On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:54:46 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:10:29 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Although just to confuse, the Americans call a spindle moulder a
shaper.....

I guess a spindle moulder with a 50mm spindle
would be a "Freedom Moulder"

ROTFL.... :-)





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Dingley wrote in message ...
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:10:29 +0000, Andy Hall
Although just to confuse, the Americans call a spindle moulder a
shaper.....

I guess a spindle moulder with a 50mm spindle
would be a "Freedom Moulder"

I'll be back a bit later to tell you all in a bit more detail what we
got in the end, apparently what the Americans might call best Norm
Abraham accent "a stacked dado head cutter", but in the meantime two
people ROTFL here too!

Holly

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:52:59 -0000, "Holly, in France"
wrote:


Andy Dingley wrote in message ...
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:10:29 +0000, Andy Hall
Although just to confuse, the Americans call a spindle moulder a
shaper.....

I guess a spindle moulder with a 50mm spindle
would be a "Freedom Moulder"

I'll be back a bit later to tell you all in a bit more detail what we
got in the end, apparently what the Americans might call best Norm
Abraham accent "a stacked dado head cutter", but in the meantime two
people ROTFL here too!

Holly


Not surprisingly, use of these is discouraged in Europe as well, for
much the same reason of having a heavy lump of metal that you can't
stop quickly, plus it being not easy to put safety devices around
them.

Table saws sold in Europe usually have short arbours to prevent you
putting a stacked dado set on.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:08:00 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Not surprisingly, use of these is discouraged in Europe as well, for
much the same reason of having a heavy lump of metal that you can't
stop quickly, plus it being not easy to put safety devices around
them.

Use of them is constrained in Europe, but for the supplemental reasons
you mention, not because dado heads are themselves a bad idea. You
might note that it's hard to find a saw that can accept a dado head,
but you can buy the heads themselves easily enough.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:29:20 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:08:00 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Not surprisingly, use of these is discouraged in Europe as well, for
much the same reason of having a heavy lump of metal that you can't
stop quickly, plus it being not easy to put safety devices around
them.

Use of them is constrained in Europe, but for the supplemental reasons
you mention, not because dado heads are themselves a bad idea. You
might note that it's hard to find a saw that can accept a dado head,
but you can buy the heads themselves easily enough.


Sure.

I have a portable DeWalt contractor type saw which I bought in the
U.S. and imported myself. This has a long 5/8" arbour and will take
stacked dado cutters quite happily. It actually stops withing 10
seconds, even with all blades and chippers mounted.

It's legal for me to import and use for personal use, but not to
import and sell or use commercially, as I understand it.

For my Felder combination machine there is a dado option for the saw
arbour but instead of using U.S.-style stacked sets, it uses tooling
which is rather like spindle moulder tooling consisting of two halves
between which spacers can be installed. There are disposable main
and scoring cutters with four cutting edges each giving very clean
cuts and the same tooling can be installed on the spindle moulder
instead. Although the tooling is steel of about 230mm dia., the
electronic braking spins it down very quickly.

Like all of these things, it gets treated with the greatest respect,
and if I can use the power feeder, I do.





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Nicholas wrote in message

Just had a look at your website. I think that block is 50mm
high not 50mm bore. It has a 30mm bore. So it's a modern
standard block.

Yes it was, but that was just the best picture, the 50mm bore ones were
mentioned as being available aswell, as Andy said.

You need to find out the thickness of the spindle that the
block is to sit on. My machine has a 1 1/4" bore so I buy
blocks for that size spindle.

Get a vernier and pop it on the spindle.

Had checked that before we started.

Once you have a reading you can then start buying blocks / cutters

which is the stage we were at when I asked if anyone knew a good place
to buy them from :-)

Holly

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:11:52 -0000, "Holly, in France"
wrote:




Andy Hall wrote in message
Andy Dingley wrote:



Use of them is constrained in Europe, but for the supplemental
reasons
you mention, not because dado heads are themselves a bad idea. You
might note that it's hard to find a saw that can accept a dado head,
but you can buy the heads themselves easily enough.


Sure.

I have a portable DeWalt contractor type saw which I bought in the
U.S. and imported myself. This has a long 5/8" arbour and will take
stacked dado cutters quite happily. It actually stops withing 10
seconds, even with all blades and chippers mounted.

My husband was wondering about using the stacked cutters as you suggest
too, for tenons etc, but the arbour on his standards saws are too short.
Another thing for his tools wish-list then :-)

I'm not sure about using one of these for tenon cutting. The typical
method that I have seen for this on a saw is to have a jig which
clamps the wood vertically and runs in one of the mitre slots.

e.g. http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/rev...enoningjig.htm





It's legal for me to import and use for personal use, but not to
import and sell or use commercially, as I understand it.

For my Felder combination machine there is a dado option for the saw
arbour but instead of using U.S.-style stacked sets, it uses tooling
which is rather like spindle moulder tooling consisting of two halves
between which spacers can be installed. There are disposable main
and scoring cutters with four cutting edges each giving very clean
cuts and the same tooling can be installed on the spindle moulder
instead.


Andy, I am SO glad you described these things first! Otherwise I was
going to have to attempt it since these are what we bought. They have
two horizontal blades also for cutting smooth the 'top' and 'bottom' of
the tongue/groove as well. I really can't describe it but you will know
what I mean, perhaps that is what you mean by main and scoring cutters?

If you look at

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...=23097&recno=2

The scoring cutters are the ones fitted to the top, square in shape.
They can be removed and rotated to get a new edge. The purpose is to
get a clean edge to the cut.

The main cutters are the vertical ones on this block. Normally these
are reversible once.





Anyway, he is going to use this same set of cutters which will cut 5-9mm
by use of spacing rings to cut both tongue and grooves in three passes
instead of the two it would have taken with the tool-holder system we
saw on the web page.

Decided against those since any damage to the blade was going to involve
new blades for T&Ging. Sharpening not practical, at least not much, for
obvious reasons with T&G. We may well get one with other cutters if we
ever have to do more mouldings than are practical with the De Walt
router.

Interesting thing about these tool holder systems as on the web page.
You will be aware of the multi-function ones and the safety ones which
hold backing blades of the same moulding as the cutting blade, so that
only a mm or so of blade is exposed. Salesman says both are legal in
France, it's only Germany which has regulations against them.* We were
not convinced and still umming and ahhing about the safety ones. He said
that for every 90 or so ordinary ones he sells he would only sell 1
safety one, because of the cost (30euro./pair ish) of the 'contre-fers',
or backing blade thingies (what are they called in English?), has only
sold 3 in 16 years!

*don't worry, I didn't believe him!

I don't either. I am not sure whether it's a case of actually being
legal or illegal in France, although there may be an obervance issue.

At any rate, I always buy and use the limiters. As I say, wherever
possible I use the power feeder, or failing that various other safety
devices to keep fingers well away. With something like this, any
safety device that is practicable should be used as far as I'm
concerned.




Although the tooling is steel of about 230mm dia.,

Ours are 160mm

the electronic braking spins it down very quickly.

Ours alas will not, he will just have to be very careful. At least this
system won't 'grab' the timber so it will be better that the standard
American cutters from that point of view.


Thanks very much for all your input into this Andy, you have been very
helpful, as have others.

Holly


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote in message
Andy Dingley wrote:



Use of them is constrained in Europe, but for the supplemental
reasons
you mention, not because dado heads are themselves a bad idea. You
might note that it's hard to find a saw that can accept a dado head,
but you can buy the heads themselves easily enough.


Sure.

I have a portable DeWalt contractor type saw which I bought in the
U.S. and imported myself. This has a long 5/8" arbour and will take
stacked dado cutters quite happily. It actually stops withing 10
seconds, even with all blades and chippers mounted.

My husband was wondering about using the stacked cutters as you suggest
too, for tenons etc, but the arbour on his standards saws are too short.
Another thing for his tools wish-list then :-)


It's legal for me to import and use for personal use, but not to
import and sell or use commercially, as I understand it.

For my Felder combination machine there is a dado option for the saw
arbour but instead of using U.S.-style stacked sets, it uses tooling
which is rather like spindle moulder tooling consisting of two halves
between which spacers can be installed. There are disposable main
and scoring cutters with four cutting edges each giving very clean
cuts and the same tooling can be installed on the spindle moulder
instead.


Andy, I am SO glad you described these things first! Otherwise I was
going to have to attempt it since these are what we bought. They have
two horizontal blades also for cutting smooth the 'top' and 'bottom' of
the tongue/groove as well. I really can't describe it but you will know
what I mean, perhaps that is what you mean by main and scoring cutters?
Anyway, he is going to use this same set of cutters which will cut 5-9mm
by use of spacing rings to cut both tongue and grooves in three passes
instead of the two it would have taken with the tool-holder system we
saw on the web page.

Decided against those since any damage to the blade was going to involve
new blades for T&Ging. Sharpening not practical, at least not much, for
obvious reasons with T&G. We may well get one with other cutters if we
ever have to do more mouldings than are practical with the De Walt
router.

Interesting thing about these tool holder systems as on the web page.
You will be aware of the multi-function ones and the safety ones which
hold backing blades of the same moulding as the cutting blade, so that
only a mm or so of blade is exposed. Salesman says both are legal in
France, it's only Germany which has regulations against them.* We were
not convinced and still umming and ahhing about the safety ones. He said
that for every 90 or so ordinary ones he sells he would only sell 1
safety one, because of the cost (30euro./pair ish) of the 'contre-fers',
or backing blade thingies (what are they called in English?), has only
sold 3 in 16 years!

*don't worry, I didn't believe him!


Although the tooling is steel of about 230mm dia.,

Ours are 160mm

the electronic braking spins it down very quickly.

Ours alas will not, he will just have to be very careful. At least this
system won't 'grab' the timber so it will be better that the standard
American cutters from that point of view.


Thanks very much for all your input into this Andy, you have been very
helpful, as have others.

Holly

Andy Hall wrote in message

"Holly, in France wrote:




Andy, I am SO glad you described these things first! Otherwise I
was
going to have to attempt it since these are what we bought. They have
two horizontal blades also for cutting smooth the 'top' and 'bottom'
of
the tongue/groove as well. I really can't describe it but you will
know
what I mean, perhaps that is what you mean by main and scoring
cutters?

If you look at

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...=23097&recno=2

The scoring cutters are the ones fitted to the top, square in shape.
They can be removed and rotated to get a new edge. The purpose is to
get a clean edge to the cut.

The main cutters are the vertical ones on this block. Normally these
are reversible once.

It has taken me ages to get around to this, but in case you are
interested I have put a picture of the cutters we bought he

http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr//cutting_heads.htm

It's not very clear but I think you can see what is what.

There is also a picture of a DIY boat, the kids have been watching too
much Scrapheap Challenge :-)


Holly, in France.
Holiday home in the Dordogne,
website: http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/