Can anyone give me an idea of what sort of price I would pay for
100* 1.2*2.4*100mm sheets of polystyrene?

Or, what is the typical discount over 1.
Where would I be looking, builders merchants, or are there specialist
suppliers that do insulation?

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Can anyone give me an idea of what sort of price I would pay for
100* 1.2*2.4*100mm sheets of polystyrene?

Or, what is the typical discount over 1.
Where would I be looking, builders merchants, or are there specialist
suppliers that do insulation?

Builders merchants will give you a price but flick through yellow pages and
look for packaging suppliers who do poly boxes etc. My B-i-L does everything
in poly and can probably do sheets at a decent price, I'll ask if you want?

I have recently being paying about £8 per sheet (8'x4') for the 50mm
jablite! I would guess that double the tickness may mean double the price.

What are you using it for, most specifications are now requiring the
horrably expensive urethane boards!




"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Can anyone give me an idea of what sort of price I would pay for
100* 1.2*2.4*100mm sheets of polystyrene?

Or, what is the typical discount over 1.
Where would I be looking, builders merchants, or are there specialist
suppliers that do insulation?

TonyK wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Can anyone give me an idea of what sort of price I would pay for
100* 1.2*2.4*100mm sheets of polystyrene?

Or, what is the typical discount over 1.
Where would I be looking, builders merchants, or are there specialist
suppliers that do insulation?

Builders merchants will give you a price but flick through yellow pages and
look for packaging suppliers who do poly boxes etc. My B-i-L does everything
in poly and can probably do sheets at a decent price, I'll ask if you want?

I suspect I'm quite far away, Fife, Scotland.

I'm being stupid.
B-i-L ?

"Stuart" wrote in message
...
I have recently being paying about £8 per sheet (8'x4') for the 50mm
jablite! I would guess that double the tickness may mean double the price.

What are you using it for, most specifications are now requiring the
horrably expensive urethane boards!

If you buy slight reject boards (www.secondsandco.co.uk) prices are nowhere
near as horrendous.

"G&M" wrote in message
...

"Stuart" wrote in message
...
I have recently being paying about £8 per sheet (8'x4') for the 50mm
jablite! I would guess that double the tickness may mean double the
price.

What are you using it for, most specifications are now requiring the
horrably expensive urethane boards!

If you buy slight reject boards (www.secondsandco.co.uk) prices are
nowhere
near as horrendous.


Everyone I know who has asked for quotes from them has only been offered
first class non-seconds boards at about the going rate.

Sam

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
TonyK wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Can anyone give me an idea of what sort of price I would pay for
100* 1.2*2.4*100mm sheets of polystyrene?

Or, what is the typical discount over 1.
Where would I be looking, builders merchants, or are there specialist
suppliers that do insulation?

Builders merchants will give you a price but flick through yellow pages
and
look for packaging suppliers who do poly boxes etc. My B-i-L does
everything
in poly and can probably do sheets at a decent price, I'll ask if you
want?

I suspect I'm quite far away, Fife, Scotland.

I'm being stupid.
B-i-L ?

Brother-in-Law... I may see him tomorrow, I'll ask if he has any contacts in
your area.

Stuart wrote:
I have recently being paying about ?8 per sheet (8'x4') for the 50mm
jablite! I would guess that double the tickness may mean double the price.

What are you using it for, most specifications are now requiring the
horrably expensive urethane boards!

The tiles+battens+tar-paper on the roof of this house need replaced.
The boards beneath are sound.

I was considering replacing the tar-paper with 100mm polystyrene.
(with minor alterations to other stuff)

To create a warm roof, to enable the use of the attic as habitable space
at some point in the future.

The extra work is not that great, at this point.

"Sam" wrote in message
...
What are you using it for, most specifications are now requiring the
horrably expensive urethane boards!

If you buy slight reject boards (www.secondsandco.co.uk) prices are
nowhere
near as horrendous.


Everyone I know who has asked for quotes from them has only been offered
first class non-seconds boards at about the going rate.

Hmm. Got a whole lorry load from them a year ago at about half the going
rate and need some more soon. I'll see what happens.

TonyK wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
TonyK wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Can anyone give me an idea of what sort of price I would pay for
100* 1.2*2.4*100mm sheets of polystyrene?

Or, what is the typical discount over 1.
Where would I be looking, builders merchants, or are there specialist
suppliers that do insulation?

Builders merchants will give you a price but flick through yellow pages
and
look for packaging suppliers who do poly boxes etc. My B-i-L does
everything
in poly and can probably do sheets at a decent price, I'll ask if you
want?

I suspect I'm quite far away, Fife, Scotland.

I'm being stupid.
B-i-L ?

Brother-in-Law... I may see him tomorrow, I'll ask if he has any contacts in
your area.

Ah.
I was getting hung up on assuming the first word was Build-something.
Many thanks.

Hmm. Got a whole lorry load from them a year ago at about half the going
rate and need some more soon. I'll see what happens.


I guess it's because they get stuff in fits and starts and the people I know
were just unlucky.

Sam

In article , Ian Stirling
writes

The tiles+battens+tar-paper on the roof of this house need replaced.
The boards beneath are sound.

I was considering replacing the tar-paper with 100mm polystyrene.
(with minor alterations to other stuff)

Do you lay roofing felt on top of the polystyrene as well, or just tile
straight on top?

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Ian Stirling wrote:

Can anyone give me an idea of what sort of price I would pay for
100* 1.2*2.4*100mm sheets of polystyrene?

Or, what is the typical discount over 1.
Where would I be looking, builders merchants, or are there specialist
suppliers that do insulation?


Specialist insulation suppliers will be 20-25% cheaper than most BM's.

I think those sheets are about a fiver retail, so maybe 3 quid trade?
Can't remember.

An 8' x 4' sheet of polystyrene, 50 mm thick cost about £18
last week at Jewsons. If cost per unit volume is similar, then
double this thickness would be £36 !! Can't believe that either !!

Nick

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Ian Stirling
writes

The tiles+battens+tar-paper on the roof of this house need replaced.
The boards beneath are sound.

I was considering replacing the tar-paper with 100mm polystyrene.
(with minor alterations to other stuff)

Do you lay roofing felt on top of the polystyrene as well, or just tile
straight on top?

That's a problem.

If you could figure out the attachment of the battens securely (no more
nails?) then it might be an option to just tile straight on top of it,
if you can be sure that you've got the battens secure.

Simply cutting grooves for the tiles to fit in with a circular saw might
be an option with higher density foam.

Glue on a sheet of polystyrene, with battens pre-fixed, put the tiles on from
below, and repeat until finished.

However, subsequent work on the roof would be interesting, as you'd
practically require crawl-boards, and the risk of tearing a batten
off the polystyrene is probably fairly high.

I suspect sheets of 4mm exterior grade ply, with the battens fixed to that
may be an answer.

Vertical strips of wood under tar-paper, with the battens fixed to them may be
a better one.

Is there a better barrier than tar-paper?

Still at the early stages, just wondering if it's practical at the moment.
I don't see any show-stoppers.

First thing I'm doing is attaching ropes to the rafters, going through near
the top., as an extra backup.

I'm confident I could do it without, but I've been confident before.
Looking silly dangling at the end of a rope beats looking silly while falling
through the air.

Though the eaves are only 3-5m off the ground that's about 2.5-4.5m
further than I like to fall.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message news:9hxgc.33939$Y%

First thing I'm doing is attaching ropes to the rafters, going through
near
the top., as an extra backup.

I'm confident I could do it without, but I've been confident before.
Looking silly dangling at the end of a rope beats looking silly while
falling
through the air.

Wise words.

Though the eaves are only 3-5m off the ground that's about 2.5-4.5m
further than I like to fall.

:-)

Mary

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:37:41 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

If you could figure out the attachment of the battens securely (no
more nails?) then it might be an option to just tile straight on top
of it, if you can be sure that you've got the battens secure.

You don't want horizontal battens fixed to a solid roof. Any water
that gets through the primary covering (tiles, slates WHY) will be
trapped along the top edge of the battens and hasten the rot of their
rot.

On a boarded out roof you put the sarking on first, then vertical
battens and horizontals ones for the tiles on top. The verticals give
space for any penetrating water to run down and out into the gutter.

Simply cutting grooves for the tiles to fit in with a circular saw
might be an option with higher density foam.

And what are you going to nail then to? No nails and the first decent
blow will have the lot off...

Is there a better barrier than tar-paper?

Try the "gortex for houses" the name of which slips my mind ATM. It's
expensive but does breath unlike traditional felts and tar paper and
doesn't perish/rot either.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:37:41 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

If you could figure out the attachment of the battens securely (no
more nails?) then it might be an option to just tile straight on top
of it, if you can be sure that you've got the battens secure.

You don't want horizontal battens fixed to a solid roof. Any water
that gets through the primary covering (tiles, slates WHY) will be
trapped along the top edge of the battens and hasten the rot of their
rot.

True, I wasn't really thinking.

The battens on my roof have pretty much lost it. I have serious doubts that
they were treated wood, and debris has built up (birds are partly to blame)
to such a level that they are almost buried...

On a boarded out roof you put the sarking on first, then vertical
battens and horizontals ones for the tiles on top. The verticals give
space for any penetrating water to run down and out into the gutter.

Or in my case, a handy gutter of tar-paper that holds the water against
the boards.

Cowboys.


Simply cutting grooves for the tiles to fit in with a circular saw
might be an option with higher density foam.

And what are you going to nail then to? No nails and the first decent
blow will have the lot off...

There are no nails on the tiles on my roof.

The tiles sit on the battens, and have a little peg that holds them on.
Seems to work mostly OK.
A few have fallen off, but only where the batten is pretty much rotted
through, and the tile has pulled the corner of the wood off.

Doesn't seem anything that would inherently stop it working if it was just
cut into the polystyrene, though the common insulating grade is not dense
enough. (I suppose tiles sitting in pools of water would not be good).

Is there a better barrier than tar-paper?

Try the "gortex for houses" the name of which slips my mind ATM. It's
expensive but does breath unlike traditional felts and tar paper and
doesn't perish/rot either.

I was assuming breathing would be pretty much irrelevant, if it was on
the top of thick insulation.
The idea was basically to protect the verticals, which would be glued
onto the polystyrene from water.
Then again, if water did get in, being breathable would be a good idea.
I have to think about the fixing a bit more.

Trying to decide if attempting to keep the polystyrene as an entire skin,
glued on with foam, which could be a very watertight layer, or
penetrating it with hundreds of fixings is better.

I wonder if simply attaching the verticals at the top and bottom would be
adequate, to carry the tension loads.

I need to do more research on adhesion of stuff to polystyrene in the damp
after many years.

Thanks for the comments.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:18:53 +0100, "nick smith"
wrote:

An 8' x 4' sheet of polystyrene, 50 mm thick cost about £18
last week at Jewsons. If cost per unit volume is similar, then
double this thickness would be £36 !! Can't believe that either !!

Nick

Hi,

CW Berry are quite cheap for 100mm at £12.12+

http://www.cwberry.com/epb2.01/02-co...olystyrene.htm

If you are buying 100 sheets and cannot get it direct from the
manufacturer I'd expect they would do a good deal and get it delivered
direct.

cheers,
Pete.

Ian Stirling wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:37:41 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

The battens on my roof have pretty much lost it. I have serious

On a boarded out roof you put the sarking on first, then vertical
battens and horizontals ones for the tiles on top. The verticals give

Simply cutting grooves for the tiles to fit in with a circular saw
might be an option with higher density foam.

And what are you going to nail then to? No nails and the first decent
blow will have the lot off...

There are no nails on the tiles on my roof.

Is there a better barrier than tar-paper?

Try the "gortex for houses" the name of which slips my mind ATM. It's
expensive but does breath unlike traditional felts and tar paper and
doesn't perish/rot either.

Tyvek for one, or breathable roofing underlay for the generics.

I was assuming breathing would be pretty much irrelevant, if it was on
the top of thick insulation.
The idea was basically to protect the verticals, which would be glued
onto the polystyrene from water.
Then again, if water did get in, being breathable would be a good
idea.
I have to think about the fixing a bit more.

Trying to decide if attempting to keep the polystyrene as an entire
skin, glued on with foam, which could be a very watertight layer, or
penetrating it with hundreds of fixings is better.

The pdf's by Knauf give a clear overview of fixing and layering details. I
would think that mechanical fixing overlayed with a breather membrane would
be quicker, easier, and more likely to keep a BCO happy. Counter battens
nailed through the breather & insulation into the rafters using spiral
fixings, and tiling battens on top. Vapour barrier on the inside.
Knauf www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/company/literat.htm
Sheffield Insulations (nationwide & recommended elsewhere) are worth calling
for pricing if the BM's are not feeling generous. www.sheffins.co.uk
Perthshire
Encon also are worth checking www.encon.co.uk Dundee & Glasgow

An alternate to the poly sheets especially if you are keen on a warm roof
and are going to strip it anyway is the Airtec film from YBS, now stocked by
Screwfix (and others). It's equivalent to 50mm poly, can be fitted to give a
0.35 U value and so so simple to fit. Inner layer doubles as vapour barrier
when taped.
http://www.ybs.fastfreenet.com/roofing.zip (pdf)
YBS www.floorinsulationproducts.co.uk/ daft flash site unfortunately.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:57:31 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

There are no nails on the tiles on my roof.

I'd have expected one to every other tile at least. Our slates all
have 2 each and still rattle when it gets blowy. But then at 1400' and
exposed it does get a might windier than most places...

The idea was basically to protect the verticals, which would be
glued onto the polystyrene from water.

No, the water barrier needs to go on top of the insulation and all the
timber in the drafty gap under the tiles.

Personally if you want a warm roof with the insulation on the outside
of the rafters you really need to be getting proper advice from a
roofing specialist. The normal way for a warm roof is the outer layer
to be traditional with insulation between the rafters.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Ian Stirling wrote:

Can anyone give me an idea of what sort of price I would pay for
100* 1.2*2.4*100mm sheets of polystyrene?

Or, what is the typical discount over 1.
Where would I be looking, builders merchants, or are there specialist
suppliers that do insulation?


Specialist insulation suppliers will be 20-25% cheaper than most BM's.

I think those sheets are about a fiver retail, so maybe 3 quid trade?
Can't remember.


Oopps. I misrtead youur sizes. I was thiking of the 1.2m x 600mm or
whatever it is 4x3 2 fiit, ou are talking 8x4 right? so multiply by at
leats 4, maybe 8, because 100mm is damned thick. somewhere in the 20
quid plus reguon.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:37:41 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Ian Stirling
writes

The tiles+battens+tar-paper on the roof of this house need replaced.
The boards beneath are sound.

I was considering replacing the tar-paper with 100mm polystyrene.
(with minor alterations to other stuff)

Do you lay roofing felt on top of the polystyrene as well, or just tile
straight on top?

That's a problem.

If you could figure out the attachment of the battens securely (no more
nails?) then it might be an option to just tile straight on top of it,
if you can be sure that you've got the battens secure.

Simply cutting grooves for the tiles to fit in with a circular saw might
be an option with higher density foam.

Glue on a sheet of polystyrene, with battens pre-fixed, put the tiles on from
below, and repeat until finished.

However, subsequent work on the roof would be interesting, as you'd
practically require crawl-boards, and the risk of tearing a batten
off the polystyrene is probably fairly high.

I suspect sheets of 4mm exterior grade ply, with the battens fixed to that
may be an answer.

Vertical strips of wood under tar-paper, with the battens fixed to them may be
a better one.

Is there a better barrier than tar-paper?

Still at the early stages, just wondering if it's practical at the moment.
I don't see any show-stoppers.

First thing I'm doing is attaching ropes to the rafters, going through near
the top., as an extra backup.

I'm confident I could do it without, but I've been confident before.
Looking silly dangling at the end of a rope beats looking silly while falling
through the air.

Though the eaves are only 3-5m off the ground that's about 2.5-4.5m
further than I like to fall.


According to my Architect waht you do is this ................

from the rrafters you put on the insulation, then nail battons on top
of the orignal line of the rafters. Then goes in the felt, then the
cross battons which hold the tiles.

Now you go inside, and put more insulation between the rafters, then
you finish it off. This way the bottom of the rafters poke out into
the room, you you have exposed rafters.