I've ruled out metal frames as they're just not aesthetically
pleasing.

So, the choice is either uPVC or wood. uPVC is maintenance free but
looks a bit crap...

Which would you go for, and why?

I .think. I'll go for wood - can anyone tell me what maintenance will
be required and how often?

Thanks in advance.

Sean.

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 01:04:54 +0000, Sean Wetzel
wrote:

I've ruled out metal frames as they're just not aesthetically
pleasing.

So, the choice is either uPVC or wood. uPVC is maintenance free but
looks a bit crap...

Which would you go for, and why?

I .think. I'll go for wood - can anyone tell me what maintenance will
be required and how often?

Thanks in advance.

Sean.

Am I the only person on the planet that thinks that Aluminium frames
look really rather good?

"Sean Wetzel" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out metal frames as they're just not aesthetically
pleasing.

Agreed

uPVC is maintenance free but looks a bit crap...

Delete the word 'bit' and I'll agree again


I .think. I'll go for wood - can anyone tell me what maintenance will
be required and how often?

If you get a good hardwood frame, have it properly treated before
installation then stained or painted if needed after insulation it will need
little attention. Oak can possibly even be left 'as is' until well after
you're dead.

It is poor quality softwood frames that gave wood a bad name and led to the
uPVC explosion. Note that not all softwood frames are crap, but most seem
to be.

"Dave S" wrote in message
...

Am I the only person on the planet that thinks that Aluminium frames
look really rather good?

On ships or planes ?

It was somewhere outside Barstow when Dave S wrote:

Am I the only person on the planet that thinks that Aluminium frames
look really rather good?

No, I like them too. On anything built post WW1

uPVC is rarely maintenance free. I've seen more skanky looking plastic
windows than wooden.

I didn't see the original question, but I'm guessing the answer goes
something like:

Use the windows that are appropriate for the age and design of the property.
If it originally had metal Critall windows, then find modern replacements.
If it is a Victorian property, get proper wooden sashes. If it is a 1980s
Baratt hutch, get uPVC.

I .think. I'll go for wood - can anyone tell me what maintenance will
be required and how often?

Painting every 5 to 7 years, occasional touching up between.

uPVC seems to require wholesale replacement every 10 to 15 years or so. A
good quality hardwood wooden window, well maintained, will last for
centuries. Even a cheap softwood frame will last many decades, with the
right treatment and care, whilst higher quality softwoods can also last
centuries.

Christian.

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Even a cheap softwood frame will last many decades, with the
right treatment and care,

Make that more like one, limping on to two with patching. My experience
with two from Magnet - which were sold as pressure treated.

--
*If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Sean Wetzel" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out metal frames as they're just not aesthetically
pleasing.

So, the choice is either uPVC or wood. uPVC is maintenance free but
looks a bit crap...

Which would you go for, and why?

I .think. I'll go for wood - can anyone tell me what maintenance will
be required and how often?

Thanks in advance.

Sean.

Have you looked at powder-coated aluminium? We've got a pair of Monarch
Monaframe patio doors & they're by far the best "windows" in the house.
They've only been in for 4 years now but show absolutely no signs that
they'll suffer the staining/weathering issues of uPVC.

(Barring wood) they were the only choice for the particular location as they
have much less bulky frames than uPVC & therefore gave a decent glass/frame
ratio.

They were fitted pre-building regs part L, but I'm sure that when I did a
web search last year they were still very much available, so I presume that
they can be part L compliant.

The only downside is the cost - rather higher than cheap uPVC.


--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

In article ,
Sean Wetzel writes:
I've ruled out metal frames as they're just not aesthetically
pleasing.
snip

Perhaps the name of the new group isn't clear enough after all.

Follow-ups set.
--
John Hall "He crams with cans of poisoned meat
The subjects of the King,
And when they die by thousands G.K.Chesterton:
Why, he laughs like anything." from "Song Against Grocers"

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Sean Wetzel" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out metal frames as they're just not aesthetically
pleasing.

Agreed

uPVC is maintenance free but looks a bit crap...

Delete the word 'bit' and I'll agree again


I .think. I'll go for wood - can anyone tell me what maintenance will
be required and how often?

If you get a good hardwood frame, have it properly treated before
installation then stained or painted if needed after insulation it will
need
little attention. Oak can possibly even be left 'as is' until well
after
you're dead.

It is poor quality softwood frames that gave wood a bad name and led to
the
uPVC explosion. Note that not all softwood frames are crap, but most
seem
to be.
I made a new sash window in my house 15 years ago from bog standard
softwood
and now it hardly needs a lick of paint. The Magnet pressure treated
softwood windows put in at the same time are falling to pieces BUT sliding
sashes are protected from the weather by 6" or so of masonry whereas the
Magnet windows were flush with the wall. I think the situation is probably
more important than the type of wood. If you want a deep sill on the
inside,
I'd go for plastic or aly.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Make that more like one [decade], limping on to two with patching. My experience
with two from Magnet - which were sold as pressure treated.

Mine are over 100 years old.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Make that more like one [decade], limping on to two with patching. My
experience with two from Magnet - which were sold as pressure treated.

Mine are over 100 years old.

Bought from Magnet? ;-)

I too have timber windows over 100 years old, but they were made from
*real* wood.

--
*I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

What are we talking about here? Picture frames, spectacles, Door frames? Or
are we supposed to psychic?

"Sean Wetzel" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out metal frames as they're just not aesthetically
pleasing.

So, the choice is either uPVC or wood. uPVC is maintenance free but
looks a bit crap...

Which would you go for, and why?

I .think. I'll go for wood - can anyone tell me what maintenance will
be required and how often?

Thanks in advance.

Sean.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I too have timber windows over 100 years old, but they were made from
*real* wood.

Mine were made from cheap crap. But they were well painted when they
went it.

Just a small point but think 'resaleability' for the future.

Personally I prefer uPVC frames as they are virtually maintenance free -
plus I detest painting frames or anything else come to think of it.

When I was was househunting, a couple of otherwise suitable properties were
ruled out as they had wood frames on the windows.

As I was already on a budget with the house purchase I could not have
afforded to replace the windows and I had no desire to fork out for painting
them nor to do the actual work.

Most housebuyers would never consider it - however in today's busy times
people want things to be as maintenance free as possible.

sarah

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
I too have timber windows over 100 years old, but they were made from
*real* wood.

Mine were made from cheap crap.

I've not seen cheap crap timber used in the UK 100 years ago?

But they were well painted when they
went it.

My original sash windows had no paint at all on the sides of the frames -
ie the wall side.

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I've not seen cheap crap timber used in the UK 100 years ago?

Oh boy was it. They started using (importing ?) some dire pine and other
softwoods around then. Before that English hardwoods tended to dominate.
Our place has had bits added over the centuries and it is the 1890s bit that
needed the most wood replacement. There's an oak beam possibly from the
1600s further down the corridor with hardly a mark on it.

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
It is poor quality softwood frames that gave wood a bad name and led to
the uPVC explosion. Note that not all softwood frames are crap, but
most
seem to be.

I made a new sash window in my house 15 years ago from bog standard
softwood and now it hardly needs a lick of paint. The Magnet pressure
treated
softwood windows put in at the same time are falling to pieces BUT sliding
sashes are protected from the weather by 6" or so of masonry whereas the
Magnet windows were flush with the wall. I think the situation is probably
more important than the type of wood.

Hmm. I bet you actually bought good wood for the window you made yourself
whereas Magnet bulk bought crap.

Martin wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:23:54 GMT, "sarah"
wrote:


Just a small point but think 'resaleability' for the future.

Personally I prefer uPVC frames as they are virtually maintenance free -
plus I detest painting frames or anything else come to think of it.

When I was was househunting, a couple of otherwise suitable properties were
ruled out as they had wood frames on the windows.

As I was already on a budget with the house purchase I could not have
afforded to replace the windows and I had no desire to fork out for painting
them nor to do the actual work.

Most housebuyers would never consider it - however in today's busy times
people want things to be as maintenance free as possible.


Is NT as good as XP?
It would be wood for me as we have now stained not painted and a
re-stain every 2 years keeps them looking lovely.

Interesting comment on the use of 'real timber' given a recent
announcement from Jeld-Wen who are moving to laminated timber for all
there window products.

Most timber used in crappy windows and doors is cheap old fast grown pine,
which used outdoors painted or not rots in no time. Joinery made with
Douglas fir or next grade up lasts a lot longer. You get what you pay for.

ken

sarah typed:

Personally I prefer uPVC frames as they are virtually maintenance
free - plus I detest painting frames or anything else come to think
of it.


Most housebuyers would never consider it - however in today's busy
times people want things to be as maintenance free as possible.

sarah

Count me out of the "people" party then. ;-(

--
mark

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Mike" wrote:

They started using (importing ?) some dire pine and other
softwoods around then

I'm in Bristol. We were one of the main ports for that trade.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Mike" wrote:

They started using (importing ?) some dire pine and other
softwoods around then

I'm in Bristol. We were one of the main ports for that trade.

Yeah. I'm from there too. I suppose dodgy wood was somewhat more ethical
than our previous biggest cargo.

sarah typed:

Most housebuyers would never consider it - however in today's busy
times people want things to be as maintenance free as possible.

sarah

Good quality (British) oak is your only option then.

Unless you regard phoning up the window company arranging for complete
replacements every ten to fifteen years and then staying in while they
replace them as maintainence free.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Mike" wrote:

Good quality (British) oak is your only option then.

Why would British oak be any better than French ?

I have aluminium frames wih teak surrounds. Not bad for proportions, and
they're
still in decent nick after 25 years, apart from a couple of broken handles
and a broken
seal or two on the double glazing. Still, the design is soulless, big
unopenable picture
windows, with a couple of openable tiny counterlights above.

In future, I shall look to replace them with wood. My remaining wooden
windows are OK,
though lack of paint meant I had to replace a section of one with new wood.
This modern
softwood quality troubles me though, I've looked at the softwood frames in
Wickes but I'm
not convinced of the quality. They also only seem to do windows that sit
proud of he frame,
not flush as my remainingwood windows do. Also I'm not 100% happy about the
proportions.

Would like to get bespoke wooden frames made in a decent quality softwood
( or hardwood if possible ) but don't fancy shelling out huge amounts. Has
anyone gone via the bespoke windows route?

Andy.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
news
It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Mike" wrote:

Good quality (British) oak is your only option then.

Why would British oak be any better than French ?


It isn't - provided it's from Northern France. But if it's imported it's
harder to prove where it's really from.

Andy Dingley wrote:

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Mike" wrote:

Good quality (British) oak is your only option then.

Why would British oak be any better than French ?

Colder weather, cooler summers, slower growth, more growth rings per
unit diameter, greater strength, doesn't stink of garlic ;-)


--

RichardS wrote:
"Sean Wetzel" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out metal frames as they're just not aesthetically
pleasing.

So, the choice is either uPVC or wood. uPVC is maintenance free but
looks a bit crap...

Which would you go for, and why?

I .think. I'll go for wood - can anyone tell me what maintenance
will
be required and how often?

Thanks in advance.

Sean.

Have you looked at powder-coated aluminium? We've got a pair of
Monarch
Monaframe patio doors & they're by far the best "windows" in the
house.
They've only been in for 4 years now but show absolutely no signs
that
they'll suffer the staining/weathering issues of uPVC.

What staining/weathering issues? Cif cream cleaner keeps them looking
good as new.

MBQ

In article .com,
wrote:
Have you looked at powder-coated aluminium? We've got a pair of
Monarch Monaframe patio doors & they're by far the best "windows" in
the house. They've only been in for 4 years now but show absolutely no
signs that they'll suffer the staining/weathering issues of uPVC.

What staining/weathering issues? Cif cream cleaner keeps them looking
good as new.

I always wash the one ground floor UPV window and patio doors I have with
plenty of warm water and a drop of washing up liquid. And do the frames at
the same time. So far, they still look like new. Paintwork done at the
same time they were fitted looks like it'll need doing again this year.

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I haven't so far had a pvc frame warp on me, I wish the same were true
for wood, even when new!

Regards
Capitol

Colder weather, cooler summers, slower growth, more growth rings per
unit diameter, greater strength, doesn't stink of garlic ;-)

A bit counter-intuitive but oak is stronger when it is grown fast -
with fewer rings.

But this is not an issue with oak for windows. British, French (they
do say the best is kept for wine barrels), Polish, Hungarian, it will
all do fine. But don't use American - it is not as durable.

I use English oak from a local sawmill for the windows that I make.

Oh, and you don't need to paint them. They won't rot. They will last
a couple of centuries longer than UPVC.

"JD" wrote in message
...
Martin wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:23:54 GMT, "sarah"
wrote:


Just a small point but think 'resaleability' for the future.

Personally I prefer uPVC frames as they are virtually maintenance free -
plus I detest painting frames or anything else come to think of it.

When I was was househunting, a couple of otherwise suitable properties
were
ruled out as they had wood frames on the windows.

As I was already on a budget with the house purchase I could not have
afforded to replace the windows and I had no desire to fork out for
painting
them nor to do the actual work.

Most housebuyers would never consider it - however in today's busy times
people want things to be as maintenance free as possible.


Is NT as good as XP?
It would be wood for me as we have now stained not painted and a
re-stain every 2 years keeps them looking lovely.

Interesting comment on the use of 'real timber' given a recent
announcement from Jeld-Wen who are moving to laminated timber for all
there window products.

I'll give you an interesting comment about Jeld -Wen

I have been in the window industry all my life some 32 years as a working
man.
mostly as a window fitter and recenly as a service engineer.

Jeld-Wen are responsible for manufacturing the most atrocious frames i have
ever encountered .

IMO
PVC is fine if it is
A Manufactured properly
B Fitted properly

If you want a really good looking PVC frame get a look at a Decurnick
window.

I have no direct link with that company and my opinion is unbiased from the
point of view that i service all makes and models from Ali swing doors in
schools shops and restaurants etc
to more upvc Window ,Patio and Resi Door Frames than i care to mention.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when
(Biff) wrote:

A bit counter-intuitive but oak is stronger when it is grown fast -
with fewer rings.

Not so much for oak - it's mainly ash where this makes a big
dfifference. It's not so much the number of rings that's at issue,
it's the ratio between early and late wood.

If oak is too fast grown you can start to see problems with shake
(delamination between rings). No one really understands why oaks
shake, but it appears to be related to soil conditions. Those light
soils that are most encouraging to fast growth may also give less
stability and may (as I said, no-one really knows) give rise to wind
damage in young trees.

--
Smert' spamionam

UPVC is the Turkey Twizler of buildings.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when
(Biff) wrote:

UPVC is the Turkey Twizler of buildings.

LOL !

hello

I have tried to find the Decurnick
window on google but no luck......................can you point me to a web
site??

thanks

Barry

In message on Sat, 16 Apr 2005,
bs wrote
I have tried to find the Decurnick
window on google but no luck......................
Check spelling and you'll find Deceuninck
can you point me to a web site??
Http://www.deceuninck.com

--
Colin Brook - Winchester (UK)

Fax:+44(0)8701641293 Mobile:07976258703

Thanks Colin

but that link doesn't work.......the elusive strangely spelled windows
not sure what the name is now

Barry

--


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"Colin Brook" wrote in message
...
In message on Sat, 16 Apr 2005, bs
wrote
I have tried to find the Decurnick
window on google but no luck......................
Check spelling and you'll find Deceuninck
can you point me to a web site??
Http://www.deceuninck.com

--
Colin Brook - Winchester (UK)

Fax:+44(0)8701641293 Mobile:07976258703

In message on Sat, 16 Apr 2005,
bs wrote
but that link doesn't work..
Does here - I've just checked it again!

http://www.deceuninck.com
what browser are you using?

Regards,
--
Colin Brook - Winchester (UK)

Fax:+44(0)8701641293 Mobile:07976258703