I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.

don

On 6 Jun 2005 10:56:46 -0700, "rickluce" wrote:

I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane.

Not "must have", just "will inevitably collect". They're the wire
coathanger of woodwork - leave a dark cupboard alone for long enough and
they'll spontaneously breed in there.

what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for.

As I posted just last week, one hangs outdoors on a string and pulls a
gate shut.

Planing 4x4s?

#5 for planing 5x5s

etc.

The #18 is ludicrously heavy and takes four to six
grown men to use. The curlies are used to make
Shaker boxes and. if the wood's really nice, veneer.

Did I take all the mystery out of bench planes for you?
So obvious isn't it?

Of course the specialty plane numbering system is
still a mystery to me though I've got a 45, 47, 71
and a few others. Steve Knight should start lettering
his planes - using the Greek alphabet - just to
be different. Is your marketing director listening
Steve?

charlie b

On 6 Jun 2005 10:56:46 -0700, "rickluce"
wrote:

I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.

I use one set low for surfacing small bits of wood, and set a bit
deeper for doing edge bevels. I like the size and feel. "Chacun a son
gout."

Everything. I only have a stanley bailey #4. I hope to get a stanley
block or lo angle block soon. Maybe even a 10" jointer

I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.

don


HEH!... everybody jokes because that plane is the most common on Earth and
is still being made by four or five companies, 6? 7?

Lie-Nielson, US (excellent)
Lee Valley's Veritas brand, Canada (excellent)
Clifton, England (excellent)
Stanley, England (so-so)
Anant, India (who knows)
Groz, India (who knows)
True Values "Master Mechanic" garbage brand, China
and probably Great Neck's garbage brand, China

And wooden bodied smoothers made by HNT Gordon in Australia and Steve
Knight of Knight toolworks, US. And several Japanese makers.

The Stanleys and other less known brands in that size are practically a_dime_a_
dozen on eBay. You could get a fairly decent looking one there for very little,
I have two #4 Stanleys, one of which I paid $7.99 (+ S/H) on eBay.

The "smooth plane" #'s 3 and 4 are for initial work, use them to take down the
highest hills on the surface, then a longer plane, #6 to level the hills to the valleys,
then the longest jointer plane, #'s 7 and 8, for final work, and a perfect surface.

This is what electric jointer and planer/thicknesser machines do these days.

Of course, just to remove matrial on a small piece, the #4 is perfect for that too.
One must have a "stop" on a bench, for the wood to go up against on one end, it
is also desirable to have it fully clamped. Good luck!

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Don't know 'cause don't own one

rickluce wrote:
I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.

don

rickluce wrote:

I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.

don

I use mine for everything from rounding the rod to my shelf/curten hanger to
smoothing glued up panels

--
if corn oil is made from corn, and olive oil is made from olives, where dose
baby oil come from?

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:27:01 -0700, "AAvK" wrote:

Of course, just to remove matrial on a small piece, the #4 is perfect for that too.
One must have a "stop" on a bench, for the wood to go up against on one end, it
is also desirable to have it fully clamped.

....or a good wood vice. I came across a great one for $5 at a house
sale.

....or a shooting board, or other form of guide.

I have to admit that although I do like it, I came across mine at a
yard sale for $2, rusted, but no deep pits. So I spent a day cleaning
it up, and repainting the metal, and she's again a tool. Came across
an old Sargent No 3415 the other day, and just finished cleaning that
one, and trimming the 15" x 2 3/4" wooden base slightly to get rid of
some scratches. Still some work to do, but it's got to go on the back
burner for a day or two. Damn, I love yard sales, flea markets and
junk shops [sometimes called antique stores].

"Richard Clements" wrote in message
.. .

if corn oil is made from corn, and olive oil is made from olives, where
dose
baby oil come from?

I wondered about that, too. It turns out that baby oil is the residue from
making baby powder.

(-:

--
Morris

In article .com,
rickluce wrote:
I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.


When you're too far from the green for a #3 ??

Not much. Most usefull sizes, for me, are a block plane and a #5.

"rickluce" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.

don

Don't know 'cause don't own one


Yeah... and Stein means Stone too.

Alex

I use mine for everything from rounding the rod to my shelf/curten hanger to
smoothing glued up panels

--
if corn oil is made from corn, and olive oil is made from olives, where dose
baby oil come from?


Baby oil comes from Babies of course, DAMHIKT, but I do not know about the extraction process.

Alex

On 6 Jun 2005 10:56:46 -0700, "rickluce" wrote:

I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.

don

mine's doing a great job holding a stack of sand paper.. haven't had a wrinkle
or crease in years..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"AAvK" writes:

[...]

if corn oil is made from corn, and olive oil is made from olives, where dose
baby oil come from?


Baby oil comes from Babies of course, DAMHIKT, but I do not know about the extraction process.

That is described in the classic short story by Ambrose Bierce "Oil of
Dog"...

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

Robert,

Don't you mean too far from the green for a #5????

I think I found the problem with your golf game.

:-)

jc

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
rickluce wrote:
I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.


When you're too far from the green for a #3 ??

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:12:19 +0200, the inscrutable Juergen Hannappel
spake:

"AAvK" writes:

[...]

if corn oil is made from corn, and olive oil is made from olives, where dose
baby oil come from?


Baby oil comes from Babies of course, DAMHIKT, but I do not know about the extraction process.

That is described in the classic short story by Ambrose Bierce "Oil of
Dog"...

ROTFLMAO! http://www.classicreader.com/read.php/sid.6/bookid.2058
Ah, one can't help but love the deep, dank, dark output of a skilled
wordsmith.

I wonder if the "dead baby jokes" were Bierce's doing, too...

"Be the change you want to see in the world." --Mahatma Gandhi
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

AAvK wrote:
snip
The "smooth plane" #'s 3 and 4 are for initial work, use them to take down the
highest hills on the surface, then a longer plane, #6 to level the hills to the valleys,
then the longest jointer plane, #'s 7 and 8, for final work, and a perfect surface.
snip

Sorry, the longer planes take the tops off "waves" in the boards. The
shorter ones are then used to finish the work.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.com

ROTFLMAO

SteveP.

"Joe C" wrote in message
. ..
Robert,

Don't you mean too far from the green for a #5????

I think I found the problem with your golf game.

:-)

jc

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
rickluce wrote:
I recently read an article that stated every serious woodworker must
have a #4 plane...bias aside, what are my fellow woodworkers using
there #4 planes for. Your responses will be appreciated.


When you're too far from the green for a #3 ??

Sorry, the longer planes take the tops off "waves" in the boards. The
shorter ones are then used to finish the work.

Dave in Fairfax
--

Well, that's how I did it, I can see how what_you_say would work, but I cannot
see how a 2" smoother would go for doing the finishing work, at that size. But
I will work it your way next time. My way worked great. I was seeing the jointer
and 'the jointing work' as a final process. I cannot see a smoother as doing the
final jointing work. I thought that was common sense. Any reciprocation on that?

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:49:08 -0700, "AAvK" wrote:

I cannot see how a 2" smoother would go for doing the finishing work, at that size.

You _must_ flatten before smoothing. You can smooth a flat board, but
you can't flatten a smooth board without throwing away the work you've
already done.

To smooth with a narrow plane then you have to have the iron sharpened
correctly. It needs to be flat, not crowned, but it also needs to have
the corners relieved _slightly_, just so that it doesn't leave
"tramlines" behind at the edges. Obviously the edge must also be
perfectly level and your technique must be such that you're weighting
each side of the plane equally, otherwise you plane a sawtooth surface
(watch the shaving width).

I recenly bought one of Steve's coffin smoothers. As usual it arrived
sharp and tuned, with a shaving stuck to it. A week of moisture change
in my workshop though and it wouldn't even cut. So I spent a day or two
faffing around adjusting it _just_ right for the perfect shaving. Now
Steve's planes are always going to be a bit awkward to adjust because
you're aiming for such a narrow window of perfection, but this one was
th emost awkward and finnickey yet. Took ages.

Then I tapped it apart and started all over again - it was tramlining on
the edges and the only thing for it was to take the iron out and wipe a
slip stone over the corners a few strokes. And of course then another
day of staring at it and tapping, while I re-set the iron just how I
wanted it (again). But without taking those corners down _just_ enough,
no amount of adjustment would have given good smoothing right across a
wide board.

Pictures of the finished project (a wedding present) in two weeks!


--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message

Then I tapped it apart and started all over again - it was tramlining on
the edges and the only thing for it was to take the iron out and wipe a
slip stone over the corners a few strokes. And of course then another
day of staring at it and tapping, while I re-set the iron just how I
wanted it (again). But without taking those corners down _just_ enough,
no amount of adjustment would have given good smoothing right across a
wide board.

That's stuff that always really irritates me when it comes to woodworking.
I'm fully cognizant of that fact that tools (some much more than others)
require a measure of maintenance for proper use, but when you get the
occasional tool that needs long, extended care to work properly, it drives
me right up a tree.

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:06:42 -0400, "Upscale" wrote:

when you get the occasional tool that needs long, extended care to work properly, it drives
me right up a tree.

I can live with it for initial setup (and I was being very fussy). They
only annoy me if they make a habit of it.

Dave in Fairfax wrote:
Sorry, the longer planes take the tops off "waves" in the boards. The
shorter ones are then used to finish the work.

AAvK wrote:
Well, that's how I did it, I can see how what_you_say would work, but I cannot
see how a 2" smoother would go for doing the finishing work, at that size. But
I will work it your way next time. My way worked great. I was seeing the jointer
and 'the jointing work' as a final process. I cannot see a smoother as doing the
final jointing work. I thought that was common sense. Any reciprocation on that?

The length of the plane has a lot to do with the length of the board. A
longer plane can span the hills and dales on a longer board whereas a
shorter plane would just follow the ups and downs rather than flatten
them. A shorter plane WITH a tighter mouth can take a finer shaving
than a larger one with a larger mouth. This isn't jointing, in general
though. For jointing, you'll want to take the center of the edges down
and then work outwards until you get a full length shaving. That way
you aren't just folowing the curvature of the edge. Check Jeff's
website for a better explanation. I don't talk too good.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.com

You _must_ flatten before smoothing. You can smooth a flat board, but
you can't flatten a smooth board without throwing away the work you've
already done.

Okay so #8 first, then smoothing. Thank you.

To smooth with a narrow plane then you have to have the iron sharpened
correctly. It needs to be flat, not crowned, but it also needs to have
the corners relieved _slightly_, just so that it doesn't leave
"tramlines" behind at the edges. Obviously the edge must also be
perfectly level and your technique must be such that you're weighting
each side of the plane equally, otherwise you plane a sawtooth surface
(watch the shaving width).

Actually, I became a sharpening expert early on, doing the scary sharp thing.
I just got my first set of Norton combos just for speed, because I have tardive
disconesia in both forearms and hands. It is a nerve condition that causes
aching pain in the muscles when they are worked too hard. It is not normal.
But I can put on a perfect glass_edged_micro_bevel_against_a_flat_mirrored_
back using paper and glass, rounded corners included. But as you suggest, the
technique of doing the actual planing is imparative. And thank you for that.

I recenly bought one of Steve's coffin smoothers. As usual it arrived
sharp and tuned, with a shaving stuck to it. A week of moisture change
in my workshop though and it wouldn't even cut. So I spent a day or two
faffing around adjusting it _just_ right for the perfect shaving. Now
Steve's planes are always going to be a bit awkward to adjust because
you're aiming for such a narrow window of perfection, but this one was
the most awkward and finnickey yet. Took ages.

You Albionites do have a very wet, yet non tropical climate. What kind of
wood is the smoother?

As crude as it is, I would have chosen Ipe, which is also known as Pao Lope
and Greenheart. Damn hard stuff! You could also shallac_then_laquer the
outside and then hard wax the sole with a carnouba, broken ddown with true
turpentine. No beeswax though, too soft, unless you would saturate the sole
wood first with it in a lightly heated state, both wood and beeswax, it should
soak in well if cut with turpentine. Wipe off the excess, refrigerate, and then
put on the carnouba.

Then I tapped it apart and started all over again - it was tramlining on
the edges and the only thing for it was to take the iron out and wipe a
slip stone over the corners a few strokes. And of course then another
day of staring at it and tapping, while I re-set the iron just how I
wanted it (again). But without taking those corners down _just_ enough,
no amount of adjustment would have given good smoothing right across a
wide board.

That makes some of the same sense I have, thanks much.

Pictures of the finished project (a wedding present) in two weeks!

I would like to see it!
--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/