A few years back I got a Call Tracking Calendar from the local
telephone company. It's about 5" X 8", and originally had about 450
pages, and was close to an inch think. It's still close to 3/4" thick.

I've got it on a table next to the end of the couch, and a plastic
tray on a bookcase, with a bunch of colored pens, el cheapo Pentel type
pencilss, calculator, and so on.

I use it to write down ideas, e-mail addresses I find in magazines,
basically anything I want to keep handy for awhile.

I can visualize things I want to make, so seldom make any plans of
projects, other than maybe a, usually, very rough sketch, and maybe a
measurement or two. Works for me. However, I also use the call tracker
to sketch out some things, so help me compare different ways of doing
something. I can actually sketch freehand with pretty good detail - but
no need for stuff like that. If I do want detail, I use a mechanical
pencil, sketching lightly, then going over lines, erasing if needed. If
people would try something like that, they could come up with some
pretty detailed drawings even if they have little artistic talent. But,
most of the time I just grab a pen, and make a rough drawing, no attempt
at scale or detail. Pages I want to keep, I leave in. Other pages get
pulled out, and shredded - just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they
aren't after me.

At times, when I'm having a problem working something out on a
project, I'll make a sketch, or several, maybe with notes, then leave
it. Later, maybe days, maybe weeks, later, I'll recheck and maybe get
new ideas on it. Right now I'm doing that with the end of a chair arm -
I can't quite come up with a shape I'm content with. So, I do searches
of chair, for inspiration, and go back, and make new sketches. One day
I'll hit on one I like.

If you don't keep a pad and pencil handy, I would advise you to
start.



JOAT
Failure is ALWAYS an option.
- JOAT

On Sun, 29 May 2005 01:31:57 -0400, (J T)
wrote:

A few years back I got a Call Tracking Calendar from the local
telephone company. It's about 5" X 8", and originally had about 450
pages, and was close to an inch think. It's still close to 3/4" thick.

Snip

If you don't keep a pad and pencil handy, I would advise you to
start.

JOAT, yes and no. I have a PDA with a memo pad function and a
rudimentary drawing program (think MS paint or similar) Stays in my
pocket at all times except for when it's on the charger when I'm
asleep. I usually use it to compare tool prices, and the checkbook
program is awful handy as well. With the memory card, it will hold as
many as 128 novels worth of plain text, and it has an acrobat reader.

Not a pad of paper, but very similar once you learn to use it. A lot
of times I use it when out in the woods to sketch shapes I like,
without having to lug around a notebook.

Sun, May 29, 2005, 5:54am (EDT-1) (Prometheus)
says:
JOAT, yes and no. I have a PDA with a memo pad function and a
rudimentary drawing program (think MS paint or similar) Stays in my
pocket at all times except for when it's on the charger when I'm asleep.
I usually use it to compare tool prices, and the checkbook program is
awful handy as well. With the memory card, it will hold as many as 128
novels worth of plain text, and it has an acrobat reader.
Not a pad of paper, but very similar once you learn to use it. A lot of
times I use it when out in the woods to sketch shapes I like, without
having to lug around a notebook.

LMAO I'm not even sure what the Hell a PDA is. The advanced
drawing program I use is paper, pencil, my brain. There's just
something so very much more appealing about sketching on paper. Or wood
scraps, my arm, shirt, or whatever - something tangible. I quit writing
checks around 20 years ago, when times were tight raising my sons on my
own, and managed to bounce a few checks. You miscalculate which have
cleared, maybe lack as little as 5 cents and it bounces, then you always
bounce one or two more - and pay the penalty for each. So, now pay with
postal money orders, check debit, or automatic withdrawal. Life is less
stressful that way. And, anything I read, still prefer hard copy, I
don't read technical articles off my screen, I usually print them out,
unless they're really short. I still prefer a small, pocket-sized, pad
for sketching, I only have to worry about getting another, not whether
it needs recharging. But, as long as you use something, that's the
bottom line.



JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 01:31:57 -0400, J T wrote:

A few years back I got a Call Tracking Calendar from the local
telephone company. It's about 5" X 8", and originally had about 450
pages, and was close to an inch think. It's still close to 3/4" thick.

I've got it on a table next to the end of the couch, and a plastic
tray on a bookcase, with a bunch of colored pens, el cheapo Pentel type
pencilss, calculator, and so on.

I use it to write down ideas, e-mail addresses I find in magazines,
basically anything I want to keep handy for awhile.

I can visualize things I want to make, so seldom make any plans of
projects, other than maybe a, usually, very rough sketch, and maybe a
measurement or two. Works for me. However, I also use the call tracker
to sketch out some things, so help me compare different ways of doing
something. I can actually sketch freehand with pretty good detail - but
no need for stuff like that. If I do want detail, I use a mechanical
pencil, sketching lightly, then going over lines, erasing if needed. If
people would try something like that, they could come up with some
pretty detailed drawings even if they have little artistic talent. But,
most of the time I just grab a pen, and make a rough drawing, no attempt
at scale or detail. Pages I want to keep, I leave in. Other pages get
pulled out, and shredded - just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they
aren't after me.

At times, when I'm having a problem working something out on a
project, I'll make a sketch, or several, maybe with notes, then leave
it. Later, maybe days, maybe weeks, later, I'll recheck and maybe get
new ideas on it. Right now I'm doing that with the end of a chair arm -
I can't quite come up with a shape I'm content with. So, I do searches
of chair, for inspiration, and go back, and make new sketches. One day
I'll hit on one I like.

If you don't keep a pad and pencil handy, I would advise you to
start.

I do the same. In my case I keep a "lab notebook" with
gridded pages on my desk. I can visualize and sketch out
ideas as they come. Mostly I use the notebook to work out
proportions and cut lists. Lee Valley (I think) has some
neat looking graph paper tablets that would do the job
nicely.

DGA

dgadams wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 01:31:57 -0400, J T wrote:


A few years back I got a Call Tracking Calendar from the local
telephone company. It's about 5" X 8", and originally had about 450
pages, and was close to an inch think. It's still close to 3/4" thick.

I've got it on a table next to the end of the couch, and a plastic
tray on a bookcase, with a bunch of colored pens, el cheapo Pentel type
pencilss, calculator, and so on.

I use it to write down ideas, e-mail addresses I find in magazines,
basically anything I want to keep handy for awhile.

I can visualize things I want to make, so seldom make any plans of
projects, other than maybe a, usually, very rough sketch, and maybe a
measurement or two. Works for me. However, I also use the call tracker
to sketch out some things, so help me compare different ways of doing
something. I can actually sketch freehand with pretty good detail - but
no need for stuff like that. If I do want detail, I use a mechanical
pencil, sketching lightly, then going over lines, erasing if needed. If
people would try something like that, they could come up with some
pretty detailed drawings even if they have little artistic talent. But,
most of the time I just grab a pen, and make a rough drawing, no attempt
at scale or detail. Pages I want to keep, I leave in. Other pages get
pulled out, and shredded - just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they
aren't after me.

At times, when I'm having a problem working something out on a
project, I'll make a sketch, or several, maybe with notes, then leave
it. Later, maybe days, maybe weeks, later, I'll recheck and maybe get
new ideas on it. Right now I'm doing that with the end of a chair arm -
I can't quite come up with a shape I'm content with. So, I do searches
of chair, for inspiration, and go back, and make new sketches. One day
I'll hit on one I like.

If you don't keep a pad and pencil handy, I would advise you to
start.


I do the same. In my case I keep a "lab notebook" with
gridded pages on my desk. I can visualize and sketch out
ideas as they come. Mostly I use the notebook to work out
proportions and cut lists. Lee Valley (I think) has some
neat looking graph paper tablets that would do the job
nicely.

DGA
I do the same thing with a pad when up the house, however when down the
shed, it's scraps of wood all the way.
There's a neat little pile of odd shaped pieces of wood with ideas,
measurements and plans on in one corner. Usually get a smile from the
shop assistant when I go to the local hardware with my list and
measurements on a piece of wood.
regards
John

(J T) wrote in news:17185-429953CD-219@storefull-
3117.bay.webtv.net:

At times, when I'm having a problem working something out on a
project, I'll make a sketch, or several, maybe with notes, then leave
it. Later, maybe days, maybe weeks, later, I'll recheck and maybe get
new ideas on it. Right now I'm doing that with the end of a chair arm -
I can't quite come up with a shape I'm content with. So, I do searches
of chair, for inspiration, and go back, and make new sketches. One day
I'll hit on one I like.

If you don't keep a pad and pencil handy, I would advise you to
start.


I've got sketchbooks going back decades. Creativity comes when it wants
to.

A customer told me years ago "A dull pencil beats a sharp mind." Somedays,
I have neither, however.

Patriarch

In article ,
(J T) wrote:

If you don't keep a pad and pencil handy, I would advise you to
start.

I have a pad and pencil on my night stand. I sometimes get a few ideas
when I'm teetering between being awake and being somewhat less awake.
I take a small digital camera with me wherever I go. I see something of
interest, I capture it. Sometimes I doodle on a napkin, and take a
picture. Many times I look at my pictures and go: "WTF??"

G

I have a lab notebook ("Composition Book") of graph paper also, and I
sketch ideas as they strike, along with the date - it's interesting to
track a project from the day the idea hits to completion. I'm sure it
will be interesting to look back on in several years also. Cutting
lists, wish-lists of tools to buy, etc. also go in here.
I've also noticed the Lee Valley pads - they're ruled in 1/4" lines,
with 32nd's I think along the edges (my notebook is 5 lines to the inch
- the scale occasionally gets confusing if I try to use a ruler for
diagonal lines, etc.). I don't think they're acutally bound, though -
just tear-off sheets.
Anyway, I have a little plastic 6" ruler in a pocket made of tape
inside the front cover, and keep a mechanical pencil clipped to it
also.
This is what works for me!

Sun, May 29, 2005, 9:31pm (Robatoy) says:
snip Many times I look at my pictures and go: "WTF??"

Ah, I can see you have the system perfected. LOL Join the crowd.



JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it. Life
is basically good.

Sun, May 29, 2005, 7:14pm (EDT-3) (Andy) says:
snip along with the date snip the scale occasionally gets confusing
if I try to use a ruler for diagonal lines, etc.). snip

I don't date any of my sketches. If I use a date, I take it from
the date the whatever is finished. I use a colored pen, different color
from the paper lines - usually red, blue, maybe black - and that cures
confusion. Actually, I'd prefer just plain sheets, no lines at all -
but what I'm using now was free, so I'm not about to complain.

Something I do for some projects - usually non-woodworking - is
print out a picture(s) of whatever, and use a pencil to sketch on
changes I'm thinking of making, so see what scale they need to be, etc.
Usually a vehicle project.



JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it. Life
is basically good.

In article , Prometheus
wrote:

I have a PDA with a memo pad function and a rudimentary drawing program
( . . . )
Not a pad of paper, but very similar once you learn to use it.

lol... This reminds me of our recent LMR (Labor-Management Relations)
meetings. I'm a union officer. My department head sets across the
table. I have a Palm (somewhere... the union bought one for me, but
dangifIknow where it is or how to use it). Also on the management side
is the UberGeek, with his GeekWatch, GeekPDA, and probably GeekDrawers.

While various folks around the table are trying to "beam" stuff back
and forth and synch their calendars, my nemesis and I are taking notes
on paper. I guarantee you that at the end of the meeting, we both know
more of what went on at the meeting than those who are focused on
hot-synching their PDAs. Both in our heads, and in our note pads. He
often points out that if he takes a bullet through his note pad, he can
still read around the bullet hole, but challenges his geeky partner to
do the same if his Palm gets shot.

Hey, I *like* geeky stuffy. I'm a gadget freak. But I only want gadgets
that work, and the whole Palm/PDA thing doesn't work for me.

Kevin

On Sun, 29 May 2005 14:10:32 -0400, (J T)
wrote:

Sun, May 29, 2005, 5:54am (EDT-1) (Prometheus)
says:
JOAT, yes and no. I have a PDA with a memo pad function and a
rudimentary drawing program (think MS paint or similar) Stays in my
pocket at all times except for when it's on the charger when I'm asleep.
I usually use it to compare tool prices, and the checkbook program is
awful handy as well. With the memory card, it will hold as many as 128
novels worth of plain text, and it has an acrobat reader.
Not a pad of paper, but very similar once you learn to use it. A lot of
times I use it when out in the woods to sketch shapes I like, without
having to lug around a notebook.

LMAO I'm not even sure what the Hell a PDA is. The advanced
drawing program I use is paper, pencil, my brain. There's just
something so very much more appealing about sketching on paper. Or wood
scraps, my arm, shirt, or whatever - something tangible.

The beauty of the little thing I've got is that it has a touch screen,
so drawing on it is almost identical to sketching on paper. You can
jot notes the same way by writing the letters in a little box in one
corner, and it shows up as type.

I quit writing
checks around 20 years ago, when times were tight raising my sons on my
own, and managed to bounce a few checks. You miscalculate which have
cleared, maybe lack as little as 5 cents and it bounces, then you always
bounce one or two more - and pay the penalty for each. So, now pay with
postal money orders, check debit, or automatic withdrawal. Life is less
stressful that way.

Yep, I used to bounce them, too- that's why I've got the check
program!

And, anything I read, still prefer hard copy, I
don't read technical articles off my screen, I usually print them out,
unless they're really short. I still prefer a small, pocket-sized, pad
for sketching, I only have to worry about getting another, not whether
it needs recharging. But, as long as you use something, that's the
bottom line.

Any option works, of course. I actually just tossed it out there
because I went to Best Buy to get a replacement stylus (the thing that
you use to write on the screen), and I saw that carried very few of
them these days. The sales guy said they had been replaced by iPods,
but that's completely nuts! All an iPod is is a fancy walkman, and a
PDA is a handheld computer. I guess most people agree with you, and
just use a little notebook!

On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:45:17 -0500, Kevin Craig
wrote:

In article , Prometheus
wrote:

I have a PDA with a memo pad function and a rudimentary drawing program
( . . . )
Not a pad of paper, but very similar once you learn to use it.

lol... This reminds me of our recent LMR (Labor-Management Relations)
meetings. I'm a union officer. My department head sets across the
table. I have a Palm (somewhere... the union bought one for me, but
dangifIknow where it is or how to use it). Also on the management side
is the UberGeek, with his GeekWatch, GeekPDA, and probably GeekDrawers.

While various folks around the table are trying to "beam" stuff back
and forth and synch their calendars, my nemesis and I are taking notes
on paper. I guarantee you that at the end of the meeting, we both know
more of what went on at the meeting than those who are focused on
hot-synching their PDAs. Both in our heads, and in our note pads. He
often points out that if he takes a bullet through his note pad, he can
still read around the bullet hole, but challenges his geeky partner to
do the same if his Palm gets shot.

ROFL! No, for work I use my memory or good ol' paper. But I spend a
fair amount of time these days tromping through the forest with a bow
saw and a field identification guide for trees. No room for a
notebook, and even if I had one, it'd have been ruined today, when I
got rained on for about an hour. (Small price to pay for a nice oak
burl cap, considering I can't buy the suckers *anywhere* around here!)

Overall, the PDA is a toy- but it works really well for doing some
useful things as well. Taking notes in meetings just isn't one of
them! I get irritated with the guys who rely too heavily on them as
well.

Hey, I *like* geeky stuffy. I'm a gadget freak. But I only want gadgets
that work, and the whole Palm/PDA thing doesn't work for me.

The funny thing is, the Palm is the *only* gadget I really like. I
won't have a cell phone, I don't care to have a laptop, and I'm
certainly not in the mood for an iPod or one of it's cousins. Heck, I
don't even like digital clocks or watches, and I do all my math
longhand. Who knows why I like my PDA so much- it's a mystery even to
me.

Mon, May 30, 2005, 5:22am (EDT-1) (Prometheus)
spake:
snip Yep, I used to bounce them, too- that's why I've got the check
program! snip

But then you've still got to think. Life is easier since I started
using the money orders, and especially the check debit card. I stop by
the bank ATM about every day, check the money level, then know exacly
how much is available. If I don't have enough to buy what it is I'm
after, I pass it up until I got some more money in. The check debit card
is nice, because if I get out and see something I want, and don't have
enough cash, it works just like a credit card, except you're spending
money you actually have, not borrowing money an an exhorbinate rate.



JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it. Life
is basically good.

Mon, May 30, 2005, 5:37am (EDT-1) (Prometheus)
informs us:
snip I got rained on for about an hour. snip

And you still don't know enough to come in out of the rain. LMAO



JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it. Life
is basically good.

In article 36,
Patriarch wrote:

A customer told me years ago "A dull pencil beats a sharp mind." Somedays,
I have neither, however.

Some days, I will take a fresh sheet of paper, a freshly sharpened
pencil of appropriate hardness, and stare at the blank page till small
drops of blood form on my forehead. I usually go on to something else
when that happens.

"Robatoy" wrote
Some days, I will take a fresh sheet of paper, a freshly sharpened
pencil of appropriate hardness, and stare at the blank page till small
drops of blood form on my forehead. I usually go on to something else
when that happens.

Uh ... don't use the pencil as a prop next time you nod off, or at least aim
it pointy side down (E-mail JOAT for his free detailed and measured Pointy
Stick drawing ... it has the correct orientation for use indicated somewhere
on sheet 3 of 9. If you act now, he might even throw in the VHS tape).

But you DO bring up a good point. Many has been the time that a new writing
instrument and/or a new pad of paper (or lately a newer version of software)
has been the inspiration for a wonderful and new project. It can be that all
it takes to get you out of a 6' deep rut is one sheet of (spanky new, very
nice) paper.

I have lots of used pens, pencils and too many partial pads of paper to
count ... and not that many projects lately.


.... now where did I put the plans for that flat board?



Cheers,



Rick

In article ,
(J T) wrote:

it works just like a credit card, except you're spending
money you actually have, not borrowing money an an exhorbinate rate.

Another up-side is that when your debit card is refused, you walk away
from the transaction knowing that you don't owe anybody anything.

You don't get to take home that hand-crafted phillistred irradial
desorator, but hey? Did you really need it?

JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it. Life
is basically good.

:-)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:41:36 -0400, (J T)
wrote:

Mon, May 30, 2005, 5:37am (EDT-1) (Prometheus)
informs us:
snip I got rained on for about an hour. snip

And you still don't know enough to come in out of the rain. LMAO

Heh- wouldn't have done me much good to try anyhow- I was about an
hour's hike from the car. Gotta love the weather in Wisconsin- it was
sunny and clear when I left, rained for an hour once I got to the
middle of the woods, then got sunny and clear again by the time I got
back. After a while, you just give up on try to plan anything around
the weather and consent to either stay inside, or risk getting wet!

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:41:36 -0400, (J T)
wrote:

Mon, May 30, 2005, 5:37am (EDT-1) (Prometheus)
informs us:
snip I got rained on for about an hour. snip

And you still don't know enough to come in out of the rain. LMAO

Heh- wouldn't have done me much good to try anyhow- I was about an
hour's hike from the car. Gotta love the weather in Wisconsin- it was
sunny and clear when I left, rained for an hour once I got to the
middle of the woods, then got sunny and clear again by the time I got
back. After a while, you just give up on try to plan anything around
the weather and consent to either stay inside, or risk getting wet!



Sounds like western NY. We used to own two "toys" guaranteed to get you a
wet a** sooner or later . . motorcycle and boat.

--
Nahmie
The greatest headaches are those we cause ourselves.

Tue, May 31, 2005, 5:36am (EDT-1) (Prometheus)
sayeth:
snip After a while, you just give up on try to plan anything around
the weather and consent to either stay inside, or risk getting wet!

Awhile back I found a store with some of those compact umbrellas on
sale, for abrout $2. I'm too damn old anymore to care for cold water
down my neck, or to care what anyone thinks, so bought one. And, either
have it in the truck, when it's raining with me in the house, or just
plain forget to use it. LOL



JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it. Life
is basically good.

Tue, May 31, 2005, 2:12am (EDT+4) (jo4hn) posted:
JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it. Life is
basically good.

I would have included "kids", but hat seems to be chronic.



JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it. Life
is basically good.

Tue, May 31, 2005, 4:10pm (Norman=A0D.=A0Crow)
saideth:
Don't mind it down the back of the neck so much as on my bald pate!!!

Then you either learn to get in out of the rain, or get a hat. I
got a nice National Geogrphic baseball hat a few weeks back. Stuck a DAV
pin on it (couldn't think of anything better to do with it), and then,
for some obscure reason, the Army sent me an Army pin (I retired in '84,
apprently they just got the word), so stuck in on there too. Now the
grand-dau loves it, but I'm not giving it up.

And, just for general info, nothing quite like being able to
compare two hard-copy sketches, and seeing how they compare. You'd need
to whatevers to be able to do that thingies with screens. I'm thinking
I'll stuck with a pen/pencil and paper (or scrap wood, or whatever).
Just more satisfying - possibly because it feels more real.



JOAT
Viet Nam. Divorce. Cancer. Been there, done that, got over it. Life
is basically good.

On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:27:50 -0400, (J T)
wrote:

Tue, May 31, 2005, 4:10pm (NormanÂ*D.Â*Crow)
saideth:
Don't mind it down the back of the neck so much as on my bald pate!!!

Then you either learn to get in out of the rain, or get a hat. I
got a nice National Geogrphic baseball hat a few weeks back. Stuck a DAV
pin on it (couldn't think of anything better to do with it), and then,
for some obscure reason, the Army sent me an Army pin (I retired in '84,
apprently they just got the word), so stuck in on there too. Now the
grand-dau loves it, but I'm not giving it up.

Can't do that... I've got all sorts of free baseball caps from work,
but if I wear them, I can watch my hairline recede a bit every day.
It's kind of amazing, really- but I'm not quite ready to look like one
of those guys from those old kung-fu movies.

And, just for general info, nothing quite like being able to
compare two hard-copy sketches, and seeing how they compare. You'd need
to whatevers to be able to do that thingies with screens. I'm thinking
I'll stuck with a pen/pencil and paper (or scrap wood, or whatever).
Just more satisfying - possibly because it feels more real.

Sure thing. It took a bit of getting used to for me, but that's what
I'm accustomed to now for quick sketches. Of course, if I'm drawing
up plans, I still use the old quad pad and a ruler.

Thu, Jun 2, 2005, 5:11am (EDT-1) (Prometheus)
sayeth:
snip Of course, if I'm drawing up plans, I still use the old quad pad
and a ruler.

Plans? Plans? We don' need no steenkin' plans. LOL

For myself, a few measurements, maybe a rough sketch or two,
usually does. I seldom, if ever, make any sort of detailed sketch, for
my own projects - altho I do sometimes write notes, so I'll know what my
sketches mean, later. If I were making plans for someone else to use
(perish the thought, let'em find their own damn plan), I'd probably go
into more detail, but still freehand it. Making plans for sale, that
might be different. I don't know if I'd opt for a computer-type thingy
or not. More likely I'd just draft them out, and get copies made,
learned drafting in high school, and still remember how it goes.

Yeah, I know drafting would take longer, and all that, but as I
wouldn't be depending on selling plans for a living, that's what I'd
prefer. It's what I know how to do, it works, it's satisfying. And, I
wouldn't need to invest more than a few $ for whatever I need, as
opposed to probably dropping hundreds, maybe thousands, of $ for
computer stuff. Actually, I have been thinking about trying to sell a
plan or two, but I wouldn't need to buy any supplies to do that, so the
only extra cost involved would be the copying.

But, yeah, if I was depending on making a living drafting and
selling plans, I might well go with compuer stuff. It would depend on a
lot of variables, if that would be more cost effective than just plain
old drafting; but if it came to making a living from it, then that's an
option I would definitely be willing to consider. However, for now, a
pencil does it all.



JOAT
Reality is not mandatory, it's just an option.

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:39:17 -0400, (J T)
wrote:

Thu, Jun 2, 2005, 5:11am (EDT-1) (Prometheus)
sayeth:
snip Of course, if I'm drawing up plans, I still use the old quad pad
and a ruler.

Plans? Plans? We don' need no steenkin' plans. LOL

For myself, a few measurements, maybe a rough sketch or two,
usually does. I seldom, if ever, make any sort of detailed sketch, for
my own projects - altho I do sometimes write notes, so I'll know what my
sketches mean, later. If I were making plans for someone else to use
(perish the thought, let'em find their own damn plan), I'd probably go
into more detail, but still freehand it. Making plans for sale, that
might be different. I don't know if I'd opt for a computer-type thingy
or not. More likely I'd just draft them out, and get copies made,
learned drafting in high school, and still remember how it goes.

I get edgy without the plan drawn up. Last time I did that, I ended
up with a table with two left feet! Luckily, the wife liked it that
way, so it became her bedside table, and I kept the good one.
Seems like when I build without the plan ready, I either don't finish
the project, or make stupid mistakes. I imagine experience helps with
winging it in the long run.

Yeah, I know drafting would take longer, and all that, but as I
wouldn't be depending on selling plans for a living, that's what I'd
prefer. It's what I know how to do, it works, it's satisfying. And, I
wouldn't need to invest more than a few $ for whatever I need, as
opposed to probably dropping hundreds, maybe thousands, of $ for
computer stuff. Actually, I have been thinking about trying to sell a
plan or two, but I wouldn't need to buy any supplies to do that, so the
only extra cost involved would be the copying.

I still prefer drafting by hand to CAD and the like as well. Looks
like I'm going to have to learn CAD anyhow, though. The HR guy at
work said today that if I can get that down cold, he'll promote me to
engineering rather than just running the saws and other fab equipment.

Actually, I sort of think the old paper method of laying out plans
works better in a lot of ways. Probably just because I'm used to it,
and I like to stack the paper over a light to make sure things line
up. (Yeah, I know about wire-frames in CAD, they're just not as fun.)

It also would make YOU more marketable!

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:19:29 -0500, Prometheus
wrote:

I still prefer drafting by hand to CAD and the like as well. Looks
like I'm going to have to learn CAD anyhow, though. The HR guy at
work said today that if I can get that down cold, he'll promote me to
engineering rather than just running the saws and other fab equipment.

Actually, I sort of think the old paper method of laying out plans
works better in a lot of ways. Probably just because I'm used to it,
and I like to stack the paper over a light to make sure things line
up. (Yeah, I know about wire-frames in CAD, they're just not as fun.)

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
Actually, I sort of think the old paper method of laying out plans
works better in a lot of ways. Probably just because I'm used to it,

Yep. Get good with cad and yu'll not go back.

and I like to stack the paper over a light to make sure things line
up. (Yeah, I know about wire-frames in CAD, they're just not as fun.)

That's where cad got "layers" from.