Dear Group,

maybe I'm looking for excuses to not get on with my renovation ......

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/newlayout2.jpg (600kb)

I have lived for 20 years in what was, and probably still is, about the
cheapest house in Bristol.

A 2 up 2 down Victorian terraced with very few "original features" (not my
style anyway), not even central heating ...

I plan to sand the original floorboards downstairs for a fairly earthy and
practical effect.

Upstairs the inspiration is Japanese, and for it to work the floor has to be
spot on - either solid wood or good carpet.
The front bedroom floor is reasonably good, the back bedroom has taken all
the foot traffic over the years and may need major structural work to level
it and cure the bounce - though there's no evidence of problems downstairs.

(period property fans may wish to stop reading at this point ;-)

My instinct is to replace the upstairs boards with 22mm chipboard and use
them to fill in the gaps downstairs - and sell the rest to the salvage place
down the road ...

Since it's upstairs and I'm replacing the staircase, presumably the floor
level is not critical at this point so long as it is completely even.

I've been getting grief about my plans and I wonder if I could achieve the
same results with less effort. Would it be sufficient to lay a new floor on
top of the old ? Perhaps a layer of hardboard would be sufficient for the
front bedroom ? How about a chipboard foor on top of planks ?

thanking you in anticipation ...

Jeremy

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
...
Dear Group,

maybe I'm looking for excuses to not get on with my renovation ......

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/newlayout2.jpg (600kb)

I have lived for 20 years in what was, and probably still is, about the
cheapest house in Bristol.

A 2 up 2 down Victorian terraced with very few "original features" (not my
style anyway), not even central heating ...

I plan to sand the original floorboards downstairs for a fairly earthy and
practical effect.

Upstairs the inspiration is Japanese, and for it to work the floor has to
be
spot on - either solid wood or good carpet.
The front bedroom floor is reasonably good, the back bedroom has taken all
the foot traffic over the years and may need major structural work to
level
it and cure the bounce - though there's no evidence of problems
downstairs.

(period property fans may wish to stop reading at this point ;-)

My instinct is to replace the upstairs boards with 22mm chipboard and use
them to fill in the gaps downstairs - and sell the rest to the salvage
place
down the road ...


If you want Japanese-ish, why not lay bamboo "laminate" floor over the
existing floorboards upstairs?

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
...
Dear Group,

maybe I'm looking for excuses to not get on with my renovation ......

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/newlayout2.jpg (600kb)


If you want Japanese-ish, why not lay bamboo "laminate" floor over the
existing floorboards upstairs?


no need to be sarcastic ;-)

brugnospamsia wrote:

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/newlayout2.jpg (600kb)

indecipherable


I have lived for 20 years in what was, and probably still is, about
the
cheapest house in Bristol.

A 2 up 2 down Victorian terraced with very few "original features"
(not my
style anyway), not even central heating ...

I plan to sand the original floorboards downstairs for a fairly
earthy and
practical effect.

can look very good. Much easier and cheaper to just wash them though. I
had thick filth coated ones come up nceily.


The front bedroom floor is reasonably good, the back bedroom has
taken all
the foot traffic over the years and may need major structural work to
level
it and cure the bounce - though there's no evidence of problems
downstairs.

not difficult to fix, usually anyway.


(period property fans may wish to stop reading at this point ;-)

My instinct is to replace the upstairs boards with 22mm chipboard and
use
them to fill in the gaps downstairs - and sell the rest to the
salvage place
down the road ...

18mm's cheaper.


Since it's upstairs and I'm replacing the staircase, presumably the
floor
level is not critical at this point so long as it is completely even.

I trust your diying your stairacse


I've been getting grief about my plans

why?


and I wonder if I could achieve the
same results with less effort. Would it be sufficient to lay a new
floor on
top of the old ? Perhaps a layer of hardboard would be sufficient for
the
front bedroom ?

yep, been done many times. It works, as long as you cover it with
carpet or something, and screw loose boards down first. If youre real
tight for cash its certainly an option. Not one I'd choose, but if you
cant afford heating, it works.

If youre strapped a scrap wood floor is an option too, loads of half
inch chip gets chucked. 2 layers of that gives you enough strength plus
gap sealing and load spreading.


How about a chipboard foor on top of planks ?
You cuold, but im not sure theres much point.


NT

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...


If you want Japanese-ish, why not lay bamboo "laminate" floor over the
existing floorboards upstairs?


no need to be sarcastic ;-)


I wasn't. I looked at these for my own house but despite assurances they
can't take damp. (Went mouldy after a week)

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...


If you want Japanese-ish, why not lay bamboo "laminate" floor over the
existing floorboards upstairs?


no need to be sarcastic ;-)


I wasn't. I looked at these for my own house but despite assurances they
can't take damp. (Went mouldy after a week)



In truth I'm not sure how close to the genuine "Tatami room" I'm aiming for
:-

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=...en&sa=N&tab=wi

I've found a western "take" on the "Shoji screen"


http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/bed.JPG

maybe I should have cut out the story and said I just want the best possible
floor for the least effort.

wrote in message
oups.com...
brugnospamsia wrote:

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/newlayout2.jpg (600kb)

indecipherable

this is the sort of quality I'm after :-

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/bed.JPG




The front bedroom floor is reasonably good, the back bedroom has
taken all
the foot traffic over the years and may need major structural work to
level
it and cure the bounce - though there's no evidence of problems
downstairs.

not difficult to fix, usually anyway.


fixable without replacing joists ?


My instinct is to replace the upstairs boards with 22mm chipboard and
use
them to fill in the gaps downstairs - and sell the rest to the
salvage place
down the road ...

18mm's cheaper.

I want a really firm floor



Since it's upstairs and I'm replacing the staircase, presumably the
floor
level is not critical at this point so long as it is completely even.

I trust your diying your stairacse

maybe .... but I have been advised that it's best to pay for fitting so I'm
covered if I miscalculate ....


I've been getting grief about my plans

why?

"you're making work for yourself .... if you ever sold the house the next
people would expect real floorboards ..... the underfelt will disguise any
floor problems ...."




top of the old ? Perhaps a layer of hardboard would be sufficient for
the
front bedroom ?

yep, been done many times. It works, as long as you cover it with
carpet or something, and screw loose boards down first. If youre real
tight for cash its certainly an option. Not one I'd choose, but if you
cant afford heating, it works.

If youre strapped a scrap wood floor is an option too, loads of half
inch chip gets chucked. 2 layers of that gives you enough strength plus
gap sealing and load spreading.


I'm not /that/ short of funds. I just want to know the best practicable way
to achieve near-perfection in a wobbly old house. Are you saying you would
rip out the floorboards ?

thanks...

Jeremy

brugnospamsia wrote:

Dear Group,

maybe I'm looking for excuses to not get on with my renovation ......

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/newlayout2.jpg (600kb)

I have lived for 20 years in what was, and probably still is, about the
cheapest house in Bristol.

A 2 up 2 down Victorian terraced with very few "original features" (not my
style anyway), not even central heating ...

I plan to sand the original floorboards downstairs for a fairly earthy and
practical effect.

Upstairs the inspiration is Japanese, and for it to work the floor has to be
spot on - either solid wood or good carpet.
The front bedroom floor is reasonably good, the back bedroom has taken all
the foot traffic over the years and may need major structural work to level
it and cure the bounce - though there's no evidence of problems downstairs.

(period property fans may wish to stop reading at this point ;-)

My instinct is to replace the upstairs boards with 22mm chipboard and use
them to fill in the gaps downstairs - and sell the rest to the salvage place
down the road ...

Since it's upstairs and I'm replacing the staircase, presumably the floor
level is not critical at this point so long as it is completely even.

Be careful that either te BCO don't see it, or the new staircase is to
current regs. Many victorian staircases are too narrow, too steep and
have insuffcient headroom to pass regs.



I've been getting grief about my plans and I wonder if I could achieve the
same results with less effort. Would it be sufficient to lay a new floor on
top of the old ? Perhaps a layer of hardboard would be sufficient for the
front bedroom ? How about a chipboard foor on top of planks ?


Unless you nedd to beef up teh joists, I would strongly be tempted to
simply use false joists and laed battens to level up what you have, and
lay chip over it.


And leave the existing boarsd there for some pine glazed ditzhead to
discover in 50 years time.

Nice period properties are one thing, Barrat superhurtch equivalent
pre-building regs monstrosities are quite another.

Some hints

Pine. The chipboard and MFI of the victorian age.

'Stripped pine' , The equivalent of taking the melamine off contiboard
to 'expose the natural wood effect'

Victoriam plumbing. Contradiction in terms. Tin bath and a kettle mate.
And a two holer out the back.

Sash window. A device to let stale cabbage and farts out once a year in
the days when mothers sewed tehmselves into their underwear for the
winter, stayed at home all day, cooking and ironing and burglars got a
crack over the head with the warming pan. No place in todays world.

Cast iron bath. The victorian equivalent to German Concrete. Used to
keep coal in mainly. Coals too good for em IMHO.

Victorian insulation. Another horse blanket on the bed.

Victorian central heating. Husband and wife, the dog and three kids all
in a four poster, held just above freezing point.

Victorian parlour. The place where you had tea with the vicar, and put
granny in when she died, otherwise unused.

Victorian staircase. A ladder with the rungs filled in a bit.

Victorian cupboard. A contradiction in terms. No victorian had enough
possessions or lived long enough to aquire any, to need a cupboard.

Gut the place if its structuraly sound, and throw the contents away, and
build a decent house inside it.






thanking you in anticipation ...

Jeremy

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
brugnospamsia wrote:



Since it's upstairs and I'm replacing the staircase, presumably the floor
level is not critical at this point so long as it is completely even.

Be careful that either te BCO don't see it, or the new staircase is to
current regs. Many victorian staircases are too narrow, too steep and have
insuffcient headroom to pass regs.


My current one is just the wrong side of borderline at 42.4 degrees, the new
one should be a bit shallower.

Any idea how much would it cost to have the "man from the ministry" come and
give the once-over to all my modifications before they get decorated over?



I've been getting grief about my plans and I wonder if I could achieve
the same results with less effort. Would it be sufficient to lay a new
floor on top of the old ? Perhaps a layer of hardboard would be
sufficient for the front bedroom ? How about a chipboard foor on top of
planks ?


Unless you need to beef up the joists, I would strongly be tempted to
simply use false joists and laed battens to level up what you have, and
lay chip over it.

I think you may well have convinced me - I don't think I have any problems
with rotten beam ends.

Only problem is that it may allow me to bodge rather than replace the lumpy
artexed l&p ceiling below.



And leave the existing boards there for some pine glazed ditzhead to
discover in 50 years time.

SNIP

LOL @ glossary of Victoriana :-)

My hovel had some spectacularly dodgy masonry in it. Luckily I had no posh
fireplaces to angst over removing. The only thing I regretted losing was the
ornamental arch in the hallway - there was more timber in the arch than the
wooden beam it "disguised" . Funny how tastes change. I will be putting a
nice concrete lintel in its place.

Jeremy

brugnospamsia wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com.

this is the sort of quality I'm after :-

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/bed.JPG

Well you wont get a flat seamles result from hardboard. It has no
stiffness so reveals all the undulations beneath.


The front bedroom floor is reasonably good, the back bedroom has
taken all
the foot traffic over the years and may need major structural work
to
level
it and cure the bounce - though there's no evidence of problems
downstairs.

not difficult to fix, usually anyway.


fixable without replacing joists ?

Yup. Levelling and debouncing are done in one move. Remove floorboards,
add furring strips to the tops of the existing joists to make a level,
and reboard. Level, and stiffer. For stiffening to work well, glue and
screw the furring every 6".

I should say check your joists are ok while youre there, just in case
you do whats described then fall through it a year later cos it was
rotten.


My instinct is to replace the upstairs boards with 22mm chipboard
and
use
them to fill in the gaps downstairs - and sell the rest to the
salvage place
down the road ...

18mm's cheaper.

I want a really firm floor

Thats down to the joists, 18mm chip is plenty firm.


Since it's upstairs and I'm replacing the staircase, presumably
the
floor
level is not critical at this point so long as it is completely
even.

I trust your diying your stairacse

maybe .... but I have been advised that it's best to pay for fitting
so I'm
covered if I miscalculate ....

you mean youre carpeting, not replacing the stairs?


If youre strapped a scrap wood floor is an option too, loads of
half
inch chip gets chucked. 2 layers of that gives you enough strength
plus
gap sealing and load spreading.


I'm not /that/ short of funds. I just want to know the best
practicable way
to achieve near-perfection in a wobbly old house.

furring strips, and reboard closing up the gaps. You'll need a few
extra strips of floorboard. Clean well and varnish. Chipboard instead
of reboarding is also an option.


Are you saying you would
rip out the floorboards ?

no, I dont think it makes any sense to remove good quality solid wood
flooring to replace it with chip or other cheapass, and pay for the
privilege.

But its what you did with the archway, so why not.


NT

My hovel had some spectacularly dodgy masonry in it. LuckilyI had no
posh
fireplaces to angst over removing. The only thing I regretted losing
was the
ornamental arch in the hallway - there was more timber in the arch
than the
wooden beam it "disguised" . Funny how tastes change. I willbe putting
a
nice concrete lintel in its place.

go on, tell us the details... dimensions etc. Sounds like you had a
standard wooden lintel.


NT

wrote in message
ps.com...
My hovel had some spectacularly dodgy masonry in it. LuckilyI had no
posh
fireplaces to angst over removing. The only thing I regretted losing
was the
ornamental arch in the hallway - there was more timber in the arch
than the
wooden beam it "disguised" . Funny how tastes change. I willbe putting
a
nice concrete lintel in its place.

go on, tell us the details... dimensions etc. Sounds like you had a
standard wooden lintel.


It's a 2 and a bit by 4 laid "landscape".
Give 'em their due it stayed up 140 years, but it will be supporting my new
landing so it has to come out.
Luckily the lintels are stuck into generous holes in the single brick party
wall.

Losing the arch, makes it easier to get sheet materials upstairs among other
things ...

The real horror in that room is a "feature fireplace" made of red and green
reconstituted stone, presumably 1950s or 60s which I confess IS more hideous
than most Victorian ones.

Jeremy

brugnospamsia wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

My hovel had some spectacularly dodgy masonry in it. LuckilyI had
no
posh
fireplaces to angst over removing. The only thing I regretted
losing
was the
ornamental arch in the hallway - there was more timber in the arch
than the
wooden beam it "disguised" . Funny how tastes change. I willbe
putting
a
nice concrete lintel in its place.

go on, tell us the details... dimensions etc. Sounds like you had a
standard wooden lintel.


It's a 2 and a bit by 4 laid "landscape".
Give 'em their due it stayed up 140 years, but it will be supporting
my new
landing so it has to come out.
Luckily the lintels are stuck into generous holes in the single brick
party
wall.

Losing the arch, makes it easier to get sheet materials upstairs
among other
things ...

But was there a stone or brick arch there, or was it only the 2x4
supporting the triangle above it? If the latter, and its only a
standard doors width, a triangle of 4" brickwork on a 2x4 should be
well within its capabilities.

brugnospamsia wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

My hovel had some spectacularly dodgy masonry in it. LuckilyI had
no
posh
fireplaces to angst over removing. The only thing I regretted
losing
was the
ornamental arch in the hallway - there was more timber in the arch
than the
wooden beam it "disguised" . Funny how tastes change. I willbe
putting
a
nice concrete lintel in its place.

go on, tell us the details... dimensions etc. Sounds like you had a
standard wooden lintel.


It's a 2 and a bit by 4 laid "landscape".
Give 'em their due it stayed up 140 years, but it will be supporting
my new
landing so it has to come out.
Luckily the lintels are stuck into generous holes in the single brick
party
wall.

Losing the arch, makes it easier to get sheet materials upstairs
among other
things ...

But was there a stone or brick arch there, or was it only the 2x4
supporting the triangle above it? If the latter, and its only a
standard doors width, a triangle of 4" brickwork on a 2x4 should be
well within its capabilities.

brugnospamsia wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

My hovel had some spectacularly dodgy masonry in it. LuckilyI had
no
posh
fireplaces to angst over removing. The only thing I regretted
losing
was the
ornamental arch in the hallway - there was more timber in the arch
than the
wooden beam it "disguised" . Funny how tastes change. I willbe
putting
a
nice concrete lintel in its place.

go on, tell us the details... dimensions etc. Sounds like you had a
standard wooden lintel.


It's a 2 and a bit by 4 laid "landscape".
Give 'em their due it stayed up 140 years, but it will be supporting
my new
landing so it has to come out.
Luckily the lintels are stuck into generous holes in the single brick
party
wall.

Losing the arch, makes it easier to get sheet materials upstairs
among other
things ...

But was there a stone or brick arch there, or was it only the 2x4
supporting the triangle above it? If the latter, and its only a
standard doors width, a triangle of 4" brickwork on a 2x4 should be
well within its capabilities.

wrote in message
ups.com...
brugnospamsia wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

My hovel had some spectacularly dodgy masonry in it. LuckilyI had
no
posh
fireplaces to angst over removing. The only thing I regretted
losing
was the
ornamental arch in the hallway - there was more timber in the arch
than the
wooden beam it "disguised" . Funny how tastes change. I willbe
putting
a
nice concrete lintel in its place.

go on, tell us the details... dimensions etc. Sounds like you had a
standard wooden lintel.


It's a 2 and a bit by 4 laid "landscape".
Give 'em their due it stayed up 140 years, but it will be supporting
my new
landing so it has to come out.
Luckily the lintels are stuck into generous holes in the single brick
party
wall.

Losing the arch, makes it easier to get sheet materials upstairs
among other
things ...

But was there a stone or brick arch there, or was it only the 2x4
supporting the triangle above it? If the latter, and its only a
standard doors width, a triangle of 4" brickwork on a 2x4 should be
well within its capabilities.

to be honest it wasn't supporting very much and the joists were joined
between that and the lintel over the back room doorway ...
and it was only a cupboard ... It's just the irony that so many people want
exposed beams but the Victorians felt they had to disguise it.
And the arch itself was hardly attached to the wall at all so it didn't
contribute structurally ....
If I had the choice I would probably live in a house made from steel and
concrete .....

brugnospamsia wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...

brugnospamsia wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...

My hovel had some spectacularly dodgy masonry in it. LuckilyI had

no

posh

fireplaces to angst over removing. The only thing I regretted

losing

was the

ornamental arch in the hallway - there was more timber in the arch

than the

wooden beam it "disguised" . Funny how tastes change. I willbe

putting

a

nice concrete lintel in its place.

go on, tell us the details... dimensions etc. Sounds like you had a
standard wooden lintel.


It's a 2 and a bit by 4 laid "landscape".
Give 'em their due it stayed up 140 years, but it will be supporting

my new

landing so it has to come out.
Luckily the lintels are stuck into generous holes in the single brick

party

wall.

Losing the arch, makes it easier to get sheet materials upstairs

among other

things ...

But was there a stone or brick arch there, or was it only the 2x4
supporting the triangle above it? If the latter, and its only a
standard doors width, a triangle of 4" brickwork on a 2x4 should be
well within its capabilities.


to be honest it wasn't supporting very much and the joists were joined
between that and the lintel over the back room doorway ...
and it was only a cupboard ... It's just the irony that so many people want
exposed beams but the Victorians felt they had to disguise it.
And the arch itself was hardly attached to the wall at all so it didn't
contribute structurally ....
If I had the choice I would probably live in a house made from steel and
concrete .....



Mm. I wouldn't.

I think straw bales, or 10 ft thick masonry would be my first
choices...depending on climate..

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
brugnospamsia wrote:


to be honest it wasn't supporting very much and the joists were joined
between that and the lintel over the back room doorway ...
and it was only a cupboard ... It's just the irony that so many people
want
exposed beams but the Victorians felt they had to disguise it.
And the arch itself was hardly attached to the wall at all so it didn't
contribute structurally ....
If I had the choice I would probably live in a house made from steel and
concrete .....



Mm. I wouldn't.

I think straw bales, or 10 ft thick masonry would be my first
choices...depending on climate..



I like the idea of straw bales, but I live in "the inner city" and have
visions of a big bad wolf huffing and puffing ;-)