For those of you that are not happy with either the quality or the
service that Forrest is putting out these days please READ ON!
I have been a Forrest user for over 30 years and have no complaints
about them. They do make a good blade. However, I have been reading
postings recentely about dis-satisfied customers complaining about one
thing or another.

About two years ago I needed to go to Fall River, MA to buy a few 10"
saw blades for a new table saw in addition to my 16" Tannewitz XJ which
I use in the mill for most work but has a 1 1/8" stub arbor and 14"
diameter blades.
While going through the selection of blades an older gentleman
approached me and before you know it I was listening to this man for
almost an hour talking about saw blades and his years experience in
making them. He was the founder of the store called "Burns Tools"
which began in 1934. He is a master saw blade maker who has many years
of experience. He was talking to me about hand hammering blades which
is an art long gone. I was facinated with Mr. Burns as he is a walking
encyclopedia on this subject.

Now here is the best part This man IS THE INVENTOR of the saw blade
that "Forrest" sells as the WoodworkerII. I cannot remember exactly how
Marshall's innovative idea got into the hands of the Forrest folks but
it did and they have capitalized on his idea for years now. It's a
shame. Anyway, he, his sons and grandson run BurnsTools in Fall River,
MA. They sell power tools and supplies to the construction trades. In
their factory, they also custom make the exact saw blade that Forrest
makes in addition to other styles. If you are looking for another
source of excellent saw blades I strongly recommend that you check them
out on their website burnstools.com or call them @ 508-675-0381.
Their store is located at 350 Mariano S Bishop Blvd. in Fall River, MA
02721. Tell them that Charles of Charles & Son sent you. You will not
be disappointed. Their service dept. for sharpening is tops and their
turn around time is one week. Ask for Marshall Burns, he is a
wonderful man and a pleasure to talk with. All of the folks there are
super people as well.

Cheers,
Gusty

Sounds like the guy who sold Bill Gates the rights to DOS!

I just want to go on record as being a satisfied cusomer of Forrest
blades, contrary to what you suggests in the first paragraph.

Gusty wrote:

I have been a Forrest user for over 30 years and have no complaints
about them. They do make a good blade. However, I have been reading
postings recentely about dis-satisfied customers complaining about one
thing or another.

Where?

Barry

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
Sounds like the guy who sold Bill Gates the rights to DOS!

I just want to go on record as being a satisfied cusomer of Forrest
blades, contrary to what you suggests in the first paragraph.

Likewise ... I own 2 Forrest WWII's, and a Forrest ChopMaster. My older WWII
just got back last week from Forrest after its third sharpening, and it cuts
like new. My "customer satisfaction" has not diminished one iota.

FWIW, I also own a Freud GlueLine Rip, and a couple of other 10" blades
accumulated down through the years, and I still go back to a Forrest as a
first choice.

That said, I would love to try one of the Burn's 10" 40 tooth just to make a
comparison ... my bet is that it is indeed a good blade. If I win the
lottery, I'll let you know.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/25/05

Where?

Barry

My first forest WWII was slightly off, promptly replaced at no cost.
Second blade is still very wonderful, but needs a pitch bath.

Alan

Gusty wrote:

....
...about hand hammering blades which
is an art long gone. ...

Not hardly...

Don't doubt your Mr. Burns is an interesting ol' coot, but he's not
absolutely unique...

I'm going on record as a SATISFIED customer of Forrest.

Gusty wrote:

However, I have been reading
postings recentely about dis-satisfied customers complaining about one
thing or another.

I just bought my first TS and a FWWII blade. It started off flat to
within .001. Then, I had a bad kickback episode (before I bought some
board buddies) and the blade actually twisted visibly about an inch.
Now its .002 off- what am I gonna do!? I cant work with such
imprecision!

Cuts like butter. No complaints here. Though I did buy a 6" stiffener
and have not noticed any difference other than that my depth of cut is
only 1 5/8", and that after chiseling out some of my zero clearance
insert to make more vertical room for the stiffener.

"Bob in Oregon" wrote in message
I just bought my first TS and a FWWII blade. It started off flat to
within .001. Then, I had a bad kickback episode (before I bought some
board buddies) and the blade actually twisted visibly about an inch.
Now its .002 off- what am I gonna do!? I cant work with such
imprecision!

No problem. Forrest will straighten the blade for you for a few extra bucks.
Some dummy bent one of my WWII's tilting the blade while forgetting to
remove a zero clearance insert ... came back from Forrest like new.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/25/05

I also have the stiffener, which I find unnecessary, but most of the
time I leave it on (so I don't feel like a fool for spending $25 on it).
I don't like the loss in depth either, for the rare time I need close
to the full height of the blade. 99% of the time, I'm cutting 3/4"
stock, so even on top of my sled, I don't need more than 2" of blade
exposed.

When my WWII was brand new it was really, really close to having NO
runout. In time, it got tweaked maybe 4-6 thousandths. A minute or two
of finding the spot where it had runout and a judicious application of
force with my hand got it back to near-perfect. Been fine ever since.
The only time that blade comes off is when I need to dado, use the
molding cutters, or need a clean edge on melamine. For the melamine I
love the Freud double-sided melamine blade. oh, and the SD-508 also
leaves a perfect edge on Melamine or ply. Such tools are such a
pleasure to use.

Dave

Bob in Oregon wrote:

I just bought my first TS and a FWWII blade. It started off flat to
within .001. Then, I had a bad kickback episode (before I bought some
board buddies) and the blade actually twisted visibly about an inch.
Now its .002 off- what am I gonna do!? I cant work with such
imprecision!

Cuts like butter. No complaints here. Though I did buy a 6" stiffener
and have not noticed any difference other than that my depth of cut is
only 1 5/8", and that after chiseling out some of my zero clearance
insert to make more vertical room for the stiffener.

Greg O wrote:


"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
Sounds like the guy who sold Bill Gates the rights to DOS!



Did you see the show on Discovery about the Seattle
computers/Microsoft/IBM computer deal to?
How would you like to be that guy, knowing Gates became a zillionaire off
of your program that he bought for, what was it?, $10,000 IIRC?!!

The total value of the deal, according to "the guy", Tim Paterson, was about
$75,000. Bear in mind that Paterson didn't have IBM on the hook and this
was very likely a "make or buy" decision. CP/M just wasn't all that complex
an OS, in fact it was really just a glorified system monitor that could
have been written by any number of college students (something with roughly
equivalent functionality is often assigned as a class project at the
sophomore or junior level) so if Paterson hadn't dealt Microsoft would
probably have just written it in house and he wouldn't have gotten
_anything_ out of it.

He doesn't seem to be particularly unhappy about it. One kind of wishes
that he'd held out for some residuals, but so it goes. None of the
original Star Trek cast gets anything out of Trek, Diana Rigg doesn't get
anything out of The Avengers, sad stories abound.

And you are still there peddling your computers out of the local mall!

Actually last I heard he was working for Microsoft.

Greg

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
Sounds like the guy who sold Bill Gates the rights to DOS!



Did you see the show on Discovery about the Seattle computers/Microsoft/IBM
computer deal to?
How would you like to be that guy, knowing Gates became a zillionaire off of
your program that he bought for, what was it?, $10,000 IIRC?!!
And you are still there peddling your computers out of the local mall!
Greg

He doesn't seem to be particularly unhappy about it. One kind of wishes
that he'd held out for some residuals, but so it goes. None of the
original Star Trek cast gets anything out of Trek, Diana Rigg doesn't get
anything out of The Avengers, sad stories abound.

Unless you count their subsequent careers. Most of the cast of the original
Star Trek would most likely have faded into showbiz oblivion by now. So
even if they received limited residual income from the original series,
there are the 6 or 7 Star Trek movies they got to star in, the numerous
conventions they are paid to participate in, and probably even a fair
percentage of the non-Trek-related roles they have gotten are the result of
the show's cache.

Lee


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

Joe User wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
CP/M just wasn't all that complex
an OS, in fact it was really just a glorified system monitor that could
have been written by any number of college students


Yeah, and it was more advanced than DOS. I've used 'em both, and I'd
take CP/M every time.

So how do you make a directory in CP/M?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
CP/M just wasn't all that complex
an OS, in fact it was really just a glorified system monitor that could
have been written by any number of college students


Yeah, and it was more advanced than DOS. I've used 'em both, and I'd
take CP/M every time.

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Gusty wrote:

...
...about hand hammering blades which
is an art long gone. ...

Not hardly...

Circular blades for sawmills still have to be hammered left or right
handed depending on which side of the blade the log carriage is on. Sam

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Gusty wrote:

...
...about hand hammering blades which
is an art long gone. ...

Not hardly...

Circular blades for sawmills still have to be hammered left or right
handed depending on which side of the blade the log carriage is on. Sam

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Actually last I heard he was working for Microsoft.



Last I heard he was still peddling computers, shop name Seattle Computers.
Greg

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Greg O wrote:


"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
Sounds like the guy who sold Bill Gates the rights to DOS!



Did you see the show on Discovery about the Seattle
computers/Microsoft/IBM computer deal to?
How would you like to be that guy, knowing Gates became a zillionaire off
of your program that he bought for, what was it?, $10,000 IIRC?!!

The total value of the deal, according to "the guy", Tim Paterson, was
about
$75,000.

Could be, but the show I saw had him on a interview and he said it was
$10,000. He had licensed Microsoft to sell his DOS program at $1,000 a copy,
but did not ever think he would ever sell 10 copies so $10,000 was a great
deal!
It has been 3-4 years since I saw the show, so my figures may be a bit
rusty.
Greg

Greg O wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Greg O wrote:


"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
Sounds like the guy who sold Bill Gates the rights to DOS!



Did you see the show on Discovery about the Seattle
computers/Microsoft/IBM computer deal to?
How would you like to be that guy, knowing Gates became a zillionaire
off of your program that he bought for, what was it?, $10,000 IIRC?!!

The total value of the deal, according to "the guy", Tim Paterson, was
about
$75,000.

Could be, but the show I saw had him on a interview and he said it was
$10,000. He had licensed Microsoft to sell his DOS program at $1,000 a
copy, but did not ever think he would ever sell 10 copies so $10,000 was a
great deal!
It has been 3-4 years since I saw the show, so my figures may be a bit
rusty.

The company that Paterson founded http://www.patersontech.com/ has a Web
site with several articles that he wrote about this. The initial deal was
$10,000 plus $15,000 for each OEM customer. That was $25,000 up front.
Later, just before the PC was announced, Microsoft bought it outright for
$50,000. Later there was a lawsuit such that SCP ended up getting over a
million dollars, but that wasn't really part of the "deal".

Greg

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Greg O wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Actually last I heard he was working for Microsoft.



Last I heard he was still peddling computers, shop name Seattle Computers.

Actually, the "shop" was a manufacturer and it was called "Seattle Computer
Products" and if that's the last you heard you haven't heard anything in a
very long time, because he worked for Microsoft for a while, quit, and went
back to work for them in 1990 and has been there ever since.

Greg

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wrote:

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Gusty wrote:

...
...about hand hammering blades which
is an art long gone. ...

Not hardly...

Circular blades for sawmills still have to be hammered left or right
handed depending on which side of the blade the log carriage is on. Sam

You apparently mistook my meaning...I was pointing out that hammering is
not such a "long gone" art as the OP seems to think. Any good
refurb shop will have the capability as well as quality manufacturers.

1-As I expected, there are those that must take any kind of an article
no matter how positive, pick it apart and look for some arguing point
or a negative comment to make. All I stated was that 1- I was a
satisfied customer of Forrest and 2- that I was directing my plug for
Burns Tools to those that were not happy with Forrest and or those
looking for another source of an equally or better blade or service.
2- As for the art of hammering, let me give an example of an instance
that may prove both humorous and helpful.
One day I took my dad to the most exclusive men's store in my
area to pick up a suit jacket that I had to have altered. Upon
receiving it and putting it on, my dad noticed that there was a slight
imperfection on the back side of the shoulders. The salesman said that
he would call the "taylor" out to check on it. The taylor arrived and
began to examine the jacket. He stated: "what's wrong with it?"
Because I had it on I could not see the area in question but my dad
pointed it out to the taylor at least twice. The taylor stated again
that there was nothing wrong with it and made it appoint to tell us
that he was the taylor, as though we or at least my dad did not know
what he was talking about. WRONG. My dad was an older Italian who came
from a city of taylors that made both his and his brother's suits by
hand for years. Kaps of Lawrence and Louies of Boston. He knew what
"tayloring" was all about because he was used to the best. My dad was
very patient with this man and showed him where the fault was and the
taylor became irritated at us because we questioned him. Remember that
we are the customers and that we were in a very expensive store. Well
when the taylor was finished, my dad said to him...."You call yourself
a taylor? All the taylors are dead. All you are is an alterator." We
left without the coat. I should have gone to Kaps or Louies. A lot of
their clothes are imported from Italy and France where the art of
tayloring was still in existance. This was around 1981.

I am sure that there are some good taylors remaining in this country
somewhere but they are far and few. This is an art and most people
today are not interested in the tayloring business as it once was in
its hayday back in the old days. That era was replaced with mass
production where the personal touch had been taken away. Old timers
like dad that were used to high quality clothing could not accept the
average suit found in most stores so they kept going to to places like
Kaps or Louies and paid the price for fine tayloring. Most American
manufactures of high end clothing then had to import Italian taylors to
work in their factories along with immigrants from other countries that
had the talent to produce fine men's suits.

Now again, a lot of you will see the point here but there will be those
that will disect this apart and make all kinds of negative statements.
SO WHAT!

Point is that there may be some fine "hammerers" out there somewhere
but the majority of them are long gone. This is what I meant. I only
wanted the group to recognize this older man who is responsible for the
blades that most of you use even though it may be a Forrest or a Freud
or whatever. Don't get so picky will ya? Life is too short.
I am older that most of you here I am sure and because I raised two
boys I know what it is to listen to them tell me how old fashioned I am
and that they know more that good old dad. BULL. Wait until they get
to be my age. Then they'll get it and so will some here.
Cheers again,
Gusty


Duane Bozarth wrote:
Gusty wrote:

...
...about hand hammering blades which
is an art long gone. ...

Not hardly...

Don't doubt your Mr. Burns is an interesting ol' coot, but he's not
absolutely unique...

"Gusty" wrote in message

Don't get so picky will ya? Life is too short.

Life is indeed short and I, for one, am not picky at all ... particularly
when faced with such a display of consistency. AAMOF, I wouldn't think of
asking if that tailor's name was indeed, "Taylor", or remarking upon how
appropriate it was, if that were the case, that he got into the tailoring
game. I mean, you don't run across a tailor name Taylor everyday ...
remarkable, more or less.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/25/05

"Gusty" wrote in news:1114706117.577361.272270
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:



1-As I expected, there are those that must take any kind of an article
no matter how positive, pick it apart and look for some arguing point
or a negative comment to make.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!


when the taylor was finished, my dad said to him...."You call yourself
a taylor? All the taylors are dead. All you are is an alterator." We


I just pulled up www.switchboard.com. I see lot'sa Taylors.



manufactures of high end clothing then had to import Italian taylors to


Taylor's not an Italian name is it? Did it get "EllisIslanded"?

b.s.e.g.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:42:09 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

Gusty wrote:

...
...about hand hammering blades which
is an art long gone. ...

Not hardly...

Don't doubt your Mr. Burns is an interesting ol' coot, but he's not
absolutely unique...

True. My uncle John, and his son (John Jr.) still hand-hammer blades,
and as far as I can tell, they do a really fine job of it, Plenty of
small shops around that use old techniques as a matter of necessity.


Aut inveniam viam aut faciam