Varnish or Stain
 

My sister has started to paint the outside doors and windows of her
newish (4 years old) house. The windows and doors are thick
(scandanavian style) pine made by Rationel. The location is southern
Ireland (Cork), south facing. In the summer it gets very hot sun.

The timber looks like it was originally stained. She has started
work, and has one coat of varnish on some of the windows and 2 doors.
She spoke to me after getting this far and I have put some doubt in
her mind as to whether varnish is the best coating to use. My
recommendation is that she should use a stain of some type (Sadolin is
the brand name that I normally use). The problem is that she already
has one coat of varnish on the timber.

Should she continue down the varnish route and put on another coat or
two, or strart from scratch, strip off the varnish and go for a
woodstain.

Any recommendations from the experts ???


Thanks

Frank

Varnish or Stain
 

On 26 May 2004 02:28:31 -0700, (Frank Davis)
wrote:

My sister has started to paint the outside doors and windows of her
newish (4 years old) house. The windows and doors are thick
(scandanavian style) pine made by Rationel. The location is southern
Ireland (Cork), south facing. In the summer it gets very hot sun.

The timber looks like it was originally stained. She has started
work, and has one coat of varnish on some of the windows and 2 doors.
She spoke to me after getting this far and I have put some doubt in
her mind as to whether varnish is the best coating to use. My
recommendation is that she should use a stain of some type (Sadolin is
the brand name that I normally use). The problem is that she already
has one coat of varnish on the timber.

Should she continue down the varnish route and put on another coat or
two, or strart from scratch, strip off the varnish and go for a
woodstain.

Any recommendations from the experts ???


Thanks

Frank

Sadolin or Sikkens for the basic products, or Jotun (a Norwegian
product) which IME is better and also available in a wide range of
colours.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Varnish or Stain
 

In article ,
says...
My sister has started to paint the outside doors and windows of her
newish (4 years old) house. The windows and doors are thick
(scandanavian style) pine made by Rationel. The location is southern
Ireland (Cork), south facing. In the summer it gets very hot sun.

The timber looks like it was originally stained. She has started
work, and has one coat of varnish on some of the windows and 2 doors.
She spoke to me after getting this far and I have put some doubt in
her mind as to whether varnish is the best coating to use. My
recommendation is that she should use a stain of some type (Sadolin is
the brand name that I normally use). The problem is that she already
has one coat of varnish on the timber.

Should she continue down the varnish route and put on another coat or
two, or strart from scratch, strip off the varnish and go for a
woodstain.

Any recommendations from the experts ???


Thanks

Frank

Sadolin will be very easy to apply as its quite thin. Over the years it
won't build up to a dark colour as a heavy, coloured 'varnish' might,
especially if she uses the one for light woods which will actually give
a slight colour.

I think you may be a little astray in your definitions. Varnish is a bit
of a catch-all expression. I would consider Sadolins a type of varnish.
A pure stain will provide very little if any protection. You choice will
lie between things like 'It does what it says on the tin ', not,
Sadolins and its ilk, or some type of polyurethane product which will be
very hardwearing, but more work to apply.

I would avoid the yacht varnishes. IME they go patchy after a while and
require a complete strip back to achieve a satisfactory finish

Don't dream of water based finishes. They are an abomination to get
right in their varnish incarnation.

If the house is south facing, as ours is, she's going to have to re-do
it every two years. We have mahogany windows and door frames and I am
now seriously considering painting them all white, SWMBO permitting of
course, as it deteriorates so rapidly

Paul Mc Cann

Varnish or Stain
 

Paul Mc Cann wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...
My sister has started to paint the outside doors and windows of her
newish (4 years old) house. The windows and doors are thick
(scandanavian style) pine made by Rationel. The location is southern
Ireland (Cork), south facing. In the summer it gets very hot sun.

The timber looks like it was originally stained. She has started
work, and has one coat of varnish on some of the windows and 2 doors.
She spoke to me after getting this far and I have put some doubt in
her mind as to whether varnish is the best coating to use. My
recommendation is that she should use a stain of some type (Sadolin is
the brand name that I normally use). The problem is that she already
has one coat of varnish on the timber.

Should she continue down the varnish route and put on another coat or
two,

as long as shes using a suitable good quality clear varnish, yes. Dont
touch tinted varishes though, theyre dreadful.


or strart from scratch, strip off the varnish and go for a
woodstain.

woodstain dosent protect wood, it just stains it. Not much use.
Staining pine gives quick colour but it also kills the detail in the
wood. Much better to let it mellow by itself.


Don't dream of water based finishes. They are an abomination to get
right in their varnish incarnation.

I'm surprised, I've never had any problems with them.


If the house is south facing, as ours is, she's going to have to re-do
it every two years. We have mahogany windows and door frames and I am
now seriously considering painting them all white, SWMBO permitting of
course, as it deteriorates so rapidly

Why not oil them? Very quick and easy.


Regards, NT

Varnish or Stain
 

In article ,
says...
Paul Mc Cann wrote in message ...
In article ,
snip

If the house is south facing, as ours is, she's going to have to re-do
it every two years. We have mahogany windows and door frames and I am
now seriously considering painting them all white, SWMBO permitting of
course, as it deteriorates so rapidly

Why not oil them? Very quick and easy.


Regards, NT

Because it would offer precious little, if any, protection


Paul Mc Cann

Varnish or Stain
 

In article ,
says...
Paul Mc Cann wrote in message ...
In article ,
snip


Don't dream of water based finishes. They are an abomination to get
right in their varnish incarnation.

I'm surprised, I've never had any problems with them.

snip

The flow characteristics of the many I have tried preclude a streak free
finish when brushing or using foam applicators, especially if any sort
of colour is included. I've tried all the tricks I know to successfully
use these products all to no avail. I do use a water based sanding
sealer for its convenience especially if doing small pieces but thats
the extent of it.

Paul Mc Cann

Varnish or Stain
 

Paul Mc Cann wrote:
NT wrote [ oiling timber for protection v. the elements ]

it would offer precious little, if any, protection

Really? I've found that oil on hardwood gives good protection,
and is very easy to re-do when needed.


J.B.

Varnish or Stain
 

Jerry Built ] wrote in message news:GFHTIOEAPRD3IHH3FSJ3NQIOKOF3LVKDHZKPHTJZ@zip lip.com...
Paul Mc Cann wrote:
NT wrote [ oiling timber for protection v. the elements ]

it would offer precious little, if any, protection

Really? I've found that oil on hardwood gives good protection,
and is very easy to re-do when needed.


I used oil (as a 50/50 mix with paraffin) on a softwood frame to hold
permanently wet earth. Something like 5 or 6 years later - with no
reoiling - and it looked as good as when it went in. I was very
surprised, only intended it to be temporary.


Regards, NT

Varnish or Stain
 

"N. Thornton" wrote:
Jerry Built wrote...
Paul Mc Cann wrote:
NT wrote [ oiling timber for protection v. the elements ]

it would offer precious little, if any, protection

Really? I've found that oil on hardwood gives good protection,
and is very easy to re-do when needed.

I used oil (as a 50/50 mix with paraffin) on a softwood frame to
hold permanently wet earth. Something like 5 or 6 years later -
with no reoiling - and it looked as good as when it went in. I
was very surprised, only intended it to be temporary.

I take it you're talking about mineral oil for engines - I would
not use that on windows! I was referring to linseed oil, boiled
(hardens more quickly) or raw (penetrates further, takes longer
to go off), which forms a protective coating on the surface of
the timber as well. Re-treatment is just a matter of rubbing up
with a cloth and some turps/subst., and re-coating - or, indeed,
just re-coating!


J.B.

Varnish or Stain
 

Jerry Built ] wrote in message news:AHHVFXIKB1IEMHOCNSL5F3CMKIAHPZCLADKOOOBQ@zip lip.com...
"N. Thornton" wrote:

I used oil (as a 50/50 mix with paraffin) on a softwood frame to
hold permanently wet earth. Something like 5 or 6 years later -
with no reoiling - and it looked as good as when it went in. I
was very surprised, only intended it to be temporary.

I take it you're talking about mineral oil for engines

yup

- I would not use that on windows!

I guess something that sets would stay cleaner. Point was just that
oil is a good preserver of wood.


Regards, NT

Varnish or Stain
 

In article ,
says...
Jerry Built ] wrote in message news:GFHTIOEAPRD3IHH3FSJ3NQIOKOF3LVKDHZKPHTJZ@zip lip.com...
Paul Mc Cann wrote:
NT wrote [ oiling timber for protection v. the elements ]

it would offer precious little, if any, protection

Really? I've found that oil on hardwood gives good protection,
and is very easy to re-do when needed.


I used oil (as a 50/50 mix with paraffin) on a softwood frame to hold
permanently wet earth. Something like 5 or 6 years later - with no
reoiling - and it looked as good as when it went in. I was very
surprised, only intended it to be temporary.


Regards, NT

Protection against what?

Not the sun certainly and I can't believe it would give any sort of
protection against the elements.

If left on the surface in an outside environment it will just provide a
medium for dust etc to adhere to. It would have very little resistance
to rain frost or snow.

As an interior finish it is really only useful as a cosmetic finish as
abrasion resistance is very low and friction would remove it rapidly.
Yes I know those with butcher block worktops in their kitchens claim it
only requires a quick wipe down 'occasionly' to keep it looking good to
which I would reply thats all a formica finish requires, and with a damp
cloth not an oil soaked rag. I can think of no commercial kitchens who
would be so daft as to elect to use such a worktop. Just fashion really,
like the Belfast sinks, the majority of which aren't even 'Belfast'
sinks

If oil was that wonderful there would be precious little paint and
varnish sold.

Besides I don't think SWMBO would be too chuffed at having the woodwork
finished in a 50/50 mixture of oil/paraffin. (Surely this must be
bordering on a flammable mix ?)

Paul Mc Cann

Varnish or Stain
 

Paul Mc Cann wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...

I used oil (as a 50/50 mix with paraffin) on a softwood frame to hold
permanently wet earth. Something like 5 or 6 years later - with no
reoiling - and it looked as good as when it went in. I was very
surprised, only intended it to be temporary.


Protection against what?

Not the sun certainly and I can't believe it would give any sort of
protection against the elements.

If left on the surface in an outside environment it will just provide a
medium for dust etc to adhere to. It would have very little resistance
to rain frost or snow.

As an interior finish it is really only useful as a cosmetic finish as
abrasion resistance is very low and friction would remove it rapidly.
Yes I know those with butcher block worktops in their kitchens claim it
only requires a quick wipe down 'occasionly' to keep it looking good to
which I would reply thats all a formica finish requires, and with a damp
cloth not an oil soaked rag. I can think of no commercial kitchens who
would be so daft as to elect to use such a worktop. Just fashion really,
like the Belfast sinks, the majority of which aren't even 'Belfast'
sinks

If oil was that wonderful there would be precious little paint and
varnish sold.

Besides I don't think SWMBO would be too chuffed at having the woodwork
finished in a 50/50 mixture of oil/paraffin. (Surely this must be
bordering on a flammable mix ?)

Paul Mc Cann


Sounds like youve no experience with it and are just imagining how it
might work. Reality is its been used for a long time and is very
effective.

You dont want it on windows because it does get dusty and makes
painting afterwards impossible. And you dont want it indoors because
of the paraffin as well.

Bordering on flammable? Youre kidding? Anyone knows what paraffin is.
If you dont know how it works, the paraffin thins the oil to enable it
to penetrate well, and evaporates leaving the oil behind.


Regards, NT

Varnish or Stain
 

In article ,
says...
Paul Mc Cann wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...

I used oil (as a 50/50 mix with paraffin) on a softwood frame to hold
permanently wet earth. Something like 5 or 6 years later - with no
reoiling - and it looked as good as when it went in. I was very
surprised, only intended it to be temporary.


Protection against what?

Not the sun certainly and I can't believe it would give any sort of
protection against the elements.

If left on the surface in an outside environment it will just provide a
medium for dust etc to adhere to. It would have very little resistance
to rain frost or snow.

As an interior finish it is really only useful as a cosmetic finish as
abrasion resistance is very low and friction would remove it rapidly.
Yes I know those with butcher block worktops in their kitchens claim it
only requires a quick wipe down 'occasionly' to keep it looking good to
which I would reply thats all a formica finish requires, and with a damp
cloth not an oil soaked rag. I can think of no commercial kitchens who
would be so daft as to elect to use such a worktop. Just fashion really,
like the Belfast sinks, the majority of which aren't even 'Belfast'
sinks

If oil was that wonderful there would be precious little paint and
varnish sold.

Besides I don't think SWMBO would be too chuffed at having the woodwork
finished in a 50/50 mixture of oil/paraffin. (Surely this must be
bordering on a flammable mix ?)

Paul Mc Cann


Sounds like youve no experience with it and are just imagining how it
might work. Reality is its been used for a long time and is very
effective.

I've no experience of playing football at Premiership level but that
doesn't preclude me from being able to make intelligent comment upon it.

For my sins I worked for a period of time in the paint manufacturing
industry and in my experience the mixture you describe was not much used
and not widely appreciated. I met all the shortcuts in my day. Pure
Xylene in place of thinners (no duty if bought right ). Petrol as
thinners as it can be cheaper than industrial thinners ! etc., etc.

I understand a little about the mechanics/chemistry of protective
coatings and a mix of oil/paraffin is nothing wonderful.

You dont want it on windows because it does get dusty and makes
painting afterwards impossible.

which is what I said above
And you dont want it indoors because of the paraffin as well.

Well given that this thread was about treating doors and windows what
are you on about ?

Bordering on flammable? Youre kidding? Anyone knows what paraffin is.
If you dont know how it works, the paraffin thins the oil to enable it
to penetrate well, and evaporates leaving the oil behind.

I was referring to the mixture.

Paul mc Cann

Varnish or Stain
 

Paul Mc Cann wrote:
If oil was that wonderful there would be precious little paint and
varnish sold.

What have you to say about the merits of treating hardwood
with linseed oil as a measure or protection/preservation?


J.B.