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Boiler sizing from heatloss calculations
Hi,
I've done the heatloss calculations on my house and came out with a figure of 8.4kW. What factor would I need to multiply this figure with to get the boiler size? I am assuming that I will need to allow 7kW for the DHW. Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating) condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). FYI: I plan to get a heatbank like the McDonald Thermflow. Cheers, W |
Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating)
condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). Modern condensing boilers are usually sized at 24kW or above, which will be enough for your needs. Christian. |
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:04:33 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote: Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating) condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). Modern condensing boilers are usually sized at 24kW or above, which will be enough for your needs. The Ideal Icos HE heating boilers come in 12, 15, 18, and 24kW versions. This is the boiler recommended to me by a tank manufacturer. The 24kW version is only about £35 more than the 18kW one. Is there any reason to go for the 18kW version? Thanks, W |
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message . net... Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating) condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). Modern condensing boilers are usually sized at 24kW or above, which will be enough for your needs. Christian. Wish there where self modulating biolers when I installed my system 25 years ago. I note some boilers have the ability to self modulate via built in electronics. MikeS |
The Ideal Icos HE heating boilers come in 12, 15, 18, and 24kW
versions. This is the boiler recommended to me by a tank manufacturer. The 24kW version is only about £35 more than the 18kW one. Is there any reason to go for the 18kW version? No. It is a marketing strategy of theirs. 2 years ago, they only did a 24kW version (which could be "reprogrammed" to 28kW). However, the "heating" versions should normally be avoided, although they have their uses. It is usually best to upgrade to a sealed pressurised system and use the "system" version, which has the sealed system components internally (and sometimes a pump). Christian. |
In article ,
W writes: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:04:33 -0000, "Christian McArdle" wrote: Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating) condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). Modern condensing boilers are usually sized at 24kW or above, which will be enough for your needs. The Ideal Icos HE heating boilers come in 12, 15, 18, and 24kW versions. This is the boiler recommended to me by a tank manufacturer. The 24kW version is only about £35 more than the 18kW one. Is there any reason to go for the 18kW version? I'm not familiar with this boiler, but presumably the lower modulation limit also increases? It's going to end up cycling on and off if you are routinely needing less heat from it than it's lowest level. (If it's like the Keston, there's quite a bit of hysteresis before the boiler will fire up again when this happens.) If you calculated 8.4kW at -3C outdoors, then most of the time your heating is on, you won't need anything like that amount of power. If your existing gas pipe run was marginal on pressure drop, it might be that you could get away with it on one power rating, but not the next one up without replacing the gas pipework (maybe only some of it). -- Andrew Gabriel |
"W" wrote in message ... Hi, I've done the heatloss calculations on my house and came out with a figure of 8.4kW. What factor would I need to multiply this figure with to get the boiler size? I am assuming that I will need to allow 7kW for the DHW. Most boilers modulate somewhere around 5kW to around 25kW. Glow worm have a 5 to 18kW and 5 to 28kW system boiler. You may not see much difference in price. Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating) condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). FYI: I plan to get a heatbank like the McDonald Thermflow. I assume the integrated one withy the heating circuit taken from the store. Make sure the thermal store has two stats to prevent boiler cycling. The bigger the boiler the better with a thermal store http://www.uselessenergy.org.uk/boil...s.asp#wallhung Glow worm 30HXi "heating" boiler for £438.50 + VAT. This is a basic. modulating heating boiler and you, or the thermal store maker, supplies the pump. It will re-heat the store pronto. The biz. The Worcester Bosch Greenstar 28HE is a similar boiler. The modulation when using a thermal store doesn't matter that much as the store controls the boiler. Set the store to 75C. Try the Range, which is a heat bank with a plate heat exchanger. Better. http://rangecylinders.co.uk/products/flowmax/index.html Look at the picture of the Range. They will provide all the pumps, and a second anti-cycle stat. All you do is connect up the boiler with two pipes and a gas supply. Have a simple single channel time clock for the DHW, and Honeywell CM67 to control and turn on the heating side. Sorted. |
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message ... In article , W writes: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:04:33 -0000, "Christian McArdle" wrote: Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating) condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). Modern condensing boilers are usually sized at 24kW or above, which will be enough for your needs. The Ideal Icos HE heating boilers come in 12, 15, 18, and 24kW versions. This is the boiler recommended to me by a tank manufacturer. The 24kW version is only about £35 more than the 18kW one. Is there any reason to go for the 18kW version? I'm not familiar with this boiler, but presumably the lower modulation limit also increases? It's going to end up cycling on and off if you are routinely needing less heat from it than it's lowest level. (If it's like the Keston, there's quite a bit of hysteresis before the boiler will fire up again when this happens.) If you calculated 8.4kW at -3C outdoors, then most of the time your heating is on, you won't need anything like that amount of power. If your existing gas pipe run was marginal on pressure drop, it might be that you could get away with it on one power rating, but not the next one up without replacing the gas pipework (maybe only some of it). -- Andrew Gabriel He is going thermal store so the lower level of modulation is not an issue at all. |
"W" wrote in message ... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:04:33 -0000, "Christian McArdle" wrote: Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating) condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). Modern condensing boilers are usually sized at 24kW or above, which will be enough for your needs. The Ideal Icos HE heating boilers come in 12, 15, 18, and 24kW versions. This is the boiler recommended to me by a tank manufacturer. The 24kW version is only about £35 more than the 18kW one. Is there any reason to go for the 18kW version? Thanks, W This is all irrelevant as you are going thermal store . Get the biggest boiler to your budget as you can. Then a super fast re-heat. |
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:49:55 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote: The Ideal Icos HE heating boilers come in 12, 15, 18, and 24kW versions. This is the boiler recommended to me by a tank manufacturer. The 24kW version is only about £35 more than the 18kW one. Is there any reason to go for the 18kW version? No. It is a marketing strategy of theirs. 2 years ago, they only did a 24kW version (which could be "reprogrammed" to 28kW). However, the "heating" versions should normally be avoided, although they have their uses. It is usually best to upgrade to a sealed pressurised system and use the "system" version, which has the sealed system components internally (and sometimes a pump). I am interested to know why the heating versions should be avoided. I would have thought they would be more efficient in my situation since the boiler heats the heatbank directly without the need for an additional heat exchanger in the tank or an expansion vessel anywhere. Cheers, W |
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"W" wrote in message ... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:09:26 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "W" wrote in message .. . Hi, I've done the heatloss calculations on my house and came out with a figure of 8.4kW. What factor would I need to multiply this figure with to get the boiler size? I am assuming that I will need to allow 7kW for the DHW. Most boilers modulate somewhere around 5kW to around 25kW. Glow worm have a 5 to 18kW and 5 to 28kW system boiler. You may not see much difference in price. I was tending away from a system boiler because of the additional cost & complexity (which I don't think is necessary in my situation). Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating) condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). FYI: I plan to get a heatbank like the McDonald Thermflow. I assume the integrated one withy the heating circuit taken from the store. Make sure the thermal store has two stats to prevent boiler cycling. The bigger the boiler the better with a thermal store http://www.uselessenergy.org.uk/boil...s.asp#wallhung Glow worm 30HXi "heating" boiler for £438.50 + VAT. Thanks. I'll look into this one. This is a basic. modulating heating boiler and you, or the thermal store maker, supplies the pump. It will re-heat the store pronto. The biz. The Worcester Bosch Greenstar 28HE is a similar boiler. ... and this one. The modulation when using a thermal store doesn't matter that much as the store controls the boiler. Set the store to 75C. Try the Range, which is a heat bank with a plate heat exchanger. Better. http://rangecylinders.co.uk/products/flowmax/index.html Look at the picture of the Range. They will provide all the pumps, and a second anti-cycle stat. All you do is connect up the boiler with two pipes and a gas supply. Have a simple single channel time clock for the DHW, and Honeywell CM67 to control and turn on the heating side. I've considered a heat bank but I'm not (yet) convinced that they are worth the extra money. Considering that they are about double the price (AFAIK) of a thermal store then they would have to be a _lot_ better to convince me (unless you know different). Cheers, W What prices have you been quoted? |
"W" wrote in message ... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:49:55 -0000, "Christian McArdle" wrote: The Ideal Icos HE heating boilers come in 12, 15, 18, and 24kW versions. This is the boiler recommended to me by a tank manufacturer. The 24kW version is only about £35 more than the 18kW one. Is there any reason to go for the 18kW version? No. It is a marketing strategy of theirs. 2 years ago, they only did a 24kW version (which could be "reprogrammed" to 28kW). However, the "heating" versions should normally be avoided, although they have their uses. It is usually best to upgrade to a sealed pressurised system and use the "system" version, which has the sealed system components internally (and sometimes a pump). I am interested to know why the heating versions should be avoided. I would have thought they would be more efficient in my situation since the boiler heats the heatbank directly without the need for an additional heat exchanger in the tank or an expansion vessel anywhere. In your case the basic heating boiler heating they store directly is the one. The system boiler is fine if you want a sealed system as all is inside the case. Don't forget to put enough inhibitor in the thermals store. |
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:09:26 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"W" wrote in message .. . Hi, I've done the heatloss calculations on my house and came out with a figure of 8.4kW. What factor would I need to multiply this figure with to get the boiler size? I am assuming that I will need to allow 7kW for the DHW. Most boilers modulate somewhere around 5kW to around 25kW. Glow worm have a 5 to 18kW and 5 to 28kW system boiler. You may not see much difference in price. I was tending away from a system boiler because of the additional cost & complexity (which I don't think is necessary in my situation). Is there any disadvantages in oversizing a modern (modulating) condensing boiler (ignoring the slight difference in purchase costs). FYI: I plan to get a heatbank like the McDonald Thermflow. I assume the integrated one withy the heating circuit taken from the store. Make sure the thermal store has two stats to prevent boiler cycling. The bigger the boiler the better with a thermal store http://www.uselessenergy.org.uk/boil...s.asp#wallhung Glow worm 30HXi "heating" boiler for £438.50 + VAT. Thanks. I'll look into this one. This is a basic. modulating heating boiler and you, or the thermal store maker, supplies the pump. It will re-heat the store pronto. The biz. The Worcester Bosch Greenstar 28HE is a similar boiler. .... and this one. The modulation when using a thermal store doesn't matter that much as the store controls the boiler. Set the store to 75C. Try the Range, which is a heat bank with a plate heat exchanger. Better. http://rangecylinders.co.uk/products/flowmax/index.html Look at the picture of the Range. They will provide all the pumps, and a second anti-cycle stat. All you do is connect up the boiler with two pipes and a gas supply. Have a simple single channel time clock for the DHW, and Honeywell CM67 to control and turn on the heating side. I've considered a heat bank but I'm not (yet) convinced that they are worth the extra money. Considering that they are about double the price (AFAIK) of a thermal store then they would have to be a _lot_ better to convince me (unless you know different). Cheers, W |
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:52:05 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
I've considered a heat bank but I'm not (yet) convinced that they are worth the extra money. Considering that they are about double the price (AFAIK) of a thermal store then they would have to be a _lot_ better to convince me (unless you know different). Cheers, W What prices have you been quoted? I've been quoted about £700 for a large 250L thermal store. I haven't had a quote for a heat bank but I thought they were around the £1400 mark for a similar size. Maybe I'm wrong though :-) W |
However, the "heating" versions should normally be avoided, although they
have their uses. It is usually best to upgrade to a sealed pressurised system and use the "system" version, which has the sealed system components internally (and sometimes a pump). I am interested to know why the heating versions should be avoided. I would have thought they would be more efficient in my situation since the boiler heats the heatbank directly without the need for an additional heat exchanger in the tank or an expansion vessel anywhere. Use to reheat a direct heat bank is one of the "have their uses" noted above. Christian. |
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message . net... However, the "heating" versions should normally be avoided, although they have their uses. It is usually best to upgrade to a sealed pressurised system and use the "system" version, which has the sealed system components internally (and sometimes a pump). I am interested to know why the heating versions should be avoided. I would have thought they would be more efficient in my situation since the boiler heats the heatbank directly without the need for an additional heat exchanger in the tank or an expansion vessel anywhere. Use to reheat a direct heat bank is one of the "have their uses" noted above. I Installed one of these to an existing open vented system. The reason was to keep the old cast iron boiler in the garage as a back up. Throw a switch and the old boiler comes in and the new one is out. Full backup of heating and DHW. |
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:14:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message .net... However, the "heating" versions should normally be avoided, although they have their uses. It is usually best to upgrade to a sealed pressurised system and use the "system" version, which has the sealed system components internally (and sometimes a pump). I am interested to know why the heating versions should be avoided. I would have thought they would be more efficient in my situation since the boiler heats the heatbank directly without the need for an additional heat exchanger in the tank or an expansion vessel anywhere. Use to reheat a direct heat bank is one of the "have their uses" noted above. I Installed one of these to an existing open vented system. The reason was to keep the old cast iron boiler in the garage as a back up. Throw a switch and the old boiler comes in and the new one is out. Full backup of heating and DHW. Does CORGI know about all this fitting work that you're doing? -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:14:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Christian McArdle" wrote in message .net... However, the "heating" versions should normally be avoided, although they have their uses. It is usually best to upgrade to a sealed pressurised system and use the "system" version, which has the sealed system components internally (and sometimes a pump). I am interested to know why the heating versions should be avoided. I would have thought they would be more efficient in my situation since the boiler heats the heatbank directly without the need for an additional heat exchanger in the tank or an expansion vessel anywhere. Use to reheat a direct heat bank is one of the "have their uses" noted above. I Installed one of these to an existing open vented system. The reason was to keep the old cast iron boiler in the garage as a back up. Throw a switch and the old boiler comes in and the new one is out. Full backup of heating and DHW. Does CORGI know about all this fitting work that you're doing? Not their business. |
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:04:40 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
e. I Installed one of these to an existing open vented system. The reason was to keep the old cast iron boiler in the garage as a back up. Throw a switch and the old boiler comes in and the new one is out. Full backup of heating and DHW. Does CORGI know about all this fitting work that you're doing? Not their business. Ah so you do have a CORGI card for your professional fitting? .. or is it that you are not professional or breaking the law? -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:04:40 -0000, "IMM" wrote: e. I Installed one of these to an existing open vented system. The reason was to keep the old cast iron boiler in the garage as a back up. Throw a switch and the old boiler comes in and the new one is out. Full backup of heating and DHW. Does CORGI know about all this fitting work that you're doing? Not their business. Ah so you do have a CORGI card for your professional fitting? Everything I do is ultra professional. .. or is it that you are not professional or breaking the law? The most professional of professional. Not breaking the law. |
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:47:57 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:04:40 -0000, "IMM" wrote: e. I Installed one of these to an existing open vented system. The reason was to keep the old cast iron boiler in the garage as a back up. Throw a switch and the old boiler comes in and the new one is out. Full backup of heating and DHW. Does CORGI know about all this fitting work that you're doing? Not their business. Ah so you do have a CORGI card for your professional fitting? Everything I do is ultra professional. .. or is it that you are not professional or breaking the law? The most professional of professional. Not breaking the law. By definition you are...... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:47:57 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:04:40 -0000, "IMM" wrote: e. I Installed one of these to an existing open vented system. The reason was to keep the old cast iron boiler in the garage as a back up. Throw a switch and the old boiler comes in and the new one is out. Full backup of heating and DHW. Does CORGI know about all this fitting work that you're doing? Not their business. Ah so you do have a CORGI card for your professional fitting? Everything I do is ultra professional. .. or is it that you are not professional or breaking the law? The most professional of professional. Not breaking the law. By definition you are...... I said "not breaking the law". And not a bit of plastic pipe in sight. Fabulous! |
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:50:48 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message I said "not breaking the law". And not a bit of plastic pipe in sight. Fabulous! Thank goodness for that. At least it's one cock up possibility less for you..... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:50:48 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message I said "not breaking the law". And not a bit of plastic pipe in sight. Fabulous! Thank goodness for that. At least it's one cock up possibility less for you..... Exactly. The likes of Speedfit fittings can't fail. |
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:02:14 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:50:48 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message I said "not breaking the law". And not a bit of plastic pipe in sight. Fabulous! Thank goodness for that. At least it's one cock up possibility less for you..... Exactly. The likes of Speedfit fittings can't fail. They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:02:14 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:50:48 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message I said "not breaking the law". And not a bit of plastic pipe in sight. Fabulous! Thank goodness for that. At least it's one cock up possibility less for you..... Exactly. The likes of Speedfit fittings can't fail. They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ Being inexperienced at pies and life in gerneral , I can a assure my dear chap they fail on a regular basis. Sad but true. Now rip all that suff out you put in your house ASAP. |
They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........
Now rip all that suff out you put in your house ASAP. Why would he need to do that? You didn't use a hacksaw did you Andy? Christian. |
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:13:48 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:02:14 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:50:48 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message I said "not breaking the law". And not a bit of plastic pipe in sight. Fabulous! Thank goodness for that. At least it's one cock up possibility less for you..... Exactly. The likes of Speedfit fittings can't fail. They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ Being inexperienced at pies and life in gerneral , I can a assure my dear chap they fail on a regular basis. We know about your inexperience, but this sentence is incoherent even for you. Have you been on the sauce already? -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message t... They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ Now rip all that suff out you put in your house ASAP. Why would he need to do that? You didn't use a hacksaw did you Andy? Probably an axe. Or was it his £1000 Makita chop saw. |
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:13:48 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:02:14 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:50:48 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message I said "not breaking the law". And not a bit of plastic pipe in sight. Fabulous! Thank goodness for that. At least it's one cock up possibility less for you..... Exactly. The likes of Speedfit fittings can't fail. They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ Being inexperienced at pipes and life in gerneral , I can assure you my dear chap they fail on a regular basis. We know about your inexperience, but this sentence is incoherent even for you. Have you been on the sauce already? Uh! |
Why would he need to do that? You didn't use a hacksaw did you Andy?
Probably an axe. Or was it his £1000 Makita chop saw. Well, either would probably produce a better cut with less swarf than a hacksaw. Christian. |
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:21:39 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote: They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ Now rip all that suff out you put in your house ASAP. Why would he need to do that? You didn't use a hacksaw did you Andy? Christian. Definitely not. I always read the instructions and am not an armature in a tutu. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"Andy Hall" wrote
| "IMM" wrote: | I said "not breaking the law". And not a bit of plastic pipe | in sight. Fabulous! | Thank goodness for that. At least it's one cock up possibility | less for you..... Be fair, IMM needs all the cock up possibilities going if he's to have any form of sex life Owain |
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message . net... Why would he need to do that? You didn't use a hacksaw did you Andy? Probably an axe. Or was it his £1000 Makita chop saw. Well, either would probably produce a better cut with less swarf than a hacksaw. The axe? |
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:21:39 -0000, "Christian McArdle" wrote: They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ Now rip all that suff out you put in your house ASAP. Why would he need to do that? You didn't use a hacksaw did you Andy? Christian. Definitely not. I always read the instructions You started from the wrong page. |
"Owain" wrote in message ... "Andy Hall" wrote | "IMM" wrote: | I said "not breaking the law". And not a bit of plastic pipe | in sight. Fabulous! | Thank goodness for that. At least it's one cock up possibility | less for you..... Be fair, IMM needs all the cock up possibilities going if he's to have any form of sex life Wow! |
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:38:44 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:21:39 -0000, "Christian McArdle" wrote: They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ Now rip all that suff out you put in your house ASAP. Why would he need to do that? You didn't use a hacksaw did you Andy? Christian. Definitely not. I always read the instructions You started from the wrong page. How would you know? You can't write coherently, probably can read, but not to understand it and otherwise cut and paste. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:38:44 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:21:39 -0000, "Christian McArdle" wrote: They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ Now rip all that suff out you put in your house ASAP. Why would he need to do that? You didn't use a hacksaw did you Andy? Christian. Definitely not. I always read the instructions You started from the wrong page. How would you know? It is obvious. |
IMM wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:21:39 -0000, "Christian McArdle" wrote: They don't anyway if you follow the instructions........ Now rip all that suff out you put in your house ASAP. Why would he need to do that? You didn't use a hacksaw did you Andy? Christian. Definitely not. I always read the instructions You started from the wrong page. Better than starting in the wrong book. |
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