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Any help for a newbe
I bought a 40 year old Shop Smith two weeks ago and have been experimenting
with the lathe - something I've always wanted. I figure that I must be doing something wrong and I would appreciate a little advice. My wood "bounces" as I shave it. Of course it's worse in the middle of the piece and especially on the longer pieces. I also can't seem to get it centered on the lathe. I have been finding the center by drawing a line across the corners of the piece. X marks the spot so to speak. Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. Any help would be appreciated. -- Martin "10sc" Mears S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A. Harmony in song brings harmony to life. |
"10sc" wrote: My wood "bounces" as I shave it.(clip) Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If the piece is long and slender, you are going to have trouble on the middle unsupported part. This can be made worse if the piece is not straight. The solution would be to use a "steady rest," but, since you are just starting out, I suggest, instead, that you work on shorter pieces. (i.e., instead of table legs, make candle holders.) As far as centering the ends is concerned, the procedure you describe is correct. If you center the spur drive and tail stock center, the wood should run true. If you are not getting it perfectly centered, of course, there will be a little wobble at first. But it should true up as you remove wood. If this is not happening, check to see whether something on the lathe is bent. |
Leo's advice is good (as usual). Something I do differently, though...
If you do flat work, you probably have a marking gage. If so, and if you are starting out with square blanks (or near square) set the marking gage to slightly over half the width of the blanks. Then make 4 marks, one from each side, on an end. That will give you a small square in the middle and from there it is easy to eyeball a mark (with an awl) in the center of the small square. I find that finding the real corners of the blank (the 'x' method) can be difficult and just a little error causes problems. My way is far more accurate -- in my hands at least. Bill Leo Lichtman wrote: "10sc" wrote: My wood "bounces" as I shave it.(clip) Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If the piece is long and slender, you are going to have trouble on the middle unsupported part. This can be made worse if the piece is not straight. The solution would be to use a "steady rest," but, since you are just starting out, I suggest, instead, that you work on shorter pieces. (i.e., instead of table legs, make candle holders.) As far as centering the ends is concerned, the procedure you describe is correct. If you center the spur drive and tail stock center, the wood should run true. If you are not getting it perfectly centered, of course, there will be a little wobble at first. But it should true up as you remove wood. If this is not happening, check to see whether something on the lathe is bent. |
It sounds like you are turning spindles, like spokes, handles, etc. A
rule of thumb is 10 to 1 ratio. A spindle that is 10 inches long needs to be 1 inch in diameter, or it will start to vibrate, or wobble, because that is how much mass it needs to be steady. There are some tricks to turning thinner than that ratio, such as a steady rest. Play around for a while, get some books, find a local club, have fun. robo hippy Bill Rubenstein wrote: Leo's advice is good (as usual). Something I do differently, though... If you do flat work, you probably have a marking gage. If so, and if you are starting out with square blanks (or near square) set the marking gage to slightly over half the width of the blanks. Then make 4 marks, one from each side, on an end. That will give you a small square in the middle and from there it is easy to eyeball a mark (with an awl) in the center of the small square. I find that finding the real corners of the blank (the 'x' method) can be difficult and just a little error causes problems. My way is far more accurate -- in my hands at least. Bill Leo Lichtman wrote: "10sc" wrote: My wood "bounces" as I shave it.(clip) Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If the piece is long and slender, you are going to have trouble on the middle unsupported part. This can be made worse if the piece is not straight. The solution would be to use a "steady rest," but, since you are just starting out, I suggest, instead, that you work on shorter pieces. (i.e., instead of table legs, make candle holders.) As far as centering the ends is concerned, the procedure you describe is correct. If you center the spur drive and tail stock center, the wood should run true. If you are not getting it perfectly centered, of course, there will be a little wobble at first. But it should true up as you remove wood. If this is not happening, check to see whether something on the lathe is bent. |
Hei Martin,
Welcome to the mad world. A couple of sites you may like to check out http://www.aroundthewoods.com/index.shtml http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/index.php?s= The first is for a guy called Darrell Feltmate and has a heap of info, the second one is an aussie forum but well worth joining and even searchable. The best advice I can give you though is that you should join a club in your area - apart what you will learn it's great to see what others are up to. Cheers Paul On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 03:21:48 GMT, "10sc" wrote: I bought a 40 year old Shop Smith two weeks ago and have been experimenting with the lathe - something I've always wanted. I figure that I must be doing something wrong and I would appreciate a little advice. My wood "bounces" as I shave it. Of course it's worse in the middle of the piece and especially on the longer pieces. I also can't seem to get it centered on the lathe. I have been finding the center by drawing a line across the corners of the piece. X marks the spot so to speak. Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. Any help would be appreciated. Unless otherwise stated all references to location refer to Western Australia |
From one newbie to another...
Bill Rubenstein wrote: Leo's advice is good (as usual). Something I do differently, though... If you do flat work, you probably have a marking gage. If so, and if you are starting out with square blanks (or near square) set the marking gage to slightly over half the width of the blanks. Then make 4 marks, one from each side, on an end. That will give you a small square in the middle and from there it is easy to eyeball a mark (with an awl) in the center of the small square. I find that finding the real corners of the blank (the 'x' method) can be difficult and just a little error causes problems. My way is far more accurate -- in my hands at least. Bill I do a variation of Bill's method using a 90/45 deg. Stanley square -- quickly cycling through the corners and drawing a line.. A little square usually develops as he noted. The last few spindles I did were 1" and 3/4 " max. diameter and 15" in length to 16" in length -- so probably a little "thin". They definitely developed some middle area wobble. You might also try taking care to remove wood in a symmetric fashion on these small spindles. I did not take the time to make accurate estimates of wobble after deciding to do this (no wood to waste) but I believe that it helps despite the lack of measurements to back up my guesswork. So even during the roughing phase now, my first step is to get a symmetric, round blank as quickly as possible -- then I actually feel for vibration along the blank. If I have any -- it is not as symmetric as I would like... As the piece becomes "smoother" I increase the speed of rotation as well. The while roughing out the form -- again I try to move from side to side and keep it symmetric. The in the finishing phase -- the same exercise. It _seems_ to help. Use a "smoothing stick". This is just a rectangular piece of wood of wood - the same length approx. as the decorative portion of the spindle. You apply crayon - apply it against the entire decorative portion and check for high spots by applying it to the "round" blank. Note that I keep the mating surfaces (or "waste areas" on candle sticks) at the end a little lower always than the decorative portion. They are going to be smaller anyway, and then my smoothing stick does not whack on the ends and get flung at me. Before turning every piece I plane the bottom edge of the stick to restore the smooth surface, then add the crayon. This method is mentioned in some of the turning books -- but most don't go into enough detail on how to get the most utility from the tool. IMO As for the remaining 63 crayons in the box? My SWOB says I can use them to compose my philosophical postings and to draft business letters and business proposals. So nothing is wasted. Now I just need a crayon sharpener so they make a good impression... There are other issues on spindles. This is _Very Important_ . (... and any old timer who giggles will be hunted down and whacked with a wet, slimy noodle.) 1. If the spindle is going to be mated to anything (stuck into another spindle, table leg etc...) _Check your available drill sizes._ I assumed -- only once -- that I could adjust to whatever size I spun on the lathe. Oooopss! A micrometer is your friend when you do the "end pieces" where you will mate it with something. Use a micrometer, take your time and get _exactly_ the desired result. Say 1/2 or 3/4 inches -- with the tiniest of tapers so it mates in your drill hole. 2. Pay _real close attention_ to determining the total length of the center area versus the length of the mating areas at the end. Have you allowed for some variance in _all_ the pieces? The safest thing is that the centre decorative portion be a "little" shorter than actually required, and that the mating cylinders at the end be a little longer. Then you can adjust things at the dry-fit stage. Note that in Item 2 if you make a 1/8 error on each spindle _end_ - that is a 1/4 inch error per spindle, and a 1 inch error on a 4 spindle design that "circles" the bottom of the chair. These last points may of course be far less important on lamps and candle stick holders -- unless you have mating pieces. The above points are more about design, but even when following a plan you can give yourself some wiggle room by a bit of advance planning. Hope that helps as well. You can see my setup on my web site -- see sig at end. Leo Lichtman wrote: "10sc" wrote: My wood "bounces" as I shave it.(clip) Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If the piece is long and slender, you are going to have trouble on the middle unsupported part. This can be made worse if the piece is not straight. The solution would be to use a "steady rest," but, since you are just starting out, I suggest, instead, that you work on shorter pieces. (i.e., instead of table legs, make candle holders.) As far as centering the ends is concerned, the procedure you describe is correct. If you center the spur drive and tail stock center, the wood should run true. If you are not getting it perfectly centered, of course, there will be a little wobble at first. But it should true up as you remove wood. If this is not happening, check to see whether something on the lathe is bent. -- Will Occasional Techno-geek http://woodwork.pmccl.com |
Bill Rubenstein wrote:
If you do flat work, you probably have a marking gage. If so, and if you are starting out with square blanks (or near square) set the marking gage to slightly over half the width of the blanks. Then make 4 marks, one from each side, on an end. That will give you a small square in the middle and from there it is easy to eyeball a mark (with an awl) in the center of the small square. This is the method I use for both speed and accuracy. I would add though that it DOES work for pieces that AREN'T square. It will find the center that gives the largest possible circle. One thing that may cause Martin's work to be off center is that the points may wander off when the wood is mounted between centers. But from Martins comment that the effect is worse in the middle, I would guess there is too much tailstock pressure being applied and the spindle is bowing. When making spurtles ( length:diameter ratio = 25:1) I use a chuck to drive it and apply minimal tailstock presure. The other thing is that with only two weeks unguided experience I doubt that Martin has yet learnt to use the tools with the finesse and empathy that is required for this type of work. Keep at it Martin, and get some help! -- Derek Andrews, woodturner http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com http://chipshop.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/ |
Hi Martin,
Most spindles are slightly off center and will wobble at first. Turning the spindle will correct that quicker and easier than perfectly centering to begin. Unless, of course, there is absolutely no wood to waste. If the problem is vibration and wobble in the middle of a thin spindle, holding the blank in a chuck very firmly instead of by a spur center helps a lot. I don't know why. Our engineers will have to explain. Also be sure not to bow the spindle's middle with excessive tail center pressure. Welcome to rcw. Hope we helped to keep you and your Shop Smith in harmony. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Arch wrote:
Hi Martin, Most spindles are slightly off center and will wobble at first. Turning the spindle will correct that quicker and easier than perfectly centering to begin. Unless, of course, there is absolutely no wood to waste. If the problem is vibration and wobble in the middle of a thin spindle, holding the blank in a chuck very firmly instead of by a spur center helps a lot. I don't know why. Our engineers will have to explain. Also be sure not to bow the spindle's middle with excessive tail center pressure. Welcome to rcw. Hope we helped to keep you and your Shop Smith in harmony. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings Thanks to you and Derek who mentioned the tailstock pressure - it's easy to forget. Not that I need to correct mine. :-) As Derek mentioned(implied?) I think it is the "bow" getting amplified I am sure... I will test if turning faster or slower increases the wobble. My guess - before testing is that faster speeds give smoother cuts -- and increase any sympathetic vibrations (amplify the bow - and the bow is essentially an imbalance I guess). Resonance I guess... Maybe this is a use for the High Speed Flash on the camera.. Hmmm :-) Has anyone done a technical analysis which can be read -- to save time? -- Will Occasional Techno-geek http://woodwork.pmccl.com |
One other item I didn't see mentioned. Once the stick is round, start
cutting away the wood from the tailstock end. That leaves more wood, and stronger piece, between your chisel and the driving force of the headstock. You can also try taking smaller bites with the chisel. Sometimes helps. WaltC "10sc" wrote in message news:g5r%d.90549$Ze3.87046@attbi_s51... I bought a 40 year old Shop Smith two weeks ago and have been experimenting with the lathe - something I've always wanted. I figure that I must be doing something wrong and I would appreciate a little advice. My wood "bounces" as I shave it. Of course it's worse in the middle of the piece and especially on the longer pieces. I also can't seem to get it centered on the lathe. I have been finding the center by drawing a line across the corners of the piece. X marks the spot so to speak. Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. Any help would be appreciated. -- Martin "10sc" Mears S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A. Harmony in song brings harmony to life. |
"Arch" wrote: (clip) holding the blank in a chuck very firmly instead of by a spur center helps a lot. I don't know why. Our engineers will have to explain.(clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thanks for the invitation, Arch. You are correct--a chuck stiffens the piece of wood by holding one end on axis. A spur drive acts like a universal joint. However, from the OP's remarks, I doubt that he has a chuck at this beginning point in his career. And very does not have a steady rest either. After the piece has been made round and smooth, it is possible to damp vibrations by draping the fingers of one hand over the work. CAREFULLY, making sure that the direction of rotation UNWINDS the fingers, and not the other way. And don't wear a glove--that's dangerous. |
Hi Martin,
I agree with those who commented that there may be too much axial pressure on the workpiece. Also, there is an adjustment on the SS tailstock intended for off-center turning, and it may be that your headstock and tailstock centers aren't aligned. Remove the workpiece, slide the power unit all the way to the right, and extend the quill so that the two centers are almost touching. Loosen the set screw on the tailstock adjustment dial and rotate the dial until the points are perfectly aligned. If you don't have a SS user's manual, get one, as well as a book they sell called Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone, they're both invaluable references. B. "10sc" wrote in message news:g5r%d.90549$Ze3.87046@attbi_s51... I bought a 40 year old Shop Smith two weeks ago and have been experimenting with the lathe - something I've always wanted. I figure that I must be doing something wrong and I would appreciate a little advice. My wood "bounces" as I shave it. Of course it's worse in the middle of the piece and especially on the longer pieces. I also can't seem to get it centered on the lathe. I have been finding the center by drawing a line across the corners of the piece. X marks the spot so to speak. Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. Any help would be appreciated. -- Martin "10sc" Mears S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A. Harmony in song brings harmony to life. |
OUCH! Derek I think you hit it right on the head (at least part of my
problem). I've been making sure my material is TIGHT in the lathe. Live and learn right! I appreciate all the help folks. I've got several web sites now to check out for reference as well as this news group. When I get my first project completed, I'll post a pic here if you folks don't mind me asking for some constructive feedback. It will be a while though as I only have two spindles roughed and sanded so far. I'm a little slow and I need 9 or 10 more. I've got a problem with a small member of the family (a Schipperke) scooting by us when we open the door. She's a adventurer and won't come back until she's ready. SWMBO has "requested" I make a gate to go at the end of the little porch to stop her from getting away so easily. 10sc "Derek Andrews" wrote in message ... Bill Rubenstein wrote: If you do flat work, you probably have a marking gage. If so, and if you are starting out with square blanks (or near square) set the marking gage to slightly over half the width of the blanks. Then make 4 marks, one from each side, on an end. That will give you a small square in the middle and from there it is easy to eyeball a mark (with an awl) in the center of the small square. This is the method I use for both speed and accuracy. I would add though that it DOES work for pieces that AREN'T square. It will find the center that gives the largest possible circle. One thing that may cause Martin's work to be off center is that the points may wander off when the wood is mounted between centers. But from Martins comment that the effect is worse in the middle, I would guess there is too much tailstock pressure being applied and the spindle is bowing. When making spurtles ( length:diameter ratio = 25:1) I use a chuck to drive it and apply minimal tailstock presure. The other thing is that with only two weeks unguided experience I doubt that Martin has yet learnt to use the tools with the finesse and empathy that is required for this type of work. Keep at it Martin, and get some help! -- Derek Andrews, woodturner http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com http://chipshop.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/ |
I got this one. I did read the book (which amazed my wife) before I started
using it. Actually, since the SS is so old, I went through the book for maintenance procedures and what had to be done before using any particular tool. So I did see how to align the lathe. To be honest though. . . If the SS didn't look like it needed a little maint, I likely would not have opened the book so early in my woodturning career. After all - I know what I'm doing :o 10sc "Buddy Matlosz" wrote in message ... Hi Martin, I agree with those who commented that there may be too much axial pressure on the workpiece. Also, there is an adjustment on the SS tailstock intended for off-center turning, and it may be that your headstock and tailstock centers aren't aligned. Remove the workpiece, slide the power unit all the way to the right, and extend the quill so that the two centers are almost touching. Loosen the set screw on the tailstock adjustment dial and rotate the dial until the points are perfectly aligned. If you don't have a SS user's manual, get one, as well as a book they sell called Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone, they're both invaluable references. B. "10sc" wrote in message news:g5r%d.90549$Ze3.87046@attbi_s51... I bought a 40 year old Shop Smith two weeks ago and have been experimenting with the lathe - something I've always wanted. I figure that I must be doing something wrong and I would appreciate a little advice. My wood "bounces" as I shave it. Of course it's worse in the middle of the piece and especially on the longer pieces. I also can't seem to get it centered on the lathe. I have been finding the center by drawing a line across the corners of the piece. X marks the spot so to speak. Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. Any help would be appreciated. -- Martin "10sc" Mears S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A. Harmony in song brings harmony to life. |
Glad you found help for your problem. However, you can't post a photo here.
"10sc" wrote in message news:MdM%d.91708$r55.46452@attbi_s52... OUCH! Derek I think you hit it right on the head (at least part of my problem). I've been making sure my material is TIGHT in the lathe. Live and learn right! I appreciate all the help folks. I've got several web sites now to check out for reference as well as this news group. When I get my first project completed, I'll post a pic here if you folks don't mind me asking for some constructive feedback. It will be a while though as I only have two spindles roughed and sanded so far. I'm a little slow and I need 9 or 10 more. I've got a problem with a small member of the family (a Schipperke) scooting by us when we open the door. She's a adventurer and won't come back until she's ready. SWMBO has "requested" I make a gate to go at the end of the little porch to stop her from getting away so easily. 10sc "Derek Andrews" wrote in message ... Bill Rubenstein wrote: If you do flat work, you probably have a marking gage. If so, and if you are starting out with square blanks (or near square) set the marking gage to slightly over half the width of the blanks. Then make 4 marks, one from each side, on an end. That will give you a small square in the middle and from there it is easy to eyeball a mark (with an awl) in the center of the small square. This is the method I use for both speed and accuracy. I would add though that it DOES work for pieces that AREN'T square. It will find the center that gives the largest possible circle. One thing that may cause Martin's work to be off center is that the points may wander off when the wood is mounted between centers. But from Martins comment that the effect is worse in the middle, I would guess there is too much tailstock pressure being applied and the spindle is bowing. When making spurtles ( length:diameter ratio = 25:1) I use a chuck to drive it and apply minimal tailstock presure. The other thing is that with only two weeks unguided experience I doubt that Martin has yet learnt to use the tools with the finesse and empathy that is required for this type of work. Keep at it Martin, and get some help! -- Derek Andrews, woodturner http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com http://chipshop.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/ |
"10sc" wrote: (clip) SWMBO has "requested" I make a gate (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sounds like a worthy project. One of the challenges you have is making all the spindles the same. First, you should know that they don't heally HAVE to be perfectly alike, as long as they look the same after they are mounted. After all, YOU are the only one who will be able to hold them against each other for comparison. Another idea occurs to me: If you have two patterns, and alternate them in the finished gate, it will be REALLY hard for anyone to notice small variations. |
"Arch" wrote in message ... Hi Martin, SNIP ...... If the problem is vibration and wobble in the middle of a thin spindle, holding the blank in a chuck very firmly instead of by a spur center helps a lot. I don't know why. Our engineers will have to explain. Also be sure not to bow the spindle's middle with excessive tail center pressure. SNIP .......... ========================= Arch, I think the chuck drive is better than the spur drive due to the tendency of the spur to continually try to push itself out of the workpiece while the chuck holds it in a more rigid location. No scientific evidence, but it seems logical to me ...... which often doesn't mean to much! {:-)) Ken Moon Webberville, TX |
"Ken Moon" wrote: (clip) the tendency of the spur to continually try to push itself out of the workpiece while the chuck holds it in a more rigid location.(clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ken, since the drive faces of a spur drive are not angled, I don't think they develop any thrust of their own. But, your idea suggests another factor I had not previously thought of: for a drive center to work it has to have considerable force against the wood to remain seated. This force, coming from the tailstock, tends to bow the piece--this is why several people have suggested minimizing the tailstock pressure. Holding the work in a chuck, the tailstock can be touched into the dimple with virtually NO pressure. |
Thanks Leo and Ken, Good explanation. I I wonder if the chuck
compresses the wood fibers into a sort of monolithic spindle? Something like the cables that support bridges? Could this play any role in preventing a thin spindle from swaying in a vertical plane? Smiles are ok, but no loud laughing please. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
I have been turning things on my ShopSmith for nearly 20 years (mostly
bowls). The reason I am posting here is that I was so gratified to see all you people pitch in with ideas to help solve the problem without one person suggest that he quit trying and get a "real" lathe instead. Obviously I have been pretty satisfied with my unit and upgraded to the Universal Tool Rest that Shopsmith came out with a few years back. It has a nice design, weighs about 35 pounds which the SS can use. I also have upgraded to all High Speed Steel gouges and scrapers, bought a OneWay Stronghold chuck and a set of Jumbo Jaws. The new tool rest also allows me to use some of the heavier bowl tool rests from Grizzley and other suppliers. Everything really works nice for me. "10sc" wrote in message news:UoM%d.91722$r55.6232@attbi_s52... I got this one. I did read the book (which amazed my wife) before I started using it. Actually, since the SS is so old, I went through the book for maintenance procedures and what had to be done before using any particular tool. So I did see how to align the lathe. To be honest though. . . If the SS didn't look like it needed a little maint, I likely would not have opened the book so early in my woodturning career. After all - I know what I'm doing :o 10sc "Buddy Matlosz" wrote in message ... Hi Martin, I agree with those who commented that there may be too much axial pressure on the workpiece. Also, there is an adjustment on the SS tailstock intended for off-center turning, and it may be that your headstock and tailstock centers aren't aligned. Remove the workpiece, slide the power unit all the way to the right, and extend the quill so that the two centers are almost touching. Loosen the set screw on the tailstock adjustment dial and rotate the dial until the points are perfectly aligned. If you don't have a SS user's manual, get one, as well as a book they sell called Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone, they're both invaluable references. B. "10sc" wrote in message news:g5r%d.90549$Ze3.87046@attbi_s51... I bought a 40 year old Shop Smith two weeks ago and have been experimenting with the lathe - something I've always wanted. I figure that I must be doing something wrong and I would appreciate a little advice. My wood "bounces" as I shave it. Of course it's worse in the middle of the piece and especially on the longer pieces. I also can't seem to get it centered on the lathe. I have been finding the center by drawing a line across the corners of the piece. X marks the spot so to speak. Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. Any help would be appreciated. -- Martin "10sc" Mears S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A. Harmony in song brings harmony to life. |
Hi Martin & Bob,
I don't mean to scorn but I do believe that a shopsmith in lathe mode is at best a compromise. I once used a shopsmith and before that an AMT Heavy Duty (all AMTs were advertised as 'heavy duty', 'G') and before that a Sears Dunlap. I don't use them anymore, but I still enjoy keeping them in good condition. Senility? Then again much work that's light years better than mine, has been turned on that compromise. Same with Sear's tube beds. The work of Melvin Lindquist (SS), Darrell Feltmate and Ruth Niles (Sears tube beds) comes to mind. It's the turner that counts the most. Enjoy your Shopsmiths with no apology. You are in some very good company. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
I actually have 2 1/2 done. The half is my pattern - I just flip it over
for the other end (no distinguishable top or bottom that way). I made the first two from this pattern and they have to be fairly close together to see the differences. However, two patterns is a great idea! It'll also be a great way to break up the monotony of the same pattern over and over. Thanks Leo 10sc "Leo Lichtman" wrote in message ... "10sc" wrote: (clip) SWMBO has "requested" I make a gate (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sounds like a worthy project. One of the challenges you have is making all the spindles the same. First, you should know that they don't heally HAVE to be perfectly alike, as long as they look the same after they are mounted. After all, YOU are the only one who will be able to hold them against each other for comparison. Another idea occurs to me: If you have two patterns, and alternate them in the finished gate, it will be REALLY hard for anyone to notice small variations. |
From all the comments, it looks like a chuck is the way to go. But yowza!
I looked up the OneWay Stronghold you mentioned here. I realize that you get what you pay for. However, if I pay for that I'll get it (if you catch my drift). Any suggestions for a less expensive chuck or should I stay with the spur drive for the time being? 10sc "Bob Daun" wrote in message ... I have been turning things on my ShopSmith for nearly 20 years (mostly bowls). The reason I am posting here is that I was so gratified to see all you people pitch in with ideas to help solve the problem without one person suggest that he quit trying and get a "real" lathe instead. Obviously I have been pretty satisfied with my unit and upgraded to the Universal Tool Rest that Shopsmith came out with a few years back. It has a nice design, weighs about 35 pounds which the SS can use. I also have upgraded to all High Speed Steel gouges and scrapers, bought a OneWay Stronghold chuck and a set of Jumbo Jaws. The new tool rest also allows me to use some of the heavier bowl tool rests from Grizzley and other suppliers. Everything really works nice for me. "10sc" wrote in message news:UoM%d.91722$r55.6232@attbi_s52... I got this one. I did read the book (which amazed my wife) before I started using it. Actually, since the SS is so old, I went through the book for maintenance procedures and what had to be done before using any particular tool. So I did see how to align the lathe. To be honest though. . . If the SS didn't look like it needed a little maint, I likely would not have opened the book so early in my woodturning career. After all - I know what I'm doing :o 10sc "Buddy Matlosz" wrote in message ... Hi Martin, I agree with those who commented that there may be too much axial pressure on the workpiece. Also, there is an adjustment on the SS tailstock intended for off-center turning, and it may be that your headstock and tailstock centers aren't aligned. Remove the workpiece, slide the power unit all the way to the right, and extend the quill so that the two centers are almost touching. Loosen the set screw on the tailstock adjustment dial and rotate the dial until the points are perfectly aligned. If you don't have a SS user's manual, get one, as well as a book they sell called Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone, they're both invaluable references. B. "10sc" wrote in message news:g5r%d.90549$Ze3.87046@attbi_s51... I bought a 40 year old Shop Smith two weeks ago and have been experimenting with the lathe - something I've always wanted. I figure that I must be doing something wrong and I would appreciate a little advice. My wood "bounces" as I shave it. Of course it's worse in the middle of the piece and especially on the longer pieces. I also can't seem to get it centered on the lathe. I have been finding the center by drawing a line across the corners of the piece. X marks the spot so to speak. Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. Any help would be appreciated. -- Martin "10sc" Mears S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A. Harmony in song brings harmony to life. |
Stick with a spur drive -- there is a down side to using a chuck and the
tail stock at the same time. If your machine is not perfectly aligned, you will know it since either the tail center will draw a circle on your blank or will move the blank in the chuck. Zillions of spindles have been turned between centers so it DOES work. Chucks and face plates are for bowls, boxes, hollow forms... Note that if your headstock and tailstock are not perfectly aligned, there may be a little motion at the headstock end when turning on a spur drive but usually it is of little consequence and you probably would not even notice it. It does not introduce error into your work. Bill 10sc wrote: From all the comments, it looks like a chuck is the way to go. But yowza! I looked up the OneWay Stronghold you mentioned here. I realize that you get what you pay for. However, if I pay for that I'll get it (if you catch my drift). Any suggestions for a less expensive chuck or should I stay with the spur drive for the time being? 10sc "Bob Daun" wrote in message ... I have been turning things on my ShopSmith for nearly 20 years (mostly bowls). The reason I am posting here is that I was so gratified to see all you people pitch in with ideas to help solve the problem without one person suggest that he quit trying and get a "real" lathe instead. Obviously I have been pretty satisfied with my unit and upgraded to the Universal Tool Rest that Shopsmith came out with a few years back. It has a nice design, weighs about 35 pounds which the SS can use. I also have upgraded to all High Speed Steel gouges and scrapers, bought a OneWay Stronghold chuck and a set of Jumbo Jaws. The new tool rest also allows me to use some of the heavier bowl tool rests from Grizzley and other suppliers. Everything really works nice for me. "10sc" wrote in message news:UoM%d.91722$r55.6232@attbi_s52... I got this one. I did read the book (which amazed my wife) before I started using it. Actually, since the SS is so old, I went through the book for maintenance procedures and what had to be done before using any particular tool. So I did see how to align the lathe. To be honest though. . . If the SS didn't look like it needed a little maint, I likely would not have opened the book so early in my woodturning career. After all - I know what I'm doing :o 10sc "Buddy Matlosz" wrote in message ... Hi Martin, I agree with those who commented that there may be too much axial pressure on the workpiece. Also, there is an adjustment on the SS tailstock intended for off-center turning, and it may be that your headstock and tailstock centers aren't aligned. Remove the workpiece, slide the power unit all the way to the right, and extend the quill so that the two centers are almost touching. Loosen the set screw on the tailstock adjustment dial and rotate the dial until the points are perfectly aligned. If you don't have a SS user's manual, get one, as well as a book they sell called Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone, they're both invaluable references. B. "10sc" wrote in message news:g5r%d.90549$Ze3.87046@attbi_s51... I bought a 40 year old Shop Smith two weeks ago and have been experimenting with the lathe - something I've always wanted. I figure that I must be doing something wrong and I would appreciate a little advice. My wood "bounces" as I shave it. Of course it's worse in the middle of the piece and especially on the longer pieces. I also can't seem to get it centered on the lathe. I have been finding the center by drawing a line across the corners of the piece. X marks the spot so to speak. Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. Any help would be appreciated. -- Martin "10sc" Mears S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A. Harmony in song brings harmony to life. |
Thanks. A spur drive it is then. I do check my alignment between
mountings - paranoid I guess but better safe than sorry. I do want to try bowls sometime but I figure I should stay with spindles for now. When I've got the bugs worked out then I'll go on to try something else. I do appreciate everyone's assistance. I have been unable to find a group in my town (Decatur, IL). If there's one here, it's a better kept secret than my barbershop group (barbershop singing that is). 10sc "Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message ... Stick with a spur drive -- there is a down side to using a chuck and the tail stock at the same time. If your machine is not perfectly aligned, you will know it since either the tail center will draw a circle on your blank or will move the blank in the chuck. Zillions of spindles have been turned between centers so it DOES work. Chucks and face plates are for bowls, boxes, hollow forms... Note that if your headstock and tailstock are not perfectly aligned, there may be a little motion at the headstock end when turning on a spur drive but usually it is of little consequence and you probably would not even notice it. It does not introduce error into your work. Bill |
There are turners in Springfield including one who regularly comes to
our chapter meetings in St. Louis. Also, when we have a weekend in St. Louis with a big name turner, there are several Springfield area turners who come down. I know one turner in Rantoul which is about 60 miles from you who does shows regularly. They are around. If you want email addresses, contact me off-group. Bill 10sc wrote: Thanks. A spur drive it is then. I do check my alignment between mountings - paranoid I guess but better safe than sorry. I do want to try bowls sometime but I figure I should stay with spindles for now. When I've got the bugs worked out then I'll go on to try something else. I do appreciate everyone's assistance. I have been unable to find a group in my town (Decatur, IL). If there's one here, it's a better kept secret than my barbershop group (barbershop singing that is). 10sc "Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message ... Stick with a spur drive -- there is a down side to using a chuck and the tail stock at the same time. If your machine is not perfectly aligned, you will know it since either the tail center will draw a circle on your blank or will move the blank in the chuck. Zillions of spindles have been turned between centers so it DOES work. Chucks and face plates are for bowls, boxes, hollow forms... Note that if your headstock and tailstock are not perfectly aligned, there may be a little motion at the headstock end when turning on a spur drive but usually it is of little consequence and you probably would not even notice it. It does not introduce error into your work. Bill |
A chuck is nice for some between centers turning but not necessary. I have a
batch of spurtles to send off today that were all turned between centers. I find it faster than using a chuck. For that matter, I find a chuck unnecessary for turning bowls. I have one of those One Way chucks, an excellent product by the way, but use it less than most. -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:14:45 GMT, "10sc" wrote:
I bought the Oneway Talon last year for the Shopsmith and love it.. When I got the Jet Mini for Christmas, I spent $22 on an adapter for the Talon to fit the jet.. The chuck was a bit pricey... only a fraction of what I paid for the SS in the 80's, but almost as much as the $225 the Jet cost... worth the money for sure, though.. Kind of funny, but I bought the chuck from the Shopsmith site... on sale for $192, it was less there that at amazon or Oneway.. I turned wood occasionally for 20+ years on the shopsmith and never thought about a chuck.. since I have one, it's changed my turning habits and (I think) made me a better turner with less time jury-rigging stuff to get the stock secured and turnable.. (about all I use the face plates for now are for home built jigs for finishing bowl bottoms, etc.) From all the comments, it looks like a chuck is the way to go. But yowza! I looked up the OneWay Stronghold you mentioned here. I realize that you get what you pay for. However, if I pay for that I'll get it (if you catch my drift). Any suggestions for a less expensive chuck or should I stay with the spur drive for the time being? 10sc "Bob Daun" wrote in message ... I have been turning things on my ShopSmith for nearly 20 years (mostly bowls). The reason I am posting here is that I was so gratified to see all you people pitch in with ideas to help solve the problem without one person suggest that he quit trying and get a "real" lathe instead. Obviously I have been pretty satisfied with my unit and upgraded to the Universal Tool Rest that Shopsmith came out with a few years back. It has a nice design, weighs about 35 pounds which the SS can use. I also have upgraded to all High Speed Steel gouges and scrapers, bought a OneWay Stronghold chuck and a set of Jumbo Jaws. The new tool rest also allows me to use some of the heavier bowl tool rests from Grizzley and other suppliers. Everything really works nice for me. "10sc" wrote in message news:UoM%d.91722$r55.6232@attbi_s52... I got this one. I did read the book (which amazed my wife) before I started using it. Actually, since the SS is so old, I went through the book for maintenance procedures and what had to be done before using any particular tool. So I did see how to align the lathe. To be honest though. . . If the SS didn't look like it needed a little maint, I likely would not have opened the book so early in my woodturning career. After all - I know what I'm doing :o 10sc "Buddy Matlosz" wrote in message ... Hi Martin, I agree with those who commented that there may be too much axial pressure on the workpiece. Also, there is an adjustment on the SS tailstock intended for off-center turning, and it may be that your headstock and tailstock centers aren't aligned. Remove the workpiece, slide the power unit all the way to the right, and extend the quill so that the two centers are almost touching. Loosen the set screw on the tailstock adjustment dial and rotate the dial until the points are perfectly aligned. If you don't have a SS user's manual, get one, as well as a book they sell called Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone, they're both invaluable references. B. "10sc" wrote in message news:g5r%d.90549$Ze3.87046@attbi_s51... I bought a 40 year old Shop Smith two weeks ago and have been experimenting with the lathe - something I've always wanted. I figure that I must be doing something wrong and I would appreciate a little advice. My wood "bounces" as I shave it. Of course it's worse in the middle of the piece and especially on the longer pieces. I also can't seem to get it centered on the lathe. I have been finding the center by drawing a line across the corners of the piece. X marks the spot so to speak. Even though the point for each lathe end is in the middle of the X, there is still a small but noticeable wobble in my piece. Any help would be appreciated. -- Martin "10sc" Mears S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A. Harmony in song brings harmony to life. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 05:03:23 GMT, "10sc" wrote:
Thanks. A spur drive it is then. I do check my alignment between mountings - paranoid I guess but better safe than sorry. I do want to try bowls sometime but I figure I should stay with spindles for now. When I've got the bugs worked out then I'll go on to try something else. I do appreciate everyone's assistance. I have been unable to find a group in my town (Decatur, IL). If there's one here, it's a better kept secret than my barbershop group (barbershop singing that is). 10sc Get the feel of the lathe and tools with spindles, then try turning a spindle that you like into a candle stick, vase or something like that where you need to do a little end grain work... sort of get the feel of how bowl turning feels and sets up.. I love spindle turning.. I call it my horizonal pottery wheel.. never know what the wood wants to be until you get it turning and make a few cuts.. *g* Bottom line suggestion: Wear eye protection, work safely and HAVE FUN mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
mac davis wrote:
Mac. See below... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 05:03:23 GMT, "10sc" wrote:= =20 =20 Thanks. A spur drive it is then. I do check my alignment between=20 mountings - paranoid I guess but better safe than sorry. I do want to try bowls sometime but I figure I should stay with spindle= s for=20 now. When I've got the bugs worked out then I'll go on to try somethin= g=20 else. I do appreciate everyone's assistance. I have been unable to fi= nd a=20 group in my town (Decatur, IL). If there's one here, it's a better kep= t=20 secret than my barbershop group (barbershop singing that is). 10sc =20 Get the feel of the lathe and tools with spindles, then try turning a s= pindle that you like into a candle stick, vase or something like that where yo= u need to do a little end grain work... sort of get the feel of how bowl turning = feels and sets up..=20 =20 I love spindle turning.. I call it my horizonal pottery wheel.. never k= now what the wood wants to be until you get it turning and make a few cuts.. *g*= =20 Bottom line suggestion: Wear eye protection, work safely and HAVE FUN =20 Second the Eye safety. We got a proper mask. I often forget it is there=20 and reach to scratch an itchy nose and bang my hand into the mask.=20 Haven't splashed coffee on it yet -- but it has been close. LOL. Use a Dust mask for the sanding phase as well. That way you will live to = see your work become heirlooms. And now that we have all nagged you have fun... LOL Thanks for the notes on the oneway/talon style of chuck.... $200 sigh...= =2E =20 mac =20 Please remove splinters before emailing --=20 Will R. Jewel Boxes and Wood Art http://woodwork.pmccl.com The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20 who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw |
Get the feel of the lathe and tools with spindles, then try turning a spindle that you like into a candle stick, vase or something like that where you need to do a little end grain work... sort of get the feel of how bowl turning feels and sets up.. mac Ok. Now that spurs another question (let me know if I'm just bugging you folks). If you're working with a spur drive and tail stock, how would you work the top end of a candle stick or vase? I could see the candlestick as just a hole drilled and sanded after the turning is completed. But what about a vase? 10sc |
Another thought for the candlestick...
Drill the hole for the candle (usually 7/8 I think) first into one end of your blank Make a sort of jam chuck which fits into that hole and mates with your live tail center. Now turn the candle stick and the hole is sure to be centered. Or, with a chuck you could put a scrap piece in the chuck and then shape to so it would jam into the hole in the candle stick blank. Either way would work. Bill 10sc wrote: Get the feel of the lathe and tools with spindles, then try turning a spindle that you like into a candle stick, vase or something like that where you need to do a little end grain work... sort of get the feel of how bowl turning feels and sets up.. mac Ok. Now that spurs another question (let me know if I'm just bugging you folks). If you're working with a spur drive and tail stock, how would you work the top end of a candle stick or vase? I could see the candlestick as just a hole drilled and sanded after the turning is completed. But what about a vase? 10sc |
"10sc" wrote: Ok. Now that *spurs* another question (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Was that intentional? |
"10sc" wrote in message news:egL0e.103690$Ze3.1775@attbi_s51... Ok. Now that spurs another question (let me know if I'm just bugging you folks). If you're working with a spur drive and tail stock, how would you work the top end of a candle stick or vase? I could see the candlestick as just a hole drilled and sanded after the turning is completed. But what about a vase? Same thing. There are faceplate workarounds as well. Candlesticks take a tapered bore, dry vases (weed pots) can be any size, and inserts can be matched to the proper bit for live flowers. Tip on that nub that's always left after parting off - curve-bladed knife - gets right to the base, and draws as it cuts. You undercut the base a bit anyway to keep it sitting firm. |
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message ... "10sc" wrote: Ok. Now that *spurs* another question (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Was that intentional? Yup. My minor attempt at humor. |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:06:27 -0500, WillR wrote:
snip Second the Eye safety. We got a proper mask. I often forget it is there and reach to scratch an itchy nose and bang my hand into the mask. Haven't splashed coffee on it yet -- but it has been close. LOL. Use a Dust mask for the sanding phase as well. That way you will live to see your work become heirlooms. And now that we have all nagged you have fun... LOL Thanks for the notes on the oneway/talon style of chuck.... $200 sigh.... it's not fun flipping the shield down with a cigarette in your mouth either... at least that's what I've heard, ya understand.. *g* I wish I would have bought that $200 chuck years ago.. what a great investment! I get lazy now, especially since my wife keeps bringing loads of wood to turn.. I cut a blank, use the Shopsmith with a 2 1/8" forstner to make the recess for the chuck, and start turning... mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:12:38 GMT, Bill Rubenstein wrote:
Another thought for the candlestick... Drill the hole for the candle (usually 7/8 I think) first into one end of your blank Make a sort of jam chuck which fits into that hole and mates with your live tail center. Now turn the candle stick and the hole is sure to be centered. Or, with a chuck you could put a scrap piece in the chuck and then shape to so it would jam into the hole in the candle stick blank. Either way would work. Bill Bill.. before I got the chuck, I developed a system that worked pretty good, thanks to a lot of help he For that candle stick, take a chunk of 1" dowel... drill a hole in one end for a screw chuck and taper the other end a bit to let it "jam" into the 7/8" hole in the stock.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:42:58 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote: "10sc" wrote: Ok. Now that *spurs* another question (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Was that intentional? Leo.. I was trying SO hard to ignore that pun, but thanks for bringing it up.. lmao mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
"mac davis" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:12:38 GMT, Bill Rubenstein wrote: Another thought for the candlestick... Drill the hole for the candle (usually 7/8 I think) first into one end of your blank Make a sort of jam chuck which fits into that hole and mates with your live tail center. Now turn the candle stick and the hole is sure to be centered. Or, with a chuck you could put a scrap piece in the chuck and then shape to so it would jam into the hole in the candle stick blank. Either way would work. Bill Bill.. before I got the chuck, I developed a system that worked pretty good, thanks to a lot of help he For that candle stick, take a chunk of 1" dowel... drill a hole in one end for a screw chuck and taper the other end a bit to let it "jam" into the 7/8" hole in the stock.. First, I think it's worth mentioning that the "standard" candle is 7/8 taper to 3/4 at ~1" depth. Therefore, working up a spade bit to use as a low-speed reamer will do as well as the bits sold especially for the purpose. Just remember how grabby they can be. For a faceplate workaround, turn a tapered portion on your faceplated waste block to use as a mandrel. Order of business is rough stock, parted at either end to have top and bottom parallel, leaving center mark at what will become the base. Take the piece to the drillpress, clamp in position to bore the recess, then back to the lathe, using the mandrel and old base center mark to keep things as true as possible. Works pretty well, but can be a bit fussy if you don't cut the mandrel properly. |
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Vega lathes manufactured
in Decatur? Seems that the company would sponsor a wood club in their own town. -Kevin "10sc" wrote in message news:vSr0e.5938$pa.3765@attbi_s02... Thanks. A spur drive it is then. I do check my alignment between mountings - paranoid I guess but better safe than sorry. I do want to try bowls sometime but I figure I should stay with spindles for now. When I've got the bugs worked out then I'll go on to try something else. I do appreciate everyone's assistance. I have been unable to find a group in my town (Decatur, IL). If there's one here, it's a better kept secret than my barbershop group (barbershop singing that is). 10sc "Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message ... Stick with a spur drive -- there is a down side to using a chuck and the tail stock at the same time. If your machine is not perfectly aligned, you will know it since either the tail center will draw a circle on your blank or will move the blank in the chuck. Zillions of spindles have been turned between centers so it DOES work. Chucks and face plates are for bowls, boxes, hollow forms... Note that if your headstock and tailstock are not perfectly aligned, there may be a little motion at the headstock end when turning on a spur drive but usually it is of little consequence and you probably would not even notice it. It does not introduce error into your work. Bill |
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