This company's customer service reps don't seem to be on the ball too well. I
called them to ask what happened to an order I placed earlier this week; the
guy who answered the phone said that the only person (!) who can look that up
is busy helping someone else. Took my number and promised to call back.

1 hr 15 min later, he calls. Says it was shipped out on the 13th via Priority
Mail. (I ordered it at 9:15 am on the 11th; the person who took the order said
it would be shipped that afternoon, and I should *receive* it on the 13th.
They're in Tennessee; I'm in Indiana; this is quite plausible.)

Asked him for the tracking number. He doesn't have it. He'll have to look it
up and call me back.

30 min later he calls with the number.

So I visit the USPS web site... and it does not appear that anything was
actually shipped:

Current Status

You entered 9101 xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx 62

The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper or shipping
partner on April 13, 2005 to expect your package for mailing. Information, if
available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

GRRRRRR. This is my first time doing business with this company. It might also
be the last.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

(Doug Miller) writes:
The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper
or shipping partner on April 13, 2005 to expect your package for
mailing. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please
check again later.

I have *never* gotten useful tracking information out of the USPS
tracking site. I basically get the message you got, right up until
the moment when I get the package (and often for a while afterwards
too). The USPS online tracking system is a joke.

On 15 Apr 2005 13:31:56 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:

(Doug Miller) writes:
The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper
or shipping partner on April 13, 2005 to expect your package for
mailing. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please
check again later.

I have *never* gotten useful tracking information out of the USPS
tracking site. I basically get the message you got, right up until
the moment when I get the package (and often for a while afterwards
too). The USPS online tracking system is a joke.

Yes, that matches my experience as well. UPS and Fedex have great
racking, USPS you might as well pretend doesn't exist. A status that
is several days behind reality is worse than useless.

Woodline makes the WORST router bits I've used. Brand new they cut as
if they were dull. I've got a set of straight bits. I have to exert a
lot more pressure than similar bits from Bosch and CMT. Plus they leave
a more ragged edge. Have you used their bits before this order?

Dave

Doug Miller wrote:

This company's customer service reps don't seem to be on the ball too well. I
called them to ask what happened to an order I placed earlier this week; the
guy who answered the phone said that the only person (!) who can look that up
is busy helping someone else. Took my number and promised to call back.

1 hr 15 min later, he calls. Says it was shipped out on the 13th via Priority
Mail. (I ordered it at 9:15 am on the 11th; the person who took the order said
it would be shipped that afternoon, and I should *receive* it on the 13th.
They're in Tennessee; I'm in Indiana; this is quite plausible.)

Asked him for the tracking number. He doesn't have it. He'll have to look it
up and call me back.

30 min later he calls with the number.

So I visit the USPS web site... and it does not appear that anything was
actually shipped:

Current Status

You entered 9101 xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx 62

The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper or shipping
partner on April 13, 2005 to expect your package for mailing. Information, if
available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

GRRRRRR. This is my first time doing business with this company. It might also
be the last.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"Dave Hinz" wrote

On 15 Apr 2005 13:31:56 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:

(Doug Miller) writes:
The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper
or shipping partner on April 13, 2005 to expect your package for
mailing. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please
check again later.

I have *never* gotten useful tracking information out of the USPS
tracking site. I basically get the message you got, right up until
the moment when I get the package (and often for a while afterwards
too). The USPS online tracking system is a joke.

Yes, that matches my experience as well. UPS and Fedex have great
racking, USPS you might as well pretend doesn't exist. A status that
is several days behind reality is worse than useless.

Their ovenight "express mail" also sucks.

I once sent an important package containing important, time sensitive
documents by express mail to a location several hundred miles away. The
package skipped and jumped all around the country for several days until it
finally arrived at its proper distination. I spent hours each day trying to
resolve the situation.

They told me that they would be happy to refund my money. Big deal.

It would have got there faster if I had sent it by runner or mule train.

Never again.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On 15 Apr 2005 13:31:56 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
I have *never* gotten useful tracking information out of the USPS
tracking site. I basically get the message you got, right up until
the moment when I get the package (and often for a while afterwards
too). The USPS online tracking system is a joke.

Yes, that matches my experience as well. UPS and Fedex have great
racking, USPS you might as well pretend doesn't exist. A status that
is several days behind reality is worse than useless.

Deja-vu.
Sent the pink slip for mom's old car out to a neighbor in CA so he could
sell it. Registered, return receipt was what I chose, because of the
tracking.

The envelope was delivered to the IRS at Fresno, rather than him in
Marysville, though it had been there two days before I finally found it on
the track. Called, got a number, then was told that the IRS employed an
"opening" service, and that as soon as they actually got it letter, they'd
forward it. Of course it was not listed as forwarded until two days after
Ken got it.

In article , DJ Delorie wrote:

(Doug Miller) writes:
The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper
or shipping partner on April 13, 2005 to expect your package for
mailing. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please
check again later.

I have *never* gotten useful tracking information out of the USPS
tracking site. I basically get the message you got, right up until
the moment when I get the package (and often for a while afterwards
too). The USPS online tracking system is a joke.

Our experiences differ considerably. The USPS online tracking isn't as good as
United Parcel Service's, but it's IMO light-years ahead of FedEx Home
Delivery. Most of the time, I've been able to get useful information from the
USPS, although it's not as timely as what UPS provides. The USPS has one
feature that both UPS and FedEx Home lack: they'll e-mail you every time the
status of a shipment changes.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:47:01 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , DJ Delorie wrote:

(Doug Miller) writes:
The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper
or shipping partner on April 13, 2005 to expect your package for
mailing. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please
check again later.

I have *never* gotten useful tracking information out of the USPS
tracking site. I basically get the message you got, right up until
the moment when I get the package (and often for a while afterwards
too). The USPS online tracking system is a joke.

Our experiences differ considerably. The USPS online tracking isn't as good as
United Parcel Service's, but it's IMO light-years ahead of FedEx Home
Delivery. Most of the time, I've been able to get useful information from the
USPS, although it's not as timely as what UPS provides. The USPS has one
feature that both UPS and FedEx Home lack: they'll e-mail you every time the
status of a shipment changes.

Which is great, _if_ those updates happen when the status of the package
actually change, rather than "OK, your package has been loaded on the truck"
as you're unpacking it post-delivery.

At least they're making an attempt, I suppose.

In article , David wrote:
Woodline makes the WORST router bits I've used. Brand new they cut as
if they were dull. I've got a set of straight bits. I have to exert a
lot more pressure than similar bits from Bosch and CMT. Plus they leave
a more ragged edge. Have you used their bits before this order?

No, never have. Before I ordered from them, I did Google the archives for
comments on the quality of their products, and I realize that they're
something of a crapshoot. Hopefully their shaper cutters are better than their
router bits...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , Dave Hinz wrote:

Which is great, _if_ those updates happen when the status of the package
actually change, rather than "OK, your package has been loaded on the truck"
as you're unpacking it post-delivery.

At least they're making an attempt, I suppose.

Well, it's better than what the competition offers:

- UPS has, AFAIK, absolutely no capacity for emailing tracking information.

- FedEx will email you exactly the same information you see on the web page.
If you want another email later, you have to visit the web page again and
generate another email. Useful if I want to sent the tracking information to
someone *else*, I suppose, but absolutely useless otherwise.

IMO, FedEx Home Delivery is far and away the worst package delivery service it
has ever been my misfortune to use. I'll *never* ship anything that way,
and I ask shippers not to send anything to me via them either. Their tracking
information is absolutely useless. Example: package shipped from SoCal to
Indy... tracking information shows when it was shipped. No updates whatsoever
for the next 2500 miles. No idea at all when the shipment will arrive - but
I'm supposed to be home to help unload? Another example: package shipped from
upstate NY to Indy. Again, no tracking information as it moves across the
eastern third of the country. After five days, tracking info shows a failed
delivery attempt at 6:30 pm. Liars - I was at home from 3pm onward. Next
evening, it shows a *second* "failed delivery attempt" at 7pm. Again, I was at
home. No attempt was made either time. More than once, I've had a "signature
required" package just left there by FedEx Home... and the tracking
information on the web shows it was "signed for" by Mr. F. Rontdoor. I hate
'em. *Much* rather use the USPS.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:
....
... Hopefully their shaper cutters are better than their
router bits...
....

Doug, I'd be most interested in hearing your thoughts/experiences
regarding the shaper cutters...not that Delta stopped production of
their line of cutters for 1/2" spindle shapers, I've been looking at
alternative sources also.

Thanks, Duane

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:47:01 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , DJ Delorie wrote:

(Doug Miller) writes:
The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper
or shipping partner on April 13, 2005 to expect your package for
mailing. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please
check again later.

I have *never* gotten useful tracking information out of the USPS
tracking site. I basically get the message you got, right up until
the moment when I get the package (and often for a while afterwards
too). The USPS online tracking system is a joke.

Our experiences differ considerably. The USPS online tracking isn't as good as
United Parcel Service's, but it's IMO light-years ahead of FedEx Home
Delivery. Most of the time, I've been able to get useful information from the
USPS, although it's not as timely as what UPS provides. The USPS has one
feature that both UPS and FedEx Home lack: they'll e-mail you every time the
status of a shipment changes.

I've had great luck with FedEx Home Delivery. The only problem I've ever
encountered is that the package often appears 1 day before it's scheduled
to be delivered


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

I have quite a few of their bits and several shaper cutters. They are much
better than the steel bits I used to use and have generated no complaints or
problems. I have made many rail/stile doors and edged them with the shaper.
Most have been hard oak and hickory. The company was in AZ when I started
buying, then CA, I think, and now in TN. Who knows if they have been bought
or why all the moving. I know Phil was the owner in AZ and went to CA, but
I haven't done any business with them in at least three years. I'm sure
it's hard to maintain continuity through all that moving. When I was
buying, they were a good bit (pun) cheaper than most of the others. I also
bought a SECO shaper, which is fine.
Wilson

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:
...
... Hopefully their shaper cutters are better than their
router bits...
...

Doug, I'd be most interested in hearing your thoughts/experiences
regarding the shaper cutters...not that Delta stopped production of
their line of cutters for 1/2" spindle shapers, I've been looking at
alternative sources also.

Thanks, Duane

Prometheus wrote:


IMO, FedEx Home Delivery is far and away the worst package delivery
service it has ever been my misfortune to use. I'll *never* ship anything
that way, and I ask shippers not to send anything to me via them either.
Their tracking information is absolutely useless. Example: package shipped
from SoCal to Indy... tracking information shows when it was shipped. No
updates whatsoever for the next 2500 miles. No idea at all when the
shipment will arrive - but I'm supposed to be home to help unload? Another
example: package shipped from upstate NY to Indy. Again, no tracking
information as it moves across the eastern third of the country. After
five days, tracking info shows a failed delivery attempt at 6:30 pm. Liars
- I was at home from 3pm onward. Next evening, it shows a *second* "failed
delivery attempt" at 7pm. Again, I was at home. No attempt was made either
time. More than once, I've had a "signature required" package just left
there by FedEx Home... and the tracking information on the web shows it
was "signed for" by Mr. F. Rontdoor. I hate 'em. *Much* rather use the
USPS.

Agreed. When We got my wife her scroll saw from Grizzly, it came via
FedEx, and they didn't arrive before I had to leave for work, so I
left a note on the door asking them to slide it under the garage door.
When we got home, it was sitting on top of my table saw in the
basement. I live in a very small town with retired folks on all sides
of me, so I don't generally bother to lock the basement door (you have
to go through the garage to get to the sucker)- but evidently the
delivery guy couldn't understand the conceptual difference between
sliding a package under a door into the *garage* and coming inside my
house and looking around a bit. Needless to say, that door is locked
tightly every time I leave now. Might just have been a helpful fella
who had to take a leak, and nothing was stolen- but it sure as hell
made me mad. Now I have to worry that some random SOB knows exactly
what I've got in my shop, and might decide to come back someday when
he wants to suppliment his income a little. You'd think a
"professional" would know better than to enter private property
without permission.

Uh, if you don't want people to enter your house, then you need to lock the
door. I see no reason to be angry with FedEx over this.

If it's a neighborhood that is safe enough to leave your doors unlocked then
what's the objection to his just leaving it on the doorstep?

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Lay the wood and build on it. There's no messing with close fits or
moulding! There's also no messing with big sanding machines trying to get
close to the bookcase.
Wilson
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
This company's customer service reps don't seem to be on the ball too
well. I
called them to ask what happened to an order I placed earlier this week;
the
guy who answered the phone said that the only person (!) who can look that
up
is busy helping someone else. Took my number and promised to call back.

1 hr 15 min later, he calls. Says it was shipped out on the 13th via
Priority
Mail. (I ordered it at 9:15 am on the 11th; the person who took the order
said
it would be shipped that afternoon, and I should *receive* it on the 13th.
They're in Tennessee; I'm in Indiana; this is quite plausible.)

Asked him for the tracking number. He doesn't have it. He'll have to look
it
up and call me back.

30 min later he calls with the number.

So I visit the USPS web site... and it does not appear that anything was
actually shipped:

Current Status

You entered 9101 xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx 62

The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper or
shipping
partner on April 13, 2005 to expect your package for mailing. Information,
if
available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

GRRRRRR. This is my first time doing business with this company. It might
also
be the last.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

IMO, FedEx Home Delivery is far and away the worst package delivery service it
has ever been my misfortune to use. I'll *never* ship anything that way,
and I ask shippers not to send anything to me via them either. Their tracking
information is absolutely useless. Example: package shipped from SoCal to
Indy... tracking information shows when it was shipped. No updates whatsoever
for the next 2500 miles. No idea at all when the shipment will arrive - but
I'm supposed to be home to help unload? Another example: package shipped from
upstate NY to Indy. Again, no tracking information as it moves across the
eastern third of the country. After five days, tracking info shows a failed
delivery attempt at 6:30 pm. Liars - I was at home from 3pm onward. Next
evening, it shows a *second* "failed delivery attempt" at 7pm. Again, I was at
home. No attempt was made either time. More than once, I've had a "signature
required" package just left there by FedEx Home... and the tracking
information on the web shows it was "signed for" by Mr. F. Rontdoor. I hate
'em. *Much* rather use the USPS.

Agreed. When We got my wife her scroll saw from Grizzly, it came via
FedEx, and they didn't arrive before I had to leave for work, so I
left a note on the door asking them to slide it under the garage door.
When we got home, it was sitting on top of my table saw in the
basement. I live in a very small town with retired folks on all sides
of me, so I don't generally bother to lock the basement door (you have
to go through the garage to get to the sucker)- but evidently the
delivery guy couldn't understand the conceptual difference between
sliding a package under a door into the *garage* and coming inside my
house and looking around a bit. Needless to say, that door is locked
tightly every time I leave now. Might just have been a helpful fella
who had to take a leak, and nothing was stolen- but it sure as hell
made me mad. Now I have to worry that some random SOB knows exactly
what I've got in my shop, and might decide to come back someday when
he wants to suppliment his income a little. You'd think a
"professional" would know better than to enter private property
without permission.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:03:43 -0700, the inscrutable Mark & Juanita
spake:

I've had great luck with FedEx Home Delivery. The only problem I've ever
encountered is that the package often appears 1 day before it's scheduled
to be delivered

I thought FedEx was the quickest but my LVT package just took 11 days
to reach me. It was scheduled for Saturday delivery on the useless
tracking site FedEX provides but didn't get here until TUESDAY.

UPS is the only one who has a decent tracking system where you can
follow the package as it makes its way across country.

My choice of (inbound and outbound) shipper is USPS Priority Mail
with (totally untrackable until after it's delivered) confirmation.
Second (mostly for books) is Media Mail, where you can ship a nice
Hernia Edition dictionary or McMasters catalog across the country for
a mere couple of bucks.


-------------------------------------------------------
"i" before "e", except after "c", what a weird society.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
....
... Hopefully their shaper cutters are better than their
router bits...
....

Doug, I'd be most interested in hearing your thoughts/experiences
regarding the shaper cutters...not that Delta stopped production of
their line of cutters for 1/2" spindle shapers, I've been looking at
alternative sources also.

Will do - it did arrive yesterday afternoon, and I might be putting it to use
as early as today. I'll post my opinions in a separate thread.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
....
... Hopefully their shaper cutters are better than their
router bits...
....

Doug, I'd be most interested in hearing your thoughts/experiences
regarding the shaper cutters...not that Delta stopped production of
their line of cutters for 1/2" spindle shapers, I've been looking at
alternative sources also.

Will do - it did arrive yesterday afternoon, and I might be putting it to use
as early as today. I'll post my opinions in a separate thread.

That'd be good...I'll add what I learn about the various I've tried/have
to try...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Uh, if you don't want people to enter your house, then you need to lock
the
door. I see no reason to be angry with FedEx over this.



Agreed.
At one time I received freight almost daily to my home. So I gave the UPS
driver a key to my garage. After that all my freight was neatly stacked in
side the garage door. Never a problem.
Greg

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:52:51 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , David wrote:
Woodline makes the WORST router bits I've used. Brand new they cut as
if they were dull. I've got a set of straight bits. I have to exert a
lot more pressure than similar bits from Bosch and CMT. Plus they leave
a more ragged edge. Have you used their bits before this order?

No, never have. Before I ordered from them, I did Google the archives for
comments on the quality of their products, and I realize that they're
something of a crapshoot. Hopefully their shaper cutters are better than their
router bits...

For hobby level use, I've had very good results with Grizzly shaper
cutters. I suspect they probably would be found lacking for someone doing
production runs of cuts, but for small amounts, they cut well and are
priced right.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Mark & Juanita writes:


[...]

For hobby level use, I've had very good results with Grizzly shaper
cutters. I suspect they probably would be found lacking for someone doing

You have a fully automatic power feeder shaper just for hobby use?
Just had a look at the Grizzly web site and did not see any chip
thickness limiter on the shaper cutters, thus disqualifying them for
manual and even semi-manual feeding (Thats of course if you apply
german regulations...).

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:35:57 +0200, Juergen Hannappel
wrote:

Mark & Juanita writes:


[...]

For hobby level use, I've had very good results with Grizzly shaper
cutters. I suspect they probably would be found lacking for someone doing

You have a fully automatic power feeder shaper just for hobby use?
Just had a look at the Grizzly web site and did not see any chip
thickness limiter on the shaper cutters, thus disqualifying them for
manual and even semi-manual feeding (Thats of course if you apply
german regulations...).

Since I don't live in a nanny state, there is no requirement that I have
a fully automatic power feeder shaper for home use. :-)

OTOH, when using the shaper, I make sure the cuts are set up with
appropriate hold-downs and featherboards. My "chip thickness limiter" is
the fence and appropriate common sense when working with this machine.

In the future, I will probably try to add a power feeder, both for the
added safety and the increased uniformity of cut.

I chose to add a shaper to my shop rather than a router table because a)
I don't like the screaming-banshee noise that a router produces and b) by
the time I put together a good router table with desired flatness and fence
capability, I would be pretty close to the cost of a good Chiwanese shaper
with flat table, quiet motor, excellent height adjustability, and the
ability to run both shaper and router bits.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...
You have a fully automatic power feeder shaper just for hobby use?
Just had a look at the Grizzly web site and did not see any chip
thickness limiter on the shaper cutters, thus disqualifying them for
manual and even semi-manual feeding (Thats of course if you apply
german regulations...).

A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact 30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?

"George" george@least writes:

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...
You have a fully automatic power feeder shaper just for hobby use?
Just had a look at the Grizzly web site and did not see any chip
thickness limiter on the shaper cutters, thus disqualifying them for
manual and even semi-manual feeding (Thats of course if you apply
german regulations...).

A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact 30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?

A saw blade makes contact even more often and still produce nasty
kickback!

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

George wrote:

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...
You have a fully automatic power feeder shaper just for hobby use?
Just had a look at the Grizzly web site and did not see any chip
thickness limiter on the shaper cutters, thus disqualifying them for
manual and even semi-manual feeding (Thats of course if you apply
german regulations...).

A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact 30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?

Quite easily w/ freehand shaping if not careful starting the
cut...essentially w/ a three-wing cutter of the old style there's no
limit on the depth of cut beyond the length of the cutter wing. An
inattentive operator or an improper setup can be nasty.

In article , Mark & Juanita wrote:
For hobby level use, I've had very good results with Grizzly shaper
cutters. I suspect they probably would be found lacking for someone doing
production runs of cuts, but for small amounts, they cut well and are
priced right.

I have a couple of the Grizzly cutters too, and so far I'm satisfied with
them. I would've bought from Griz this time, too, but they didn't have the
profile I wanted.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...
A saw blade makes contact even more often and still produce nasty
kickback!

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

I take it you're not a physics type?

The issue is feeding more wood more rapidly than the cutter can remove.
Doesn't take much to see that is not the same as binding and carrying on a
sawblade.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...
You have a fully automatic power feeder shaper just for hobby use?
Just had a look at the Grizzly web site and did not see any chip
thickness limiter on the shaper cutters, thus disqualifying them for
manual and even semi-manual feeding (Thats of course if you apply
german regulations...).

A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact
30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?

Quite easily w/ freehand shaping if not careful starting the
cut...essentially w/ a three-wing cutter of the old style there's no
limit on the depth of cut beyond the length of the cutter wing. An
inattentive operator or an improper setup can be nasty.

That's throwing it into the blade. Anyone but a European uses a starting
pin or a fence.

George wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...
You have a fully automatic power feeder shaper just for hobby use?
Just had a look at the Grizzly web site and did not see any chip
thickness limiter on the shaper cutters, thus disqualifying them for
manual and even semi-manual feeding (Thats of course if you apply
german regulations...).

A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact
30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?

Quite easily w/ freehand shaping if not careful starting the
cut...essentially w/ a three-wing cutter of the old style there's no
limit on the depth of cut beyond the length of the cutter wing. An
inattentive operator or an improper setup can be nasty.

That's throwing it into the blade. Anyone but a European uses a starting
pin or a fence.

Well, even w/ a starting pin it's possible easily enough to get going a
little too quickly initially...I've used one for nearly 30 years and
have done a lot of pattern-following shaping and still get a little
feeling when start on a new batch the first time after a while away from
it...

I've never gotten injured at all, but have ruined a workpiece or two...

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:08:25 -0400, "George" george@least wrote:


"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...
You have a fully automatic power feeder shaper just for hobby use?
Just had a look at the Grizzly web site and did not see any chip
thickness limiter on the shaper cutters, thus disqualifying them for
manual and even semi-manual feeding (Thats of course if you apply
german regulations...).

A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact 30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?


Shaper runs about 10k to 12k rpm.

As far as free-hand, one should always use a bearing (rub collar) and
starter pin. If not doing a free-hand cut, the fence serves as the depth
limiter. One other source for kickback is inadvertently twisting the piece
such that a machined profile is moved into another portion of the blade, or
pinches. Shapers have *real* 3 hp, so the piece is going to go shooting
backward. OTOH, the same kind of issue can occur with a router in a router
table, so this is kind of a safety wash so to speak when comparing router
in table and shaper.


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Mark & Juanita wrote:
....
A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact 30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?


Shaper runs about 10k to 12k rpm.
....

Yep, and 3 times that for a 3-lip cutter is 30-36k cuts/min...just what
George was speaking of...

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:06:47 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:
...
A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact 30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?


Shaper runs about 10k to 12k rpm.
...

Yep, and 3 times that for a 3-lip cutter is 30-36k cuts/min...just what
George was speaking of...

Doh! [note to self, spend a bit more time reading original posting to
avoid slinking off into corner]




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:06:47 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:
...
A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact
30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?


Shaper runs about 10k to 12k rpm.
...

Yep, and 3 times that for a 3-lip cutter is 30-36k cuts/min...just what
George was speaking of...

Doh! [note to self, spend a bit more time reading original posting to
avoid slinking off into corner]

That minor oversight is OK with me... This as I liked your reasoning for
getting a shaper instead of a router table... I did the same thing. :-)

John

A larger cutter on a shaper would probably be set to 8k rpm, with two
blades. The funny thing is the smaller ones I spin at 10k, are three
bladed with limiters. It is a real thrill hand feeding a 4 to 5 inch
diameter shaper cutter! I am a hobby person too, but I sure would like a
bigger power feeder. I have the little weeny one. It works ok for a lot
of stuff though. Just a pain to set up.

Duane Bozarth wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:
...

A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact 30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?


Shaper runs about 10k to 12k rpm.

...

Yep, and 3 times that for a 3-lip cutter is 30-36k cuts/min...just what
George was speaking of...

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:03:15 -0400, Jules
wrote:


Duane Bozarth wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:
...

A puzzlement. How can you overfeed something making contact 30,000/45,000
times per minute, short of throwing it into the whirling cutter?


Shaper runs about 10k to 12k rpm.

...

Yep, and 3 times that for a 3-lip cutter is 30-36k cuts/min...just what
George was speaking of...

A larger cutter on a shaper would probably be set to 8k rpm, with two
blades. The funny thing is the smaller ones I spin at 10k, are three
bladed with limiters. It is a real thrill hand feeding a 4 to 5 inch
diameter shaper cutter! I am a hobby person too, but I sure would like a
bigger power feeder. I have the little weeny one. It works ok for a lot
of stuff though. Just a pain to set up.


Which feeder do you have? What makes it a pain to set up? I guess I'm
asking for any kind of recommendations you have about what you would do the
same or different when selecting a feeder and setting it up.

Thanks for any information.







+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+