The situation: Cold water tank is in loft of 2 storey building, hot
water cylinder downstairs. Original main bathroom was also downstairs.

I'd like to pump the supplies to the new upstairs shower and large bath
(force for the first, speed of filling for the second).

It appears much easier to separate the cold feed to the cylinder from
the rest near the cold tank and put a cold water pump in the bathroom
supply here, and to put a hot water pump in near the cylinder than it
would be to re-route either supply to pass near the other.

In each case there is space and convenient power to run a spur off.

There are lots of twin pumps around, some of which say they will pump
multiple bathrooms, not just showers. But are there any single pumps -
it seems silly (and probably bad for them) to use two with one side
completely empty.

Anyone done anything like this - any obvious solutions that I've not
thought of?
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

The message
from Nick Atty contains these words:

The situation: Cold water tank is in loft of 2 storey building, hot
water cylinder downstairs. Original main bathroom was also downstairs.

I'd like to pump the supplies to the new upstairs shower and large bath
(force for the first, speed of filling for the second).

It appears much easier to separate the cold feed to the cylinder from
the rest near the cold tank and put a cold water pump in the bathroom
supply here, and to put a hot water pump in near the cylinder than it
would be to re-route either supply to pass near the other.

In each case there is space and convenient power to run a spur off.

There are lots of twin pumps around, some of which say they will pump
multiple bathrooms, not just showers. But are there any single pumps -
it seems silly (and probably bad for them) to use two with one side
completely empty.

Anyone done anything like this - any obvious solutions that I've not
thought of?

Plumb the upstairs with mains cold water and have a venturi shower. No
electrics required, just water pressure. If the hot water supply to the
bath is in 22mm there shouldn't be a filling problem.

If you really want to use twin pumps and are worried about half being
dry just plumb each supply through both sides of the respective pumps.

--
Roger

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from Nick Atty contains these words:

The situation: Cold water tank is in loft of 2 storey building, hot
water cylinder downstairs. Original main bathroom was also downstairs.

I'd like to pump the supplies to the new upstairs shower and large bath
(force for the first, speed of filling for the second).

It appears much easier to separate the cold feed to the cylinder from
the rest near the cold tank and put a cold water pump in the bathroom
supply here, and to put a hot water pump in near the cylinder than it
would be to re-route either supply to pass near the other.

In each case there is space and convenient power to run a spur off.

There are lots of twin pumps around, some of which say they will pump
multiple bathrooms, not just showers. But are there any single pumps -
it seems silly (and probably bad for them) to use two with one side
completely empty.

Anyone done anything like this - any obvious solutions that I've not
thought of?

Plumb the upstairs with mains cold water and have a venturi shower. No
electrics required, just water pressure. If the hot water supply to the
bath is in 22mm there shouldn't be a filling problem.

If you really want to use twin pumps and are worried about half being
dry just plumb each supply through both sides of the respective pumps.

Best take the cold to the bath, basin and toilets off the tank in the loft,
not from the mains. The verturi shower has maisn cold water to it and hot
from tye cyoidner. Chech the shower makers specs for mains cold water
pressure.

But are there any single pumps - it seems silly (and probably bad
for them) to use two with one side completely empty.

Yes, there are loads of single impellor pumps, from the same people who make
twin impellor types. They're not difficult to find at all. However, if you
go this route, ensure that you don't just tee off the supply to the hot
water cylinder. This could lead to various problems, including sucking air
into the HWC down the vent. It is better to add a new tank connector to the
tank and have an independent pipe. Ensure that the cold feed comes off below
the hot one. This means that if the water runs out, the hot goes dry before
the cold, which is safer. Better a cold shower than a scalding one.

Another alternative, if you have a good high pressure and flow mains water
supply is to use the cold tank for the hot water supply only and convert the
bathroom onto mains cold water. A thermostatic and, crucially, PRESSURE
BALANCING mixer shower will work well with mains cold and pumped hot water.
It is the type of system I installed in my last house, which provided even
greater flow than my purely mains pressure heat bank in the current house
(at the expense of noise and loft space).

Christian.

The message
from "IMM" contains these words:

Best take the cold to the bath, basin and toilets off the tank in the loft,
not from the mains. The verturi shower has maisn cold water to it and hot
from tye cyoidner. Chech the shower makers specs for mains cold water
pressure.

Why use dubious quality water out of the storage tank when you can have
clean water straight from the main? And you get a better flow rate as
well.

--
Roger

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "IMM" contains these words:

Best take the cold to the bath, basin and toilets off the tank in the
loft,
not from the mains. The verturi shower has maisn cold water to it and
hot
from tye cyoidner. Chech the shower makers specs for mains cold water
pressure.

Why use dubious quality water out of the storage tank when you can have
clean water straight from the main? And you get a better flow rate as
well.

The tank is fitted properly with the correct by-law kit the water is fine,.
The water is for washing not drinking. You are using it anyway for hot
water. Using the hot and cold from the same tank gives equal pressure which
means you can use mixer taps.

If you want mains pressure all over, go combi or heat bank.

The message
from "IMM" contains these words:

Best take the cold to the bath, basin and toilets off the tank in
the loft,
not from the mains. The verturi shower has maisn cold water to it
and hot
from tye cyoidner. Chech the shower makers specs for mains cold water
pressure.

Why use dubious quality water out of the storage tank when you can have
clean water straight from the main? And you get a better flow rate as
well.

The tank is fitted properly with the correct by-law kit the water is fine,.

You know the op personally and are familiar with the state of his plumbing?

The water is for washing not drinking.

Don't you ever clean your teeth dimm?

You are using it anyway for hot
water. Using the hot and cold from the same tank gives equal pressure which
means you can use mixer taps.

Seen the subject line lately? The op was looking to pump both hot and
cold as he had doubts about flow.

If you want mains pressure all over, go combi or heat bank.

But that would give mains cold in the bathroom which you have just
denigrated and a combi would give a pitiful flow to the poor fellows
bath.

--
Roger

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:27:15 GMT, Roger
wrote:

The message
from "IMM" contains these words:

Best take the cold to the bath, basin and toilets off the tank in the loft,
not from the mains. The verturi shower has maisn cold water to it and hot
from tye cyoidner. Chech the shower makers specs for mains cold water
pressure.

Why use dubious quality water out of the storage tank when you can have
clean water straight from the main? And you get a better flow rate as
well.

Why didn't I think of that - especially when I grew up in house like
that. Replumb the cold to run off the mains, and pump the hot (through
new outlet as recommended elsethread). Much better. Thanks!

I don't really want to go dividing the plumbing up as it's all nicely
hidden behind decent tiles, so everything would be on the mains.

Why is it done this way? As I said above, my parents (1950s) and my
grandparent's (1930s) houses in Wigan didn't use the cold water tank for
anything at all except as a header for the hot water. Yet all the books
I've read show cold from the tank for the bath etc. The only benefit I
can see is that you can flush the toilet a few times if the water is off
- is that it? And is this a problem (if this is an FAQ of some sort,
feel free to send me off to it - I admit to not doing a proper search).
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "IMM" contains these words:

Best take the cold to the bath, basin and toilets off the tank in
the loft,
not from the mains. The verturi shower has maisn cold water to it
and hot
from tye cyoidner. Chech the shower makers specs for mains cold
water
pressure.

Why use dubious quality water out of the storage tank when you can
have
clean water straight from the main? And you get a better flow rate as
well.

The tank is fitted properly with the
correct by-law kit the water is fine,.

You know the op personally and are
familiar with the state of his plumbing?

The water is for washing not drinking.

Don't you ever clean your teeth dimm?

Richard Cranium, I said "The tank is fitted properly with the correct by-law
kit the water is fine"

snip drivel

The message
from "IMM" contains these words:

The tank is fitted properly with the
correct by-law kit the water is fine,.

You know the op personally and are
familiar with the state of his plumbing?

The water is for washing not drinking.

Don't you ever clean your teeth dimm?

Richard Cranium, I said "The tank is fitted properly with the correct by-law
kit the water is fine"

Dimm by name, dim by nature. You did indeed say precisely that but lack
the mental acuity to realise that such a statement is invalid if you
don't have any actual knowledge of the system in question.

--
Roger

In article ,
Nick Atty wrote:
Why is it done this way? As I said above, my parents (1950s) and my
grandparent's (1930s) houses in Wigan didn't use the cold water tank for
anything at all except as a header for the hot water. Yet all the books
I've read show cold from the tank for the bath etc. The only benefit I
can see is that you can flush the toilet a few times if the water is off
- is that it? And is this a problem (if this is an FAQ of some sort,
feel free to send me off to it - I admit to not doing a proper search).

IIRC, the regs varied in different parts of the country.

You may or may not have adequate mains flow and pressure to run the entire
cold direct. The use of more than one tap at the same time may effect the
flow. This may not matter, of course.

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Nick Atty" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:27:15 GMT, Roger
wrote:

The message
from "IMM" contains these words:

Best take the cold to the bath, basin
and toilets off the tank in the loft,
not from the mains. The verturi shower
has maisn cold water to it and hot
from the cylinder. Check the shower
makers specs for mains cold water
pressure.

Why use dubious quality water
out of the storage tank when you can have
clean water straight from the main? And
you get a better flow rate as well.

You have a tank supplying the hot water, so you may as well have it supply
the cold as well. It means:

1. Mixers can be fitted with ease
2. Water storage in case of a cut (toilets run).
3. Better when the mains supply is not that good.
4. Low pressure means cheaper low pressure taps and they are less likely
top leak than high pressure.

Why didn't I think of that - especially
when I grew up in house like
that. Replumb the cold to run off
the mains, and pump the hot (through
new outlet as recommended elsethread).
Much better. Thanks!

It is not better. See above. It is best to either be all mains pressure or
all low pressure. Mixing causes problems.

I don't really want to go dividing the
plumbing up as it's all nicely
hidden behind decent tiles, so
everything would be on the mains.

Why is it done this way? As I said
above, my parents (1950s) and my
grandparent's (1930s) houses in Wigan
didn't use the cold water tank for
anything at all except as a header for the hot
water. Yet all the books I've read show
cold from the tank for the bath etc.

Some local authorities had different regs to others. Also some would also
allow mains pressures in new properties with adequate mains pipes.

The only benefit I can see is that
you can flush the toilet a few times
if the water is off
- is that it?

A great benefit in some areas. Also you can use the tank water to drink as
long as you boil it.

And is this a problem
(if this is an FAQ of some sort,
feel free to send me off to it - I admit to
not doing a proper search).

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "IMM" contains these words:

The tank is fitted properly with the
correct by-law kit the water is fine,.

You know the op personally and are
familiar with the state of his plumbing?

The water is for washing not drinking.

Don't you ever clean your teeth dimm?

Richard Cranium, I said "The tank is fitted properly with the correct
by-law
kit the water is fine"

Dimm by name, dim by nature.

Another cad who is out to take the love of Maxies life. Dim Lin the
Oriental enchantress is Maxies bird mate. If you move in the horses' head
will be cut off ready for action.

This Roger is back out again! The laws in this country should be stricter.
How can be be let loose in such a frame of mind I don't know.

The mains flow/pressure isn't very good where I live so I rely on a
tank & a pump.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:49:05 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

You have a tank supplying the hot water, so you may as well have it supply
the cold as well. It means:

1. Mixers can be fitted with ease
2. Water storage in case of a cut (toilets run).
3. Better when the mains supply is not that good.
4. Low pressure means cheaper low pressure taps and they are less likely
top leak than high pressure.

But the tank already supplies both - the question was about pumping them
to give a useful shower pressure, and to fill the bath quicker - and the
suggestion was that I only need to pump the hot, and can use mains for
the cold.

As the layout of the plumbing means a twin impellor pump can't be used
easily, this sounded a good idea.

It is not better. See above. It is best to either be all mains pressure or
all low pressure. Mixing causes problems.

I want to be all high pressure, but not necessarily mains.

A great benefit in some areas. Also you can use the tank water to drink as
long as you boil it.

Yeah, but if I get up thirsty in the night, I don't really want to start
boiling a kettle in the bathroom (where would I plug it in?).
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

In article , "IMM"
says...
snip
You have a tank supplying the hot water, so you may as well have it supply
the cold as well. It means:

snip

A great benefit in some areas. Also you can use the tank water to drink as
long as you boil it.

The house I grew up in didn't have any direct cold water - the
kitchen had been moved to an extension and plumbed into the bathroom.
The galvanised tank in the attic was open, rusty, had a thick layer
of debris in the bottom and lead plumbing. I think maybe people
worry a bit too much about some things.

The message
from "IMM" contains these words:

This Roger is back out again! The laws in this country should be stricter.
How can be be let loose in such a frame of mind I don't know.

As I said before. Dimm by name, dim by nature. It would take no more
than a couple of minutes to establish that I have been posting on some
other ngs throughout the period I have neglected this one.

Too much traffic here to read it all and too much absolute crap from
Dimm. Absence of the latter would go a long way to solving the former. I
suppose adding Dimm to my killfile would help but that wouldn't do very
much good unless everyone else did the same and then there would be no
one left to save the innocent from Dimms peculiar ideas.

--
Roger

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 02:06:58 -0000, Rob Morley
wrote:

The house I grew up in didn't have any direct cold water - the
kitchen had been moved to an extension and plumbed into the bathroom.
The galvanised tank in the attic was open, rusty, had a thick layer
of debris in the bottom and lead plumbing. I think maybe people
worry a bit too much about some things.

As I'm the co-owner of a canal boat, I have no qualms whatever about
drinking water that's been sitting in a tank for months. It's never
done me any harm.

Mind you, I do tend to mix it (internally) with lots of beer, just for
medicinal reasons.
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:49:05 -0000, "IMM"
wrote:


| The only benefit I can see is that
| you can flush the toilet a few times
| if the water is off
| - is that it?
|
|A great benefit in some areas. Also you can use the tank water to drink as
|long as you boil it.

And this is my BIG problem with using a header tank for all
bathroom cold water.

Do you clean your teeth in the bathroom?

H.