I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

Don

In article ,
Don wrote:
or will a masonry drill go through the metal as well?

No.

--
*I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Don wrote:
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

This can be difficult as most masonry drills will be blunted by trying
to drill through metal with them and a metal drilling bit will be
blunted when you hit the concrete flags under the flange.

Can you get a little clearance between the flange and the concrete,
with a crowbar underneath the flange for example? If so lift the
flange with the crowbar and put a sliver of wood or something in the
gap. Then drill the hole in the flange with an ordinary HS drill
doing your best to stop when it's through the metal so that it
doesn't hit the concrete. Then drill the hole in the concrete with a
masonry drill.

Next time drill the holes in the flanges before installation! :-)

There are 'universal' drills which are supposed to be able to drill
through all sorts of materials, one of these might be an easier
solution to your problem if you can get one in the size that you want.

--
Chris Green

"Don" wrote in message
...
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

Don

If you have an sds drill then just use an ordinary concrete drilling bit,
the flanges I have seen on greenhouses are so thin that an sds drill will go
through with no problem. In an ideal world you should drill the flange with
an HSS drill then the paving slab with a masonry type, but the real world
just whack it through, unless the flange is thick you won't hurt the drill
bit at all.

mrcheerful

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 10:52:46 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Don wrote:
or will a masonry drill go through the metal as well?

No.

Oh. Thanks.

Don

On 2 Nov 2004 11:16:38 GMT, wrote:

Don wrote:
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

This can be difficult as most masonry drills will be blunted by trying
to drill through metal with them and a metal drilling bit will be
blunted when you hit the concrete flags under the flange.

Can you get a little clearance between the flange and the concrete,
with a crowbar underneath the flange for example? If so lift the
flange with the crowbar and put a sliver of wood or something in the
gap. Then drill the hole in the flange with an ordinary HS drill
doing your best to stop when it's through the metal so that it
doesn't hit the concrete. Then drill the hole in the concrete with a
masonry drill.

Next time drill the holes in the flanges before installation! :-)

There are 'universal' drills which are supposed to be able to drill
through all sorts of materials, one of these might be an easier
solution to your problem if you can get one in the size that you want.

I can see now that the holes should have been drilled in the base flange
first. The author of the erection instructions obviously didn't. I shall
take the glass out of the walls to reduce weight and follow your advice
of putting a sliver of wood under the base. Thank you.

Don

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:24:55 GMT, "mrcheerful
.." wrote:

"Don" wrote in message
.. .
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

Don

If you have an sds drill then just use an ordinary concrete drilling bit,
the flanges I have seen on greenhouses are so thin that an sds drill will go
through with no problem. In an ideal world you should drill the flange with
an HSS drill then the paving slab with a masonry type, but the real world
just whack it through, unless the flange is thick you won't hurt the drill
bit at all.

mrcheerful

I don't have an SDS drill (not even sure what that is) so will insert a
sliver of wood between the base and concrete and use both types of bit
as suggested by Chris Green. Thanks.

Don

"Don" wrote in message
...
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags
below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go
through
the metal as well?

Or drill the slab just inboard of the flange and use a "penny washer"
(aka repair washer) big enough to clamp the flange. Doesn't damage the
galvanising, and easier to get the drill vertical.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby

mrcheerful . wrote:

"Don" wrote in message
...
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

Don

If you have an sds drill then just use an ordinary concrete drilling bit,
the flanges I have seen on greenhouses are so thin that an sds drill will go
through with no problem. In an ideal world you should drill the flange with
an HSS drill then the paving slab with a masonry type, but the real world
just whack it through, unless the flange is thick you won't hurt the drill
bit at all.

If the flange is really thin it may be possible to punch a hole in it
with a nail or some such. As long as there's a bit of a hole a
masonry drill will probably survive.

Push hard on the masonry drill to prevent it just spinning on the
metal and getting hot, that's what will destroy it.

--
Chris Green

Even if the same drill could be used for both, wouldn't you want a
smaller diameter hole in the flange, given that you'll presumably be
using some sort of ragbolt (or whatever they're called) or a plug
in the concrete?

Jon.

Don wrote:

I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

Don

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:44:10 -0000, "Autolycus"
wrote:


"Don" wrote in message
.. .
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags
below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go
through
the metal as well?

Or drill the slab just inboard of the flange and use a "penny washer"
(aka repair washer) big enough to clamp the flange. Doesn't damage the
galvanising, and easier to get the drill vertical.

That would be great, but I didn't mention that the flange has a lip on
it to give the base added strength :-(
--
Don

On 2 Nov 2004 13:51:13 GMT, wrote:

"Don" wrote in message
...
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

Don

If you have an sds drill then just use an ordinary concrete drilling bit,
the flanges I have seen on greenhouses are so thin that an sds drill will go
through with no problem. In an ideal world you should drill the flange with
an HSS drill then the paving slab with a masonry type, but the real world
just whack it through, unless the flange is thick you won't hurt the drill
bit at all.

If the flange is really thin it may be possible to punch a hole in it
with a nail or some such. As long as there's a bit of a hole a
masonry drill will probably survive.

Push hard on the masonry drill to prevent it just spinning on the
metal and getting hot, that's what will destroy it.

I've done one hole successfully using the sliver of wood method. The
flanges (top & bottom) have lips on them for extra strength which made
it difficult to hold the drill upright. The steel is far to thick to
punch a hole in. Isn't there a way to stop the drill skidding about by
sticking a piece of duct tape or something over the area to be drilled?

I can see that I will have trouble in getting the screws in as well.
I've been provided with 10 x 2" wood screws & rawl plugs to be placed
three each side of the 8' x 6' base and two each end. Since I can't
budge the greenhouse with just the 3mm toughened glass in the roof. I
can't imagine the wind shifting it with the side grass fitted as well.
I'm wondering with there isn't a heck of a lot of overkill here.

Don

Don wrote:


I've done one hole successfully using the sliver of wood method. The
flanges (top & bottom) have lips on them for extra strength which made
it difficult to hold the drill upright. The steel is far to thick to
punch a hole in. Isn't there a way to stop the drill skidding about by
sticking a piece of duct tape or something over the area to be drilled?

Duct tape - no. Nice hard pointed punch, heavy hammer (lump hammer
perfect), one strong blow. Result: dent, deformation, "drill settles
here" feature.

I can see that I will have trouble in getting the screws in as well.
I've been provided with 10 x 2" wood screws & rawl plugs to be placed
three each side of the 8' x 6' base and two each end. Since I can't
budge the greenhouse with just the 3mm toughened glass in the roof. I
can't imagine the wind shifting it with the side grass fitted as well.
I'm wondering with there isn't a heck of a lot of overkill here.

Wind is quite energetic when it blows hard; and the slab side of a
greenhouse will catch it full on should the wind blow from the right
(wrong!) direction. Your greenhouse mfr specifies the ground fixings to
allow for strong wind from said direction with greenhouse unscreened by
trees or anything else close by. You may as well fix the damn thing down
good and strong according to the mfrs calculations - you'll feel pretty
daft if the thing does tip over next time we get a Michael Fish blowing
up from the sou'west ;-) 2" deep screws doesn't strike me as being any
kind of "overkill" - if it were me I'd be tempted to use frame fixings
or longer screws, if anything!

Stefek

In article , "Don"
says...
snip
I've done one hole successfully using the sliver of wood method. The
flanges (top & bottom) have lips on them for extra strength which made
it difficult to hold the drill upright. The steel is far to thick to
punch a hole in. Isn't there a way to stop the drill skidding about by
sticking a piece of duct tape or something over the area to be drilled?

Hefty whack with a centre punch.

I can see that I will have trouble in getting the screws in as well.
I've been provided with 10 x 2" wood screws & rawl plugs

So you'll have to drill oversize holes to get the plugs in, and fit
washers on the screws.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:07:45 +0000, Stefek Zaba
wrote:

Don wrote:


I've done one hole successfully using the sliver of wood method. The
flanges (top & bottom) have lips on them for extra strength which made
it difficult to hold the drill upright. The steel is far to thick to
punch a hole in. Isn't there a way to stop the drill skidding about by
sticking a piece of duct tape or something over the area to be drilled?

Duct tape - no. Nice hard pointed punch, heavy hammer (lump hammer
perfect), one strong blow. Result: dent, deformation, "drill settles
here" feature.

I can see that I will have trouble in getting the screws in as well.
I've been provided with 10 x 2" wood screws & rawl plugs to be placed
three each side of the 8' x 6' base and two each end. Since I can't
budge the greenhouse with just the 3mm toughened glass in the roof. I
can't imagine the wind shifting it with the side grass fitted as well.
I'm wondering with there isn't a heck of a lot of overkill here.

Wind is quite energetic when it blows hard; and the slab side of a
greenhouse will catch it full on should the wind blow from the right
(wrong!) direction. Your greenhouse mfr specifies the ground fixings to
allow for strong wind from said direction with greenhouse unscreened by
trees or anything else close by. You may as well fix the damn thing down
good and strong according to the mfrs calculations - you'll feel pretty
daft if the thing does tip over next time we get a Michael Fish blowing
up from the sou'west ;-) 2" deep screws doesn't strike me as being any
kind of "overkill" - if it were me I'd be tempted to use frame fixings
or longer screws, if anything!

Stefek

It's that one strong blow with the lump hammer that worries me! But you
are right in what you say. It would be too much of a risk, even though
Michael Fish has retired.

Don.

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:27:23 -0000, Rob Morley
wrote:

In article , "Don"
says...
snip
I've done one hole successfully using the sliver of wood method. The
flanges (top & bottom) have lips on them for extra strength which made
it difficult to hold the drill upright. The steel is far to thick to
punch a hole in. Isn't there a way to stop the drill skidding about by
sticking a piece of duct tape or something over the area to be drilled?

Hefty whack with a centre punch.

I can see that I will have trouble in getting the screws in as well.
I've been provided with 10 x 2" wood screws & rawl plugs

So you'll have to drill oversize holes to get the plugs in, and fit
washers on the screws.

I shall do both. Thanks.

Don.

"Don" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:44:10 -0000, "Autolycus"
wrote:


"Don" wrote in message
. ..
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to
anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags
below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through
the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go
through
the metal as well?

Or drill the slab just inboard of the flange and use a "penny washer"
(aka repair washer) big enough to clamp the flange. Doesn't damage
the
galvanising, and easier to get the drill vertical.

That would be great, but I didn't mention that the flange has a lip on
it to give the base added strength :-(

Ah, you need the Mk II special version then: a short length of something
vaguely channel section, inverted so that one leg reaches over the lip,
and the other bears on the concrete, drilled for the screw. I'd draw
it, but ASCII art is beyond me at the best of times, and when your
keyboard can't manage one of those "not" things (vertical bar) it's not
even the best of times.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby best of times.

In article , "Autolycus"
says...

"Don" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:44:10 -0000, "Autolycus"
wrote:


"Don" wrote in message
. ..
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to
anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags
below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through
the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go
through
the metal as well?

Or drill the slab just inboard of the flange and use a "penny washer"
(aka repair washer) big enough to clamp the flange. Doesn't damage
the
galvanising, and easier to get the drill vertical.

That would be great, but I didn't mention that the flange has a lip on
it to give the base added strength :-(

Ah, you need the Mk II special version then: a short length of something
vaguely channel section, inverted so that one leg reaches over the lip,
and the other bears on the concrete, drilled for the screw. I'd draw
it, but ASCII art is beyond me at the best of times, and when your
keyboard can't manage one of those "not" things (vertical bar) it's not
even the best of times.



__ __
+--------\ || /-------+
| _______| |______ |
| | | | _ | |
| | | | | | | |
| | | | | |__|_|_______
|_| | | |______________
==================| |=======================

"Don" wrote in message
...
megasnip

I can see that I will have trouble in getting the screws in as well.
I've been provided with 10 x 2" wood screws & rawl plugs to be placed
three each side of the 8' x 6' base and two each end. Since I can't
budge the greenhouse with just the 3mm toughened glass in the roof. I
can't imagine the wind shifting it with the side grass fitted as well.
I'm wondering with there isn't a heck of a lot of overkill here.

Don

If you have an inwards facing flange all the way round can you not lay
paving slabs or whatever on top of the flange to anchor it down without
screwing ?

AWEM

wrote in message ...
Don wrote:
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

This can be difficult as most masonry drills will be blunted by trying
to drill through metal with them and a metal drilling bit will be
blunted when you hit the concrete flags under the flange.


Just buy a stock of cheap HSS bits and use them to drill the flange,
then a masonry bit for the concrete. When one HSS is too blunt to use
anymore (from hitting the concrete) use another...

MBQ

In article , "MBQ"
says...
wrote in message ...
Don wrote:
I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

This can be difficult as most masonry drills will be blunted by trying
to drill through metal with them and a metal drilling bit will be
blunted when you hit the concrete flags under the flange.


Just buy a stock of cheap HSS bits and use them to drill the flange,
then a masonry bit for the concrete. When one HSS is too blunt to use
anymore (from hitting the concrete) use another...

Could always sharpen it.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:11:58 +0000, Jon Myatt
wrote:

Don wrote:

I have just finished erecting my new greenhouse and now have to anchor
it to the concrete flags on which it stands. This involves drilling
through the galvanised flange of the base into the concrete flags below.
What kind of bit do I need in my drill? A metal bit to go through the
metal and then a masonry bit thereon, or will a masonry drill go through
the metal as well?

Don

Even if the same drill could be used for both, wouldn't you want a
smaller diameter hole in the flange, given that you'll presumably be
using some sort of ragbolt (or whatever they're called) or a plug
in the concrete?

Jon.

The greenhouse manufacturer provided 2" wood screws and rawl plugs which
required a 7mm bit, so that is what I've used. I borrowed a SDS hammer
drill with what I was told was an all purpose bit. This went through the
metal flange into the 2' x 3' x 2" concrete flags with no bother at all.
Although the galvanised screws have larger heads than the 7mm hole I
think I'll get some washers under them to spread the load.

Thank you to all the good folk who have given me advice here on
uk.d-i-y. I an well pleased with my greenhouse, now that it's up.

Don

In article , "Jon Myatt"
says...
Even if the same drill could be used for both, wouldn't you want a
smaller diameter hole in the flange, given that you'll presumably be
using some sort of ragbolt (or whatever they're called) or a plug
in the concrete?

Then how do you get the plug through the smaller hole?

On 2 Nov 2004 Stefek Zaba wrote:

Wind is quite energetic when it blows hard; and the slab side of a
greenhouse will catch it full on should the wind blow from the right
(wrong!) direction. ...

You can say that again! In the gales back in 1987 (iirc) my mother's
greenhouse took off, flew over a 6' high hedge and ended up in a field.
I still have some bits of aluminium from it.

--
Richard Porter
Mail to username ricp at domain minijem.plus.com
"You can't have Windows without pains."

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:59:22 GMT, Richard Porter
wrote:

You can say that again! In the gales back in 1987 (iirc) my mother's
greenhouse took off, flew over a 6' high hedge and ended up in a field.

My parents live up in the cabbage-belt of West Lancs. I think their
local record for a flying greenhouse is about 1/4 mile. If a
polytunnel takes off, they land somewhere in the Irish sea.


--
Smert' spamionam