Help, am I poisioning myself
 

Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.

"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.


Since you can buy ready frozen ready cooked chicken there is no generic
reason. The dodgy bit is that you don't know how long the chicken has
lurked around and your home has probably got millions of germs in.

My advice would be to buy ready frozen and take some out each morning for
your sarnie, by the time you get to work the chicken has defrosted and yet
has kept the sandwich cool.

mrcheerful

"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.

Dunno! But, I've been doing this for years/decades ...
I buy large joints of beef, ham, pork (even chicken
ready cooked) then slice it and freeze it. I tend to
use 'Layering paper' which used to be available
everywhere but nowadays I can only seem to locate
from Lakeland. I slice the meat- place a layer of
the paper into a Tupperware-style container , repeat
until the box is full - then into the freezer.
IMHO, there's a ratio between the original size of
the 'joint' and the flavour of the meal. Little pieces
of meat don't quite have the taste of big pieces ... but
one can't eat all of the 'large pieces' at one meal.
There's also the marketing ploy of charging more pro-rata
for small pieces than larger.
The use of layering paper makes it easier to separate
a small quantity of slices from the box of frozen meat.
And of course the normal hygiene rules of scrubbed hands/
finger nails / knife / chopping board and storage container
apply.
Any way, it's never done me any har....... aargh!

--

Brian

Mick. wrote:
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work
all day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing
it to use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result
in food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.


As long as you don't leave it hanging around for too long (hours) before you
freeze it you'll be fine.

Si

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:59:02 +0100, "Mick."
wrote:

I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.

Strange DIY topic, but there you go!

My understanding (limited because I'm only competent to boil up a
couple of slices of toast) is that chicken and similar should not be
frozen then reheated. There are some microbes which I believe aren't
phased by freezing, and they multiply when unfrozen.

You could certainly be causing problems if I understand it correctly.
I'm sure my wife has mentioned this before now.

Andrew

Andrew McKay wrote:

Strange DIY topic, but there you go!

My understanding (limited because I'm only competent to boil up a
couple of slices of toast) is that chicken and similar should not be
frozen then reheated. There are some microbes which I believe aren't
phased by freezing, and they multiply when unfrozen.


There aren't many which survive cooking though, and food cooked in
supermarkets is [supposed to be] temp. checked to make sure the customers
don't die.

As long as it's cooled as quickly as possible (quite how you cool something
quickly at home I've never really understood though) he'll be fine.

Si

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:59:02 +0100, "Mick."
wrote:

Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.

I always understood it to be you can't refreeze chicken which has been
frozen ... unless of course you cook it first. Its the process of
defrosting meat which leads to the problem and repeated defrosting
exposes the bacteria to the right sort of temperature to reproduce to
large amounts without having had any culling done by way of exposure
to high heat.

Providing you cook the chicken properly you shouldn't have any
problems.

If it was making you "ill" then you'd be doing something wrong - and
you'd know about it if you were.

Sometimes raw chicken is marked as "not to be refrozen" as its spent
time already frozen.


--
Free stuff by post
http://www.freestuffbypost.co.uk

mogga wrote:

I always understood it to be you can't refreeze chicken which has been
frozen ...

These haven't been frozen.

Si

"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.

Rubbish.

As long as you're hygienic in handling the raw and cooked chicken and don't
allow cooked chicken to come into contact with raw chickn or drippings from
it you'll be OK.

You're still alive aren't you?

Mary

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:41:07 +0100, "Mungo \"two sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

mogga wrote:

I always understood it to be you can't refreeze chicken which has been
frozen ...

These haven't been frozen.


Then it shouldn't be a problem. :)


--
Free stuff by post
http://www.freestuffbypost.co.uk

"mrcheerful ." wrote in message
k...

"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it
to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.


Since you can buy ready frozen ready cooked chicken there is no generic
reason. The dodgy bit is that you don't know how long the chicken has
lurked around and your home has probably got millions of germs in.

My advice would be to buy ready frozen and take some out each morning for
your sarnie, by the time you get to work the chicken has defrosted and yet
has kept the sandwich cool.

mrcheerful

I looked at buying a package containing a few slices of ham
with the idea of 'putting in the sarnie'. Compared to buying a
big ham, boiling it and freezer-storing the slices : -
sliced ham == £60/Kg ; home sliced = £ 10/ Kg.
I can't afford to follow your advice ... :(
I can just afford to D-I-Y.

--

Brian

"Mick." wrote in message ...
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.

it sounds a good way to proceed. Freeze it as fast as you can after
purchase - don't let it sit around warm which is when the bacteria
multiply.

Robert

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...


As long as you're hygienic in handling the raw and cooked chicken and
don't allow cooked chicken to come into contact with raw chickn or
drippings from it you'll be OK.

You're still alive aren't you?

Mary

Thanks all very much!
I started doing it becouse of the cost difference of buying pre pakged
chicken,
and I do agree it tast better than very thin slices,
Mick.

"mrcheerful ." wrote in message . uk...
"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.


Since you can buy ready frozen ready cooked chicken there is no generic
reason. The dodgy bit is that you don't know how long the chicken has
lurked around and your home has probably got millions of germs in.

My advice would be to buy ready frozen and take some out each morning for
your sarnie, by the time you get to work the chicken has defrosted and yet
has kept the sandwich cool.

mrcheerful

Meats are high risk foods. They should be frozen quickly after
cooking, not a day later, and always heated through thoroughly after
defrosting.

NT

"Mick." wrote in message ...
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.

How long have you been doing this and has it caused you any problems
before? I would have thought freezing after cooking should be
relatively safe, it's reheating cooked chicken that causes the
problems IIRC. You could cook your own chicken thus adding your own
bit to the quality control.

--
Malc

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:59:02 +0100, "Mick."
wrote:

it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.

Yes, it certainly could.

The problem is that this process is safe if you do it right, but it
has risks (and considerable risks) if you don't. To be safe you need
to ensure that the chicken is cooked and then frozen _rapidly_ -
before bugs have time to breed in the cooling chicken. If you're
buying long-cooked chickens from a shop, carrying them home, then
trying to freeze them in an already-filled domestic freezer, then this
can be awkward to guarantee.

I presume you don't eat your chicken sandwiches frozen. So how do you
defrost this ready-cooked chicken ? If you do that slowly, then
there's a risk it will spend a long time at a suitably warm
bug-friendly temperature before the core is ready to eat. If you wish
to eat a frozen chicken, you have to get it hot enough _afterwards_ to
kill anything that's in it, or grew during defrosting. Of course
there's a limit on how much extra cooking you want to give something
that has already been cooked once. Defrosting rapidly (microwave) will
help.

If you can do this correctly for both situations, then you're safe.
But get it wrong and there's a real risk to it.

mogga wrote:
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:59:02 +0100, "Mick."
wrote:

Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.

I always understood it to be you can't refreeze chicken which has been
frozen ... unless of course you cook it first. Its the process of
defrosting meat which leads to the problem and repeated defrosting
exposes the bacteria to the right sort of temperature to reproduce to

I see no reason whatsoever why spending a week in a fridge (set at 4C)
is any better than spending a couple of days in the fridge defrosting,
a couple of weeks in the freezer, and then a couple of more days defrosting.

It's not multiple defrosts or freezings which is harmfull, but total
time at temperature suitable for bugs to breed.

For small stuff (chicken legs), I've given up on defrosting in the kitchen.
Take lump of frozen chicken legs.
Nuke on full power until some starts to unfreeze.
(most at this point will still be frozen, but you'll have warmed it up
from -20C to 0C, which is much much weaker as ice and can easily
be split apart).
Then split them apart, put on a tray/plate, and nuke at half power, rotating
every 2-3 minutes.
(while preparing onions/... for dish).
In a few minutes they are defrosted.
(and at about 50C, leave them like this for a few minutes to ensure
they are heated through)

This works very, very well for stuff like stews, you just keep it on
full power, stirring every minute to break up the frozen lumps.

For whole chickens, this of course doesn't work, I leave those in the
fridge for a couple of days to unfreeze.

Alternatively, a bit less aggressively, if your oven can do fan mode,
with just the fan blowing ambient air over them, that's good for defrosting
small stuff.

Meats are high risk foods. They should be frozen quickly after
cooking, not a day later, and always heated through thoroughly after
defrosting.

I don't know how I'm still alive.

Mary

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
news:4173bd47$0$47999$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp- For small

snip long winded stuff

This works very, very well for stuff like stews, you just keep it on
full power, stirring every minute to break up the frozen lumps.

Why b other, for stews? It will thaw in the stewpot.

For whole chickens, this of course doesn't work, I leave those in the
fridge for a couple of days to unfreeze.

Alternatively, a bit less aggressively, if your oven can do fan mode,
with just the fan blowing ambient air over them, that's good for
defrosting
small stuff.

Even less aggressively, leave the frozen whatever on a plate on the kitchen
counter. It will thaw. No energy cost.

Mary

"Robert" wrote in message
m...
"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it
to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.

it sounds a good way to proceed. Freeze it as fast as you can after
purchase - don't let it sit around warm which is when the bacteria
multiply.

Hey! Don't freeze it while it's still warm!

Mary

Robert

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:59:02 +0100, "Mick."
wrote:

it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.

Yes, it certainly could.

The problem is that this process is safe if you do it right, but it
has risks (and considerable risks) if you don't. To be safe you need
to ensure that the chicken is cooked and then frozen _rapidly_ -
before bugs have time to breed in the cooling chicken. If you're
buying long-cooked chickens from a shop, carrying them home, then
trying to freeze them in an already-filled domestic freezer, then this
can be awkward to guarantee.

I presume you don't eat your chicken sandwiches frozen. So how do you
defrost this ready-cooked chicken ? If you do that slowly, then
there's a risk it will spend a long time at a suitably warm
bug-friendly temperature before the core is ready to eat. If you wish
to eat a frozen chicken, you have to get it hot enough _afterwards_ to
kill anything that's in it, or grew during defrosting. Of course
there's a limit on how much extra cooking you want to give something
that has already been cooked once. Defrosting rapidly (microwave) will
help.

If you can do this correctly for both situations, then you're safe.
But get it wrong and there's a real risk to it.

I doubt that there's a greater risk than going on car journey.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

Even less aggressively, leave the frozen whatever on a plate on the
kitchen counter. It will thaw. No energy cost.


*GASP!!!!!*

You can't say things like that! We're all dooooooooomed, I tell you.

Si

"Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Even less aggressively, leave the frozen whatever on a plate on the
kitchen counter. It will thaw. No energy cost.


*GASP!!!!!*

You can't say things like that! We're all dooooooooomed, I tell you.

Si

Well, perhaps I'm immortal.

That'll teach you all :-)

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in
et:


it sounds a good way to proceed. Freeze it as fast as you can after
purchase - don't let it sit around warm which is when the bacteria
multiply.

Hey! Don't freeze it while it's still warm!

Mary

If he can do that he's a better man than me


mike

"mike ring" wrote in message
52.50...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in
et:


it sounds a good way to proceed. Freeze it as fast as you can after
purchase - don't let it sit around warm which is when the bacteria
multiply.

Hey! Don't freeze it while it's still warm!

Mary

If he can do that he's a better man than me

OK, I could have said it better, viz:

Hey! Don't attempt to freeze it while it's still warm!

Mary :-)




mike

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:04:06 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I doubt that there's a greater risk than going on car journey.

Quite possibly. I've had a couple of car accidents, only had
salmonella from mis-cooked chicken once. I'd prefer to avoid both.

Friend takes frozen lamb or beef mince and bungs it in his slow cooker
with whatever he wants to make it less boring. Switches the slowcooker
onto low and eats the result 8 or ten hours later when he gets home from
work. When I expressed distress at this practice he calmly explained
what he does with chicken: he takes frozen, uncooked chicken pieces,
frozen stock, handful of herbs, some veggies and repeats the slow cooker
incubation process and eats the result.

Not only is he very much alive and kicking but he also runs a youth
group that has weekends and weeks aways self catering!

He also maintains that the best way to clean a cut and encourage healing
is for one of dogs (bitches actually) to lick the wound, and he does let
them do this (to him).

Richard

--
Real email address is RJS at BIGFOOT dot COM

The information contained in this post
may not be published in, or used by

http://www.diyprojects.info

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
news:4173bd47$0$47999$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp- For small

snip long winded stuff

This works very, very well for stuff like stews, you just keep it on
full power, stirring every minute to break up the frozen lumps.

Why b other, for stews? It will thaw in the stewpot.

For whole chickens, this of course doesn't work, I leave those in the
fridge for a couple of days to unfreeze.

Alternatively, a bit less aggressively, if your oven can do fan mode,
with just the fan blowing ambient air over them, that's good for
defrosting
small stuff.

Even less aggressively, leave the frozen whatever on a plate on the kitchen
counter. It will thaw. No energy cost.

Heating is an energy cost.
Stick it in the fridge for a couple of days, and you actually recover
the heat used to freeze it.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...



Even less aggressively, leave the frozen whatever on a plate on the
kitchen
counter. It will thaw. No energy cost.

Heating is an energy cost.

er - yes, that's why I said leave it on the counter instead of putting it in
the oven.

Stick it in the fridge for a couple of days, and you actually recover
the heat used to freeze it.

?

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...



Even less aggressively, leave the frozen whatever on a plate on the
kitchen
counter. It will thaw. No energy cost.

Heating is an energy cost.

er - yes, that's why I said leave it on the counter instead of putting it in
the oven.

House heating.

Stick it in the fridge for a couple of days, and you actually recover
the heat used to freeze it.

A kilo of water will absorb about a third or two thirds (I can't remember
which, one is boiling and one is freezing) of a KWh when melting.
Stick it in the fridge, and the fridge works a bit less hard for
a couple of days.
Stick it on the counter, (assuming you're heating this time of year)
and it'll cost you a substantial fraction of a pence to defrost it.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...



Even less aggressively, leave the frozen whatever on a plate on the
kitchen
counter. It will thaw. No energy cost.

Heating is an energy cost.

er - yes, that's why I said leave it on the counter instead of putting it
in
the oven.

House heating.

Oh.

puzzled

You don't need the house heating on to thaw frozen stuff. Ours hasn't come
on yet.

Stick it in the fridge for a couple of days, and you actually recover
the heat used to freeze it.

A kilo of water will absorb about a third or two thirds (I can't remember
which, one is boiling and one is freezing) of a KWh when melting.
Stick it in the fridge, and the fridge works a bit less hard for
a couple of days.

Hmm. A bit being?

Stick it on the counter, (assuming you're heating this time of year)

We're not.

and it'll cost you a substantial fraction of a pence to defrost it.

Well, if we were heating yes, it could cost, ooh, must be easily the best
part of something very small... on the other hand, the humanity hereabouts
gives out more than enough heat to thaw frozen stuff. And keep the
thermostat from coming into play :-)

Mary

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:42:03 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Well, perhaps I'm immortal.

Oh-oh. I get anxious when I see someone owning up to being
IMMortal..... ;)

You'll be telling us how to install a combi boiler with a
recirculating air vent next ;)

Andrew

Ian Stirling wrote in
:


Heating is an energy cost.
Stick it in the fridge for a couple of days, and you actually recover
the heat used to freeze it.

That's brilliant!

I only suggested defrosting in the fridge as a safe way to do it; the
thought that I can save a groat makes me skinflint tendency rejoice

mike

"Mary Fisher" wrote
| Even less aggressively, leave the frozen whatever on a plate
| on the kitchen counter. It will thaw. No energy cost.

Considerable energy cost in driving to the chinese takeaway on christmas day
because the cat got up at 4 am and helped itself to the turkey, as
neighbours once found out.

(You and I would probably have just hidden the gnawed bits with an extra
chipolata.)

Owain

"Mary Fisher" wrote
| Freeze it as fast as you can after purchase - don't
| let it sit around warm which is when the bacteria
| multiply.
| Hey! Don't freeze it while it's still warm!

What about a blast chiller/freezer or, failing that, a good squirt with a
CO2 fire-extinguisher[1]

Owain

[1] AKA 'the fire-extinguisher formerly coloured black'

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:16:24 +0100, Richard wrote:

repeats the slow cooker
incubation process and eats the result.

I'd be much happier doing that than I would having cooked chicken go
gradually cool, then freezing it and eating the result some time
later. Of the OP's technique, it's the getting it frozen part that
worries me most.

He also maintains that the best way to clean a cut and encourage healing
is for one of dogs (bitches actually) to lick the wound, and he does let
them do this (to him).

Best quote from Radio 4 all week
Alan Davies is playing a dog in a sit-com. After indulging in some
typical owner-dog anthropomorphism and being fed something really
disgusting, he has the line "Do you mind, I've got to lick my privates
clean later"

In message , N.
Thornton writes
"mrcheerful
." wrote in message
.uk...
"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.


Since you can buy ready frozen ready cooked chicken there is no generic
reason. The dodgy bit is that you don't know how long the chicken has
lurked around and your home has probably got millions of germs in.

My advice would be to buy ready frozen and take some out each morning for
your sarnie, by the time you get to work the chicken has defrosted and yet
has kept the sandwich cool.

mrcheerful

Meats are high risk foods. They should be frozen quickly after
cooking,

Once cold, otherwise you could defrost other things in the freezer

not a day later, and always heated through thoroughly after
defrosting.


However, as someone who eats almost anything and everything, I might not
be the best person to reply to the original question



The information contained in this post
may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diyprojects.info

--
geoff

In message , Andrew McKay
writes
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:59:02 +0100, "Mick."
wrote:

I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.

Strange DIY topic, but there you go!

Maybe so, but on topic



The information contained in this post
may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diyprojects.info

--
geoff

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:56:30 +0100, "Owain"
wrote:

Considerable energy cost in driving to the chinese takeaway on christmas day
because the cat got up at 4 am and helped itself to the turkey, as
neighbours once found out.

One year my parents decided to outwit the cat (always risky) and its
annual Tom-and-Jerry attempts to scoff the entire Christmas turkey.
They hung the cooked bird up on a string in the garage.

Later on (having noticed the missing cat) they went out to check the
turkey. To find the cat, inside a locked garage, spread eagled on the
side of the carcase several feet above the ground and hanging from its
paws with its head already a substantial way inside the bird.

Mick. wrote:

Hi all,
I am a 60 year old male living alone and like most of us out at work all
day!
I have been buying fresh cooked chickens, normally 2 at a time,
removing all the skin and bone, portioning it and when cool freezing it to
use in sandwiches ect as I need.
it has been suggested that freezing fresh cooked chicken could result in
food poisoning.
any advice welcomed.
Mick.


Hurry up and die.
There is a housing shortage you know, Don't be anstiocial.