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Power sanding with the "sioux"?
I have come to the stage where non-powered sanding just is not good enough
(elm and ash bowls of 15"-20") and I have searched the Google for advice as to what other people use. The gadget with most appeal to me seems to be the Sioux, right-angle drill, (electric, _not_ pneumatic!) currently _not_ sold by Amazon, and - it seems - nowhere else either. Anybody out there with some advice as to what I can do, or with some alternative drill that can do the same job satisfactorily? Bjarte |
Bjarte:
You can buy it as a Milwaukee. I think I've seen it in the big box stores. I know that some people have had bearing trouble with it but mine has been fine. The angle makes sanding easier, I think. Recently I had to go back to a normal drill (I left the Milwaukee at the warehouse) and had forgotten how much better the angled head works. Bill Bjarte Runderheim wrote: I have come to the stage where non-powered sanding just is not good enough (elm and ash bowls of 15"-20") and I have searched the Google for advice as to what other people use. The gadget with most appeal to me seems to be the Sioux, right-angle drill, (electric, _not_ pneumatic!) currently _not_ sold by Amazon, and - it seems - nowhere else either. Anybody out there with some advice as to what I can do, or with some alternative drill that can do the same job satisfactorily? Bjarte |
Hi Bjarte, In case the 'Sage of Upper Michigan' is out in his garden,
I'll mention that there are advantages to using a flex shaft and a discarded motor. He can expound later. All best, Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
I like the Makita 6501 1/4" drill. Here is one source, so you can see it
http://www.toolbarn.com/product/makita/6501/ Unlike the right angle drills that seem to wear out certain bearings, this is a durable drill. For sanding the bottom of bowls, I can hold it in one hand by the barrel with the speed locked on. It is not reversible. If reversibility is essential for you, maybe you could try a router speed controller. I tried a 3/8" drill and it felt huge and awkward for this job. |
Bjarte the Souix and the Milwaukee close quarter drill are identical.
One costs more than the other. The rear bearings in both have a tendency to wear out from sanding dust. The back bearing is not packed in grease as are the front bearings. You can forstall the wear out replace problem by blowing out the rea bearng (and for the at matter the front) periodically with compressed air. You can get the Milwaukee on ebay for about $70 sometimes less. They seems to be easy to lift and pawn shops offer them. There are cheap knock offs on ebay. They run around $25. Almost cheap enough to be considered disposable. You can tell the knock offs because in the pictures there is a black tab near the handle on the cord. Some pepole buy the knock off and when it is gone get another. I have all three types. All work well. The Souix has had to have its switch replaced twoice in three years. No bearing replacement but they are available at Boca Bearing in Florida for about $11. Darryl |
"Arch" wrote in message ... Hi Bjarte, In case the 'Sage of Upper Michigan' is out in his garden, I'll mention that there are advantages to using a flex shaft and a discarded motor. He can expound later. All best, What? Recommend something cheaper? Something that doesn't burn your hand from the heat it generates or fill the family TV with static? Worse, the flex shaft is supported on a neutral tool rest, not the work, generates less surface heat and keeps the sandpaper good longer. Doesn't dive into the soft stuff and slide over the hard, that way either. Now why would anyone want to use such a piece of gear when they could have a heavy drill motor, however ergonomic, to use instead? |
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:35:17 GMT, "Bjarte Runderheim"
wrote: I have come to the stage where non-powered sanding just is not good enough (elm and ash bowls of 15"-20") and I have searched the Google for advice as to what other people use. The gadget with most appeal to me seems to be the Sioux, right-angle drill, (electric, _not_ pneumatic!) currently _not_ sold by Amazon, and - it seems - nowhere else either. Anybody out there with some advice as to what I can do, or with some alternative drill that can do the same job satisfactorily? Bjarte your budget is bigger than mine... *g* I use my old craftsman corded 3/8 drill and assorted H&L disc holders to sand most bowls... I have a Harbor Freight right angle adapter that I use on a flex- power shaft, if the drill won't get me there... it's more hassle, but worth it.. If you can afford the Milwaukee, go for it... it gets great reviews.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message ... You can buy it as a Milwaukee. I think I've seen it in the big box stores. I know that some people have had bearing trouble with it but mine has been fine. The angle makes sanding easier, I think. Recently I had to go back to a normal drill (I left the Milwaukee at the warehouse) and had forgotten how much better the angled head works. Thanks for the tip. However, I need a 220/240V version, and the Milwaukee homepage cite 2 versions, a high speed and a low speed, both of them 110V. Is there a solution for this? Bjarte |
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:14:26 +0000, Bjarte Runderheim put fingers to
keyboard and said: "Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message ... You can buy it as a Milwaukee. I think I've seen it in the big box stores. I know that some people have had bearing trouble with it but mine has been fine. The angle makes sanding easier, I think. Recently I had to go back to a normal drill (I left the Milwaukee at the warehouse) and had forgotten how much better the angled head works. Thanks for the tip. However, I need a 220/240V version, and the Milwaukee homepage cite 2 versions, a high speed and a low speed, both of them 110V. Is there a solution for this? I think it's called a transformer :-) -- +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ Bruce Bowler | I do some of my best work in the basement. - Ross | Donolow +-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ |
Bharte,
I have several of the Sioux angle drills. I do wear out the bearings on at least one of them per year. The problem is that they are drills, and not grinders, which is what they become with a 3 inch disc on them. Just remember to go lightly with them, don't push down hard. They will save you a lot of time. They are available from both Craft supplies and Packard. There is a new model out that has a more powerful motor. I should get one and give it the demolition test to see if it will take more abuse than the others. As far as slow or high speed, I like the high speed better, and sand with the lathe on the slowest speed. I know of others who sand on higher speeds, and prefer the slow speed. robo hippy mac davis wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:35:17 GMT, "Bjarte Runderheim" wrote: I have come to the stage where non-powered sanding just is not good enough (elm and ash bowls of 15"-20") and I have searched the Google for advice as to what other people use. The gadget with most appeal to me seems to be the Sioux, right-angle drill, (electric, _not_ pneumatic!) currently _not_ sold by Amazon, and - it seems - nowhere else either. Anybody out there with some advice as to what I can do, or with some alternative drill that can do the same job satisfactorily? Bjarte your budget is bigger than mine... *g* I use my old craftsman corded 3/8 drill and assorted H&L disc holders to sand most bowls... I have a Harbor Freight right angle adapter that I use on a flex- power shaft, if the drill won't get me there... it's more hassle, but worth it.. If you can afford the Milwaukee, go for it... it gets great reviews.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
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I know the Sioux/Milwaukee close-quarter drill appears to be the tool of
choice (according to posts to this NG and others) but I find my old Panasonic 9.6 volt cordless does a perfectly acceptable job of power sanding. It has a T-handle and two speed ranges. The high range 0-1500 rpm works just fine. I find I really don't need more speed than that. In fact, a higher speed might cause heat-checking in the wood. Barry "Bjarte Runderheim" wrote in message ... I have come to the stage where non-powered sanding just is not good enough (elm and ash bowls of 15"-20") and I have searched the Google for advice as to what other people use. The gadget with most appeal to me seems to be the Sioux, right-angle drill, (electric, _not_ pneumatic!) currently _not_ sold by Amazon, and - it seems - nowhere else either. Anybody out there with some advice as to what I can do, or with some alternative drill that can do the same job satisfactorily? Bjarte |
"Owen Lowe" wrote in message ... In article .com, wrote: SNIP....... Having just purchased the Milwaukee angle drill, I was reading the... (wait for it Arch, wait for it, wait for it) . . . Instruction manual. Therein is a blurb under "Maintenance" stating, "after six months to one year, depending on use, return your tool to the nearest Milwaukee service facility for the following:" "* Lubrication * Brush inspection and replacement * Mechanical inspection and cleaning (gears, spindles, bearings, housing, etc.) * Electrical inspection (switch, cord, armature, etc.) * Testing to assure proper mechanical and electrical operation" How many have actually followed this recommendation? How many of the bearing failures would have been averted had the owner followed the manufacturer's maintenance guidelines? ======================== How many of the cheap knock-offs can you buy for the cost of this "maintenance"?? My idea would be to buy a couple of sets of brushes, and a good quality set of sealed bearings, then replace as needed. A good set of bearings should last longer than the reported life span reported here. Ken Moon Webberville, TX. |
"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message ... I know the Sioux/Milwaukee close-quarter drill appears to be the tool of choice (according to posts to this NG and others) but I find my old Panasonic 9.6 volt cordless does a perfectly acceptable job of power sanding. It has a T-handle and two speed ranges. The high range 0-1500 rpm works just fine. I find I really don't need more speed than that. In fact, a higher speed might cause heat-checking in the wood. Got a Makita right angle that's great for off-the-lathe touchups myself. I use low range, because it doesn't see grits coarser than 320. Those with the ubiquitous 1" 8tpi chuck might find it handy to get a couple bolts - one headless for use in the banjo, one to mount through a 2x4 to be held in a bench vise. Keeps 'em from running away. |
Owen,
I have 3 of the Sioux angle drills and perform routine maintenance (repairs) myself. It is fairly simple to change the brushes and replace the lower bearing. I keep replacement bearings on hand since the life of the lower bearing is limited. My own experience indicates the lower bearing will fail unless the drill is not used. The replacement bearing can be found for under 4 dollars online, and local bearing supply houses charge about 7 dollars. This is probably a lot cheaper than having a qualified service facility perform the same maintenance. When you first notice erratic speed or abnormal noise the drill should be inspected for lower bearing failure. Continued use can cause the inner and outer races to seize. If this occurs the outer race will spin causing damage to the housing where the lower bearing is held in place. (learned lesson) Most turners have the skill required to perform the necessary maintenance on these drills. Good Luck, Kirk Having just purchased the Milwaukee angle drill, I was reading the... (wait for it Arch, wait for it, wait for it) . . . Instruction manual. Therein is a blurb under "Maintenance" stating, "after six months to one year, depending on use, return your tool to the nearest Milwaukee service facility for the following:" "* Lubrication * Brush inspection and replacement * Mechanical inspection and cleaning (gears, spindles, bearings, housing, etc.) * Electrical inspection (switch, cord, armature, etc.) * Testing to assure proper mechanical and electrical operation" How many have actually followed this recommendation? How many of the bearing failures would have been averted had the owner followed the manufacturer's maintenance guidelines? |
Oh by the way. The first Milwaukee close quarter drill had the
reversing switch on the rear of the case near where the cord entered the machine. The later version had the reversing switch on the top. I understand that the rear switch is no longer available and there are none apparently in the Milwaukee supply chain. If you buy on ebay make certain you get the later version if possible. There might be a work around just haven 't thought about it. Of course one could always have it always revovle in one direction only. |
You can find reasonably good Sioux look-a-likes on Ebay. Just do a search
for "close-quarter drills". They sell for around $40. There are also reconditioned Milwaukee and Sioux brands available. Barry "Bjarte Runderheim" wrote in message ... I have come to the stage where non-powered sanding just is not good enough (elm and ash bowls of 15"-20") and I have searched the Google for advice as to what other people use. The gadget with most appeal to me seems to be the Sioux, right-angle drill, (electric, _not_ pneumatic!) currently _not_ sold by Amazon, and - it seems - nowhere else either. Anybody out there with some advice as to what I can do, or with some alternative drill that can do the same job satisfactorily? Bjarte |
Thanks for the tip.
I have to admit...I might be tempted to buy one of those Ebay knock-offs...just see how they compare to the real thing. . But I notice that most of the sellers I checked seem to have a higher than average amount of negative feedback. And some seem to pad the shipping (i.e....$16.99 to ship a lightweight tool). mmi Barry N. Turner wrote: You can find reasonably good Sioux look-a-likes on Ebay. Just do a search for "close-quarter drills". They sell for around $40. There are also reconditioned Milwaukee and Sioux brands available. Barry "Bjarte Runderheim" wrote in message ... I have come to the stage where non-powered sanding just is not good enough (elm and ash bowls of 15"-20") and I have searched the Google for advice as to what other people use. The gadget with most appeal to me seems to be the Sioux, right-angle drill, (electric, _not_ pneumatic!) currently _not_ sold by Amazon, and - it seems - nowhere else either. Anybody out there with some advice as to what I can do, or with some alternative drill that can do the same job satisfactorily? Bjarte |
In article ,
Kirk wrote: Most turners have the skill required to perform the necessary maintenance on these drills. Right. I guess I wasn't as clear as I intended with my post about Milwaukee's recommendations. The manufacturer is advising overhauls and tuneups on a 6 to 12 month schedule. That seems pretty frequent to me but then again I haven't read the instructions to any other drill in quite some time so don't recall others' recommended schedules. My point was that given Milwaukee's advice we shouldn't expect the angle drill to be a low or no-maintenance tool - and shouldn't be particularly surprised at 6-12 month bearing replacements. -- Owen Lowe Northwest Woodturners, Cascade Woodturners, Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild ___ Safety Tip'o'th'week: Never grind aluminum and steel or iron on the same machine or workstation - Thermite. http://www.hanford.gov/lessons/sitell/ll01/2001-36.htm |
In article ,
Me myself and I wrote: And some seem to pad the shipping (i.e....$16.99 to ship a lightweight tool). I wouldn't call the Milwaukee angled drill a light weight tool - it has some good heft to it and wouldn't surprise me that it would be a couple pounds shipping... OK, just had to put this to rest for my own sake: Amazon lists the Milwaukee 3/8" close-quarter drill at 3.5 lbs (they also call it light weight, btw); Shipping via USPS from Oregon to New York would be $7.87 via Parcel Post and $10.35 via Priority Mail. Add in a couple bucks for insurance and you're not too far off the $17. (I'm not saying it's not padded but it's not waaaaay out of line - and if a higher volume seller has to buy any shipping supplies he has to make up that cost.) -- Owen Lowe Northwest Woodturners, Cascade Woodturners, Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild ___ Safety Tip'o'th'week: Never grind aluminum and steel or iron on the same machine or workstation - Thermite. http://www.hanford.gov/lessons/sitell/ll01/2001-36.htm |
"Owen Lowe" wrote in message ... In article , Kirk wrote: Most turners have the skill required to perform the necessary maintenance on these drills. Right. I guess I wasn't as clear as I intended with my post about Milwaukee's recommendations. The manufacturer is advising overhauls and tuneups on a 6 to 12 month schedule. That seems pretty frequent to me but then again I haven't read the instructions to any other drill in quite some time so don't recall others' recommended schedules. My point was that given Milwaukee's advice we shouldn't expect the angle drill to be a low or no-maintenance tool - and shouldn't be particularly surprised at 6-12 month bearing replacements. Especially when it's being misused as a sander, which demands longer "on" times than drilling and produces a lot more crud. |
Hi Owen
That's the way I looked at it also, for that reason I use most often a cheap normal drill, I got a few, (refurbished returned ones) and only use my Milwaukee when needed, have used it for 3 or 4 years and so far have opened it one time, to clean and lube, she's still working fine. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo Owen Lowe wrote: Right. I guess I wasn't as clear as I intended with my post about Milwaukee's recommendations. The manufacturer is advising overhauls and tuneups on a 6 to 12 month schedule. That seems pretty frequent to me but then again I haven't read the instructions to any other drill in quite some time so don't recall others' recommended schedules. My point was that given Milwaukee's advice we shouldn't expect the angle drill to be a low or no-maintenance tool - and shouldn't be particularly surprised at 6-12 month bearing replacements. |
Try searching E-bay for the Milwaukee Close Quarter Drill or just
Close Quarter Drill I got one last year and am happy I did the speeds are the same as far as I can remember. There are also some less expensive knock-offs listed. "Bjarte Runderheim" wrote in message ... I have come to the stage where non-powered sanding just is not good enough (elm and ash bowls of 15"-20") and I have searched the Google for advice as to what other people use. The gadget with most appeal to me seems to be the Sioux, right-angle drill, (electric, _not_ pneumatic!) currently _not_ sold by Amazon, and - it seems - nowhere else either. Anybody out there with some advice as to what I can do, or with some alternative drill that can do the same job satisfactorily? Bjarte |
"Leo Van Der Loo" wrote in message ... Hi Owen That's the way I looked at it also, for that reason I use most often a cheap normal drill, I got a few, (refurbished returned ones) and only use my Milwaukee when needed, have used it for 3 or 4 years and so far have opened it one time, to clean and lube, she's still working fine. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo Owen Lowe wrote: Right. I guess I wasn't as clear as I intended with my post about Milwaukee's recommendations. The manufacturer is advising overhauls and tuneups on a 6 to 12 month schedule. That seems pretty frequent to me but then again I haven't read the instructions to any other drill in quite some time so don't recall others' recommended schedules. My point was that given Milwaukee's advice we shouldn't expect the angle drill to be a low or no-maintenance tool - and shouldn't be particularly surprised at 6-12 month bearing replacements. Guys, having used the Sioux drills for 20 years or so, I have a few insights. First, take your Sioux (Milwaukee) drill apart, clean out all the grease in the gear case. Install the gears, chuck, armature, etc. into one half of the housing. Fill that half housing with engine assembly lube (get it at your auto supply). This is a much lighter weight, much higher quality lube. The result will be a drill that runs much cooler, much longer. Second, while you have the drill apart, get the front/rear bearing numbers and brush details and order bearings and brushes now. Then, when you need them, you will have them. If you have compressed air, blow out the drill occasionally. You will not blow dust into the bearings, etc, but will get rid of the crud. If you do this, you can keep your drills running for a very long time. Oh, might order a switch also, just in case. If you are curious why a lighter grease is better, ask. I will explain to you about 'shearing' and the energy/heat required to shear the heavy grease. Best regards, James R. Johnson |
"Bjarte Runderheim" wrote in message ... I have come to the stage where non-powered sanding just is not good enough (elm and ash bowls of 15"-20") and I have searched the Google for advice as to what other people use. The gadget with most appeal to me seems to be the Sioux, right-angle drill, Thanks to all for all the tips and insights on this topic. It has helped me a lot. Bjarte |
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