I've been revamping a bathroom, put 15mm piping (hot & cold) up the wall
for a bar shower. I was certain :-(( that I had placed them correctly,
but now I come to fit the shower the pipes are about 4-5mm too far
apart. Foolishly (in retrospect) I plastered over the pipes and then
tiled, thinking the more secure they were the better. I can get around
the pipes to a certain extent through the hole on the tile around each
pipe. If I carefully remove the plaster around, and as far down as I
can reach would the be enough flexibility in the pipes to close them up?
Would it be sensible to use a loop of rope and tighten it like a
tourniquet with a rod to draw them together? I'd better add that they
terminate with a right angle joint, and at the moment project from the
wall about 5cm.
TIA

Your idea sounds like a sure-fire recipe for disaster, pulled joints etc.

What type of shower are you fitting, does it not make some allowance for
mistakes such as your own. I installed an external bar type thermostat that
allowed (if I recall correctly) about 12mm adjustment.

Better than forcing the pipes, as that tension will always want to release
itself somehow (probably as a leak behind your tiles)

David

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
I've been revamping a bathroom, put 15mm piping (hot & cold) up the wall
for a bar shower. I was certain :-(( that I had placed them correctly,
but now I come to fit the shower the pipes are about 4-5mm too far apart.
Foolishly (in retrospect) I plastered over the pipes and then tiled,
thinking the more secure they were the better. I can get around the pipes
to a certain extent through the hole on the tile around each pipe. If I
carefully remove the plaster around, and as far down as I can reach would
the be enough flexibility in the pipes to close them up? Would it be
sensible to use a loop of rope and tighten it like a tourniquet with a rod
to draw them together? I'd better add that they terminate with a right
angle joint, and at the moment project from the wall about 5cm.
TIA

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
I've been revamping a bathroom, put 15mm piping (hot & cold) up the wall
for a bar shower. I was certain :-(( that I had placed them correctly,
but now I come to fit the shower the pipes are about 4-5mm too far
apart. Foolishly (in retrospect) I plastered over the pipes and then
tiled, thinking the more secure they were the better. I can get around
the pipes to a certain extent through the hole on the tile around each
pipe. If I carefully remove the plaster around, and as far down as I
can reach would the be enough flexibility in the pipes to close them up?
Would it be sensible to use a loop of rope and tighten it like a
tourniquet with a rod to draw them together? I'd better add that they
terminate with a right angle joint, and at the moment project from the
wall about 5cm.
TIA


What type shower fitting are you installing? I'd have thought 4 or 5 mm
would be within the tolerance of the fitting and the pipework.

BigWallop wrote:

"Broadback" wrote in message
...

I've been revamping a bathroom, put 15mm piping (hot & cold) up the wall
for a bar shower. I was certain :-(( that I had placed them correctly,
but now I come to fit the shower the pipes are about 4-5mm too far
apart. Foolishly (in retrospect) I plastered over the pipes and then
tiled, thinking the more secure they were the better. I can get around
the pipes to a certain extent through the hole on the tile around each
pipe. If I carefully remove the plaster around, and as far down as I
can reach would the be enough flexibility in the pipes to close them up?
Would it be sensible to use a loop of rope and tighten it like a
tourniquet with a rod to draw them together? I'd better add that they
terminate with a right angle joint, and at the moment project from the
wall about 5cm.
TIA



What type shower fitting are you installing? I'd have thought 4 or 5 mm
would be within the tolerance of the fitting and the pipework.


It is a Britan, I've actually presented the bar shower to the pipes and
it will not fit, and there is no adjustment. The shower comes with off
set connectors, but in order to fit these the pipe has to be an exact
length from the fittings to the wall, as I could not ascertain how thick
the tiles with adhesive would be I could not fit these, so bought, an
alternative fitting which allows a variation from wall to shower, but
not any variation between the pipes. It looks like I will have to take
tiles off and move one of the pipes, then replace the tiles. Dumb! :-(

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

"Broadback" wrote in message
...

I've been revamping a bathroom, put 15mm piping (hot & cold) up the wall
for a bar shower. I was certain :-(( that I had placed them correctly,
but now I come to fit the shower the pipes are about 4-5mm too far
apart. Foolishly (in retrospect) I plastered over the pipes and then
tiled, thinking the more secure they were the better. I can get around
the pipes to a certain extent through the hole on the tile around each
pipe. If I carefully remove the plaster around, and as far down as I
can reach would the be enough flexibility in the pipes to close them up?
Would it be sensible to use a loop of rope and tighten it like a
tourniquet with a rod to draw them together? I'd better add that they
terminate with a right angle joint, and at the moment project from the
wall about 5cm.
TIA



What type shower fitting are you installing? I'd have thought 4 or 5 mm
would be within the tolerance of the fitting and the pipework.


It is a Britan, I've actually presented the bar shower to the pipes and
it will not fit, and there is no adjustment. The shower comes with off
set connectors, but in order to fit these the pipe has to be an exact
length from the fittings to the wall, as I could not ascertain how thick
the tiles with adhesive would be I could not fit these, so bought, an
alternative fitting which allows a variation from wall to shower, but
not any variation between the pipes. It looks like I will have to take
tiles off and move one of the pipes, then replace the tiles. Dumb! :-(


Broadback,

As a matter of interest, I see that you have "plastered" these pipes into
the wall - was this a cement/sand render with a plaster skim coat?
If you have, did you protected the pipes (presuming that they are copper) by
using some sort of "plastic" wrapping around them or are they plastic
covered pipes?
If not, the cement will "attack" the copper (fairly long term) and cause
pin-holing of the pipes leading to leaks.

Brian G

Snip
Broadback,

As a matter of interest, I see that you have "plastered" these pipes into
the wall - was this a cement/sand render with a plaster skim coat?
If you have, did you protected the pipes (presuming that they are copper) by
using some sort of "plastic" wrapping around them or are they plastic
covered pipes?
If not, the cement will "attack" the copper (fairly long term) and cause
pin-holing of the pipes leading to leaks.

Brian G

I used finishing plaster, as there was not much infilling needed.

Broadback wrote:
I've been revamping a bathroom, put 15mm piping (hot & cold) up the wall
for a bar shower. I was certain :-(( that I had placed them correctly,
but now I come to fit the shower the pipes are about 4-5mm too far
apart. Foolishly (in retrospect) I plastered over the pipes and then
tiled, thinking the more secure they were the better. I can get around
the pipes to a certain extent through the hole on the tile around each
pipe. If I carefully remove the plaster around, and as far down as I
can reach would the be enough flexibility in the pipes to close them up?
Would it be sensible to use a loop of rope and tighten it like a
tourniquet with a rod to draw them together? I'd better add that they
terminate with a right angle joint, and at the moment project from the
wall about 5cm.
TIA


The shower I recently installed came with a couple of offset connectors.
which were roughly like this
________
\
\_________

_______
\
\__________


This allows you to set the spacing of the shower correctly as long as the
pipes in the wall are within 10-15mm of their ideal position, however it may
be too late for this type of solution as you also need to ensure that the
pipes are the roughly the correct distance from the wall as well as the
correct separation.

Having said this I have no idea where to buy these connectors, or if you can
use them, although if you need 5cm of pipe coming out the wall then you may
be able to cut this and use this type of offset connector.

I think you r approach of pulling them together sounds a bit dodgy, you are
more likely to turn the pipes rather than bring then together, which then
gives you two problems to sort.

cheers

David

David M wrote:

Broadback wrote:

I've been revamping a bathroom, put 15mm piping (hot & cold) up the
wall for a bar shower. I was certain :-(( that I had placed them
correctly, but now I come to fit the shower the pipes are about 4-5mm
too far apart. Foolishly (in retrospect) I plastered over the pipes
and then tiled, thinking the more secure they were the better. I can
get around the pipes to a certain extent through the hole on the tile
around each pipe. If I carefully remove the plaster around, and as
far down as I can reach would the be enough flexibility in the pipes
to close them up? Would it be sensible to use a loop of rope and
tighten it like a tourniquet with a rod to draw them together? I'd
better add that they terminate with a right angle joint, and at the
moment project from the wall about 5cm.
TIA



The shower I recently installed came with a couple of offset connectors.
which were roughly like this
________
\
\_________

_______
\
\__________


This allows you to set the spacing of the shower correctly as long as
the pipes in the wall are within 10-15mm of their ideal position,
however it may be too late for this type of solution as you also need to
ensure that the pipes are the roughly the correct distance from the wall
as well as the correct separation.

SNIP
cheers

David

Yes I was supplied with those, but as I said you have to know the
thickness of the wall when installing them. As I said it looks like
tiles off. :-(((

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
David M wrote:

snipped
David

Yes I was supplied with those, but as I said you have to know the
thickness of the wall when installing them. As I said it looks like
tiles off. :-(((


How much of the pipe tails sticking out the wall do you need?

BigWallop wrote:

"Broadback" wrote in message
...

David M wrote:


snipped

David

Yes I was supplied with those, but as I said you have to know the
thickness of the wall when installing them. As I said it looks like
tiles off. :-(((



How much of the pipe tails sticking out the wall do you need?


As I am not at the house at the moment I cannot be precise. However the
fitting onto the pipe that I have to install uses the standard 15mm
olive and compression joint, so I would say the length that would be
used for any compression joint.

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

"Broadback" wrote in message
...

snipped

How much of the pipe tails sticking out the wall do you need?


As I am not at the house at the moment I cannot be precise. However the
fitting onto the pipe that I have to install uses the standard 15mm
olive and compression joint, so I would say the length that would be
used for any compression joint.


And the shower fitting has "fixed" compression joints to connect to the pipe
tails? And you checked that the fittings on the shower don't have any sort
of adjustment on them?

I take it the shower fitting is some sort of thermostatic valve that fits
between these pipes, and that the valve doesn't have elbow fittings that
will allow you to pull them out, or push them in, to suit a small amount of
difference in the width of the pipe tails. So, would it be possible to
replace the fittings on the shower valve itself, instead of having to make
the changes to the pipework?

BigWallop wrote:

SNIP


And the shower fitting has "fixed" compression joints to connect to the pipe
tails? And you checked that the fittings on the shower don't have any sort
of adjustment on them?

I take it the shower fitting is some sort of thermostatic valve that fits
between these pipes, and that the valve doesn't have elbow fittings that
will allow you to pull them out, or push them in, to suit a small amount of
difference in the width of the pipe tails. So, would it be possible to
replace the fittings on the shower valve itself, instead of having to make
the changes to the pipework?


The shower bar does not have compression joint but, not sure of the
name, the same type that fit onto taps, flat with washer. Again the
fitting is at the house, but I am 99% certain that there is not
adjustment, however I will have a look after Christmas when I am next
there.

Thanks everyone for your help, and a Merry Christmas and happy New Year
to everyone.

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

SNIP


And the shower fitting has "fixed" compression joints to connect to the
pipe
tails? And you checked that the fittings on the shower don't have any
sort
of adjustment on them?

I take it the shower fitting is some sort of thermostatic valve that
fits
between these pipes, and that the valve doesn't have elbow fittings that
will allow you to pull them out, or push them in, to suit a small amount
of
difference in the width of the pipe tails. So, would it be possible to
replace the fittings on the shower valve itself, instead of having to
make
the changes to the pipework?


The shower bar does not have compression joint but, not sure of the
name, the same type that fit onto taps, flat with washer. Again the
fitting is at the house, but I am 99% certain that there is not
adjustment, however I will have a look after Christmas when I am next
there.

Thanks everyone for your help, and a Merry Christmas and happy New Year
to everyone.


Most appliance fittings, not all mind you, allow for some discrepancy in the
width or height of the final fixing position. A 5 mm difference isn't that
huge an error. Good luck with it, and don't despair.

A Very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Very Prosperous New Year to You and
Your Kin.

Broadback wrote:
David M wrote:

Broadback wrote:

I've been revamping a bathroom, put 15mm piping (hot & cold) up the
wall for a bar shower. I was certain :-(( that I had placed them
correctly, but now I come to fit the shower the pipes are about 4-5mm
too far apart. Foolishly (in retrospect) I plastered over the pipes
and then tiled, thinking the more secure they were the better. I can
get around the pipes to a certain extent through the hole on the tile
around each pipe. If I carefully remove the plaster around, and as
far down as I can reach would the be enough flexibility in the pipes
to close them up? Would it be sensible to use a loop of rope and
tighten it like a tourniquet with a rod to draw them together? I'd
better add that they terminate with a right angle joint, and at the
moment project from the wall about 5cm.
TIA




The shower I recently installed came with a couple of offset connectors.
which were roughly like this
________
\
\_________

_______
\
\__________


This allows you to set the spacing of the shower correctly as long as
the pipes in the wall are within 10-15mm of their ideal position,
however it may be too late for this type of solution as you also need
to ensure that the pipes are the roughly the correct distance from the
wall as well as the correct separation.

SNIP

cheers

David


Yes I was supplied with those, but as I said you have to know the
thickness of the wall when installing them. As I said it looks like
tiles off. :-(((

Well you were supplied with them for a reason, the reason being they allow
you to get the correct spacing between the pipes! You have two variables to
deal with to get the pipes sitting correctly. One is how far apart they are
and eth other how far they stick out from the wall.

The offset connectors allow you to take account of the separation and there
is normally 5-10mm of adjustment on the brackets/plates hiding the pipes to
take care of how far they stick out of the wall. If you are not roughly in
the right ball park for both then as you say it's time to take the tiles off
and put things right.

cheers

David

Broadback wrote:

David M wrote:

The shower I recently installed came with a couple of offset connectors.
which were roughly like this
________
\
\_________

_______
\
\__________



Yes I was supplied with those, but as I said you have to know the
thickness of the wall when installing them. As I said it looks like
tiles off. :-(((

Probably not going to help you at this stage, but I fitted a mixer like
you describe a few weeks back.

The cranked adaptors that came with mine were 1/2" male BSP on the pipe
end, and 3/4" male BSP on the mixer end. This required fitting a 1/2"
female BSP to the end of the pipe. The body of this female fitting being
burried in the wall such that the face of the screw threaded part was
flush with the surface of the tiles.

The solution I found that made it simplest, used a pair of straight
female BSP connectors fitted to short stub pipes. I drilled large holes
through the wall with a bit of clearance all round and attached these
stubs to elbows on the pipes. The space round the fitting being made
good with silicone sealant.

In your case if the pipes are burried in a wall (rather than passing
through a thin stud partiton like my one) you would probbably be better
off with a right angle female BSP fittting of the brass solder on type.
That way you would only need to take of ennough tile to expose enough
pipe to get a fitting like that in place. You may find if you do it
neatly that the cone flanges on the mixer will cover the hole anyway.



--
Cheers,

John.

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