Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the house. Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't disturb
the appearance of the room.

--


Regards

John

"John" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the
house. Less hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework
wouldn't disturb the appearance of the room.


Just heard of a London flat with that arrangement .. reminds me of an "eco
house" of the 70s that had an Fiat 124 engined micro-CHP unit in an
outhouse.

I'm in a similar dilemna - kitchen and bathroom both about 8' x 6' and the
bathroom ceiling slopes to under head hight on one side ...

"John" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the house.
Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't disturb
the appearance of the room.

Such boiler are available. Come in highly insulated outside cabinets that
mount on the wall.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in
the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the house.
Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't
disturb
the appearance of the room.

Such boiler are available. Come in highly insulated outside cabinets that
mount on the wall.

Special commercial units.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in
the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the house.
Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't
disturb
the appearance of the room.

Such boiler are available. Come in highly insulated outside cabinets
that
mount on the wall.

Special commercial units.

Nope. Grant do options on most of their oil boilers like this.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler
in
the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could
be
fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the
house.
Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't
disturb
the appearance of the room.

Such boiler are available. Come in highly insulated outside cabinets
that
mount on the wall.

Special commercial units.

Nope. Grant do options on most of their oil boilers like this.


Indeed, there was one outside a cottage we rented recently. It was floor
mounted (and oil fired) and was about 1m high and 600mm square. Can't
remember the make but, as combi's go, not bad at all (apart from [duck] slow
bath fill which was quite acceptable as it was the sort of building that
didn't actually have space for tanks). A little noisy on a quiet evening
too. I can't say the cabinet appeared to be "highly insulated" as it didn't!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler
in
the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could
be
fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the
house.
Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't
disturb
the appearance of the room.

Such boiler are available. Come in highly insulated outside cabinets
that
mount on the wall.

Special commercial units.

Nope. Grant do options on most of their oil boilers like this.

There are special commercial gas unit that can go outside. Many domestic
oil boilers, as you have stated, can go outside.

"John" wrote in message
...

Why do builders assume that people
want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do the
washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to the
bathroom to wash them their too". They have the washing machines upstairs

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the house.
Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't disturb
the appearance of the room.

You can always build a small highly insulated brick cupboard at the rear of
the house. Pretty common in London.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do
the washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to
the bathroom to wash them their too". They have the washing machines
upstairs

Ah. So that's where your tiny baths come from - to leave room for the
washing machine, etc.

--
*Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off NOW.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:
Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do
the washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to
the bathroom to wash them their too". They have the washing machines
upstairs

Ah.

snip drivel

Not worth reading

"IMM" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people
want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do the
washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to the
bathroom to wash them their too".

Oh come on - you've been watching too many Monty Pythons. No Scandanavian
actually talks like that. They all have better English than us English.

In article , IMM
writes

"John" wrote in message
...

Why do builders assume that people
want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do the
washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to the
bathroom to wash them their too". They have the washing machines upstairs

No they don't, they have them in their utility rooms, just like us.
--
..

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:53:01 +0000, "."
wrote:

Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do the
washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to the
bathroom to wash them their too". They have the washing machines upstairs

No they don't, they have them in their utility rooms, just like us.

Only occasionally in Finland do they have utility rooms. Most of the
time the washing machine is in the bathroom. It's true that they think
the concept of getting your laundry anywhere near the kitchen is
disgusting.

More often than not there is no upstairs in a scandinavian house.
"Upstairs" is something designed for countries that have too many
people for the amount of space available! :-)

M.

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:05:06 +0000, Markus Splenius
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:53:01 +0000, "."
wrote:

Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do the
washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to the
bathroom to wash them their too". They have the washing machines upstairs

No they don't, they have them in their utility rooms, just like us.

Only occasionally in Finland do they have utility rooms. Most of the
time the washing machine is in the bathroom. It's true that they think
the concept of getting your laundry anywhere near the kitchen is
disgusting.

Finland isn't in Scandinavia, and most Finns are mildly insulted by
the suggestion. The language is totally different to the other Nordic
languages, although there is a small Swedish speaking population
(there is a dual language policy), and generally Finns learn Swedish
and English in school.

The area where the utility room might be is often used as a sauna.

I've seen utility rooms with washing machines or in bathrooms in most
countries outside the UK.

The bigger disgust factor is the notion of having carpet in the
bathroom.


More often than not there is no upstairs in a scandinavian house.
"Upstairs" is something designed for countries that have too many
people for the amount of space available! :-)

That's a generalisation which very much depends on location. Away
from the cities it tends to happen, but if you take areas like greater
Stockholm, there are lots of houses with two storeys plus cellar
(washer goes there) and town houses where there is a separate communal
building with space to put the washer for each house. It's the same
issue that land is expensive, although problems are solved in
different ways.







--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The bigger disgust factor is the notion of having carpet in the
bathroom.

But that isn't limited to non-British people. Most people here are disgusted
by bathroom carpets.

However, the European idea of having laundry stuff in the bathroom doesn't
appeal. I hate having ugly laundry appliances in there, coupled with the
excessive noise close to bedrooms when running them at night. The bathroom
is a place of relaxation, not industrial looking appliances. A separate
utility room is best, followed by the kitchen, IMO.

Christian.

Andy Hall wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:05:06 +0000, Markus Splenius
.... snipped
The bigger disgust factor is the notion of having carpet in the
bathroom.
.... snipped

So do they use tiles instead? What about cold feet?

--
Dave S
(The return email address is a dummy)

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:07:13 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:


Finland isn't in Scandinavia, and most Finns are mildly insulted by
the suggestion. The language is totally different to the other Nordic
languages, although there is a small Swedish speaking population
(there is a dual language policy), and generally Finns learn Swedish
and English in school.

Yes - you are right, however the term Scandinavia is used loosely by
English speaking people to include Finland too. Even some Finns use it
and are surprised when you tell them that Finland doesn't technically
count as Scandinavia. I have always preferred the term "Fennoscandia"
but noone then understands what I am talking about.

There is a legal requirement for Swedish to be taught in Finnish
schools (a much resented requirement) and nearly all schools teach
English too.

"Markus Splenius" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:53:01 +0000, "."
wrote:

Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do
the
washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to the
bathroom to wash them their too". They have the washing machines
upstairs

No they don't, they have them in their utility rooms, just like us.

Only occasionally in Finland do they have utility rooms. Most of the
time the washing machine is in the bathroom. It's true that they think
the concept of getting your laundry anywhere near the kitchen is
disgusting.

More often than not there is no upstairs in a scandinavian house.
"Upstairs" is something designed for countries that have too many
people for the amount of space available! :-)

Or in countries where the land is in the hands of a few people.

"." wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

"John" wrote in message
...

Why do builders assume that people
want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do
the
washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to the
bathroom to wash them their too". They have the washing machines
upstairs

No they don't, they have them in their utility rooms, just like us.

But not in the kitchen. It was common to have the washing machine in a
cupboard in the bathroom.

"IMM" wrote
| You can always build a small highly insulated brick cupboard at the
| rear of the house. Pretty common in London.

Where it is called the au pair's room.

Owain

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:38:04 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"IMM" wrote
| You can always build a small highly insulated brick cupboard at the
| rear of the house. Pretty common in London.


Now if I could keep an au pair in a small insulated brick cupboard, I
would get one tomorrow!! :-)

M.

"Markus Splenius" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:38:04 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"IMM" wrote
| You can always build a small highly insulated brick cupboard at the
| rear of the house. Pretty common in London.


Now if I could keep an au pair in a small insulated brick cupboard, I
would get one tomorrow!! :-)

Are you sure it would be the au pair in the cupboard :-)

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"IMM" wrote
| You can always build a small highly insulated brick cupboard at the
| rear of the house. Pretty common in London.

Where it is called the au pair's room.


Or, in a 1930's style house it's called the
(former) "outside toilet".
My boiler sits within the 'outside toilet',
It is built out from the rear of the house,
Kitchen on other side of wall. Heat
off the casing nicely heats the tools that
I store there too.

--

Brian

IMM wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...


Why do builders assume that people
want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?


Because they have no brains. The Scandinavians are shocked that we do the
washing in the kitchen. They say "do you also take the dishes up to the
bathroom to wash them their too". They have the washing machines upstairs


It's unusual to see a washing machine in an Australian kitchen too,
though sometimes they are in a utility room nearby. But it's often the
case that there's a combined bathroom/utility room somewhere containing
bog/shower/bath/sink/washing machine/utility sink/tumble dryer.

And their utility sinks have a large hole in the top of the metal to

a) accept the hose from the washing machine
b) act as an overflow

as it feeds back to the waste trap.

all to do with cost,sevices kept to minium as they will be in the kitchen
anyway.houses are not yet built with the owner in mind but the developers
pocket

"John" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the
house.

A colleague of mine at work has recently bought a house in Ireland on a
newly built estate, not yet fully populated. All the houses there have their
boilers in a metal cabinet on the outside of the house.
What a good idea we agreed.





A couple of weeks ago someone nicked 22 boilers from the estate.

Toby

"John" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the
house. Less hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework
wouldn't disturb the appearance of the room.

When going round looking at new houses couple of years ago saw one or two
new builds where the boiler was located on the wall in the dining room
adjecent to the kitche, which I thought was particularly naff as it made
quite a racket and looked really odd a big cupboard thing hanging on the
wall. Obviously placed there as the kitchens were so bloomin small that
loosing a cupboard for a boiler would have meant a loss of 25% (or even 33%)
of the cupboards in the kitchen.

In article , Ian Middleton
writes
"John" wrote in message
...
Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the
house. Less hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework
wouldn't disturb the appearance of the room.

When going round looking at new houses couple of years ago saw one or two
new builds where the boiler was located on the wall in the dining room
adjecent to the kitche, which I thought was particularly naff as it made
quite a racket and looked really odd a big cupboard thing hanging on the
wall. Obviously placed there as the kitchens were so bloomin small that
loosing a cupboard for a boiler would have meant a loss of 25% (or even 33%)
of the cupboards in the kitchen.

There's a couple of new houses going up next to me and the boilers are
being put in a small loft area above the utility rooms, its quite neat
how they have created this area, fully boarded, insulated and pull down
ladder all installed


--
..

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:17:08 GMT, "John" wrote:

Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the house. Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't disturb
the appearance of the room.

Our boiler (and washing machine/dryer) are going in the garage.

Mark

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:10:51 +0000, Mark
wrote:


Our boiler (and washing machine/dryer) are going in the garage.

Mark

Hmm, I wonder how I would do that with my house since my garage is 1/3
of the way down the garden. There are already overhead cables from the
house to the garage to feed the lights and the "strimmer socket".
Could I have overhead pipes too to feed my first floor radiators and
bathroom?! :-))))

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:12:49 +0000, Markus Splenius
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:10:51 +0000, Mark
wrote:


Our boiler (and washing machine/dryer) are going in the garage.

Mark

Hmm, I wonder how I would do that with my house since my garage is 1/3
of the way down the garden. There are already overhead cables from the
house to the garage to feed the lights and the "strimmer socket".
Could I have overhead pipes too to feed my first floor radiators and
bathroom?! :-))))

Erich Honnecker did that in the former DDR.

In East Berlin they had a ridiculous system of blue and red pipes
snaking around the streets on gantries and hooked up to central heat
stations. One small problem. It never worked because the pipes
weren't insulated properly and all the heat was lost over quite short
distances.

There's no reason in principle not to have a boiler remote from the
place being heated as long as you do insulate the pipes. I've done
this to provide heat to my workshop quite successfully using an
underground duct and well insulated pipes running through it with heat
provided via a heat exchanger from the main house system.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:12:49 +0000, Markus Splenius
wrote:


On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:10:51 +0000, Mark
wrote:


Our boiler (and washing machine/dryer) are going in the garage.

Mark

Hmm, I wonder how I would do that with my house since my garage is 1/3
of the way down the garden. There are already overhead cables from the
house to the garage to feed the lights and the "strimmer socket".
Could I have overhead pipes too to feed my first floor radiators and
bathroom?! :-))))


Erich Honnecker did that in the former DDR.

In East Berlin they had a ridiculous system of blue and red pipes
snaking around the streets on gantries and hooked up to central heat
stations. One small problem. It never worked because the pipes
weren't insulated properly and all the heat was lost over quite short
distances.

The pipes are still there...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:17:08 GMT, "John" wrote:

Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the house.
Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't disturb
the appearance of the room.

Our boiler (and washing machine/dryer) are going in the garage.

Mark

Agree this is best place for the boiler. But do use 28mm or even larger
pipe and insulate it to death.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 23:45:05 -0000, "Mike" wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:17:08 GMT, "John" wrote:

Why do builders assume that people want the central heating boiler in the
kitchen?

I would welcome the idea of an ugly but reliable boiler that could be
fitted
in a cupboard (like a big meter cupboard) on the outside of the house.
Less
hassle when replacement is needed as changes to pipework wouldn't disturb
the appearance of the room.

Our boiler (and washing machine/dryer) are going in the garage.

Mark

Agree this is best place for the boiler. But do use 28mm or even larger
pipe and insulate it to death.

28mm pipe! I think that might be over the top in my case since the
garage is attached to the house :-)

I agree about the insulation though.

Mark

"Mark" wrote in message
...

Our boiler (and washing machine/dryer) are going in the garage.

Mark

Agree this is best place for the boiler. But do use 28mm or even larger
pipe and insulate it to death.

28mm pipe! I think that might be over the top in my case since the
garage is attached to the house :-)

I agree about the insulation though.

Unfortunately I didn't think 28mm pipe was needed either as the calculations
on the Copper Development Association website showed 22mm was okay, albeit
marginally. Unfortunately once installed it was quite obviously not okay
and had to be replaced with 28mm. As you have short runs you may find 28mm
helps the pump and system run quieter so may be worth the investment anyway.