I have just recieved a gift certificate at Lee Valley from my family!
This is good. I am interested in trying some spiral turning and am
considering the Sorby Spiraling texturing system. Any advice on
spiralling and or the value of this tool would be appreciated. Thanks
Rod.

Rod:

Saw the actual Sorby rep from England come to our local Woodcraft and
demo this tool for an entire hour a few years back. They were sure
they would be flying off the rack. When I was keen on buying one, I
did a lot of research before going to the demo as it is not a cheap
tool, and to really explore the full use of this tool, you need to buy
the "accessories".

Remember this tool is used between centers, and is a decorative tool
only.

The Sorby rep brought his own wood to turn all the way from UK, as he
was unable to find a tight grained, medium oily wood wood to cut the
tight checkering and small spirals. (He brought something called
""lemonwood"). Unless the wood you are checkering, knurling, or
spiraling is really tight grained, almost defect free, and certainly
without any swirly grain, you will have tear out you cannot fix. So
much for checkering, I thought.

It takes a lot of practice, and some really nice wood to make this tool
do the small stuff as the tool itself is actually a scraper, and in my
limited use of the tool, it tear out as much as it scrapes.

On the larger stuff he used the big wheel and made some nice looking
barley twists on a piece of some other wood, with a medium amount of
tear out, and explained how the tool could be used to make decorative
legs, etc.

However, here's the catch: The motion of your body and the density of
the actual piece you have impaled onj your lathe when using this tool
determines the tightness of the spiral. Since it is all done by eye,
every piece you do will almost certainly be a unique piece. Even the
Sorby rep admitted that it was almost impossible to turn out duplicate
spirals on two different pieces of wood.
Nice toy, but so much for spiraling.

Then he used the big wheel on the outside of a small bowl, using the
tool at a right angle angle to the piece. This allowed the tool wheel
to roll along the surface, giving the bowl rim a peened finished, kind
of like some of the guys do with a Dremel. On close inspection, you
could see that the actual peens were only dents, and were not cut
smooth. No problem says the Sorby guy, we'll just sand those little
jagged corners away. But after he did that, the peening was almost
lost.

With all that in mind and the fact that the Sorby rep admitted it took
a fair amount of practice to turn out good results, I passed. I had
the wonderful picture of me trying to put a textured rim on a bowl I
finished and how ****ed off I would be if I knicked a defect (which I
prize) and it tore out a hunk of wood.

Also, since this is some really blunt scraping, I wouldn't be able to
use it on anything with thin walls due to the flex in the wood when
pressing the tool into the piece. Couldn't use this tool to finish
anything turned greed due to the inability of the tool to cleanly cut
the green fibers.

Passed. But it is just my opinion. YMMV. Not a Sorby hater, I have a
lot of their tools I wouldn't be without. Just not this one.

Robert

I have one and it is so difficult,, I now toy around making them by
hand. Some magazine article around had a good explaination of how to do it.

John

wrote:

I have just recieved a gift certificate at Lee Valley from my family!
This is good. I am interested in trying some spiral turning and am
considering the Sorby Spiraling texturing system. Any advice on
spiralling and or the value of this tool would be appreciated. Thanks
Rod.

Thanks a lot Robert. I needed an informed opinion on this tool and
your comment surely qualifies. I think I will pass on this as well.

Rod

Thanks for the reply John. Difficult at this stage I don't need. Do
you remember the article on spiral turning you refered to.

Rod

Rod:

All the tools have gotten so expensive I take a really good look at
them before I buy anything. New stuff comes out all the time (although
this tool has been around for years) that is shown as something we must
buy, something we have to have or we aren't even in the game.
Woodturning is no longer a cheap activity, and for most the cost of the
lathe is the cheapest part of the deal if you add up all the chucks,
chisels, buffing stuff, finishes, sandpaper, hollowing stuff, specialty
tools, additional faceplates, and on an on.

And the farther I get along this path, the fewer tools I use. I have a
lot of tools, some I made, some I bought, some are excellent quality,
some are not too good, and some were aquired as part of other purchases
when the business was going away. But in reality, I only use about 5
of 80-90 tools I own. My original Delta set from 1996 or '97 hasn't
seen the light of day in years.

When I demo or teach, I really try to stress that people use the tools
they have to their fullest capacity, and not be afraid to make their
own tools, a la Feltmate. Since the lathe tools are incredibly hard to
completely ruin (although when deep hollowing I did get a catch from a
loose knot that bent my gouge about 2 inches!) you should experiment
with wild abandon with stance, presentation, and intent. Learning to
use the tools one probably already has will save an awful lot of $$$.

Robert

If you want to do spiraling and other fancies, an ornamental mill will
work with most any wood. At least my Legacy does, my first project was
a very nice maple pen with a rope spiral - no tearouts - and will be
soon working with walnut and oak. Since the legacy uses a router, the
power to cut doesn't go through the wood as it does in a lathe and the
surface is as clean as with any router work. No, it's not really
turning but the results are great and, although the process requires
much forethought, is fairly easy.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Rod:

All the tools have gotten so expensive I take a really good look at
them before I buy anything. New stuff comes out all the time (although
this tool has been around for years) that is shown as something we must
buy, something we have to have or we aren't even in the game.
Woodturning is no longer a cheap activity, and for most the cost of the
lathe is the cheapest part of the deal if you add up all the chucks,
chisels, buffing stuff, finishes, sandpaper, hollowing stuff, specialty
tools, additional faceplates, and on an on.

And the farther I get along this path, the fewer tools I use. I have a
lot of tools, some I made, some I bought, some are excellent quality,
some are not too good, and some were aquired as part of other purchases
when the business was going away. But in reality, I only use about 5
of 80-90 tools I own. My original Delta set from 1996 or '97 hasn't
seen the light of day in years.

When I demo or teach, I really try to stress that people use the tools
they have to their fullest capacity, and not be afraid to make their
own tools, a la Feltmate. Since the lathe tools are incredibly hard to
completely ruin (although when deep hollowing I did get a catch from a
loose knot that bent my gouge about 2 inches!) you should experiment
with wild abandon with stance, presentation, and intent. Learning to
use the tools one probably already has will save an awful lot of $$$.

Robert
============================
Robert,
Your opinion is similar to mine and a lot of others on this group. I started
off with the $6.00 (on sale) HF tool set. With that I learned to sharpen,
then found out how reshaping would affect the cut, them made some of my own,
and finally, after the soft carbon steel tools were worn to a nub, I
upgraded to a HSS set. I found thru all this that bowl gouges, chucks, and a
lot of the "essential" trools we see in all the catalogs, are luxuries (but
nice to have). After you understand that turning is all about getting a
piece of steel into position to cut a piece of wood, then the special
purpose tools should be evaluated on this basis. I know that George can use
one of his "pointy gouges" to turn most anything but a deep hollow form, and
Darrell can do pretty much the same thing with an Oland tool.

A lot of the things a texturing tool does could probably be done with a
stripped down grinding wheel dresser with some modification and
experimentation. A chatter tool can be made by using a HSS steel hack saw
blade. A couple of pieces of drill rod can give you several different tools.
A 1/4 or 3/8 in. mortising chisel becomes a workable bedan, and on and on.
Purpose built tools are nice to have, but they should be evaluated against a
"Do I really need it?", "Can I do the same thing with something I already
have?", "Can I build a similar device for 5-10% of cost of the commercial
product?" and most important, "Do I want to be the first kid on the block to
have this thing?". If the answer to the last question is 'Yes", forget all
the previous and go get one! FWIW

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

Spiral turning? That is very easy to do. I keep unintentionally doing it
with a skew.

Artak

wrote in message
ups.com...
I have just recieved a gift certificate at Lee Valley from my family!
This is good. I am interested in trying some spiral turning and am
considering the Sorby Spiraling texturing system. Any advice on
spiralling and or the value of this tool would be appreciated. Thanks
Rod.

I'll have a look. It's very good.

wrote:
Thanks for the reply John. Difficult at this stage I don't need. Do
you remember the article on spiral turning you refered to.

Rod

"Artak Kalantarian" wrote: Spiral turning? That is very easy to do. I keep
unintentionally doing it with a skew.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, but don't you have the problem referred to earlier--can you do two
alike? ;-)

Ken Moon wrote:

SNIP

George can use
one of his "pointy gouges" to turn most anything but a deep hollow
form, and
Darrell can do pretty much the same thing with an Oland tool.

A lot of the things a texturing tool does could probably be done with a

stripped down grinding wheel dresser with some modification and
experimentation. A chatter tool can be made by using a HSS steel hack
saw
blade. A couple of pieces of drill rod can give you several different
tools.

SNIP

Exactly. When Phil Brennon was a guest turner at our club, he
textured the rim of a bowl with a small chainsaw tool that he bought
after having luck with a regular chainsaw. He said in a more
experimental vein, he tried "Baretta texturing" on a piece and he
showed us pics of his technique. He put the piece on the ground, and
shot it a couple of times with a shotgun with #7s in it. And yes,
(Phil chuckled), the piece sold. Someone loved the embedded silver
metal beads.

In a broader since of this thread, I am concerned with where
woodturning is going dollar/cost wise. We have a lot of retired
turners in our group, and they either have disposable income, or a
pretty tight budget. Taking that to the next step, some of the younger
single guys have money and they can buy anything and everything, and
some of the younger single guys have kids (which equals little or no
money) and no bag of money to spend on tools.

I am keenly interested in helping those on a shoestring budget make the
most of their turning endeavors, and really want some of those guys
around. It is not a lark for them, and they have made a conscious
effort to take woodturning seriously. Buy a Sorby roughing gouge at
$75 bucks (*cough* choke*) is hard for me, but they literally have to
save for two to three months before they can buy one. I have worked
hard for everything I have, and they have too, but I am just farther
down the road of life. Some of those guys are so greatful for the
smallest thing it is almost embarassing to me.

And the older guys... this honestly hurts me. Some of those guys are
barely making it on their fixed incomes, and they are turning on old
Sears monotubes (yes, in the right hands they can turn our great work)
and of our older guys is turning on a Jet mini that his family got
together and bought him. He turns with a mishmash of all different
manner of ancient tools, strange grinds, and poor equipment. But when
I sharpened his parting tool correctly for him, showed him how to
sharpen it, and then showed him how to use it, he just beamed. He must
of shaken my hand five times before he left our workshop day. I want
these guys in our club. The guys that want to turn for the love of
turning, and the good comraderie we are getting back in our club.

But we need to keep the new blood, young and old in the club and we are
having problems with retention. The same old guys (like me) somce very
meeting and I miss hearing new ideas and seeing the enthusiasm of
someone that is really getting going in this craft. But I have talked
to people that have quit our club and found that they have actually
quit turning altogether. They could not afford lessons, and since they
don't use their tools for as many applications as one might, they feel
like they just can't afford the tools they need to keep up. Not
everyone learns the same, and they are frustrated by someone telling
them to go buy yet another $30 book or $45 DVD to learn how to use
their new $75 tool properly. Hence, they decide to quit.

So, since we are no longer affiliated with Woodcraft anymore on any
level (they used to give members a 10% discount on turning stuff, and
paid our whopping $25 annual fee to purchasers of new lathes) I am
trying to change things. Before we had to be sensitive to Woodcraft by
not selling any competing products or they would cut our discounts.
Since they have cut that off anyway, I am trying to lead a charge
forward.

The prez and vice prez and I are working towards having more workshops
which have been rousing successes, hopefully once a quarter. I am
wanting to give one of our monthy demos not to show how to turn, but
how to make some simple sharpening jigs. Most here will readily
acknowledge that sharpening is as important as anything else you do in
this craft. But remember back to a time when it was a frustrating
chore, or you didn't know how, and you either ground the snot out of
your tools or someone took the time to show you their technique. I am
also working with two different tool makers/distributors to bring in a
line of high quality, good value, hard working tools for our group so
that everyone can play. I mean hey... I want this club to be around
when I am one of the old guys. At fifty, I don't qualify by a long
stroke in our club.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now.

And Ken.... HOW ABOUT THOSE HORNS!!!

Robert L. Witte
San Antonio, Texas

Robert
Knud Oland was saying some of these same things back in the '70s. He either
designed or recalled some old designs for inserted tip tools for turners
with the plan that anyone could make one in the home shop. I find that I use
almost exclusively home made tools now with the exception of a roughing
gouge and a skew and when my commercial ones wear out I doubt that I will
buy new ones, just make substitutes. The reasons are
1) cost new bowl gouge $60+, new Oland $5, new Oland tip $1
2) enjoyment, I like tool making
3) satisfaction "I make it myself with tools I make myself"
4) they work as well as or better than tools I can buy
5) I need something that will ...... faster to make it than to do the 2 hour
round trip to buy it or the week to send for it
See the web site under making tools for some hints including those low cost
sharpening jigs.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

AMEN

TomNie

"Artak Kalantarian" wrote in message
...
Spiral turning? That is very easy to do. I keep unintentionally doing it
with a skew.

Artak

wrote in message
ups.com...
I have just recieved a gift certificate at Lee Valley from my family!
This is good. I am interested in trying some spiral turning and am
considering the Sorby Spiraling texturing system. Any advice on
spiralling and or the value of this tool would be appreciated. Thanks
Rod.

Robert, great thoughts.

Took North Carolina to develop the coach, you know!

TomNie

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ken Moon wrote:

SNIP

George can use
one of his "pointy gouges" to turn most anything but a deep hollow
form, and
Darrell can do pretty much the same thing with an Oland tool.

A lot of the things a texturing tool does could probably be done with a

stripped down grinding wheel dresser with some modification and
experimentation. A chatter tool can be made by using a HSS steel hack
saw
blade. A couple of pieces of drill rod can give you several different
tools.

SNIP

Exactly. When Phil Brennon was a guest turner at our club, he
textured the rim of a bowl with a small chainsaw tool that he bought
after having luck with a regular chainsaw. He said in a more
experimental vein, he tried "Baretta texturing" on a piece and he
showed us pics of his technique. He put the piece on the ground, and
shot it a couple of times with a shotgun with #7s in it. And yes,
(Phil chuckled), the piece sold. Someone loved the embedded silver
metal beads.

In a broader since of this thread, I am concerned with where
woodturning is going dollar/cost wise. We have a lot of retired
turners in our group, and they either have disposable income, or a
pretty tight budget. Taking that to the next step, some of the younger
single guys have money and they can buy anything and everything, and
some of the younger single guys have kids (which equals little or no
money) and no bag of money to spend on tools.

I am keenly interested in helping those on a shoestring budget make the
most of their turning endeavors, and really want some of those guys
around. It is not a lark for them, and they have made a conscious
effort to take woodturning seriously. Buy a Sorby roughing gouge at
$75 bucks (*cough* choke*) is hard for me, but they literally have to
save for two to three months before they can buy one. I have worked
hard for everything I have, and they have too, but I am just farther
down the road of life. Some of those guys are so greatful for the
smallest thing it is almost embarassing to me.

And the older guys... this honestly hurts me. Some of those guys are
barely making it on their fixed incomes, and they are turning on old
Sears monotubes (yes, in the right hands they can turn our great work)
and of our older guys is turning on a Jet mini that his family got
together and bought him. He turns with a mishmash of all different
manner of ancient tools, strange grinds, and poor equipment. But when
I sharpened his parting tool correctly for him, showed him how to
sharpen it, and then showed him how to use it, he just beamed. He must
of shaken my hand five times before he left our workshop day. I want
these guys in our club. The guys that want to turn for the love of
turning, and the good comraderie we are getting back in our club.

But we need to keep the new blood, young and old in the club and we are
having problems with retention. The same old guys (like me) somce very
meeting and I miss hearing new ideas and seeing the enthusiasm of
someone that is really getting going in this craft. But I have talked
to people that have quit our club and found that they have actually
quit turning altogether. They could not afford lessons, and since they
don't use their tools for as many applications as one might, they feel
like they just can't afford the tools they need to keep up. Not
everyone learns the same, and they are frustrated by someone telling
them to go buy yet another $30 book or $45 DVD to learn how to use
their new $75 tool properly. Hence, they decide to quit.

So, since we are no longer affiliated with Woodcraft anymore on any
level (they used to give members a 10% discount on turning stuff, and
paid our whopping $25 annual fee to purchasers of new lathes) I am
trying to change things. Before we had to be sensitive to Woodcraft by
not selling any competing products or they would cut our discounts.
Since they have cut that off anyway, I am trying to lead a charge
forward.

The prez and vice prez and I are working towards having more workshops
which have been rousing successes, hopefully once a quarter. I am
wanting to give one of our monthy demos not to show how to turn, but
how to make some simple sharpening jigs. Most here will readily
acknowledge that sharpening is as important as anything else you do in
this craft. But remember back to a time when it was a frustrating
chore, or you didn't know how, and you either ground the snot out of
your tools or someone took the time to show you their technique. I am
also working with two different tool makers/distributors to bring in a
line of high quality, good value, hard working tools for our group so
that everyone can play. I mean hey... I want this club to be around
when I am one of the old guys. At fifty, I don't qualify by a long
stroke in our club.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now.

And Ken.... HOW ABOUT THOSE HORNS!!!

Robert L. Witte
San Antonio, Texas

Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Robert
Knud Oland was saying some of these same things back in the '70s. He either
SNIP
See the web site under making tools for some hints including those low cost
sharpening jigs.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Whoa!! I just spent the afternoon on your site. Great stuff!!!

I really like the videos. This is what I needed to see and read,
Thanks!

Terry
Thanks. I really enjoy getting the web page up there and the responses have
been great. Speaking of video, I watch one for about 15 minutes in the
morning as I jog. Lately I have been experimenting with turning end grain
and taping myself as I do so, then using it for the morning jog. It is a
great way to see what I do wrong and hopefully improve it.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Darrell:

You are certainly the one that comes to mind when I think of someone
that is trying to keep a handle on things dollarwise. No telling how
many people your website has inspired to do not only many of the things
you have so wonderfully detailed, but then to go out and do something
on their own.

I have given your website address to many, and while only a couple have
actually done something with the info, I think in time many will. It
took some pictures and explanations for them to actually understand
that the needed tools aren't necessarily the ones being pushed by some
famous turner, and that what we are doing is not brain surgery. Making
their own tools just never crossed their minds.

I don't want this craft to go the way of golf. I was never a serious
duffer by any means, but now.. forget it. Only the well to do or
subsidized can afford that sport. And what it has done to the sport?
Mostly older, well heeled retirees play. I don't have any problem with
that at all, but I don't want to see woodturning go that route. Almost
none of my old buddies that grew up playing the muni courses as kids
play anywhere anymore. Simply too expensive.

We need to keep all the old ones, new ones, and any of the interested
ones. And like anything else, this is a dollar driven issue. Only if
it stays popular/affordable will it continue to grow and evolve at this
exciting pace.

And Darrell, I know I speak for many, many netizens here. Thank you so
much for your unselfish efforts to document, organize and post your
ideas and efforts.

Just keep it up, OK? ;^)

Robert

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ken Moon wrote:

And Ken.... HOW ABOUT THOSE HORNS!!!

Robert L. Witte
San Antonio, Texas
++++++++++++++++++
Robert,
Very few bowl games come any where near their hype. This one did with lots
left over! Since I grew up in Alabama, and was attending Auburn when they
won the title in '57, they'll always be my guys. But living so close to
Austin, I have to root for UT, also. And my wife, a die hard Razorbacker,
was also into this one. I don't think many who saw that last 2 minutes will
soon forget it.

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

Dig up a Woodturning Design magazine. Winter 2005 copy. Page 62 to 65,
Spiral Turnings by Bill Bowers. The cover photo is some plate with a
dragonfly inlay on it.

J

wrote:
Thanks for the reply John. Difficult at this stage I don't need. Do
you remember the article on spiral turning you refered to.

Rod

Thanks for the help. I am presently in search of the issue.

Rod

http://www.woodturningdesign.com/issues/back.shtml


Bottom one.




wrote:
Thanks for the help. I am presently in search of the issue.

Rod

http://www.woodturningdesign.com/issues/back.shtml

Issue #4 Winter 2005





wrote:

Thanks for the help. I am presently in search of the issue.

Rod