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The $29.95 angle drill continued
If you have followed for a while, I got a cheap Sioux/Milwaukee angle
drill clone last fall. I did an abuse test on it to see how good or bad it really was. It wore out in less than 2 months, and I did abuse it. The failure was due to the casing around the drill shaft wearing out, not the bearings as I thought. If there was metal or other support around the shaft, it would have lasted longer. I had a few friends who got them also, and although I haven't heard of any wearing out, there were some problems with the trigger failing. They were under warrenty, were returned, and replaced. The next part of the story is that I next set out to wear out a Milwaukee drill. It was brand new, and I put it to work as soon as the cheap one died. The Milwaukee died on Friday. Bearings I think. This is about a 6 month life span in my shop, which for most other people will mean a year or five. I run 3 inch discs on it, I blow it out regularly, I put in some 8 hour sanding days ( yes, I do put some things off too long and then need to work overtime to catch up). Oh yes, it is the slow speed model. $150 for 6 months vs $30 times 4 (I am figuring 1 1/2 months life) is $120 for the same time span. The cheap one may be the better deal. robo hippy |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
In article .com,
"robo hippy" wrote: $150 for 6 months vs $30 times 4 (I am figuring 1 1/2 months life) is $120 for the same time span. The cheap one may be the better deal. In my opinion, that's not really an accurate comparison. The cheapie must be *replaced* due to housing failure - an item likely not easily/inexpensively procured. The Milwaukee/Sioux can be *repaired*. The upper and lower bearings can both be replaced for, what, $12-$15 total? (not going to take mine apart to find out what specific bearings are required - but the general range for "premium" double-sealed electric motor bearings would likely be less than $5 each and certainly not a difficult job to do for an owner/user) So, taking the tool life spans at your values, your comparison should really be: at 6 months - $150 (M/S) vs. $120; at 12 months - $165 (M/S) vs. $240; at 24 months $190 (M/S) vs. $480. This doesn't take into consideration the environmental waste and impact of manufacturing, shipping, and packaging, plus material waste, involved in purchasing 8 new cheapie units per year. Mr. Hippy, if you have the habit of throwing away all your tools, appliances and cars when repairs are needed, I'll be headed down I-5 to haul this "trash" away for you. ;) -- Owen Lowe Northwest Woodturners Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild ___ Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness. |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
"robo hippy" wrote:
$150 for 6 months vs $30 times 4 (I am figuring 1 1/2 months life) is $120 for the same time span. The cheap one may be the better deal. Owen Lowe wrote: The cheapie must be *replaced* due to housing failure - an item likely not easily/inexpensively procured. Being a cheap bahstid, I wonder if a glob of epoxy might do it, but I'm having a bit of trouble envisioning the failure mode from the description. Owen Lowe wrote: The Milwaukee/Sioux can be *repaired*. The upper and lower bearings can both be replaced for, what, $12-$15 total? (not going to take mine apart to find out what specific bearings are required - but the general range for "premium" double-sealed electric motor bearings would likely be less than $5 each and certainly not a difficult job to do for an owner/user) You'd have to check to be sure. A different model of Milwaulkee I have needed a 25 cent (my estimate) brush holder and spring, but that was only available as part of a $22.50 kit with a bunch of other parts I did not need (this being for a drill I got on sale for $100). Bearings at least might be more generic with a good bearing supply house. An observation - the Hip Robot might well have entered the level of use and abuse (8 hour sanding days) where certain inherent advantages of air tools come to the fore (though one does have to bite the price of a big enough compressor if you don't start with that in hand). They run cool and they keep the dust blown out of themselves. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
On 7 May 2006 22:59:24 -0700, "robo hippy" wrote:
If you have followed for a while, I got a cheap Sioux/Milwaukee angle drill clone last fall. I did an abuse test on it to see how good or bad it really was. It wore out in less than 2 months, and I did abuse it. The failure was due to the casing around the drill shaft wearing out, not the bearings as I thought. If there was metal or other support around the shaft, it would have lasted longer. I had a few friends who got them also, and although I haven't heard of any wearing out, there were some problems with the trigger failing. They were under warrenty, were returned, and replaced. The next part of the story is that I next set out to wear out a Milwaukee drill. It was brand new, and I put it to work as soon as the cheap one died. The Milwaukee died on Friday. Bearings I think. This is about a 6 month life span in my shop, which for most other people will mean a year or five. I run 3 inch discs on it, I blow it out regularly, I put in some 8 hour sanding days ( yes, I do put some things off too long and then need to work overtime to catch up). Oh yes, it is the slow speed model. $150 for 6 months vs $30 times 4 (I am figuring 1 1/2 months life) is $120 for the same time span. The cheap one may be the better deal. robo hippy Reed... seems like I got my Ebay special about the same time as you got your drill... I use it a lot, probably not as much as you do yours as I have 3 drills and use the one that's closest, but I've put a LOT of hours on the poor clone.. I don't blow it out, brush it off or do any maintenance on it... I abuse the hell out of it with too much pressure, long sanding sessions on hot days, etc... I've worn out or over heated several H&L sanding pads but the drill seems to be like new... That said, I have to wonder about quality control, especially on the cheaper tools... I could have got the only good drill in a box of many... Mac https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
"robo hippy" wrote in message oups.com... $150 for 6 months vs $30 times 4 (I am figuring 1 1/2 months life) is $120 for the same time span. The cheap one may be the better deal. I use the flexible shaft, which goes for 50 or 60, depending on source, and use it for a couple/three years. Not to mention the advantage gained by having a sander I can support on the rest rather than the work when sanding on the lathe. Couple hundred pieces a year average usage. Then there's the benefit gained in having a great lap sander as well. Put the piece between my knees, grip one edge, sand with a full handshake grip on the handle. Tough to beat it for a lot of work, especially the bowls of the spoons I carve.. Oh yes, I never blow it out, the motor residing some three or so feet away from the sanding dust production. Easy to pick up ninety plus percent at the source. |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
Oh yes, the 'rest' of the story.
I gave the cheap drill to a friend in our club who is one of those 'oh boy, this gives me something to do during my lunch break' types. Me, I love to use my tools, but don't like to work on them. Kind of like cars, that is a mechanics job. My friend is going to try some epoxy in the shaft (where the chuck attaches to the drill, there was a lot of wobble in the pad (1/4 inch) as it spun) and see if that works. I will take my M/S drill, and have it repaired which is usually about $75. I probably could repair it myself, but they can do it a lot faster, and easier than I can. Right now, I am starting in on a pneumatic Sioux angle drill that I have had, but not used much, and see what I can do to it. robo hippy |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
robo hippy wrote:
$150 for 6 months vs $30 times 4 (I am figuring 1 1/2 months life) is $120 for the same time span. The cheap one may be the better deal. robo hippy If I were to use them as a drill, for the sake of accuracy and dependability, I would go with the Milwaukee. But.. that is using it as a drill, not a sander. But if you are only using the machine to spin a piece of sandpaper I think you are missing the boat. Next time Harbor Freight has their model on sale, go buy it for $29 bucks. Then add the 1 year replacement warranty for $5 that may start after the original 90 warranty (I think it is literally $5 for anything under $50). It would give you a minimum of 12 months replacement in the store. This would preclude replacing anything inside the drill or taking anything apart to find out what broke. It would save you a few hours anyway by the time you dismantle the drill, locate the parts, drive to get them, and reassemble. And it would compare favorably with your economic model. Milwaukee - $150 X 2 (one year) = $300 annually Current brand X Chiawanese - $120 X 2 (one year) = $240 annually HF Chiawanese with warranty - $35 for one year = well, $35 for one year Robert |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
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The $29.95 angle drill continued
In article .com,
"robo hippy" wrote: I will take my M/S drill, and have it repaired which is usually about $75. I probably could repair it myself, but they can do it a lot faster, and easier than I can. I think you're selling yourself short as well as paying at least $50 too much over buying the bearings and replacing them yourself. I can certainly understand your reluctance to regularly plop down $75 twice a year to repair a tool - but it's something that's easy to do and only costs the price of the bearings. -- Owen Lowe Northwest Woodturners Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild ___ Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness. |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
Owen Lowe wrote:
wrote: Milwaukee - $150 X 2 (one year) = $300 annually I'll gladly pay the postage for you guys replacing your Milwaukee/Sioux's to ship them to me. I think you mistunderstood my post. I was following his economic model for thriftiness. I am happily hanging on to my Sioux/Milwaukee. However, I use my Sioux/Milwaukee for drilling and light sanding, not dedicated to sanding. The intent of my illustration was to expand on this and earlier reports and experiences that pertained to the $29.95 drills. I personally would not use a drill of the caliber of Miwalukee as a dedicated sander as that is not its strong suit. If all you are wanting to do, knowing that you will wear out the tool no matter what, is find a solution to spinning sandpaper around (no accuracy needed) why not go the least expensive route? If a set of bearings is almost $30 for the S/M on one hand, and on the other you have a machine under warranty that allows you to replace the whole thing with no repairs or money at all on your part, why not? I am not understanding your reluctance to this since the original investment in the tool you know you will break regardless of the brand, is about the cost of bearings for the S/M drill and you don't have to go get them and install them. I think the key for me is that he KNOWS he will break either machine. For me, I have my S/M drill that I use when needed on cabinet installations. But for sanding, I love my $29.95 special that I got for $24.95 on sale. It spins paper just fine. And if it craps out, I wlll buy another if it gets out of warranty. i have never drilled a hole with it though... Robert |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
I bought a 3/8" CTC drill for $35 complete with a 3 year warrantee. I think
I have a drill (sander) for life! wrote in message oups.com... robo hippy wrote: $150 for 6 months vs $30 times 4 (I am figuring 1 1/2 months life) is $120 for the same time span. The cheap one may be the better deal. robo hippy If I were to use them as a drill, for the sake of accuracy and dependability, I would go with the Milwaukee. But.. that is using it as a drill, not a sander. But if you are only using the machine to spin a piece of sandpaper I think you are missing the boat. Next time Harbor Freight has their model on sale, go buy it for $29 bucks. Then add the 1 year replacement warranty for $5 that may start after the original 90 warranty (I think it is literally $5 for anything under $50). It would give you a minimum of 12 months replacement in the store. This would preclude replacing anything inside the drill or taking anything apart to find out what broke. It would save you a few hours anyway by the time you dismantle the drill, locate the parts, drive to get them, and reassemble. And it would compare favorably with your economic model. Milwaukee - $150 X 2 (one year) = $300 annually Current brand X Chiawanese - $120 X 2 (one year) = $240 annually HF Chiawanese with warranty - $35 for one year = well, $35 for one year Robert |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
I guess that my real point if that most people only think of buying one
drill, and probably won't wear it out like I do. Which one is the better value for the origional investment? I probably should get another cheap one, and see how long it lasts. I think that I will wear out the pneumatic one first. robo hippy |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
On Mon, 8 May 2006 11:16:55 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:
"robo hippy" wrote in message roups.com... $150 for 6 months vs $30 times 4 (I am figuring 1 1/2 months life) is $120 for the same time span. The cheap one may be the better deal. I use the flexible shaft, which goes for 50 or 60, depending on source, and use it for a couple/three years. Not to mention the advantage gained by having a sander I can support on the rest rather than the work when sanding on the lathe. Couple hundred pieces a year average usage. Then there's the benefit gained in having a great lap sander as well. Put the piece between my knees, grip one edge, sand with a full handshake grip on the handle. Tough to beat it for a lot of work, especially the bowls of the spoons I carve.. You wear kevlar boxers when you lap sand? *g* Mac https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
On 8 May 2006 08:32:05 -0700, "robo hippy" wrote:
Oh yes, the 'rest' of the story. I gave the cheap drill to a friend in our club who is one of those 'oh boy, this gives me something to do during my lunch break' types. Me, I love to use my tools, but don't like to work on them. Kind of like cars, that is a mechanics job. My friend is going to try some epoxy in the shaft (where the chuck attaches to the drill, there was a lot of wobble in the pad (1/4 inch) as it spun) and see if that works. I will take my M/S drill, and have it repaired which is usually about $75. I probably could repair it myself, but they can do it a lot faster, and easier than I can. Right now, I am starting in on a pneumatic Sioux angle drill that I have had, but not used much, and see what I can do to it. robo hippy IMHO, being really cheap and lazy, I'd buy 3 more cheap drills before spending $75 to fix a good one... Let's see... a holder over the chisel rack with 3 cheap drills holding maybe 80, 180 & 220 grit.... Mac https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
Hi Reed
It's not only the Sioux/Milwaukee angle drills that have the problem of the bearing problem, I have had this happen with a B&D drill that I used for sanding, this problem occurs just because we use these drills for sanding, and when those shielded only bearings do get grit inside of them the outside race gets yanked around and the plastic housing just does not stand up to that. (some of those bearings are shielded on one side only) So I wonder how long a brand new Milwaukee would last if they had the shielded bearings replaced for sealed bearings (or do it themselves) before using it, I would expect that the initial investment would pay off well, and the drills last for several years. I use just normal cheap drills and my Milwaukee only when I am unable to do the sanding with my other drills. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
One thing that I am noticing about the pneumatic Sioux, is that it
keeps my compressor running continuously (5 hp, 60 gal. Cambel Hausfeld). I know that the compressor used a lot more ecectricity than the M/S drills do. That may end up being a considerable cost that I did not consider. On the other hand, it works very well, and the cool breeze is a relief, as I am one of those people who is always warm. I wish it had a better air flow mechanism than the toggle switch it has. You can't fine tune it, and wide open is 2200 rpm. The trigger switch is very touchy, and it is difficult to get fine control. So far, 50 bowls from 16 inch diameter to 7 inch, and about 16 hours. Another 6 or so hours tomorrow, then off to a show. robo hippy to be continued |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
On 9 May 2006 23:29:11 -0700, "robo hippy" wrote:
One thing that I am noticing about the pneumatic Sioux, is that it keeps my compressor running continuously (5 hp, 60 gal. Cambel Hausfeld). I know that the compressor used a lot more ecectricity than the M/S drills do. That may end up being a considerable cost that I did not consider. On the other hand, it works very well, and the cool breeze is a relief, as I am one of those people who is always warm. I wish it had a better air flow mechanism than the toggle switch it has. You can't fine tune it, and wide open is 2200 rpm. The trigger switch is very touchy, and it is difficult to get fine control. So far, 50 bowls from 16 inch diameter to 7 inch, and about 16 hours. Another 6 or so hours tomorrow, then off to a show. robo hippy to be continued To which Mac added, see ya there Saturday, Reed... Mac https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
On 7 May 2006 22:59:24 -0700, "robo hippy"
wrote: $150 for 6 months vs $30 times 4 (I am figuring 1 1/2 months life) is $120 for the same time span. The cheap one may be the better deal. Man, you killed a Milwalkee in 6 mos.? They're good tools... Maybe you're using the wrong tool for the job, have you considered using a heavy-duty angle grinder instead? |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
He might be using sandpaper that has the grit come off and get into the drills bearings. And to think that a pair of double sealed bearings on sale at Enco cost only $4.78 right now and normally only about $3.50 each. They would keep all the crap out and the drills last a lot longer. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
I buy my sanding paper from Klingspoor, in 12 inch wide strips, and
then cut my own discs (slightly larger than the ones you order). If there is sand getting in, then it is minimal. I have had maybe 10 rebuilds on three of the four electric drills that I own, the Milwaukee was brand new. The angle grinders just look too bulky. When I take the next drills in to be repaired, I will ask about double sealed bearings, and see if that makes a difference, or if that is what they have been putting in all along. robo hippy |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
robo hippy wrote:
I will ask about double sealed bearings, and see if that makes a difference I hope you let us know here. That could be a nice piece of info to keep in the back of your mind until bearing time came up. Robert |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
Couldn't you use a regulator?
You can't fine tune it, and wide open is 2200 rpm. The trigger switch is very touchy, and it is difficult to get fine control. |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
In article .com,
"robo hippy" wrote: When I take the next drills in to be repaired, I will ask about double sealed bearings, and see if that makes a difference, or if that is what they have been putting in all along. Just popped open my M/S to see what kind of bearings are in there... WOW, it never occurred to me there are 3 pairs. One pair for the chuck shaft, one for the intermediate shaft between the chuck shaft and the armature shaft, and the armature which has the last pair. Most are relatively small - maybe 5/8" outside diameter (the chuck shaft pair is larger - maybe 3/4") - and appear to be shielded *only* - not sealed. The difference in replacement cost of sealed vs. shielded would be quite minimal, about 40 or 50 cents more per bearing. -- Owen Lowe Northwest Woodturners Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild ___ Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness. |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
In article ,
mac davis wrote: IMHO, being really cheap and lazy, I'd buy 3 more cheap drills before spending $75 to fix a good one... Let's see... a holder over the chisel rack with 3 cheap drills holding maybe 80, 180 & 220 grit.... You know, that's really not a bad idea - AAMOF, it's a really good idea. Let's say one commonly uses 5 grits - 120, 180, 220, 320, 400. By having 5 cheap sanders @ $30 each, you're laying out the same cash as for the M/S, gain a lot of convenience and also extend your 1.5 month cheapie tool life by 5 times or more if the failures are a factor of long run times and heat buildup. I just may have to look into this myself and dedicate my M/S to the drilling tasks it's made for. -- Owen Lowe Northwest Woodturners Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild ___ Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness. |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
On Thu, 11 May 2006 11:39:23 -0700, Owen Lowe wrote:
In article , mac davis wrote: IMHO, being really cheap and lazy, I'd buy 3 more cheap drills before spending $75 to fix a good one... Let's see... a holder over the chisel rack with 3 cheap drills holding maybe 80, 180 & 220 grit.... You know, that's really not a bad idea - AAMOF, it's a really good idea. Let's say one commonly uses 5 grits - 120, 180, 220, 320, 400. By having 5 cheap sanders @ $30 each, you're laying out the same cash as for the M/S, gain a lot of convenience and also extend your 1.5 month cheapie tool life by 5 times or more if the failures are a factor of long run times and heat buildup. I just may have to look into this myself and dedicate my M/S to the drilling tasks it's made for. See... further proof that great minds think alike, Owen.. *g* The downside is having several mandrels, but since I go through them pretty quickly, the overall cost would be the same, because each one would be used less per bowl.. *g* I use 2 sanders right now because it's a hassle changing back and forth from 3" to 2" H&L pads.. Mac https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
In article ,
mac davis wrote: I use 2 sanders right now because it's a hassle changing back and forth from 3" to 2" H&L pads.. Well, now you've just upped the quantity of cheapie drills needed to 10! -- Owen Lowe Northwest Woodturners Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild ___ Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness. |
The $29.95 angle drill continued
On Fri, 12 May 2006 11:43:01 -0700, Owen Lowe wrote:
In article , mac davis wrote: I use 2 sanders right now because it's a hassle changing back and forth from 3" to 2" H&L pads.. Well, now you've just upped the quantity of cheapie drills needed to 10! And doubles the size of the shop/shelf/rack required.. *rofl* The shop would look like a brew pub with funny red tapper handles.. Mac https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm |
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