I was doing some sanding and a couple of imperfection on a flat piece
of wood needed more than sanding paper. I grabbed an old metal file
(fine, but kinda dull) and went at it. A few strokes later the blemish
was gone but waddaya know, the wood looked & felt mirror smooth and
shone like crazy, way way way nicer than I would have been able to get
with 600 grit. What happened here and could I use that same file to
get that kinda finish when "sanding" wood on the lathe? (The lathe is
tied up right now as I'm using it as big sanding disk).
Bart.
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

Bart, maybe you burnished the wood with the file and could have used a
flat piece of hardwood or shavings. If so, the fibers were laid out nice
& flat, but on finishing will likely rise again to fight another day.
Please correct me if the piece finished as nicely as after 'filing'.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Burnished.

You can do the same with a handful of shavings, extremely fine sandpaper,
or a toolrest that wasn't properly tightened and twisted into the rotating
bowl.

"Bart V" wrote in message
...
I was doing some sanding and a couple of imperfection on a flat piece
of wood needed more than sanding paper. I grabbed an old metal file
(fine, but kinda dull) and went at it. A few strokes later the blemish
was gone but waddaya know, the wood looked & felt mirror smooth and
shone like crazy, way way way nicer than I would have been able to get
with 600 grit. What happened here and could I use that same file to
get that kinda finish when "sanding" wood on the lathe? (The lathe is
tied up right now as I'm using it as big sanding disk).
Bart.

Maybe your file is sharper than you think. I've used one to smooth
certain things before. I don't think it is the same as burnishing.

Pretty close, when you're talking a mill file. As you know, wood is
normally cut with rasps - toothed files - to avoid packing the fiber into
fine mill marks. Such a file would really be the equivalent of the side of
a board, once loaded.

"Tim Miller" wrote in message
oups.com...
Maybe your file is sharper than you think. I've used one to smooth
certain things before. I don't think it is the same as burnishing.

As you don't know files are like a bunch of chisels lined up. And if
they take wood away they aren't burnishing and they aren't like the
side of a board. I used files to take knots off natural wood canes and
they leave the best. I've done and seen it work have you?

OK, have it your way. But a mill file is a shallow bite, and fills up
quickly. How about a look with a magnifier next time you're working to see
how quickly they clean.

"Tim Miller" wrote in message
oups.com...
As you don't know files are like a bunch of chisels lined up. And if
they take wood away they aren't burnishing and they aren't like the
side of a board. I used files to take knots off natural wood canes and
they leave the best. I've done and seen it work have you?

Thanks for the great replies. I'm building a banjo and I'd sanded the
barewood neck working my way up to 600. After reading the replies I
tried rubbing the neck with a small piece of wood to see what would
happen. Holy cow, the whole thing started gleaming like it'd been
sprayed with laquer, just totally beautiful! I'm hoping this
smoothness will remain once I put the oil finish on it.
Thanks again,
Bart.
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

I didn't want to argue but if they fill up quickly that means there is
wood in there and that means they are cutting not burnishing. They do
leave a nice glass like finish. I came across it by accident one day
after using a file to sharpen some things. I had some small branches
that I had cut off on some canes and was out of sand paper so I just
thought I'd try a file and see how it would work. Took em down pretty
good and didn't need any sandpaper. Couldn't get a better finish any
easier than this.

Tim, once they fill, they no longer cut. They cut when they're clean, just
like sandpaper. The metal worker keeps tapping to release, or uses a file
card (wire brush) to get the material out. I'm sure you've noticed that
loaded sandpaper heats and brightens the surface, leaving a background of
scratches, at one time or another. I even clean sandpaper with a file card
when sanding wet wood.

As the OP was thinking of trying it on a rotating piece, he had virtually no
chance of cleaning it. Ditto if the wood is damp.

A mill file is probably closer to 320 than 220 in "grit," and is meant for
non-fibrous material like steel. Fibrous material like wood responds best
to a self-cleaning rasp. If you keep it clean with a brush, you've got
sandpaper on a stick, if you don't keep it clean, you've soon got the stick.


"Tim Miller" wrote in message
oups.com...
I didn't want to argue but if they fill up quickly that means there is
wood in there and that means they are cutting not burnishing. They do
leave a nice glass like finish. I came across it by accident one day
after using a file to sharpen some things. I had some small branches
that I had cut off on some canes and was out of sand paper so I just
thought I'd try a file and see how it would work. Took em down pretty
good and didn't need any sandpaper. Couldn't get a better finish any
easier than this.

Of course, both Tim & George are correct, but for the bewildered like
me:

It's known that two hundred and eighty seven angels can dance an old
mill file: two hundred eighty eight on a rasp. Both might cuturnish wood
to a better finish than the traditional sandscrape method. Then there
are those flat boards and cabinet scrapers, not to mention bundles of
reed. Where will it all end? HTH!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Hi George
I guess you'll just have to try it. I have never had a file fill up so
it wouldn't cut. That's with dry wood. If a mill file is so close to
320 or 220 why does it give a glasslike finish. It's more like cutting
with a chisel than sanding. If there is wood dust on the bench it is
still cutting. Just because a mill file is for metal doesn't mean it
won't cut wood.

Arch wrote:

Of course, both Tim & George are correct, but for the bewildered like
me: /snip/
Off course G
But think of the implication Arch, no more expensive sand/grit sheets,
al we have to do now is to find some round files to do the bowls on the
inside, you have some??
Have fun and giggles and take care
Leo Van Der Loo
-_
-

Believe me, in over forty years of school and home woodworking, I've grabbed
a mill file more than once, even for wood. I've also demonstrated the
difference in wood-removing ability between a rasp and a file ("lemme get
this ******* over here") many times.

You mentioned "knots," which to me means you're cutting end grain. That's
smaller particle size, almost like metal, which is what the file's for, and
should clear approximately as metal. As it comes to longer aspect on the
grain it either slides and scores or fills. It then becomes a much finer
grit - less exposed tooth above packed groove equal to smaller particle size
glued to paper. Makes finer scratches if at all. Same thing with the old
garnet paper, which was variable grade. You cracked the big pieces, and the
remaining smaller came into play, or the much-admired Tormek, where dulling
the edges of the big grains with a rock makes them cut effectively finer,
because there is less surface difference in particle height. This is good
on a Tormek, and bad on any other grinder, where you must continuously
freshen the surface to the detriment of its diameter.

The thread police are on us, so before I anger them once again....

"Tim Miller" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi George
I guess you'll just have to try it. I have never had a file fill up so
it wouldn't cut. That's with dry wood. If a mill file is so close to
320 or 220 why does it give a glasslike finish. It's more like cutting
with a chisel than sanding. If there is wood dust on the bench it is
still cutting. Just because a mill file is for metal doesn't mean it
won't cut wood.

Hi George, A silly attempt to lighten up, not meant to be an angry
policeman, tho it does come across that way. Sorry. Please continue the
dialog. FWIW, I thoroughly enjoy your cogent comments. They keep this ng
running.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I never said to throw away your sandpaper, I just said it wasn't
burnishing it was cutting. I stand by that. End grain or with the grain
it doesn't make much difference. I agree that files and sandpaper can
get filled with the material sanded or filed but not in this case. If
the blemish was gone like he(Bart V) said were did it go? Can you
burnish blemishes away? I've never done that have any of you? Somebody
out grab a mill file and try to fill it up with wood so it won't cut
anymore. I tried to fill one up but my arms got tired.