IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:


Allegations and proven guilty, as was Tory Porter, are two different

things.


http://society.guardian.co.uk/charit...847516,00.html

http://www.historyandpolicy.org/arch...-print-18.html
"Second, centralising power, authority and funding in the Minister and
his department has failed to deliver what government wants. Command and
control does not work. The micro-management of targets from Whitehall
has become a farce. Scandals of NHS procurement, of IT investment
vitiated by corruption, of financial blunders leading to mountainous
local debts, of corporate governance arrangements that permit conflicts
of interest to arise and continue, have provided unceasing noises off
for two decades and no doubt more. Along the line, responsibility for
the mess has become blurred in a nightmare forest of organisations that
alter shape overnight, and in a quick-change army of foresters who
regulate and inspect. And alongside it all, the democratic deficit that
is Bevan's inheritance has resulted in a sham local accountability
unable to add value because it has no real control over things on the
ground. Again, one wonders whether a service devolved to local
government to run, as Morrison wanted, could have brought about less
effective control than this?"

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr261/foot.htm



http://www.yorkshireposttoday.co.uk/...ionID=55&Artic
leID=812722

"A FORMER council official and three builders were yesterday given
suspended jail sentences at a court case which brought the final curtain
down on the Donnygate corruption scandal.
Bill Stones, a former Doncaster Council officer, was initially given a
one-year prison term by Judge Simon Jack for accepting "sweeteners" from
the builders."

To name but a few.


Hardly in the Tory Porter league, and she was only the one of them being
caught.


There were far larger scandals exposed in labour councils in the 70's. I
can't actually find any references to them tho. before Internet.

However we were not having a willy waving contest on which particular
council is the most corrupt, merely falsifying your naive assumption
that the planning laws are not subject to being bent and broken by
liberal applications of kickbacks. Its been proved that in *at least one
case, in a court of law*, it was.

That is all that is needed to prove you wrong.

The fact that the majority of material I came up with was councils
internal policy documents trying to demonstrate how corruption free they
are, is also highly suggestive. 'Methinks they doth protest too much'.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:


Allegations and proven guilty, as was Tory Porter, are two different

things.


http://society.guardian.co.uk/charit...847516,00.html

http://www.historyandpolicy.org/arch...-print-18.html
"Second, centralising power, authority and funding in the Minister and
his department has failed to deliver what government wants. Command and
control does not work. The micro-management of targets from Whitehall
has become a farce. Scandals of NHS procurement, of IT investment
vitiated by corruption, of financial blunders leading to mountainous
local debts, of corporate governance arrangements that permit conflicts
of interest to arise and continue, have provided unceasing noises off
for two decades and no doubt more. Along the line, responsibility for
the mess has become blurred in a nightmare forest of organisations that
alter shape overnight, and in a quick-change army of foresters who
regulate and inspect. And alongside it all, the democratic deficit that
is Bevan's inheritance has resulted in a sham local accountability
unable to add value because it has no real control over things on the
ground. Again, one wonders whether a service devolved to local
government to run, as Morrison wanted, could have brought about less
effective control than this?"

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr261/foot.htm




http://www.yorkshireposttoday.co.uk/...ionID=55&Artic
leID=812722

"A FORMER council official and three builders were yesterday given
suspended jail sentences at a court case which brought the final curtain
down on the Donnygate corruption scandal.
Bill Stones, a former Doncaster Council officer, was initially given a
one-year prison term by Judge Simon Jack for accepting "sweeteners" from
the builders."

To name but a few.


Hardly in the Tory Porter league, and she was only the one of them being
caught.


There were far larger scandals exposed in labour councils in the 70's. I
can't actually find any references to them tho. before Internet.

Stop making things up.

However we were not having a willy waving contest on which particular
council is the most corrupt, merely falsifying your naive assumption
that the planning laws are not subject to being bent and broken by
liberal applications of kickbacks. Its been proved that in *at least one
case, in a court of law*, it was.

So, only one, and a small one at that. As I say "Hardly in the Tory Porter
league", and then there was Mark Thatcher who suddenly became super, super
wealthy, and Ridley, enviro minister, who had extensions built in the
Cotswolds and opposed all others, and that slag from Essex, Gorman, who
built parts of her house without planning permission, etc, etc.

That is all that is needed to prove you wrong.

Feeble attempt too.

IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
.. .


IMM wrote:



Allegations and proven guilty, as was Tory Porter, are two different

things.


http://society.guardian.co.uk/charit...847516,00.html

http://www.historyandpolicy.org/arch...-print-18.html
"Second, centralising power, authority and funding in the Minister and
his department has failed to deliver what government wants. Command and
control does not work. The micro-management of targets from Whitehall
has become a farce. Scandals of NHS procurement, of IT investment
vitiated by corruption, of financial blunders leading to mountainous
local debts, of corporate governance arrangements that permit conflicts
of interest to arise and continue, have provided unceasing noises off
for two decades and no doubt more. Along the line, responsibility for
the mess has become blurred in a nightmare forest of organisations that
alter shape overnight, and in a quick-change army of foresters who
regulate and inspect. And alongside it all, the democratic deficit that
is Bevan's inheritance has resulted in a sham local accountability
unable to add value because it has no real control over things on the
ground. Again, one wonders whether a service devolved to local
government to run, as Morrison wanted, could have brought about less
effective control than this?"

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr261/foot.htm




http://www.yorkshireposttoday.co.uk/...ionID=55&Artic

leID=812722


"A FORMER council official and three builders were yesterday given
suspended jail sentences at a court case which brought the final curtain
down on the Donnygate corruption scandal.
Bill Stones, a former Doncaster Council officer, was initially given a
one-year prison term by Judge Simon Jack for accepting "sweeteners" from
the builders."

To name but a few.


Hardly in the Tory Porter league, and she was only the one of them being
caught.



There were far larger scandals exposed in labour councils in the 70's. I
can't actually find any references to them tho. before Internet.


Stop making things up.


I can't because I am not.


However we were not having a willy waving contest on which particular
council is the most corrupt, merely falsifying your naive assumption
that the planning laws are not subject to being bent and broken by
liberal applications of kickbacks. Its been proved that in *at least one
case, in a court of law*, it was.


So, only one, and a small one at that. As I say "Hardly in the Tory Porter
league", and then there was Mark Thatcher who suddenly became super, super
wealthy, and Ridley, enviro minister, who had extensions built in the
Cotswolds and opposed all others, and that slag from Essex, Gorman, who
built parts of her house without planning permission, etc, etc.


Corruption does not have to follow party lines. Its been endemic in all
councils since before time began.


That is all that is needed to prove you wrong.


Feeble attempt too.


No, a totally reasonable counter to your position.

We are talking about the ability to get planning permission. Its often a
case of correct bribery. That's all. How often and how much are the
issues, not whether it happens. It does.


"Madam, will you sleep with me for a million pounds?"
"Indeed I would"
"How about 50 shillings?"
"Dost take me for a common whore sir?"
"That fact is established already, we are merely negotiating the price".

In article , The Natural
Philosopher writes

There were far larger scandals exposed in labour councils in the 70's. I
can't actually find any references to them tho. before Internet.

T. Dan Smith. Birmingham IIRC ('net connection's down at the mo.)

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article , IMM
writes

snip
There were far larger scandals exposed in labour councils in the 70's. I
can't actually find any references to them tho. before Internet.

Stop making things up.

However we were not having a willy waving contest on which particular
council is the most corrupt, merely falsifying your naive assumption
that the planning laws are not subject to being bent and broken by
liberal applications of kickbacks. Its been proved that in *at least one
case, in a court of law*, it was.

So, only one, and a small one at that. As I say "Hardly in the Tory Porter
league", and then there was Mark Thatcher who suddenly became super, super
wealthy, and Ridley, enviro minister, who had extensions built in the
Cotswolds and opposed all others, and that slag from Essex, Gorman, who
built parts of her house without planning permission, etc, etc.

Meacher (former Nu Labur Environment Minister) has 22 houses

Ruth Kelly is paid £91K and already has accrued 11K in pension rights
due to the vote by Nu Labur MPS after the last election to give
themselves a 47 % pay and pension increase. Yet she refuses to help
equitable life policy holders, even though when the storm first started
MP's were given a special deal to get their money out.

Diane Abbott sends her son to a private school.

Harriet Harman (And her Trade Union Husband ?Jack Dromy) sent their kids
to a private school and had no problem getting them into Bristol Uni.
While taking her kids back to Brisl she was stopped for speeding on the
M4 in her ministerial car - no action taken of course.
That is all that is needed to prove you wrong.

Feeble attempt too.


I wonder if Phony Liar will ever be prosecuted for the worst election
rigging of all time ?. I refer to opening the floodgates to 'asylum
seekers' on 2-may-1997, then lining the pockets of his legal cronies
with legal aid to delay the process of 'removing them', giving them and
their kids guaranteed housing, schooling, medical and dental care, then
quietly abandoning the 'attempt' to remove 50,000 of them. This means
they will get to become UK cits and have the vote. Now I wonder who they
are going to vote for ?.
Then there is the postal vote shambles.
--
Andrew

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

snip
There were far larger scandals exposed in labour councils in the 70's.
I
can't actually find any references to them tho. before Internet.

Stop making things up.

However we were not having a willy waving contest on which particular
council is the most corrupt, merely falsifying your naive assumption
that the planning laws are not subject to being bent and broken by
liberal applications of kickbacks. Its been proved that in *at least
one
case, in a court of law*, it was.

So, only one, and a small one at that. As I say "Hardly in the Tory
Porter
league", and then there was Mark Thatcher who suddenly became super,
super
wealthy, and Ridley, enviro minister, who had extensions built in the
Cotswolds and opposed all others, and that slag from Essex, Gorman, who
built parts of her house without planning permission, etc, etc.

Meacher (former Nu Labur Environment Minister) has 22 houses

And??

Ruth Kelly is paid £91K and already has accrued 11K in pension rights
due to the vote by Nu Labur MPS after the last election to give
themselves a 47 % pay and pension increase. Yet she refuses to help
equitable life policy holders, even though when the storm first started
MP's were given a special deal to get their money out.

And??

Diane Abbott sends her son to a private school.

And??

Harriet Harman (And her Trade Union Husband ?Jack Dromy) sent their kids
to a private school and had no problem getting them into Bristol Uni.

And??

While taking her kids back to Brisl she was stopped for speeding on the
M4 in her ministerial car - no action taken of course.

And??

That is all that is needed to prove you wrong.

About what? I see no corruption owning houses.

Feeble attempt too.


I wonder if Phony Liar

snip garbage taken from the right wing gutter press

How is Little Middle England today?

IMM wrote:


How is Little Middle England today?


I wouldn't know. Suggest you look out of you window.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:


How is Little Middle England today?


I wouldn't know. Suggest you look out of you window.

Are they on the march today?

IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:



How is Little Middle England today?


I wouldn't know. Suggest you look out of you window.


Are they on the march today?


Looks like they are on your computer actually.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:



How is Little Middle England today?


I wouldn't know. Suggest you look out of you window.


Are they on the march today?

Looks like they are on your computer actually.

Such wit.