Hi all,

I'm adding new trim to all the doors in my house. The material is flat
1x4 MDF. Since the trim is flat, I thought it would look cleaner with
no reveal. But that means I need to cut back the trim around the
hinges.

I'm wondering about a couple of things the collective experience may
know.

a.) How important is the reveal? Is my clean approach stupid for some
reason other than the fact that you need to cut around the hinges.

b.) What is the best tool to get the cleanest cut out for the hinge.

Thanks,

-bryan

Try your question on alt.home.repair

I'm adding new trim to all the doors in my house. The material is flat
1x4 MDF. Since the trim is flat, I thought it would look cleaner with
no reveal. But that means I need to cut back the trim around the
hinges.

I'm wondering about a couple of things the collective experience may
know.

a.) How important is the reveal? Is my clean approach stupid for some
reason other than the fact that you need to cut around the hinges.

b.) What is the best tool to get the cleanest cut out for the hinge.

I am not a fan of MDF for molding. It is easily damaged and hard to repair.
A reveal is an architectural detail used because you'll never get the trim
at the same plane as the door frame.

I personally would re-think it.

"bryan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

I'm adding new trim to all the doors in my house. The material is flat
1x4 MDF. Since the trim is flat, I thought it would look cleaner with
no reveal. But that means I need to cut back the trim around the
hinges.

I'm wondering about a couple of things the collective experience may
know.

a.) How important is the reveal? Is my clean approach stupid for some
reason other than the fact that you need to cut around the hinges.

b.) What is the best tool to get the cleanest cut out for the hinge.

Thanks,

-bryan


Cutting around the hinge will not look good at all, nor will setting it
flush with the jamb. I recommend setting the trim againsed the hinge and
then back off a bit (1/32) and consider that the reveal for the rest of the
frame.

I wouldn't use MDF as trim. Drywall & plaster generally isn't
perfectly aligned with the jamb & something that flat & thin will show
it off big time. I also agree with Buck that it damages too easy & is
too hard to repair.

Put a reveal around the edge. It gives you some slop to make things
look straight, plumb & square. It rarely is any of those things.
Usually fairly close, but a miter can magnify any imperfection.

I was taught the typical reveal was about an 1/8". We just used a
scribe with a pencil & set it for about 'that' much. I've seen places
where it was a little more or less, but I think 1/8" is about right.
Gives you plenty to nail with & lets you fool the eye into thinking the
jamb is perfect - which it never is. Something always twisted, bumped,
settled or shifted somewhere.

Jim

There seems to be a pretty big split between the MDF lovers and haters.
I to agree in that I think it damages easily and it looks like crap.
But if it's going to be painted with two or more coates of enamel both
become less of a consideration. The bottom line is wood is damned
expensive (damn hippies and paying 2x to 3x more to paint over it
feels like a crime. I'll take some comfort in knowing it's also cheap
to repair.

I wouldn't use MDF as trim. Drywall & plaster generally isn't
perfectly aligned with the jamb & something that flat & thin will show
it off big time. I also agree with Buck that it damages too easy & is
too hard to repair.

Put a reveal around the edge. It gives you some slop to make things
look straight, plumb & square. It rarely is any of those things.
Usually fairly close, but a miter can magnify any imperfection.

I was taught the typical reveal was about an 1/8". We just used a
scribe with a pencil & set it for about 'that' much. I've seen places
where it was a little more or less, but I think 1/8" is about right.
Gives you plenty to nail with & lets you fool the eye into thinking the
jamb is perfect - which it never is. Something always twisted, bumped,
settled or shifted somewhere.

I am not above cheating when doing trim work, since I don't have the
opportunity to practice as often as I'd like. I find this tool to be useful
in doing door and window casings.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...arden&n=507846

On 5 Apr 2005 11:11:25 -0700, "bryan"
wrote:


There seems to be a pretty big split between the MDF lovers and haters.
I to agree in that I think it damages easily and it looks like crap.
But if it's going to be painted with two or more coates of enamel both
become less of a consideration. The bottom line is wood is damned
expensive (damn hippies and paying 2x to 3x more to paint over it
feels like a crime. I'll take some comfort in knowing it's also cheap
to repair.

personally i hate MDF BUT to your question. the reveal usualy runs
around 1/4 " it allows the hinges to function properly. it also give a
caulk line. if you run trim flush to the jamb you will not be able to
properly caulk the crack. it will open up with changes in humidity and
temperature. it also adds detail to the trim work. hope this helps
clear things up some.

skeez

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 19:57:47 GMT, skeezics wrote:

On 5 Apr 2005 11:11:25 -0700, "bryan"
wrote:


There seems to be a pretty big split between the MDF lovers and haters.
I to agree in that I think it damages easily and it looks like crap.
But if it's going to be painted with two or more coates of enamel both
become less of a consideration. The bottom line is wood is damned
expensive (damn hippies and paying 2x to 3x more to paint over it
feels like a crime. I'll take some comfort in knowing it's also cheap
to repair.

personally i hate MDF BUT to your question. the reveal usualy runs
around 1/4 " it allows the hinges to function properly. it also give a
caulk line. if you run trim flush to the jamb you will not be able to
properly caulk the crack. it will open up with changes in humidity and
temperature. it also adds detail to the trim work. hope this helps
clear things up some.

skeez

one more thing here. if you rum trim flush your strike for the lock
will not fit either. the lip of the strike will have to be releived in
addition to cutting out the hinges. and the latch of the door lock
will wear on the trim in short order. it will hit the trim before it
hits the strike

skeez

It appears that all the contractors around here use mdf trim in their spec
houses. It's a lot cheaper than wood trim. I guess they don't care as long
as they can make more bucks. I had a water line on my frig spring a leak
behind the refrig and it ruined the base trim that was mdf and caused it to
swell up out of shape. It looks like that crap is made out of ground up
newspaper with resin. Personally I would not use that ****.


"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't use MDF as trim. Drywall & plaster generally isn't
perfectly aligned with the jamb & something that flat & thin will show
it off big time. I also agree with Buck that it damages too easy & is
too hard to repair.

Put a reveal around the edge. It gives you some slop to make things
look straight, plumb & square. It rarely is any of those things.
Usually fairly close, but a miter can magnify any imperfection.

I was taught the typical reveal was about an 1/8". We just used a
scribe with a pencil & set it for about 'that' much. I've seen places
where it was a little more or less, but I think 1/8" is about right.
Gives you plenty to nail with & lets you fool the eye into thinking the
jamb is perfect - which it never is. Something always twisted, bumped,
settled or shifted somewhere.

I am not above cheating when doing trim work, since I don't have the
opportunity to practice as often as I'd like. I find this tool to be
useful
in doing door and window casings.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...arden&n=507846

Bryan,

I'm surprised no one has suggested an alternative to use for the trim but
there are several alternatives that are less costly than most wood trim but
a bit more expensive than MDF. I would suggest that if you do use MDF,
shape it using router bits so it looks like wood trim - including relieving
the back side. As someone mentioned, the trim and frame will not be in the
same plane (flat) and the purpose of the trim is to hide that fact. Notice
how most trim is shaped at an angle and relieved on the back side so it will
lay flatter on the adjoining frame.

The reveal provides a shadow line and eases the transition from trim to
frame. The reasons will be more obvious to you when you find that the frame
you're trimming is most likely not flat, plum nor parallel. The door strike
and hinges will look weird as hell if you use your method and your wife will
either be telling you aloud or screaming inside, "Take that trim off !".

The alternatives to wood and MDF are paintable and some are even stainable,
vinyl covered wood (finger-jointed sections), solid vinyl or other "plastic
like" composites which are molded and some even embossed with wood grain and
can be painted. Look in your local borg and see what other options are
available at reasonable cost.

Unless you seal the MDF on all sides and ends before installing, it will
absorb moisture and swell over time. Once you start priming and painting -
you're gonna love sanding all the fuzzies down. In the end, you may end up
paying more in time and materials for the MDF trim than buying some other
alternative.

Bob S.





"bryan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

I'm adding new trim to all the doors in my house. The material is flat
1x4 MDF. Since the trim is flat, I thought it would look cleaner with
no reveal. But that means I need to cut back the trim around the
hinges.

I'm wondering about a couple of things the collective experience may
know.

a.) How important is the reveal? Is my clean approach stupid for some
reason other than the fact that you need to cut around the hinges.

b.) What is the best tool to get the cleanest cut out for the hinge.

Thanks,

-bryan

"bryan" wrote in message
oups.com...

There seems to be a pretty big split between the MDF lovers and haters.
I to agree in that I think it damages easily and it looks like crap.
But if it's going to be painted with two or more coates of enamel both
become less of a consideration. The bottom line is wood is damned
expensive (damn hippies and paying 2x to 3x more to paint over it
feels like a crime. I'll take some comfort in knowing it's also cheap
to repair.


Who loves the MDF besides the contractors? Assuming it saves them money on
low-end houses.

Is it really cheaper than a simple pine molding? Hard to imagine, although
maybe it varies around the country. I'll try to remember to look next time
I'm in the local borg.

Keith Carlson wrote:


Who loves the MDF besides the contractors? Assuming it saves them money on
low-end houses.

Is it really cheaper than a simple pine molding?

Think movement.

I use MDF in my own home, when I'm painting. Most of the trim I've
installed is stain grade hardwood. MDF rarely moves and is much easier
to work and install than pine.

Tne only places I shy away from MDF in paint grade work is where
moisture might be a factor and structural parts. For those, I'll
usually use lower grade maple, birch, or get this, PLASTICS.

Barry

"BobS" wrote in message
...
Bryan,


Unless you seal the MDF on all sides and ends before installing, it will
absorb moisture and swell over time. Once you start priming and painting -
you're gonna love sanding all the fuzzies down. In the end, you may end
up
paying more in time and materials for the MDF trim than buying some other
alternative.

Bob S.



About four years ago I finished our downstairs family room and bath. I used
MDF for all the trim as I was painting it any way. I found it easy to
install and paint, and it has held up well.
One place where I bashed it while moving some furniture I repaired with a
couple of coats of latex spackle, sanded and painted it. The repair is
impossible to find.
If I had used stained wood I would of had to replace to trim.
Greg

Bryan , If you trim flush with the jamb it can be a problem removing
the hing pins if you ever need too.. You would have to get longer
stricker plates also..
Tom

I personally don't like pine that much either; it's hard to get a
clean finish with wood that knotty. I'd probably go poplar if I went
the wood route. Also, I'm not sure where you live but here in the NW,
contractors use MDF on just about every new contruction, not just the
low end stuff. In fact, I had two contractors out to bid on this trim
work and they both insisted that real wood was a waste of money for
trim thats getting painted. Another contractor, bidding on our new
fireplace mantel also insisted that MDF was the way to go.

I personally don't like pine that much either; it's hard to get a
clean finish with wood that knotty. I'd probably go poplar if I went
the wood route. Also, I'm not sure where you live but here in the NW,
contractors use MDF on just about every new contruction, not just the
low end stuff. In fact, I had two contractors out to bid on this trim
work and they both insisted that real wood was a waste of money for
trim thats getting painted. Another contractor, bidding on our new
fireplace mantel also insisted that MDF was the way to go.