair with a separate lay shaft bearing the blade,
reduction driven by a belt. It finally took a large bearing press to
remove the cogged belt wheel from the motor itself! That, after calling
around and being told that the canonical fix was to load saw into truck
and remove to nearest dump.

Well, turned the commutator on a lathe and reinstalled. Unfortunately,
I managed to upset one of the bearings in the lay shaft, and it had a
tight spot in the turn I could not manage to adjust out. Saw is back
together, runs with one hell of a loud knock!

I figure it'll die squarely in the middle of the next project, which is
yet to begin. So I'm now looking for a "real" table saw So, now I'm
reading here, there and everywhere to see what that saw should be. I've
got a few items of info, I'd like to check here.

1) Catering to the insanity of expecting to save enough money for "the
best", I took a look at Powermatic. Well, Jet bought Powermatic a few
years ago, vowing to touch nary a hair on the Golden Head. Latest read
report indicates that Powermatic contractor saws appear to authenticate
the myth of beer cans used by a hundred monkeys from the far east.
Tales of parts aligned large fractions of an inch out of true, etc, etc.
Scratch Powermatic.

2) Local Home Depot stocks Ridgid. Ridgid had an excellent rep, but
when made by Emerson Tool. Ridgid now owned by Ryobi. Scratch Ridgid.

3) High profile brand name saws... well, yeah, but that's way too close
to the insanity of 1).

4) Looked at Grizzley. Seems okay, but no recent great shakes. Looked
at General International, and it would seem I found a winner. The
General International contractor saws come in both right and left tilt.
Consumer Report (their webpage) cites the left tilt model as the one to
buy as of April this year.

Comments on any of this?

Thanks,

Longfellow

I've got the GI 50-185 saw (left tilt contractor), and I'm pretty
happy with it even if I don't work it that hard.

I too purchased the 50-185. I got mine about 6 months ago from
Bath Industrial Sales in W. Bath, ME rather than mail order so that
I could look at it in person. I needn't have bothered, everything
I read about it here was true: it's the same saw for the same price
as the powermatic, but with larger handwheels, a nicer miter gage,
and a real Bies fence. Looked the same as the Delta and Shopfox
(Grizzly's line to resellers) as well. As he was ringing it up,
the clerk indicated that it was their most popular saw, to the point
where they had trouble keeping it in stock.

It went together perfectly right out of the box, but the instructions
left something to be desired (again, just like everyone else has said).
I have added a ZCI and a WWII and am very happy with it, it's done
everything I've asked of it flawlessly. I love the fence and the
cast iron wings. It easily passes the standing nickel test, so I
have yet to bother getting billet pulleys or a powertwist belt.
I'd definitely make this purchase again.

--Glenn Lyford

I was startled by your comment scratch Powermatic...
and Scratch Ridgid.... I never thought to much of the powermatic
Contractors saw (Artisan model I think) and I do not see any proof
that Jet has downgraded any powermatic product...and I sure can not
hold Emerson responsible for making a product to Sears Specs...garbage
in always means garbage out...

My only advice is to look a several saws...UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL
NOT ... in catalogs... and really look and evaluate the fence on the
saws... Just can not tell you how much a good fence is worth...

Agree with both of Bob's comments. I purchased a Powermatic 54A jointer
about a year ago knowing full and well of its eastern origin. Nevertheless
it is a fine machine that is worthy of the yellow paint job. I did have
some issues with the owners manual but apparently it originates in the good
old USA.

Do Not - I repeat, do not purchase a saw or other major tool based on
catalogue info. Touch the machines you are interested in and use the
internet for users opinions. In addition to Amazon and other suppler sites
there are some sites that offer independent reviews (for example:
http://www.woodworking2.org/toolpage.htm). Granted, some user reviews are
colored by emotion but several of these folks provide good, feature-oriented
reviews. Also, a few suppliers, like Grizzly, will provide the phone
numbers of one or two users in your general area. This gives you the
opportunity to talk with a user and actually view the product if not
available in a store.

Any major toy, ('er tool) purchase is worthy of our research and personal
conclusions. To that end, it is our responsibility to serve ourselves.

RonB

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:34:39 GMT, "Dave" wrote:

It is very difficult now days to buy American in tools.

Difficult and moving rapidly toward impossible.

I don't care if it's
Delta or not. Even they have some of their stuff built in China.

Yes they do.

I would be
inclined to buy from Taiwan. at least they are built in an ISO shop.

Taiwan is better, but not because of ISO. ISO does not insure a
quality product. ISO just says that you have a system that meets
their minimum standards and then they audit you periodically to see if
you follow the system. The system does not have to be relevant to
your product and my experience is that the auditors nit pick things
that are not relevant when they do their audits.

Taiwan is better because they have been doing it longer and we taught
them how to do it. We, (and the Taiwanese broker/owners) will
eventually teach the Chinese how to do it. And you and I will be in a
service and and government transfer payment economy.

"The only way to create true wealth in terms of GDP growth is to take
something that is mined or grown and add value to it" Dr. Green, Dean
of the School of Business, USM, 1975.

Frank




"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .
Pay a little extra and buy a Delta American made contractor saw. New
(there still may be a few left) or used. All American made, Motor
included. Will last a lifetime in hobby use. Can will it to you're
heirs and they will probably still be able to get service parts unless
B & D changes the Delta service philosophy.


On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:31:51 -0000, Longfellow
wrote:

Newbie here.

A few years ago, I had the misfortune (read: ignorance) to buy a Delta
36-600 table saw. Paid $400. It worked fine for a couple of years,
but burnt brushes regularly. Then, new brushes wouldn't do the job and
I turned it over to see what was what. Lots of flame with new brushes
lasting a few minutes, and then nothing.

Dead saw. Carcass picking time. Removed motor from pot-metal trunion.
Motor is a one piece affair with a separate lay shaft bearing the blade,
reduction driven by a belt. It finally took a large bearing press to
remove the cogged belt wheel from the motor itself! That, after calling
around and being told that the canonical fix was to load saw into truck
and remove to nearest dump.

Well, turned the commutator on a lathe and reinstalled. Unfortunately,
I managed to upset one of the bearings in the lay shaft, and it had a
tight spot in the turn I could not manage to adjust out. Saw is back
together, runs with one hell of a loud knock!

I figure it'll die squarely in the middle of the next project, which is
yet to begin. So I'm now looking for a "real" table saw So, now I'm
reading here, there and everywhere to see what that saw should be. I've
got a few items of info, I'd like to check here.

1) Catering to the insanity of expecting to save enough money for "the
best", I took a look at Powermatic. Well, Jet bought Powermatic a few
years ago, vowing to touch nary a hair on the Golden Head. Latest read
report indicates that Powermatic contractor saws appear to authenticate
the myth of beer cans used by a hundred monkeys from the far east.
Tales of parts aligned large fractions of an inch out of true, etc, etc.
Scratch Powermatic.

2) Local Home Depot stocks Ridgid. Ridgid had an excellent rep, but
when made by Emerson Tool. Ridgid now owned by Ryobi. Scratch Ridgid.

3) High profile brand name saws... well, yeah, but that's way too close
to the insanity of 1).

4) Looked at Grizzley. Seems okay, but no recent great shakes. Looked
at General International, and it would seem I found a winner. The
General International contractor saws come in both right and left tilt.
Consumer Report (their webpage) cites the left tilt model as the one to
buy as of April this year.

Comments on any of this?

Thanks,

Longfellow

On 2005-07-06, Longfellow wrote:
snip

Thanks to all who responded!

There are indeed many options out there.

One of the newsgroups in which I lurk is rec.photo.35mm.equipment.
Discussions of various brands of particular gear is both topical and...
well, entertaining, I guess In comparing optics, it was said that
there is more variation within a batch of lenses made by a given
manufacturer than there is between those of the same specs by different
manufactures. The general conclusion seemed to be that the more one
paid, the less chance one had of getting a poorly made item, but that
(except for Leicas, perhaps) the chance was always there.

Perhaps thats fair to say of most stuff, including table saws.

The small manufacturers probably have a better chance of maintaining
real quality because of a lower rate of output means the possibility of
a tighter, more quality oriented, manufacturing staff. Don't know, tho.

Clearly, overseas manufacture can be problematic, but I've seen really
bad stuff made right here in the USA (automobiles come to mind...), so
made American is not a guarantee. Brands owned by foreign manufacturing
conglomerates typically do not represent dependable quality, and I get
the impression this may be the case with most, if not all, traditionally
US table saw manufacturers. Powermatic is long gone, and apparently now
so is Delta.

It occurs to me that brands from other countries, especially smaller
less high profile outfits, are much less likely to have been squeezed
into compliance by a bottom-line oriented ownership. General
Internation may be one of those.

Grizzly, IIUC, does not itself manufacture, but is very picky about the
factories it buys from and demands a relatively high level of quality
control.

I do know that Ryobi has a reputation for shoddy stuff, and so would
expect that to perculate into Ridgid. I've read through several opinion
sites, and found that the most recent opinions of several brands, Ridgid
and Powermatic included, are markedly different from earlier posts.
Talking years he posts from 1999 to 2002/3 versus 2004/5.

If medical expenses hereabouts are reduced as expected, a new table saw
is on the near horizon. I'll post here when (God forbid, not if) that
happens.

Thanks again all!

Longfellow

"Longfellow" wrote in message
...
On 2005-07-06, Longfellow wrote:
snip

Thanks to all who responded!

There are indeed many options out there.

One of the newsgroups in which I lurk is rec.photo.35mm.equipment.
Discussions of various brands of particular gear is both topical and...
well, entertaining, I guess In comparing optics, it was said that
there is more variation within a batch of lenses made by a given
manufacturer than there is between those of the same specs by different
manufactures. The general conclusion seemed to be that the more one
paid, the less chance one had of getting a poorly made item, but that
(except for Leicas, perhaps) the chance was always there.

Perhaps thats fair to say of most stuff, including table saws.

Actually for tablesaws that is not particularly true. The design differences
between saws ARE substantial, and as for achieving tolerances the saws are
adjustable (even the best saw needs its alignment checked after shipping).
For tablesaws you pay more for higher quality materials, higher quality
machining, better electrical components. These contribute to longer life of
the saw, easier adjustment and bragging rights, but you can get the same
output (quality of cut) out of a moderately priced saw as you can from an
expensive one.

On 2005-07-08, J wrote:
"Longfellow" wrote in message
...
On 2005-07-06, Longfellow wrote:
snip

Thanks to all who responded!

There are indeed many options out there.

One of the newsgroups in which I lurk is rec.photo.35mm.equipment.
Discussions of various brands of particular gear is both topical and...
well, entertaining, I guess In comparing optics, it was said that
there is more variation within a batch of lenses made by a given
manufacturer than there is between those of the same specs by different
manufactures. The general conclusion seemed to be that the more one
paid, the less chance one had of getting a poorly made item, but that
(except for Leicas, perhaps) the chance was always there.

Perhaps thats fair to say of most stuff, including table saws.

Actually for tablesaws that is not particularly true. The design differences
between saws ARE substantial, and as for achieving tolerances the saws are
adjustable (even the best saw needs its alignment checked after shipping).
For tablesaws you pay more for higher quality materials, higher quality
machining, better electrical components. These contribute to longer life of
the saw, easier adjustment and bragging rights, but you can get the same
output (quality of cut) out of a moderately priced saw as you can from an
expensive one.

Ah, okay. I should have thought that one through better.

Thanks for setting me straight!

Longfellow

We bought a Jet hybrid. Couldn't be happier.

"Longfellow" wrote in message
...
On 2005-07-06, Clint wrote:
If it was me, I'd be looking at the GI (General International) or Delta
hybrid saws. Primarily for better dust collection, and no motor hanging
out
the back. I've got the GI 50-185 saw (left tilt contractor), and I'm
pretty
happy with it even if I don't work it that hard. But in the limited
space
in my garage, that motor hanging out the back is kind of frustrating.
And
as I understand it, the cost is pretty close.

Clint

Thanks for this! I completely missed the idea of the hybrid saw, which
I gather is basically a light-weight cabinet saw: Good for dust
collection and footprint, and not that much more expensive than the
contractor saws.

I'll look into this!

Thanks again,

Longfellow