Prometheus, I guided you over here for a conversation because someone took
umbrage with me for making a comment without a picture on the woodworking
picture newsgroup.



You said:



"Now I *know* that turning is as bad as a crack habit! Since when does A2
cut "fairly easily" with a bandsaw? Even using a CNC bandsaw with a
..60"x1.25"x16' Lenox 4/5 LXP Trimaster blade, A2 still has the
tendency to cut teeth off the saw when it gets to the burr at the end of the
part! Not to mention the horrendously slow going it takes to cut the
stuff... Anyhow, good for you! It's always cool when someone makes their
own tools."


You probably know a world full more stuff dealing with steel than me. But we
used a metal cutting bandsaw and cut the 12" piece of steel lengthwise twice
plus two small cuts on the end of the 1 1/4" wide piece to go into a handle,
taking about 20 minutes. There were no broken teeth. Just a bimetal blade.
Maybe we were lucky. While at Pacific Machinery and Tool Steel, I watched a
guy cutting a 24 inch cylinder with a bandsaw. One of theirs had broken and
I took it home to have for making knife blades with (carving).

Thanks for adding the two places you mentioned for the A2 steel. I know it
can be had from several Internet sources but I don't know if you can walk in
and rummage thru their scrap pile.
--

Bob Darrah
West Linn, Oregon

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:34:21 -0700, "Bob Darrah"
wrote:

Prometheus, I guided you over here for a conversation because someone took
umbrage with me for making a comment without a picture on the woodworking
picture newsgroup.

Bah, they're a grumpy lot sometimes!



You said:



"Now I *know* that turning is as bad as a crack habit! Since when does A2
cut "fairly easily" with a bandsaw? Even using a CNC bandsaw with a
.60"x1.25"x16' Lenox 4/5 LXP Trimaster blade, A2 still has the
tendency to cut teeth off the saw when it gets to the burr at the end of the
part! Not to mention the horrendously slow going it takes to cut the
stuff... Anyhow, good for you! It's always cool when someone makes their
own tools."


You probably know a world full more stuff dealing with steel than me. But we
used a metal cutting bandsaw and cut the 12" piece of steel lengthwise twice
plus two small cuts on the end of the 1 1/4" wide piece to go into a handle,
taking about 20 minutes. There were no broken teeth. Just a bimetal blade.
Maybe we were lucky.

I'm guessing you cut it freehand on a vertical bandsaw? That might
make a difference, since it's your hand strength guiding the metal
into the blade instead of the saw pushing the blade against metal in a
vise. Every saw acts differently, so it could be any number of
factors that made it easier to cut- but if it works for you, great!

Also, after posting that comment, it occured to me that you probably
were using a much finer blade than 4/5 if you were using a small saw-
it might be the reason why you didn't have any teeth shearing off at
the end of the cut. I'm a [metal] sawier by trade, and I'm usually
under some pressure to get things cut quickly, so I generally use
blades with much larger teeth than you'd put in a small hydrolic saw
(4/5, 2/3, 3/4, 5/8, etc. refers to the number of teeth per inch-
there are two numbers because the tooth count alternates on even and
odd inches). This makes for a faster cut, but it also allows a burr
to grab those teeth quite a bit more easily, sometimes causing 6-8 of
the teeth to shear right off. It really makes for a nasty grinding
sound every time the flat spot hits the material when that happens,
though the blade will usually still run for while after it happens. I
just know that I cringe a little every time I have to cut a big job
with of any steel that starts with an "A" prefix. As an FYI, A-2 is
really nice for chisels and such- it is the standard "tool steel" that
most tool makers refer to, and A-10 is the industry designation for
High Speed Steel, which I've often heard is a superior grade for edged
tools. (I mainly just have high-carbon steels for my own stuff, since
I don't really mind sharpening) A-2 is an air-hardening steel, so you
want to keep it well flooded with coolant, but oil and water-hardening
steels (A-6 and A-4 I believe; but I rarely encounter those.)
*supposedly* cut better without coolant. (The jury's still out on
that one, IMO)

While at Pacific Machinery and Tool Steel, I watched a
guy cutting a 24 inch cylinder with a bandsaw. One of theirs had broken and
I took it home to have for making knife blades with (carving).

The bandsaw blade? Let me know how that works out- I can have as many
of the broken suckers as I could ever need, they just go in the scrap
bin otherwise. I'm not sure that the band portion of the blade would
be worth much, but if you can find a way to flatten the teeth and
sharpen that bit, it might work really nicely. Are you planning on
using it like a drawknife, or more like a chisel or pocketknife?

Thanks for adding the two places you mentioned for the A2 steel. I know it
can be had from several Internet sources but I don't know if you can walk in
and rummage thru their scrap pile.

The only downside to Cinncinati Tool steel is that you need to buy a
full bar-length to make it worthwhile, but J&L sells it in 1', 2' and
3' lengths if I remember correctly.

Another thing to consider is taking a machinist's course at your local
Tech. College- They often have materials donated to them for the
students, and you may be able to make a whole selection of nice tools
with free (aside from the cost of the class, that is) materials on
machinist-grade tools. Not to mention the benefit of having an
(hopefully) experienced instructor to help you out.

Just for your amusement, here are the saws I stare at every day:

http://www.machinetools.com/mt/machi...49444027933806

(I have a matching pair at work, with 24' rollers behind them.)

See, I figured you knew what you were talking about. It is a saw just as you
said. I don't know about the blade my buddy used. And yes it was him pushing
it in to the blade by hand.

That is a big saw. My brother in law had a machine shop in Eugene, Oregon
until the recession of '74 hit. When GE and Weyerhaeuser quit sending him
checks to pay for his work he had to close shop. He went to work for GE in
Utah and eventually for Geneva Steel. He had a massive stroke that should
have killed him. He does wood working but can't figure any numbers.
Still he does quite well. His shop was where I started learning about metal.
I didn't pay much attention though.

My buddy did exactly as you said about the community. He took a course in
metal shop and one in welding. he is a certified welder. He made several
tools that he would need to make a lumber size band mill.

As far as the blade making goes, these blades are perfect for small wood
carving knives. We cut, shape and anneal, then sharpen the blades to a
hardness of 62-64 Rockwell. They are perfect for carving and detail work.
This sure makes it cheap.

Bob


"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:34:21 -0700, "Bob Darrah"
wrote:

Prometheus, I guided you over here for a conversation because someone took
umbrage with me for making a comment without a picture on the woodworking
picture newsgroup.

Bah, they're a grumpy lot sometimes!



You said:



"Now I *know* that turning is as bad as a crack habit! Since when does A2
cut "fairly easily" with a bandsaw? Even using a CNC bandsaw with a
.60"x1.25"x16' Lenox 4/5 LXP Trimaster blade, A2 still has the
tendency to cut teeth off the saw when it gets to the burr at the end of
the
part! Not to mention the horrendously slow going it takes to cut the
stuff... Anyhow, good for you! It's always cool when someone makes their
own tools."


You probably know a world full more stuff dealing with steel than me. But
we
used a metal cutting bandsaw and cut the 12" piece of steel lengthwise
twice
plus two small cuts on the end of the 1 1/4" wide piece to go into a
handle,
taking about 20 minutes. There were no broken teeth. Just a bimetal blade.
Maybe we were lucky.

I'm guessing you cut it freehand on a vertical bandsaw? That might
make a difference, since it's your hand strength guiding the metal
into the blade instead of the saw pushing the blade against metal in a
vise. Every saw acts differently, so it could be any number of
factors that made it easier to cut- but if it works for you, great!

Also, after posting that comment, it occured to me that you probably
were using a much finer blade than 4/5 if you were using a small saw-
it might be the reason why you didn't have any teeth shearing off at
the end of the cut. I'm a [metal] sawier by trade, and I'm usually
under some pressure to get things cut quickly, so I generally use
blades with much larger teeth than you'd put in a small hydrolic saw
(4/5, 2/3, 3/4, 5/8, etc. refers to the number of teeth per inch-
there are two numbers because the tooth count alternates on even and
odd inches). This makes for a faster cut, but it also allows a burr
to grab those teeth quite a bit more easily, sometimes causing 6-8 of
the teeth to shear right off. It really makes for a nasty grinding
sound every time the flat spot hits the material when that happens,
though the blade will usually still run for while after it happens. I
just know that I cringe a little every time I have to cut a big job
with of any steel that starts with an "A" prefix. As an FYI, A-2 is
really nice for chisels and such- it is the standard "tool steel" that
most tool makers refer to, and A-10 is the industry designation for
High Speed Steel, which I've often heard is a superior grade for edged
tools. (I mainly just have high-carbon steels for my own stuff, since
I don't really mind sharpening) A-2 is an air-hardening steel, so you
want to keep it well flooded with coolant, but oil and water-hardening
steels (A-6 and A-4 I believe; but I rarely encounter those.)
*supposedly* cut better without coolant. (The jury's still out on
that one, IMO)

While at Pacific Machinery and Tool Steel, I watched a
guy cutting a 24 inch cylinder with a bandsaw. One of theirs had broken
and
I took it home to have for making knife blades with (carving).

The bandsaw blade? Let me know how that works out- I can have as many
of the broken suckers as I could ever need, they just go in the scrap
bin otherwise. I'm not sure that the band portion of the blade would
be worth much, but if you can find a way to flatten the teeth and
sharpen that bit, it might work really nicely. Are you planning on
using it like a drawknife, or more like a chisel or pocketknife?

Thanks for adding the two places you mentioned for the A2 steel. I know it
can be had from several Internet sources but I don't know if you can walk
in
and rummage thru their scrap pile.

The only downside to Cinncinati Tool steel is that you need to buy a
full bar-length to make it worthwhile, but J&L sells it in 1', 2' and
3' lengths if I remember correctly.

Another thing to consider is taking a machinist's course at your local
Tech. College- They often have materials donated to them for the
students, and you may be able to make a whole selection of nice tools
with free (aside from the cost of the class, that is) materials on
machinist-grade tools. Not to mention the benefit of having an
(hopefully) experienced instructor to help you out.

Just for your amusement, here are the saws I stare at every day:

http://www.machinetools.com/mt/machi...49444027933806

(I have a matching pair at work, with 24' rollers behind them.)