Hi, I wonder if someone can shed some light on this. I live in a 5 year old
Bryant home. There is a boiler downstairs and the tank upstairs.

When I turn on the hot water via the boiler (On teh electronic keypad
downstairs) The water does not get hot, but the radiators do. It was all
working fine last year. However, in the summer, I stopped using the boiler
completely and used the electricity to power the water tank for hot water.
I believe this isn't good cos it costs a fortune - I know for next time now
though.

Anyhow, before I pay some guy a fortune, does anyone have any suggestions as
where to start looking? I'm a completely numpty on central heating, but I'm
not too bad at diy.

Kind regards,

Daniel

Daniel wrote:
Hi, I wonder if someone can shed some light on this. I live in a 5
year old Bryant home. There is a boiler downstairs and the tank
upstairs.
When I turn on the hot water via the boiler (On teh electronic keypad
downstairs) The water does not get hot, but the radiators do. It was
all working fine last year. However, in the summer, I stopped using
the boiler completely and used the electricity to power the water
tank for hot water. I believe this isn't good cos it costs a fortune
- I know for next time now though.

Anyhow, before I pay some guy a fortune, does anyone have any
suggestions as where to start looking? I'm a completely numpty on
central heating, but I'm not too bad at diy.

Kind regards,

Daniel

Some idea as to what make/type of boiler we are aiming at wouldn't go amiss.
Combi or just a plain boiler?
Using 'leccy to heat water is a bad idea (it's the most expensive form of
fuel). When you say "When I turn on the hot water via the boiler (On teh
electronic keypad downstairs) The water does not get hot, but the radiators
do" are you certain you are "turning on" the DHW or the CH instead?
--

Reply address is spamtrapped. Remove theobvious for valid e-mail address

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply. Ok, to be honest I don't know the diff between a
combi or plain boiler. It's an "Ideal Minimiser SE". The keypad to control
it is a Donfuss FP715. Upstairs in the airing cupboard there is a Donfuss
Motorised Valve.

I'm definately putting on the HW and not the CH. The keypad is easy to use,
and I made sure CH was on "OFF" and I put HW to "ON". I've been reading in
the Google newsgroup archive of uk.d-i-y and some guys say the motorised
valve could be gone (Thats why I mentioned it above) but I am not sure how
to test it. It has a metal lever on it labeled Auto/Manual, and I moved it
over, but it didn't help so I moved it back to Auto. I've noticed then even
with the hot water on, the radiators are on as I mentioned, and on one side
of the motorised valve (labelled "Central Heating") the pipe is hot, but the
other side (Labelled "Hot Water") the pipe is luke warm.

Any more suggestions? I see a new motorised valve is around £31.00 so I
want to be sure it's that, and if it is, can I fit one myself?

"Paul King" wrote in message
...
Daniel wrote:
Hi, I wonder if someone can shed some light on this. I live in a 5
year old Bryant home. There is a boiler downstairs and the tank
upstairs.
When I turn on the hot water via the boiler (On teh electronic keypad
downstairs) The water does not get hot, but the radiators do. It was
all working fine last year. However, in the summer, I stopped using
the boiler completely and used the electricity to power the water
tank for hot water. I believe this isn't good cos it costs a fortune
- I know for next time now though.

Anyhow, before I pay some guy a fortune, does anyone have any
suggestions as where to start looking? I'm a completely numpty on
central heating, but I'm not too bad at diy.

Kind regards,

Daniel

Some idea as to what make/type of boiler we are aiming at wouldn't go
amiss. Combi or just a plain boiler?
Using 'leccy to heat water is a bad idea (it's the most expensive form of
fuel). When you say "When I turn on the hot water via the boiler (On teh
electronic keypad downstairs) The water does not get hot, but the
radiators do" are you certain you are "turning on" the DHW or the CH
instead?
--

Reply address is spamtrapped. Remove theobvious for valid e-mail address

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Daniel wrote:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply. Ok, to be honest I don't know the diff between
a combi or plain boiler. It's an "Ideal Minimiser SE". The keypad
to control it is a Donfuss FP715. Upstairs in the airing cupboard
there is a Donfuss Motorised Valve.

I'm definately putting on the HW and not the CH. The keypad is easy
to use, and I made sure CH was on "OFF" and I put HW to "ON". I've
been reading in the Google newsgroup archive of uk.d-i-y and some
guys say the motorised valve could be gone (Thats why I mentioned it
above) but I am not sure how to test it. It has a metal lever on it
labeled Auto/Manual, and I moved it over, but it didn't help so I
moved it back to Auto. I've noticed then even with the hot water on,
the radiators are on as I mentioned, and on one side of the motorised
valve (labelled "Central Heating") the pipe is hot, but the other
side (Labelled "Hot Water") the pipe is luke warm.

Any more suggestions? I see a new motorised valve is around £31.00
so I want to be sure it's that, and if it is, can I fit one myself?


First, a bit of education . . .

You have a conventional (not combi) boiler which provides central heating
and stored (not instant) hot water using a Y-plan setup ( see
http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/systems.htm)

This uses a mid-position 3-port motorised valve to direct the water from the
boiler either to the radiators or to the heating coil in the hot water
cylinder, or to both at the same time.

In its rest state, the valve gives hot water only. The internal motor inside
the actuator drives it to the mid or CH position, as required. It has a
spring return to bring it back to the HW position when motor current is
removed.

For one reason or another, your valve isn't returning to the HW position.
The valve is actually in two parts - the wet bit with a shaft sticking out
of the top and the actuator (the electrical) bit which rotates the shaft to
direct the water to the right places. The chances are that the wet bit has
partially seized up due to lack of exercise during the summer.

You should be able to remove the actuator from the top of the valve by
undoing a couple of screws (but leave it connected electrically). You will
then see the shaft - which is circular in cross section apart from one flat
bit (making it a bit like a D). You should be able to rotate the shaft
backwards and forwards with finger and thumb - or at any rate using light
pressure with a pair of pliers. If you can't, this is your problem. You may
be able to free it up by turning to and fro with pliers. If you can't, you
will need to replace the wet part of the valve - which involves partially
draining the system.

If the valve is free, but you *still* have no hot water, the actuator could
be faulty - but that is less likely. With the actuator removed from the
valve, test the spring return by moving the lever and then releasing it. You
should see and hear the spring returning it to the rest position. If it
doesn't, the spring is duff. These actualtors do have other modes of
failure - but these usually result in no heating rather than no hot water.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Any more suggestions? I see a new motorised valve is around £31.00 so I
want to be sure it's that, and if it is, can I fit one myself?

It sounds very much like the valve.

There are 2 main parts to the valve, the water bit with the valve parts and
the "head" which contains the motor and switches. It is normally the head
that goes. It is easy to replace just that part without having to drain down
or dismantle any water carrying parts. It is not much harder than wiring a
plug.

A quick test to determine whether it is just the head is to remove it and
try to rotate the valve "paddle" manually. If it is very stiff, then the
valve might be shot. If it moves easily, then it is probably the head,
although it isn't a absolutely fool proof test.

Heads often don't cost much less than the complete valve, so you might
consider buying the whole thing, so that if it turns out that the valve
itself is knackered, you've already bought the bit and can reunite the new
head and valve.

Christian.

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Heads often don't cost much less than the complete valve, so you
might consider buying the whole thing, so that if it turns out
that the valve itself is knackered, you've already bought the bit
and can reunite the new head and valve.

IME it's easier to replace the Synchron motor (£10+VAT or so),
especially if the lead on the existing head disappears into a rats
nest of wires.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Hi,

Ok thanks for the info thus far. Tonight i removed the actuator from the
valve. I can turn the valve easily left and right with my fingers. So it
looks liek it's the actuator? To test this I went and switched the keypad
from HW to CH and got someone to watch the actuator to see if it moved - It
didn't move.

Would it be worth taking the cover off the actuator and checking this
spring? I'd like to make sure it's the actuator and not the keypad, or
something inbetween.

Thanks for the help so far, you guys are life (and £££) savers

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Daniel wrote:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply. Ok, to be honest I don't know the diff between
a combi or plain boiler. It's an "Ideal Minimiser SE". The keypad
to control it is a Donfuss FP715. Upstairs in the airing cupboard
there is a Donfuss Motorised Valve.

I'm definately putting on the HW and not the CH. The keypad is easy
to use, and I made sure CH was on "OFF" and I put HW to "ON". I've
been reading in the Google newsgroup archive of uk.d-i-y and some
guys say the motorised valve could be gone (Thats why I mentioned it
above) but I am not sure how to test it. It has a metal lever on it
labeled Auto/Manual, and I moved it over, but it didn't help so I
moved it back to Auto. I've noticed then even with the hot water on,
the radiators are on as I mentioned, and on one side of the motorised
valve (labelled "Central Heating") the pipe is hot, but the other
side (Labelled "Hot Water") the pipe is luke warm.

Any more suggestions? I see a new motorised valve is around £31.00
so I want to be sure it's that, and if it is, can I fit one myself?


First, a bit of education . . .

You have a conventional (not combi) boiler which provides central heating
and stored (not instant) hot water using a Y-plan setup ( see
http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/systems.htm)

This uses a mid-position 3-port motorised valve to direct the water from
the
boiler either to the radiators or to the heating coil in the hot water
cylinder, or to both at the same time.

In its rest state, the valve gives hot water only. The internal motor
inside
the actuator drives it to the mid or CH position, as required. It has a
spring return to bring it back to the HW position when motor current is
removed.

For one reason or another, your valve isn't returning to the HW position.
The valve is actually in two parts - the wet bit with a shaft sticking out
of the top and the actuator (the electrical) bit which rotates the shaft
to
direct the water to the right places. The chances are that the wet bit has
partially seized up due to lack of exercise during the summer.

You should be able to remove the actuator from the top of the valve by
undoing a couple of screws (but leave it connected electrically). You will
then see the shaft - which is circular in cross section apart from one
flat
bit (making it a bit like a D). You should be able to rotate the shaft
backwards and forwards with finger and thumb - or at any rate using light
pressure with a pair of pliers. If you can't, this is your problem. You
may
be able to free it up by turning to and fro with pliers. If you can't, you
will need to replace the wet part of the valve - which involves partially
draining the system.

If the valve is free, but you *still* have no hot water, the actuator
could
be faulty - but that is less likely. With the actuator removed from the
valve, test the spring return by moving the lever and then releasing it.
You
should see and hear the spring returning it to the rest position. If it
doesn't, the spring is duff. These actualtors do have other modes of
failure - but these usually result in no heating rather than no hot water.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Daniel wrote:

Hi,

Ok thanks for the info thus far. Tonight i removed the actuator from
the valve. I can turn the valve easily left and right with my
fingers. So it looks liek it's the actuator? To test this I went
and switched the keypad from HW to CH and got someone to watch the
actuator to see if it moved - It didn't move.

Would it be worth taking the cover off the actuator and checking this
spring? I'd like to make sure it's the actuator and not the keypad,
or something inbetween.

Thanks for the help so far, you guys are life (and £££) savers


My guess is that the actuator is stuck in the CH position, and the spring
return isn't working. Sometimes, they can just get confused - and need to be
reset.

The first thing to do is this: With the actuator removed from the valve, but
still connected by its wires, get someone to observe what it does when you
remove *all* power to the heating system. [You should have an isolator
switch somewhere for the heating - switch *that* off, not just the
programmer].

If when you do this, you see and hear it return to the HW position, you may
have fixed it. Refit it to the valve, switch on and see what happens.

If it does *nothing* when all power is removed, see whether you can move the
actuator with the manual lever. You should feel some resistance from the
gearbox as it moves - and when you release it, it should move back under
spring return.

It the lever flops about without moving anything and/or if the spring
doesn't return it, the chances are that it's shot. They can sometimes be
repaired - but for the sake of 30 quid or so it's usually best to replace
them.

Make a careful note of the wiring before disconnecting it. There are 5
coloured wires, and the replacement must be connected exactly the same.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Hi,

Ok, I've opened up the actuator to find the Syncron motor. The unit is
warm, and you can feel a slite "humm" in it. Are the Syncron units all the
same, I found one on Screwfix for 7.99

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Heads often don't cost much less than the complete valve, so you
might consider buying the whole thing, so that if it turns out
that the valve itself is knackered, you've already bought the bit
and can reunite the new head and valve.

IME it's easier to replace the Synchron motor (£10+VAT or so),
especially if the lead on the existing head disappears into a rats
nest of wires.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Hey,

Ok, reset the system (Found the isolator) Then played around with the
actuator. Switched back on the system. Selected HW and the actuator moved
one way. Then selected CH and the isolator moved another way, about 45
degrees and then keep clicking, I take it this means it's shot and needs to
be replaced? This is looking good so I know what to replace


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Daniel wrote:

Hi,

Ok thanks for the info thus far. Tonight i removed the actuator from
the valve. I can turn the valve easily left and right with my
fingers. So it looks liek it's the actuator? To test this I went
and switched the keypad from HW to CH and got someone to watch the
actuator to see if it moved - It didn't move.

Would it be worth taking the cover off the actuator and checking this
spring? I'd like to make sure it's the actuator and not the keypad,
or something inbetween.

Thanks for the help so far, you guys are life (and £££) savers


My guess is that the actuator is stuck in the CH position, and the spring
return isn't working. Sometimes, they can just get confused - and need to
be
reset.

The first thing to do is this: With the actuator removed from the valve,
but
still connected by its wires, get someone to observe what it does when you
remove *all* power to the heating system. [You should have an isolator
switch somewhere for the heating - switch *that* off, not just the
programmer].

If when you do this, you see and hear it return to the HW position, you
may
have fixed it. Refit it to the valve, switch on and see what happens.

If it does *nothing* when all power is removed, see whether you can move
the
actuator with the manual lever. You should feel some resistance from the
gearbox as it moves - and when you release it, it should move back under
spring return.

It the lever flops about without moving anything and/or if the spring
doesn't return it, the chances are that it's shot. They can sometimes be
repaired - but for the sake of 30 quid or so it's usually best to replace
them.

Make a careful note of the wiring before disconnecting it. There are 5
coloured wires, and the replacement must be connected exactly the same.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Take it off and see if it spins.

"Daniel" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Ok, I've opened up the actuator to find the Syncron motor. The unit is
warm, and you can feel a slite "humm" in it. Are the Syncron units all
the
same, I found one on Screwfix for 7.99

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Heads often don't cost much less than the complete valve, so you
might consider buying the whole thing, so that if it turns out
that the valve itself is knackered, you've already bought the bit
and can reunite the new head and valve.

IME it's easier to replace the Synchron motor (£10+VAT or so),
especially if the lead on the existing head disappears into a rats
nest of wires.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Daniel wrote:

Hey,

Ok, reset the system (Found the isolator) Then played around with the
actuator. Switched back on the system. Selected HW and the actuator
moved one way. Then selected CH and the isolator moved another way,
about 45 degrees and then keep clicking, I take it this means it's
shot and needs to be replaced? This is looking good so I know what
to replace


It may not be shot - it may just have needed resetting.

There should be 90 degrees between HW and CH, with "both" being at the
mid-way position at 45 degrees. It may click - that's not necessarily a
fault. In either the CH or 'both' position, the motor is powered but
stalled - that's the nature of the beast!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In article , Daniel wrote:
Ok, I've opened up the actuator to find the Syncron motor. The
unit is warm, and you can feel a slite "humm" in it. Are the
Syncron units all the same, I found one on Screwfix for 7.99

I've only ever fixed Honeywell and Randall ones and they're all
standard. You need to be careful with some designs in that the two
motor screws also serve to clamp a plate with the return spring. Let
this go and you'll be searching for the bits everywhere. Otherwise
it's five minute job: the motor comes with new crimps to join its
wires to the supply. Don't forget to turn the power off g

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm