I've just found out that I don't need to buy a balanced flue stove as I have
a chimney (conventional flue). However in the brochure it uses the term
suitably lined. The chimney is about 70 years old, brick, and is lined with
cement (probably lime) which is now starting to flake off in places. The
original chimney stack has been replaced with a aluminium pipe and cowl.

Now I may well fit the stove myself, as it looks pretty straight forward, or
I may pay someone. Either way I will get the work comissioned by a Corgi reg
person.

Bascially, I just need to know that if I buy this conventional flue model
stove (efel harmony 5), that I won't need to spend another £xxx amount
having the chimney specially lined.

It seems that I just need to stick a short length of stove flue pipe up the
chimney, and make sure it's got an airtight 'closure-plate', and then let
natural convection do the rest. Due to the small size of the stove (5kw
output), it appears that I don't need a ventiallation hole either.

Sorry for rambling.

Advice/comments

Jon

Bascially, I just need to know that if I buy this conventional flue model
stove (efel harmony 5), that I won't need to spend another £xxx amount
having the chimney specially lined.

One of the following websites will point you to a chimney sweep. The chimney
sweep with clean, test and repair your chimney to the required standard and
issue a chimney certificate that confirms that the flue is suitable for your
purposes. They will also state if you need to get the flue completely
relined.

www.chimneyworks.co.uk
www.guild-of-master-sweeps.co.uk
www.nace.org.uk
www.solidfuel.co.uk
www.nfa.org.uk

Due to the small size of the stove (5kw output), it appears that I don't
need
a ventiallation hole either.

Be careful, whatever the regs say, if you have no ventilation, then you die.
If you have leaky sash windows and gappy floorboards on display to the
underfloor void, then you won't have a problem. If you have sealed double
glazing and no draughts whatsoever, you'll get CO poisoning. Don't rely on
the gas fire's inbuilt CO detection. It may not work.

Christian.

Jon W wrote:

I've just found out that I don't need to buy a balanced flue stove as I have
a chimney (conventional flue). However in the brochure it uses the term
suitably lined. The chimney is about 70 years old, brick, and is lined with
cement (probably lime) which is now starting to flake off in places. The
original chimney stack has been replaced with a aluminium pipe and cowl.

If its that old IIRC you are permitted to use a flexible flue liner. If
you are in suffolk area I have some of this going begging.

Building regs will not allow use of an unlined flue for stoves. Period.



Now I may well fit the stove myself, as it looks pretty straight forward, or
I may pay someone. Either way I will get the work comissioned by a Corgi reg
person.

Bascially, I just need to know that if I buy this conventional flue model
stove (efel harmony 5), that I won't need to spend another £xxx amount
having the chimney specially lined.


You will. If BCO catches you. In any case its extremely stupid not to.
The linetrs - flexible ones - will noi be too expensive: Fitting is
harder as you tend to either have to haul them up to the pot or drop
them down fronm it. Probably need to remove pot and replace with cowl
anyway to sptop birds falling down. This means scaffolding or a brave
builder up top on the pot.



It seems that I just need to stick a short length of stove flue pipe up the
chimney, and make sure it's got an airtight 'closure-plate', and then let
natural convection do the rest. Due to the small size of the stove (5kw
output), it appears that I don't need a ventiallation hole either.


Illegal IIRC. Stove pipe yes, but into that flexible liner.

Check with online building regs, and pleaee, don't skimp on it. Or call
up BCO.

It will cost a lot - several hundred to have it done, maybe more. I
fited an old wood burnetr to me new house, and I was required to use
stainless steel double insulated liner EVEN THOUGH the flues were lined
with ceramic liners. Cost about a grand with labour. You won;t need to
go that far, but even so expect £500 and be grateful if its less.

Old chimenys seem to be reckoned tobe good from fire point ogf view -
hence the allowance of a single steel liner that gets very hot - but are
not deemed to be gas tight - and mostly they are not. CO poisoning is a
nasty way to die. Do it properly.

As far as ventialtion goes, you will need a little bit. Something like a
hit and miss cvent in the room is adequate.

Again, consult BCO before starting. Unless you reckoin you can keep them
out of the picture altogether.


BCO regs are very sane on fire and combustion appliances: I would stick
to the guidelines no matter what the cost, especially if you want your
insurance to stay valid.





Sorry for rambling.

Advice/comments

Jon

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Jon W wrote:

I've just found out that I don't need to buy a balanced flue stove as I
have
a chimney (conventional flue). However in the brochure it uses the term
suitably lined. The chimney is about 70 years old, brick, and is lined
with
cement (probably lime) which is now starting to flake off in places. The
original chimney stack has been replaced with a aluminium pipe and cowl.

If its that old IIRC you are permitted to use a flexible flue liner. If
you are in suffolk area I have some of this going begging.

Building regs will not allow use of an unlined flue for stoves. Period.



Now I may well fit the stove myself, as it looks pretty straight
forward, or
I may pay someone. Either way I will get the work comissioned by a Corgi
reg
person.

Bascially, I just need to know that if I buy this conventional flue
model
stove (efel harmony 5), that I won't need to spend another £xxx amount
having the chimney specially lined.


You will. If BCO catches you. In any case its extremely stupid not to.
The linetrs - flexible ones - will noi be too expensive: Fitting is
harder as you tend to either have to haul them up to the pot or drop
them down fronm it. Probably need to remove pot and replace with cowl
anyway to sptop birds falling down. This means scaffolding or a brave
builder up top on the pot.



It seems that I just need to stick a short length of stove flue pipe up
the
chimney, and make sure it's got an airtight 'closure-plate', and then
let
natural convection do the rest. Due to the small size of the stove (5kw
output), it appears that I don't need a ventiallation hole either.


Illegal IIRC. Stove pipe yes, but into that flexible liner.

Check with online building regs, and pleaee, don't skimp on it. Or call
up BCO.

It will cost a lot - several hundred to have it done, maybe more. I
fited an old wood burnetr to me new house, and I was required to use
stainless steel double insulated liner EVEN THOUGH the flues were lined
with ceramic liners. Cost about a grand with labour. You won;t need to
go that far, but even so expect £500 and be grateful if its less.

Old chimenys seem to be reckoned tobe good from fire point ogf view -
hence the allowance of a single steel liner that gets very hot - but are
not deemed to be gas tight - and mostly they are not. CO poisoning is a
nasty way to die. Do it properly.

As far as ventialtion goes, you will need a little bit. Something like a
hit and miss cvent in the room is adequate.

Again, consult BCO before starting. Unless you reckoin you can keep them
out of the picture altogether.


BCO regs are very sane on fire and combustion appliances: I would stick
to the guidelines no matter what the cost, especially if you want your
insurance to stay valid.





Sorry for rambling.

Advice/comments

Jon



Thanks, for that, very informative.

But does all that apply to a natural gas stove, if so it'll probably be
cheaper to get the balanced flu option. It's about £200 extra, but no
fannying around(sp) with chimney/flu liners or ventillation holes.

Jon

"Jon W" wrote in message ...
I've just found out that I don't need to buy a balanced flue stove as I have
a chimney (conventional flue). However in the brochure it uses the term
suitably lined. The chimney is about 70 years old, brick, and is lined with
cement (probably lime) which is now starting to flake off in places.

I'm investigating the same thing at the moment - looking for a Gas
stove to put into the fireplace in a london Terrace (probably 120
years old). I'm pretty certain we'd need the chimney relined (or more
likely a flue installed inside it).

I'm starting to wonder if we would be better getting a balanced flue
model and just venting it through the back of the chimney to the gap
between us and next door rather than getting a flue put up to roof
level. we could then just 'seal' the chimney. Fitting would
certainly be easier (and probably cheaper) - are there any
disadvantages?

I'm starting to wonder if we would be better getting a balanced flue
model and just venting it through the back of the chimney to the gap
between us and next door rather than getting a flue put up to roof
level. we could then just 'seal' the chimney. Fitting would
certainly be easier (and probably cheaper) - are there any
disadvantages?

Your neighbours might not want your gas combustion products in the shared
passageway? Apart from that, I can't see much of a problem. Indeed, they
have an advantage in not requiring additional room ventilation, which can
reduce energy efficiency.

Christian.

Jon W wrote:


But does all that apply to a natural gas stove, if so it'll probably be
cheaper to get the balanced flu option. It's about £200 extra, but no
fannying around(sp) with chimney/flu liners or ventillation holes.


It almost certainly would be, except prefer if at all possible to get
combustion products up high.

Call your BCO up and discuss. He will have accurate regs to hand.

Jon

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:22:04 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

If you have sealed double glazing and no draughts whatsoever, you'll
get CO poisoning. Don't rely on the gas fire's inbuilt CO detection.
It may not work.

Thought gas fires had oxygen sensors rather than CO. A fire will use
the oxygen from a room down to much lower levels than a human can
tolerate.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:40:34 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:22:04 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

If you have sealed double glazing and no draughts whatsoever, you'll
get CO poisoning. Don't rely on the gas fire's inbuilt CO detection.
It may not work.

Quite the primary lines of safety are correct combustion, adequate air
supply and a sound flue to remove products of combustion.

Thought gas fires had oxygen sensors rather than CO. A fire will use
the oxygen from a room down to much lower levels than a human can
tolerate.

This is a second line of defence, tha aim is not sense when there would be
insufficient oxygen to support life or combustion but to sense when there
has been some depletion of the oxygen enough to endanger life and turn the
fire off.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote:

.... aim is not sense when there would be
insufficient oxygen to support life ... but to sense when there
has been some depletion of the oxygen enough to endanger life ..

Ed. by removing the extra words, your sentence reads as above.

Frankly, I can't see what you were driving at...If life is endangered,
its insupportable?

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:52:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Frankly, I can't see what you were driving at...If life is
endangered, its insupportable?

'Tis a bit of mouthful but as O2 levels drop you will become
unconcious but if returned to normal O2 levels you'll recover. Your
life has been "endangered". If the O2 level continued to drop there
would become a point where you would die because there is not enough
O2 to support (your) life.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:10:26 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:52:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Frankly, I can't see what you were driving at...If life is
endangered, its insupportable?

'Tis a bit of mouthful but as O2 levels drop you will become
unconcious but if returned to normal O2 levels you'll recover. Your
life has been "endangered". If the O2 level continued to drop there
would become a point where you would die because there is not enough
O2 to support (your) life.

I expect the CO would get you first long before the lack of O2.
And before that you would probably say something like, it's
stuffy in here let's open the door/turn off the fire.

The device might help someone who is sleeping I suppose.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html