Hi All

Im replacing my ring main and also adding a new radial lamp circuit.

Now as I understand it in an ideal world the best way to run the cable
is from socket to socket in one continuous length. So you double over
the cable, insert this loop of cable through the grommetted back-box,
from the loop strip the outer sheathing and inner insulation, slip
some earth sleeve on the earth and you are done.

What is the easiest way to strip the sheathing and insulation? I have
basic wire strippers, side cutters, stanley knife etc... It just seems
like Im either going to loose some fingers or damage the wire when
it's doubled over as you can't use the strippers in the usual way?

Cheers

"Eric Cartman" wrote in message
om...
Hi All

Im replacing my ring main and also adding a new radial lamp circuit.

Now as I understand it in an ideal world the best way to run the cable
is from socket to socket in one continuous length. So you double over
the cable, insert this loop of cable through the grommetted back-box,
from the loop strip the outer sheathing and inner insulation, slip
some earth sleeve on the earth and you are done.

What is the easiest way to strip the sheathing and insulation? I have
basic wire strippers, side cutters, stanley knife etc... It just seems
like Im either going to loose some fingers or damage the wire when
it's doubled over as you can't use the strippers in the usual way?

Cheers

IME it is rare to find anyone fitting up as you describe. It is a nice idea
however. If I was going to do it, I would stick a stanley in the outer
covering and make a cut about 4 inches long on one side, the wires can then
be bent and will protrude out like a hernia (eeugh) the outer sheathing can
then be easily cut away with a pair of side cutters. The earth is easy but
remember it needs a sleeve, where you want the bare live and neutral you can
either slice with a knife along the cable or my favourite would be to warm
it up with a fag lighter and pull it off with asbestos finger tips or glove.

mrcheerful

I sometimes doe this with live and neutral, more as a conceit than because
it's necessary (as mrcheerful says the earth needs a sleeve so you will need
to cut that). I simply shave away the outer sheath and then the insulation
carefully with a stanley knife. Obviously you must get the length of cable
exactly right and bare the conductors in exactly the right place.

(as mrcheerful says the earth needs a sleeve so you will need to cut
that).

You can get the sleeving to go over both earth conductors if you squash the
bend over end with pliers.

Christian.

"Eric Cartman" wrote in message
om...
Hi All

Im replacing my ring main and also adding a new radial lamp circuit.

Now as I understand it in an ideal world the best way to run the cable
is from socket to socket in one continuous length. So you double over
the cable, insert this loop of cable through the grommetted back-box,
from the loop strip the outer sheathing and inner insulation, slip
some earth sleeve on the earth and you are done.

What is the easiest way to strip the sheathing and insulation? I have
basic wire strippers, side cutters, stanley knife etc... It just seems
like Im either going to loose some fingers or damage the wire when
it's doubled over as you can't use the strippers in the usual way?

Cheers


Excuse me people, but why not cut the cable and fit both ends to the socket
properly. Doubling the cable over and the trying to push it through the
grommet in the back box alone is going to be a hell of a job. Bring the
cable to where the socket is to be positioned. Cut the cable enough to take
into the back and connect to the socket. Wrap both earth connecting cores
together over their full length and slip the sleeving over them. Connect
earth to back box along with the earth fly lead that reaches to the socket
plate.

It isn't difficult really. But the mess you lot are making of it, you'll be
there till Christmas doing the one socket. :-)) I do the whole fitting
with a pair of pliers and a screw driver.

In article ,
"BigWallop" says...
snip
Excuse me people, but why not cut the cable and fit both ends to the socket
properly. Doubling the cable over and the trying to push it through the
grommet in the back box alone is going to be a hell of a job.

Why - it's still just two 2 1/2 T&E?

Bring the cable to where the socket is to be positioned. Cut the cable enough to take
into the back and connect to the socket. Wrap both earth connecting cores
together over their full length and slip the sleeving over them. Connect
earth to back box along with the earth fly lead that reaches to the socket
plate.

Which means that if any of the screws come loose it could break the ring
and you'd never realise it. If you don't cut the cable you can't easily
break the ring.

It isn't difficult really. But the mess you lot are making of it, you'll be
there till Christmas doing the one socket. :-)) I do the whole fitting
with a pair of pliers and a screw driver.

It's really not difficult to do it without cutting the cable - someone
already described how to split the insulation lengthwise with a Stanley
knife.

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
"BigWallop" says...
snip
Excuse me people, but why not cut the cable and fit both ends to the
socket
properly. Doubling the cable over and the trying to push it through the
grommet in the back box alone is going to be a hell of a job.

Why - it's still just two 2 1/2 T&E?

But you've broken the conductor cores because you've bent it passed its
recommended bending ratio, so the ends are ****ed now and need cut off
anyways, now that its doubled over enough to fit through the ****ing hole in
the back box.


Bring the cable to where the socket is to be positioned. Cut the cable
enough to take
into the back and connect to the socket. Wrap both earth connecting
cores
together over their full length and slip the sleeving over them.
Connect
earth to back box along with the earth fly lead that reaches to the
socket
plate.

Which means that if any of the screws come loose it could break the ring
and you'd never realise it. If you don't cut the cable you can't easily
break the ring.

But the two ends should be wrapped together for mechanical strength. And
it also means you haven't tightened the terminals properly in the first
place.


It isn't difficult really. But the mess you lot are making of it,
you'll be
there till Christmas doing the one socket. :-)) I do the whole fitting
with a pair of pliers and a screw driver.

It's really not difficult to do it without cutting the cable - someone
already described how to split the insulation lengthwise with a Stanley
knife.


You've broken the copper where it's bent though. This causes heating
through higher resistance in that part of the copper. Not a good idea.

Cables have a bend ratio for the diameter of the conductors inside them.
You can hammer them over and expect them to work properly.

Do a web search on "cable bend ratio" to see what I'm talking about.

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 12:40:32 +0000, BigWallop wrote:


You've broken the copper where it's bent though. This causes heating
through higher resistance in that part of the copper. Not a good idea.

Cables have a bend ratio for the diameter of the conductors inside them.
You can hammer them over and expect them to work properly.

Do a web search on "cable bend ratio" to see what I'm talking about.

Or "cable minimum bend radius" is another term

Applies to fibre optics too. Back in the 80's when fibre optics were a new
thing to many sites, the uni I was at had a load of FO installed. For some
interesting reason, the cable pulling contractors tied a tight knot in the
end of each cable (to stop the fibres falling out?).

Bloke in charge of the job had a fit. IIRC the contractors had to redo
some runs as there wasn't enough left after chopping off the damaged
portion.

Timbo

In article ,
"BigWallop" says...

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
"BigWallop" says...
snip
Excuse me people, but why not cut the cable and fit both ends to the
socket
properly. Doubling the cable over and the trying to push it through the
grommet in the back box alone is going to be a hell of a job.

Why - it's still just two 2 1/2 T&E?

But you've broken the conductor cores because you've bent it passed its
recommended bending ratio, so the ends are ****ed now and need cut off
anyways, now that its doubled over enough to fit through the ****ing hole in
the back box.

Degraded the conductor - you're unlikely to have broken it, and if you
have you're no worse off than if you'd cut it in the first place.


Bring the cable to where the socket is to be positioned. Cut the cable
enough to take
into the back and connect to the socket. Wrap both earth connecting
cores
together over their full length and slip the sleeving over them.
Connect
earth to back box along with the earth fly lead that reaches to the
socket
plate.

Which means that if any of the screws come loose it could break the ring
and you'd never realise it. If you don't cut the cable you can't easily
break the ring.

But the two ends should be wrapped together for mechanical strength. And
it also means you haven't tightened the terminals properly in the first
place.

It could be that they've come loose while you were wrestling the fitting
onto the back box, or that the face plate has been removed and refitted
at a later date (for decoration or whatever) and it's worked loose then.


It isn't difficult really. But the mess you lot are making of it,
you'll be
there till Christmas doing the one socket. :-)) I do the whole fitting
with a pair of pliers and a screw driver.

It's really not difficult to do it without cutting the cable - someone
already described how to split the insulation lengthwise with a Stanley
knife.


You've broken the copper where it's bent though. This causes heating
through higher resistance in that part of the copper. Not a good idea.

It's still going to be a better contact than if you'd cut it.

Cables have a bend ratio for the diameter of the conductors inside them.
You can hammer them over and expect them to work properly.

Do a web search on "cable bend ratio" to see what I'm talking about.

I know what you're talking about - the no-cut approach provides
mechanical and electrical integrity in addition to twisting and
clamping. But it's not that big a deal.

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:55:48 -0000, Rob Morley
wrote:

In article ,
"BigWallop" says...

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
"BigWallop" says...
snip
Excuse me people, but why not cut the cable and fit both ends to the
socket
properly. Doubling the cable over and the trying to push it through the
grommet in the back box alone is going to be a hell of a job.

Why - it's still just two 2 1/2 T&E?

But you've broken the conductor cores because you've bent it passed its
recommended bending ratio, so the ends are ****ed now and need cut off
anyways, now that its doubled over enough to fit through the ****ing hole in
the back box.

Degraded the conductor - you're unlikely to have broken it, and if you
have you're no worse off than if you'd cut it in the first place.


Bring the cable to where the socket is to be positioned. Cut the cable
enough to take
into the back and connect to the socket. Wrap both earth connecting
cores
together over their full length and slip the sleeving over them.
Connect
earth to back box along with the earth fly lead that reaches to the
socket
plate.

Which means that if any of the screws come loose it could break the ring
and you'd never realise it. If you don't cut the cable you can't easily
break the ring.

But the two ends should be wrapped together for mechanical strength. And
it also means you haven't tightened the terminals properly in the first
place.

It could be that they've come loose while you were wrestling the fitting
onto the back box, or that the face plate has been removed and refitted
at a later date (for decoration or whatever) and it's worked loose then.


It isn't difficult really. But the mess you lot are making of it,
you'll be
there till Christmas doing the one socket. :-)) I do the whole fitting
with a pair of pliers and a screw driver.

It's really not difficult to do it without cutting the cable - someone
already described how to split the insulation lengthwise with a Stanley
knife.


You've broken the copper where it's bent though. This causes heating
through higher resistance in that part of the copper. Not a good idea.

It's still going to be a better contact than if you'd cut it.

Cables have a bend ratio for the diameter of the conductors inside them.
You can hammer them over and expect them to work properly.

Do a web search on "cable bend ratio" to see what I'm talking about.

I know what you're talking about - the no-cut approach provides
mechanical and electrical integrity in addition to twisting and
clamping. But it's not that big a deal.
I've got to say that I agree with BigWallop on this one. There is so
much faff the other way and I have rarely seen it used by sparkies,
though please do not shout if you do use that method.

I am always a bit wary of getting a Stanley knife near a T&E cable.
Most sparkies I have seen use the earth conductor itself to 'open up'
the outer PVC.

So much easier.


Replace 'spam' with 'org' to reply

"Kalico" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:55:48 -0000, Rob Morley
wrote:

In article ,
"BigWallop" says...

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
"BigWallop" says...
snip
Excuse me people, but why not cut the cable and fit both ends to the
socket
properly. Doubling the cable over and the trying to push it through
the
grommet in the back box alone is going to be a hell of a job.

Why - it's still just two 2 1/2 T&E?

But you've broken the conductor cores because you've bent it passed its
recommended bending ratio, so the ends are ****ed now and need cut off
anyways, now that its doubled over enough to fit through the ****ing
hole in
the back box.

Degraded the conductor - you're unlikely to have broken it, and if you
have you're no worse off than if you'd cut it in the first place.


Bring the cable to where the socket is to be positioned. Cut the
cable
enough to take
into the back and connect to the socket. Wrap both earth connecting
cores
together over their full length and slip the sleeving over them.
Connect
earth to back box along with the earth fly lead that reaches to the
socket
plate.

Which means that if any of the screws come loose it could break the
ring
and you'd never realise it. If you don't cut the cable you can't
easily
break the ring.

But the two ends should be wrapped together for mechanical strength.
And
it also means you haven't tightened the terminals properly in the first
place.

It could be that they've come loose while you were wrestling the fitting
onto the back box, or that the face plate has been removed and refitted
at a later date (for decoration or whatever) and it's worked loose then.


It isn't difficult really. But the mess you lot are making of it,
you'll be
there till Christmas doing the one socket. :-)) I do the whole
fitting
with a pair of pliers and a screw driver.

It's really not difficult to do it without cutting the cable - someone
already described how to split the insulation lengthwise with a
Stanley
knife.


You've broken the copper where it's bent though. This causes heating
through higher resistance in that part of the copper. Not a good idea.

It's still going to be a better contact than if you'd cut it.

Cables have a bend ratio for the diameter of the conductors inside them.
You can hammer them over and expect them to work properly.

Do a web search on "cable bend ratio" to see what I'm talking about.

I know what you're talking about - the no-cut approach provides
mechanical and electrical integrity in addition to twisting and
clamping. But it's not that big a deal.
I've got to say that I agree with BigWallop on this one. There is so
much faff the other way and I have rarely seen it used by sparkies,
though please do not shout if you do use that method.

I am always a bit wary of getting a Stanley knife near a T&E cable.
Most sparkies I have seen use the earth conductor itself to 'open up'
the outer PVC.

yes, but how do you get in to start pulling the earth midway?

mrcheerful

"Kalico" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:55:48 -0000, Rob Morley
wrote:

snipped

I am always a bit wary of getting a Stanley knife near a T&E cable.
Most sparkies I have seen use the earth conductor itself to 'open up'
the outer PVC.

So much easier.


Exactly. Get a cut, even a small one, in or on the conductor insulation and
your cable is useless because it will leak.

LOL!!! That sounds just like a cut in a hose as well, don't it? :-))

"mrcheerful ." wrote in message
. uk...

"Kalico" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:55:48 -0000, Rob Morley
wrote:
snipped
I am always a bit wary of getting a Stanley knife near a T&E cable.
Most sparkies I have seen use the earth conductor itself to 'open up'
the outer PVC.

yes, but how do you get in to start pulling the earth midway?

mrcheerful



By grabbing the end of it with pliers after you cut it clean through, and
then pull it. This leaves a little open flap after the outer sheaf is cut
to length, and you use that little flap of PVC to hold the tape once the
green/yellow sleeving is fitted. The tape stops the sleeving from slipping
around when you're moving the earth core about to connect it to the back
box.

The way things are going just now. It may become compulsory to use proper
heat shrink sleeving over the outer PVC coating and the ends of the inner
PVC coverings once the green/yellow sleeve is slid on. But hopefully that
will be years away yet.

In article ,
Rob Morley wrote:
Which means that if any of the screws come loose it could break the ring
and you'd never realise it. If you don't cut the cable you can't easily
break the ring.

Properly tightened screws don't just come loose. And if you're drawing
high current off a socket where the screws are loose the cable will soon
become toast anyway - regardless of being continuous.

--
*If vegetable oil comes from vegetables, where does baby oil come from? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Kalico wrote:
I am always a bit wary of getting a Stanley knife near a T&E cable.
Most sparkies I have seen use the earth conductor itself to 'open up'
the outer PVC.

Yup - use the knife to start it then pull the earth with pliers.

--
*Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"BigWallop" says...

"Kalico" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:55:48 -0000, Rob Morley
wrote:

snipped

I am always a bit wary of getting a Stanley knife near a T&E cable.
Most sparkies I have seen use the earth conductor itself to 'open up'
the outer PVC.

So much easier.


Exactly. Get a cut, even a small one, in or on the conductor insulation and
your cable is useless because it will leak.

You stab it where you're going to strip the conductors anyway.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. uk...

"mrcheerful ." wrote in message
. uk...

"Kalico" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:55:48 -0000, Rob Morley
wrote:
snipped
I am always a bit wary of getting a Stanley knife near a T&E cable.
Most sparkies I have seen use the earth conductor itself to 'open up'
the outer PVC.

yes, but how do you get in to start pulling the earth midway?

mrcheerful



By grabbing the end of it with pliers after you cut it clean through, and
then pull it. This leaves a little open flap after the outer sheaf is

but that was not what the op asked , was it?

mrcheerful

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Rob Morley wrote:
Which means that if any of the screws come loose it could break the ring
and you'd never realise it. If you don't cut the cable you can't easily
break the ring.

Properly tightened screws don't just come loose. And if you're drawing
high current off a socket where the screws are loose the cable will soon
become toast anyway - regardless of being continuous.

--
*If vegetable oil comes from vegetables, where does baby oil come from? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I watched a friend try to wire up his recently rewired rooms with just ring
main loops of cable hanging out the boxes (sparky buggered off leaving job
unfinished) he spent ages carefully stripping, folding, bending, more
folding, more bending finally screwing and then couldn't place socket on box
as too much cable to squeeze in !!! So he had to cut out cable, restrip,
twist together, screw into socket, place socket on wall, job done, much much
quicker. This was 16 years ago and his house hasn't burnt down.