Hi
I live in Torrevieja near Alicante in Spain although i am from Leeds in the
UK.

Our mains supply in our apartment is limited to 3.3 kw, this is very common
here. Pretty obviously the supply frequently trips out when cook especially
when in summer we have the air con on too. Its possible to upgrade the
incoming supply to say 5.5kw or 8.8kw and pay an extra standing charge to
Iberdrola. I am trying to get an electrician to do the upgrade but they have
to Spanish in order to provide the correct paperwork for the legal upgrade.

Naturally I dont want to get ripped off. Many English electricians will do
it illegally. The incoming mains is cartridge fused at the meter at 35 amps
and the incoming in the consumer unit passes thru a 15amp 2 pole MCB then
thu a 25amp breaker on the outgoing side (I think this is an RCD it is 2
pole with a test button). In turn this feeds two, 2 pole MCB (15amp for 8
sockets & 1 air con) and (10amp for 5 sockets, 7 lights & 1 air con). All
kitchen power is on the 15 amp circuit. As they are radial circuits I dont
know much about them I was OK with ring circuits in the UK

I have taken a digital photograph of the wringing in the consumer unit. I
would be happy to email it to anyone that might be able to help. In
particular, I dont understand why the incoming first passes thru a MCB and
then a RCD. You really need to see the picture. I dont think that this
News/g allows attachments but I will try.

I would be obliged if anyone could advise me on the work that is needed to
upgrade to say about 8.8kw which would be my max short period demand. Any
comments about the consumer unit wiring would be helpful.

If this is all boring or off topic please accept my apologies and just
ignore all this but its really difficult to get objective advice here in
Spain.

Thanks a lot

Nigel



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"Lago Jardin" wrote in message
.. .
Hi
I live in Torrevieja near Alicante in Spain although i am from Leeds in
the
UK.

Our mains supply in our apartment is limited to 3.3 kw, this is very
common
here. Pretty obviously the supply frequently trips out when cook
especially
when in summer we have the air con on too. Its possible to upgrade the
incoming supply to say 5.5kw or 8.8kw and pay an extra standing charge to
Iberdrola. I am trying to get an electrician to do the upgrade but they
have
to Spanish in order to provide the correct paperwork for the legal
upgrade.

Are you sure this upgrade is just for a fuse change as you suggest and not a
change in wiring as well ?


Naturally I dont want to get ripped off. Many English electricians will do
it illegally. The incoming mains is cartridge fused at the meter at 35
amps
and the incoming in the consumer unit passes thru a 15amp 2 pole MCB

I assume it is this one that trips ?

then
thu a 25amp breaker on the outgoing side (I think this is an RCD it is 2
pole with a test button). In turn this feeds two, 2 pole MCB (15amp for 8
sockets & 1 air con) and (10amp for 5 sockets, 7 lights & 1 air con). All
kitchen power is on the 15 amp circuit. As they are radial circuits I
dont
know much about them I was OK with ring circuits in the UK

On Mon, 03 May 2004 19:05:00 GMT, in uk.d-i-y "Lago Jardin"
strung together this:

The incoming mains is cartridge fused at the meter at 35 amps
and the incoming in the consumer unit passes thru a 15amp 2 pole MCB then
thu a 25amp breaker on the outgoing side (I think this is an RCD it is 2
pole with a test button).

The MCB will be for the overload protection and the RCD will be for
earth fault protection. The 25A rating on the RCD is a maximum and not
an actual current limited by the device, the MCB does the limiting.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

Hi

Thanks for the replies.

It is either the 15 amp MCB on the incoming or the 15 amp MCB protecting the
sockets that trips. Obviously, I am just exceeding the maximum supply when
using more than a couple of kitchen appliances (eg kettle, microwave etc).
This is why I need to get it upgraded. 3.3 kw is pretty small really.

Thanks to Lurch for his reply. I understand now why they are using the 15
amp MCB on the incoming. and then the 25 amp RCD.

It looks like I need that MCB increasing to about 25 amp. The wiring is
suitable but I think that the two radial circuit to the sockets that have
the heaviest usage may need looking at if I went above 5.5 kw. The Spanish
use all single strand cable (no twin & earth cable). I think that at present
it is 2 x 2.5mm cable to the sockets but i am not certain as I can identify
twin & earth much easier than single cable. I am not sure how the sockets
are balanced on these circuits. I'd have to disconnect and test to find out.

Can anyone advise me on what cable size would be best for the radial sockets
circuit. I presume that the cable goes around the apartment thru the conduit
and then the sockets are "spurred" off it using connector strips. There are
access points into the conduit via flush mounted plastic covers just below
ceiling height, above all sockets.

Finally, I think that I really need to re-organise the consumer unit and may
be try to get the incoming on one side and the outgoing MCBs on the other.
At present they are all bunched together in the middle. Does that sound
right? Where would I place the RCD?

I am not about to do anything until I know exactly what I am doing, for
certain. If anyone has time to look at the digital pictures that I have
taken then please ask and I will email them to you. I am sure that "one
look" and it would be obvious what I should do to anyone with suitable
experience.

The Spanish criticise UK ring main installations as unsafe but they are a
lot easier to deal with and u don't get the trip outs that u do here because
of the much higher incoming rating.


Thanks again for all the help

Nigel




"G&M" wrote in message
...

"Lago Jardin" wrote in message
.. .
Hi
I live in Torrevieja near Alicante in Spain although i am from Leeds in
the
UK.

Our mains supply in our apartment is limited to 3.3 kw, this is very
common
here. Pretty obviously the supply frequently trips out when cook
especially
when in summer we have the air con on too. Its possible to upgrade the
incoming supply to say 5.5kw or 8.8kw and pay an extra standing charge
to
Iberdrola. I am trying to get an electrician to do the upgrade but they
have
to Spanish in order to provide the correct paperwork for the legal
upgrade.

Are you sure this upgrade is just for a fuse change as you suggest and not
a
change in wiring as well ?


Naturally I dont want to get ripped off. Many English electricians will
do
it illegally. The incoming mains is cartridge fused at the meter at 35
amps
and the incoming in the consumer unit passes thru a 15amp 2 pole MCB

I assume it is this one that trips ?



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On Tue, 04 May 2004 09:43:25 GMT, in uk.d-i-y "Lago Jardin"
strung together this:

It looks like I need that MCB increasing to about 25 amp. The wiring is
suitable but I think that the two radial circuit to the sockets that have
the heaviest usage may need looking at if I went above 5.5 kw. The Spanish
use all single strand cable (no twin & earth cable). I think that at present
it is 2 x 2.5mm cable to the sockets but i am not certain as I can identify
twin & earth much easier than single cable. I am not sure how the sockets
are balanced on these circuits. I'd have to disconnect and test to find out.

If you wanted to squeeze the maximum out of the current wiring you
could probably upgrade to a 16A breaker! You may be able to up it to a
20A but the cable run would have to pretty short and the ambient
temperature would want to be lowish, 15C or thereabouts.

Can anyone advise me on what cable size would be best for the radial sockets
circuit.

If it were my home I would use 4mm cable for a 20A radial and 6mm
cable for a 32A radial.

I presume that the cable goes around the apartment thru the conduit
and then the sockets are "spurred" off it using connector strips. There are
access points into the conduit via flush mounted plastic covers just below
ceiling height, above all sockets.

Could be, best bet would be to open up the covers and take a peek. If
you were renewing anything I would loop the cables through each socket
rather than using connectors in the boxes.

Finally, I think that I really need to re-organise the consumer unit and may
be try to get the incoming on one side and the outgoing MCBs on the other.
At present they are all bunched together in the middle. Does that sound
right? Where would I place the RCD?

If you want to you can, but as long as it's all connected up correctly
and labelled appropriately then any order is fine.

If anyone has time to look at the digital pictures that I have
taken then please ask and I will email them to you.

Email address in header, send 'em in.

The Spanish criticise UK ring main installations as unsafe

Bloody foreigners! ;-)
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.