|
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Hi All
Does anyone know of a source for single glazed, timber framed windows. I am looking for one approx 80cm wide by 120cm tall, perhaps like this ________ | | | | |________| | | | | | | | | | | |________| with the top portion hinged at the top. If available to order over the web, then even better... TIA Matt |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Does anyone know of a source for single glazed, timber framed windows.
I presume this is for a shed or something? It would be illegal to install in a house, except in some specific cases. Christian. |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Christian McArdle wrote:
Does anyone know of a source for single glazed, timber framed windows. I presume this is for a shed or something? It would be illegal to install in a house, except in some specific cases. No, its not. Provided the insulation is up to scratch. A fully triple glazed conservatory will average out at a U value of about 1.8. A fully insulated wall with a 10% window area of SG glass will average out at 0.5 or so. You work out which is better on total thermal loss...and fortunately the BCO are also aware. You just have to do the calculations to prove it. Note that no conservatory OUGHT to be allowed under he rules at all, - they only slip through on teh 'elemental method' Christian. |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
I presume this is for a shed or something? It would be illegal to install
in a house, except in some specific cases. No, its not. Provided the insulation is up to scratch. That was one of the specific cases I had in mind. However, that's a lot of calculations. You would have to ensure that the heating efficiency and insulation of the entire house exceeded modern specifications to the extent that there is some slack to allow single glazing. Given that the house probably doesn't have such a specification unless built in the last year or two, you would then need to rectify this. (Not a bad thing, in itself, but a little excessive to just install a window). It would almost certainly be simpler and cheaper to install a BS double glazed window, which can look fantastic, as my parent's did with their sashes. You have to look very closely to see that they are double glazed. Note that no conservatory OUGHT to be allowed under he rules at all, - they only slip through on teh 'elemental method' They do no such thing. The elemental method requires 25% glazing. They slip through on a special exemption, provided some rules are followed such as independent heating controls (preferably no heating at all) and external grade separation from the house (i.e. they must be separated from the house such that they are considered exterior for the house calculations including, normally, double glazed windows and wall insulation, depending on the method used). Christian. |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message et... Does anyone know of a source for single glazed, timber framed windows. I presume this is for a shed or something? It would be illegal to install in a house, except in some specific cases. Christian. Maybe the house is listed? |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
I presume this is for a shed or something? It would be illegal to
install in a house, except in some specific cases. Maybe the house is listed? That's one of the other specific cases. However, the listed building consent is likely to require a bit more than finding any old window off the internet. You probably have to spend 600 times the normal price to have one carved out of 600 year old wood using only a spatula by the only person certificated to do it, who lives in a Pacific island commune with a ship once a year. Christian. |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message et... I presume this is for a shed or something? It would be illegal to install in a house, except in some specific cases. Maybe the house is listed? That's one of the other specific cases. However, the listed building consent is likely to require a bit more than finding any old window off the internet. You probably have to spend 600 times the normal price to have one carved out of 600 year old wood using only a spatula by the only person certificated to do it, who lives in a Pacific island commune with a ship once a year. Christian. You're probably right, but for what it's worth my house is listed with UPVC DGUs and the conservation officer intimated he'd be happy with more-or-less any plain timber-framed single glazed units as replacements. Of course, what he says now, and what happens if/when I apply for LBC could be entirely different... |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
You're probably right, but for what it's worth my house is listed with
UPVC DGUs and the conservation officer intimated he'd be happy with more-or-less any plain timber-framed single glazed units as replacements. Presumably anything is an improvement over uPVC. Except that listing might be for the as-is condition. I wouldn't be surprised if they made you manufacture the exact pattern of 1970's uPVC it has now when you come to replace, even if it was a seventeenth century cottage... Christian. |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message et... You're probably right, but for what it's worth my house is listed with UPVC DGUs and the conservation officer intimated he'd be happy with more-or-less any plain timber-framed single glazed units as replacements. Presumably anything is an improvement over uPVC. Except that listing might be for the as-is condition. I wouldn't be surprised if they made you manufacture the exact pattern of 1970's uPVC it has now when you come to replace, even if it was a seventeenth century cottage... Christian. As I said, what he says now, and what he says if it comes to an actual application... Neil |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Neil Jones wrote
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message et... I presume this is for a shed or something? It would be illegal to install in a house, except in some specific cases. Maybe the house is listed? That's one of the other specific cases. However, the listed building consent is likely to require a bit more than finding any old window off the internet. You probably have to spend 600 times the normal price to have one carved out of 600 year old wood using only a spatula by the only person certificated to do it, who lives in a Pacific island commune with a ship once a year. Christian. You're probably right, but for what it's worth my house is listed with UPVC DGUs and the conservation officer intimated he'd be happy with more-or-less any plain timber-framed single glazed units as replacements. Of course, what he says now, and what happens if/when I apply for LBC could be entirely different... I can see why he said single glazed. The standard double-glazed timber windows from the likes of Magnet and Jeld-Wen are hideous - the timber sections are even wider than uPVC and the glass areas are minute. Over the past 20 years I've made new single glazed softwood casement windows to match the original 1920's windows for all the windows in my house except for the Bathroom. I used to get standard Ovolo moulded sash sections (for single glazing) at the local timber merchants, but when I went to buy the timber for the bathroom window I discovered they are no longer available, thanks to the new Building Regs. I ended up buying a standard window with sealed units, but this was a BIG mistake - it looks totally out of keeping with all the other windows. Regs or not, it's coming out again as soon as I can machine the timber and make a replacement. Peter |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Tom wrote:
Hi All Does anyone know of a source for single glazed, timber framed windows. I am looking for one approx 80cm wide by 120cm tall, perhaps like this ________ | | | | |________| | | | | | | | | | | |________| with the top portion hinged at the top. If available to order over the web, then even better... TIA Matt For what it's worth we've recently replaced loads of windows in our house with sereral different types. Here's a summary of how it went. 1 Cheapest available timber windows ( from Bristol Timber Store) came in standard sizes but have large rebate to take building regs approved double glazed units. By the time you've ordered and fitted the glass it works out about £200 /window. By FAR the ugliest and obviously poor quality. Ours were six pane windows and there is a minimum charge for dg units which made them much more expensive than your two pane one would be. 2 Made to measure units by a local carpenter (to fit existing odd size openings) with double glazed units and "stuck on" glazing bars and dividers in the glazing. Looks like single glazed except on very close inspection but much better insulated. Very happy with these but cost about £500 each complete. 3 Made to measure single glazed sash by a specialist sash window company. A complete replacement window and frame for the front of the house. It had to match an existing window and had very fine glazing bars with hand made mouldings. This window was VERY expensive at over £1000 fitted but looks absolutly fantastic and is identical to the one it replaced except it isn't rotten and works properly. It's well draught proofed with hidden strips and doesn't rattle like all the old sashes. Nick PS. Can't recommend Bristol Timber store as they messed up my order so it took 13 weeks to get the windows which was three times as long as it took to get the custom made ones. I can happily recommend the carpenter in situation 2 above if you're near Bath |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
"Neil Jones" wrote in message ...
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message Presumably anything is an improvement over uPVC. Except that listing might be for the as-is condition. I wouldn't be surprised if they made you manufacture the exact pattern of 1970's uPVC it has now when you come to replace, even if it was a seventeenth century cottage... Is it ok to replace say Vic sash windows with other original Vic sash windows then? They would be single glaed of course, and come undraughtproofed, though draughtproofing isnt too hard on those. Regards, NT |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Thanks all
"Tom" wrote in message om... Hi All Does anyone know of a source for single glazed, timber framed windows. I am looking for one approx 80cm wide by 120cm tall, perhaps like this ________ | | | | |________| | | | | | | | | | | |________| with the top portion hinged at the top. If available to order over the web, then even better... TIA Matt |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
N. Thornton wrote:
"Neil Jones" wrote in message ... "Christian McArdle" wrote in message Presumably anything is an improvement over uPVC. Except that listing might be for the as-is condition. I wouldn't be surprised if they made you manufacture the exact pattern of 1970's uPVC it has now when you come to replace, even if it was a seventeenth century cottage... Is it ok to replace say Vic sash windows with other original Vic sash windows then? They would be single glaed of course, and come undraughtproofed, though draughtproofing isnt too hard on those. Regards, NT The answer is it depends. If you're listed then yes. If the original windows are still in situ then you can have them "restored" even if this means replacing all of the original material. If the windows have been replaced with modern ones you can't go back UNLESS you find the origial ones at the end of the garden in which case you can put those back in and restore them. Original or restored windows can be single glazed but new ones must be double glazed and with low e glass. Thus spoke my BCO Nick PS Amazingly my carpenter 'found' my old windows at the back of his workshop and was able to restore them to good as new condition!! |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
"Nick Brooks" wrote in message ... Thus spoke my BCO Nick PS Amazingly my carpenter 'found' my old windows at the back of his workshop and was able to restore them to good as new condition!! What luck! I imagine he's probably got an enormous workshop, full of the old windows that were installed in all the houses in the vicinity :-) |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Nick Brooks wrote in message ...
For what it's worth we've recently replaced loads of windows in our house with sereral different types. Here's a summary of how it went. 1 Cheapest available timber windows ( from Bristol Timber Store) came in standard sizes but have large rebate to take building regs approved double glazed units. By the time you've ordered and fitted the glass it works out about £200 /window. By FAR the ugliest and obviously poor quality. Ours were six pane windows and there is a minimum charge for dg units which made them much more expensive than your two pane one would be. 2 Made to measure units by a local carpenter (to fit existing odd size openings) with double glazed units and "stuck on" glazing bars and dividers in the glazing. Looks like single glazed except on very close inspection but much better insulated. Very happy with these but cost about £500 each complete. 3 Made to measure single glazed sash by a specialist sash window company. A complete replacement window and frame for the front of the house. It had to match an existing window and had very fine glazing bars with hand made mouldings. This window was VERY expensive at over £1000 fitted but looks absolutly fantastic and is identical to the one it replaced except it isn't rotten and works properly. It's well draught proofed with hidden strips and doesn't rattle like all the old sashes. Makes me think... for £500 a go I'd probably consider making my own. Sash windows dont look excessively complex, standard carpentry skills should be adequate I would expect. Anyone here done that? Regards, NT |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Arent I silly, Peter just said he had. Why dont more of us do it?
Regards, NT |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
N. Thornton wrote
Arent I silly, Peter just said he had. Why dont more of us do it? And to follow my previous post, I've discovered that Travis Perkins still sell all the mouldings needed for making new softwood sash and casement windows, but they only keep them in stock at certain branches and will order it in for you. They also do simple softwood cill sections, but in my case I needed to match the original 6 x 3 Oak cills, so I had to have that machined specially. You're right, it doesn't need any special skills to make new windows but like always, I made few mistakes before I sussed it. But it's a lot more fun than plastering :o). I started out using an old hand moulding plane but soon bought my first router and Ovolo cutter. I also invested in a bench pillar drill with a morticer attachment and a pair of long sash cramps. The belt sander was pretty vital too. Peter |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Peter Taylor wrote:
N. Thornton wrote Arent I silly, Peter just said he had. Why dont more of us do it? And to follow my previous post, I've discovered that Travis Perkins still sell all the mouldings needed for making new softwood sash and casement windows, but they only keep them in stock at certain branches and will order it in for you. They also do simple softwood cill sections, but in my case I needed to match the original 6 x 3 Oak cills, so I had to have that machined specially. You're right, it doesn't need any special skills to make new windows but like always, I made few mistakes before I sussed it. But it's a lot more fun than plastering :o). I started out using an old hand moulding plane but soon bought my first router and Ovolo cutter. I also invested in a bench pillar drill with a morticer attachment and a pair of long sash cramps. The belt sander was pretty vital too. Peter I hope you're making more than one window otherwise it's going to be very expensive:- new router, cutter, pillar drill, morticer, sash cramps .. . . . . . . NB |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:28:12 +0100, Nick Brooks
wrote: Peter Taylor wrote: N. Thornton wrote Arent I silly, Peter just said he had. Why dont more of us do it? And to follow my previous post, I've discovered that Travis Perkins still sell all the mouldings needed for making new softwood sash and casement windows, but they only keep them in stock at certain branches and will order it in for you. They also do simple softwood cill sections, but in my case I needed to match the original 6 x 3 Oak cills, so I had to have that machined specially. You're right, it doesn't need any special skills to make new windows but like always, I made few mistakes before I sussed it. But it's a lot more fun than plastering :o). I started out using an old hand moulding plane but soon bought my first router and Ovolo cutter. I also invested in a bench pillar drill with a morticer attachment and a pair of long sash cramps. The belt sander was pretty vital too. I would not know where to get suitable timber. I certainly don't think you could use the kind of warped stuff that B&Q and the other sheds stock. I replaced the wooden frames of two of my Crittalls windows. However, I went to a Crittalls dealer (Lightfoot Windows) and bought the frame sections there. These were incredibly straight pieces of timber, accurately precut and morticed to size. Until recently I still had a couple of residual cills for a larger window that I eventually ended up reparing, not replacing, and these pieces were still as straight and true as the day I brought them back from the supplier. Where are you going to find timber like that? Oh, the new frames cost me roughly £32 each! (1 cill, 2 sides, and 1 header with drip groove per frame) MM |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Nick Brooks wrote
I hope you're making more than one window otherwise it's going to be very expensive:- new router, cutter, pillar drill, morticer, sash cramps Nick, please see my previous post where I said "Over the past 20 years I've made new single glazed softwood casement windows to match the original 1920's windows for all the windows in my house except for the Bathroom." I have made 7 new frames and 23 new casements.. Peter |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
Sash window info on my site at http://www.owdman.co.uk/joinery
Biggest problem is thin glazing bar with mouldings - for which you will not find a matching router cutter. I make my own spindle moulder cutters for perfect replica mouldings. You can get round the moulding prob by using a plain bevel instead of the moulding. This sounds unlikely but if the glazing bar is exactly the same dimension as original then from a distance the lack of moulding won't be noticed. e.g. a fine 14mm glazing bar with say 3mm flat between mouldings - retaining the 3mm between bevels looks very neat. Many windows were done without mouldings in this way but don't get noticed particularly. cheers Jacob |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
In article , jacob
writes Sash window info on my site at http://www.owdman.co.uk/joinery Biggest problem is thin glazing bar with mouldings - for which you will not find a matching router cutter. I make my own spindle moulder cutters for perfect replica mouldings. You can get round the moulding prob by using a plain bevel instead of the moulding. This sounds unlikely but if the glazing bar is exactly the same dimension as original then from a distance the lack of moulding won't be noticed. e.g. a fine 14mm glazing bar with say 3mm flat between mouldings - retaining the 3mm between bevels looks very neat. Many windows were done without mouldings in this way but don't get noticed particularly. Jacob, Are you back into manufacturing then? I haven't got round to renovating my windows yet, but if you're back in business I might consider it again! J. -- John Rouse |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
I'm no engineer but I think the prob with router cutters is that they
need to be accurately balanced due to being used at high rpm in a small machine, so making them is a skilled precision machining operation. I guess you'd start by turning the profile on a lathe, then cutting out the throats for the cutters, then back off the cutter edges. Whereas spindle moulder cutters operate at lower revs in a big sturdy machine which can tolerate some imbalance (not too much or the bearings suffer). So I make a pair of matching cutters using angle grinder for roughing out and 6inch bench grinder with various wheels for finishing off . Paired for balance but it is not essential for both cutters to be cutting exactly, i.e. one can be set back slightly to make setting up easier. This sounds a bit rough and ready but infact it's possible to make absolutely perfect matches of mouldings - identical to the eye that is, because you are doing them by eye. They are astonishingly cheap compared to router cutters and also endlessly adaptable, re-usable, reshapeable etc. cheers Jacob I havent tried it so I cant be sure, but it appears at first sight that it shouldnt be too hard to make various shapes of router cutting blade to fit a block. They would only be steel, not TCT, but should still do the job ok. How to do you carve a bit of steel to shape? angle grinder. Might sound crude, but if I can make good performance drill bits with nothing more than an angle grinder I would think its perfectly doable. A finer grinding wheel would be ideal for shaprneing it, but even there I've used the grinder and produced a sufficiently sharp edge to give a good result. Regards, NT |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
I'm no engineer but I think the prob with router cutters is that they
need to be accurately balanced due to being used at high rpm in a small machine, so making them is a skilled precision machining operation. I guess you'd start by turning the profile on a lathe, then cutting out the throats for the cutters, then back off the cutter edges. Whereas spindle moulder cutters operate at lower revs in a big sturdy machine which can tolerate some imbalance (not too much or the bearings suffer). So I make a pair of matching cutters using angle grinder for roughing out and 6inch bench grinder with various wheels for finishing off . Paired for balance but it is not essential for both cutters to be cutting exactly, i.e. one can be set back slightly to make setting up easier. This sounds a bit rough and ready but infact it's possible to make absolutely perfect matches of mouldings - identical to the eye that is, because you are doing them by eye. They are astonishingly cheap compared to router cutters and also endlessly adaptable, re-usable, reshapeable etc. cheers Jacob I havent tried it so I cant be sure, but it appears at first sight that it shouldnt be too hard to make various shapes of router cutting blade to fit a block. They would only be steel, not TCT, but should still do the job ok. How to do you carve a bit of steel to shape? angle grinder. Might sound crude, but if I can make good performance drill bits with nothing more than an angle grinder I would think its perfectly doable. A finer grinding wheel would be ideal for shaprneing it, but even there I've used the grinder and produced a sufficiently sharp edge to give a good result. Regards, NT |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
jacob wrote:
I'm no engineer but I think the prob with router cutters is that they need to be accurately balanced due to being used at high rpm in a small machine, so making them is a skilled precision machining operation. I guess you'd start by turning the profile on a lathe, then cutting out the throats for the cutters, then back off the cutter edges. Whereas spindle moulder cutters operate at lower revs in a big sturdy machine which can tolerate some imbalance (not too much or the bearings suffer). So I make a pair of matching cutters using angle grinder for roughing out and 6inch bench grinder with various wheels for finishing off . Paired for balance but it is not essential for both cutters to be cutting exactly, i.e. one can be set back slightly to make setting up easier. This sounds a bit rough and ready but infact it's possible to make absolutely perfect matches of mouldings - identical to the eye that is, because you are doing them by eye. They are astonishingly cheap compared to router cutters and also endlessly adaptable, re-usable, reshapeable etc. cheers Jacob I totally agree. I have worked in a spindle moulding shop, and that is exactly how its done. I havent tried it so I cant be sure, but it appears at first sight that it shouldnt be too hard to make various shapes of router cutting blade to fit a block. They would only be steel, not TCT, but should still do the job ok. How to do you carve a bit of steel to shape? angle grinder. Might sound crude, but if I can make good performance drill bits with nothing more than an angle grinder I would think its perfectly doable. A finer grinding wheel would be ideal for shaprneing it, but even there I've used the grinder and produced a sufficiently sharp edge to give a good result. Regards, NT |
Single Glazed, Timber Framed Windows
John
No sorry not yet. Got bogged down in chapel conversion - wife had proper job when I started but lost it so had to slow down, but had lost workshop at Via Gellia Mill. Then had to sell house and move into caravan behind chapel, then moved into temporary polythene tent inside chapel to avoid worst of winter i.e. long dark evenings with nothing to do but watch telly and drink . Oh its a hard life to be sure but conversion now going ahead in reasonably sized fits and starts. Will have own workshop in chapel soon but 1st job is 10 huge chapel windows - 4ft x 12ft high with round heads. After that who knows? I don't. cheers Jacob Are you back into manufacturing then? I haven't got round to renovating my windows yet, but if you're back in business I might consider it again! J. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:08 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter