Hi,
My friend's 18 year old boiler makes a groaning noise whenever it
cycles on. The noise stops once the boiler cycles off. I am wondering
whether noise reducer gel would be beneficial in this situation.

As far as I understand it the noise reducer gel addresses the problem
of "kettling" which, supposedly, sounds like a kettle boiling
(surprisingly enough). I would not say this low pitched groaning noise
sounds much like a kettle, but it definitely eminates from the boiler
itself rather than the associated pipework or other fittings. Neither
is it coming from the pump, because as I say, it is only apparent when
the boiler is actually firing rather than just circulating the water.

So my question is, is the noise reducer gel likely to be worth the
twenty odd quid?

Thanks for your help.

Winged Cat wrote:
Hi,
My friend's 18 year old boiler makes a groaning noise whenever it
cycles on. The noise stops once the boiler cycles off. I am wondering
whether noise reducer gel would be beneficial in this situation.

Has it always done this?
When does the noise start.
Typically, the pump will go on, then the blower, then the pilot light,
followed by the burner.

A groaning noise may well be the bearings on the blower dying.
Oiling/greasing it may stop it for a few weeks to a few years.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:12:19 +0000, Ian Stirling wrote:

Winged Cat wrote:
Hi,
My friend's 18 year old boiler makes a groaning noise whenever it
cycles on. The noise stops once the boiler cycles off. I am wondering
whether noise reducer gel would be beneficial in this situation.

Has it always done this?
When does the noise start.
Typically, the pump will go on, then the blower, then the pilot light,
followed by the burner.

A groaning noise may well be the bearings on the blower dying.
Oiling/greasing it may stop it for a few weeks to a few years.

Fairly sure that Elans are natural draught with open or balanced flue
variants.
Might be some sort of flame/burner problem. Start with a good clear out
and thorough check over.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message n.co.uk...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:12:19 +0000, Ian Stirling wrote:

Winged Cat wrote:
Hi,
My friend's 18 year old boiler makes a groaning noise whenever it
cycles on. The noise stops once the boiler cycles off. I am wondering
whether noise reducer gel would be beneficial in this situation.

Has it always done this?
When does the noise start.
Typically, the pump will go on, then the blower, then the pilot light,
followed by the burner.

A groaning noise may well be the bearings on the blower dying.
Oiling/greasing it may stop it for a few weeks to a few years.

Fairly sure that Elans are natural draught with open or balanced flue
variants.
Might be some sort of flame/burner problem. Start with a good clear out
and thorough check over.

Thanks for the advice so far.

It is natural draught so the noise is not flu related. The noise is
definitely associated with the water being heated, as it starts off
quitely when the boiler commences its cycle, the gradually increases
in volume as the water gets heated, reaches a plateau, and then ceases
when the boiler cycles off again.

On 2004-10-18, Winged Cat wrote:

Fairly sure that Elans are natural draught with open or balanced flue
variants.
Might be some sort of flame/burner problem. Start with a good clear out
and thorough check over.

Thanks for the advice so far.

It is natural draught so the noise is not flu related. The noise is
definitely associated with the water being heated, as it starts off
quitely when the boiler commences its cycle, the gradually increases
in volume as the water gets heated, reaches a plateau, and then ceases
when the boiler cycles off again.

My ~15 year old Ideal (Stelrad) New Mexico Slimline has benefitted
greatly from a shot of the (screwfix supplied) Purimachos boiler
descaler and the inhibitor in to too after a full drain down.

It used to make a noise like that which you describe - but now - 3
weeks later it's almost inaudiable in the kitchen - and the whole
system seems to be a lot quieter.

Big thanks to AndyH/Ed for the advice in the first place

Cheers
Dan

Winged Cat wrote:
snip
It is natural draught so the noise is not flu related. The noise is
definitely associated with the water being heated, as it starts off
quitely when the boiler commences its cycle, the gradually increases
in volume as the water gets heated, reaches a plateau, and then ceases
when the boiler cycles off again.

Ok, that obviously rules out the fan


Then it'll probably be silent, if you start it from cold, at least for a
while.

Kettles/boilers/... can in general make wierd noises.
The mechanism is that the water gets hot, and a bubble of steam can
form which then rapidly collapses as it moves away from the heated
surface.
Get conditions just right (pipework/... that makes the echo from this
little bang arrive just as the next bubble is about to collapse) and
you can get the noise feeding on itself, and part of the energy that
should go into heating the water goes into making noise.

Anti-kettling additive may be a good idea.

It's also possible that some other element is failing, and causing the
boiler to sing as it's getting too hot.
Possibly the pimp (if present), or maybe just general clogging.

So, a flush of the system with some gunk-clearant may not be a bad one
either.

Dan delaMare-Lyonwrote:
On 2004-10-18, Winged Cat wrote:

Fairly sure that Elans are natural draught with open or balanced
flue
variants.
Might be some sort of flame/burner problem. Start with a good clear
out
and thorough check over.

Thanks for the advice so far.

It is natural draught so the noise is not flu related. The noise is
definitely associated with the water being heated, as it starts off
quitely when the boiler commences its cycle, the gradually
increases
in volume as the water gets heated, reaches a plateau, and then
ceases
when the boiler cycles off again.

My ~15 year old Ideal (Stelrad) New Mexico Slimline has benefitted
greatly from a shot of the (screwfix supplied) Purimachos boiler
descaler and the inhibitor in to too after a full drain down.

It used to make a noise like that which you describe - but now - 3
weeks later it's almost inaudiable in the kitchen - and the whole
system seems to be a lot quieter.

Big thanks to AndyH/Ed for the advice in the first place

Cheers
Dan[/quote:63f67109a5]

TEST :? 8) :P :evil: :?:

On 2004-10-18, Ian Stirling wrote:

Possibly the pimp (if present), or maybe just general clogging.

Hmmmm - hadn't noticed that boilers had a pimp ;-)
Wonder why they keep that feature off the spec sheets

Sorry - couldn't resist

Cheers
Dan.

In message , Winged Cat
writes
Hi,
My friend's 18 year old boiler makes a groaning noise whenever it
cycles on. The noise stops once the boiler cycles off. I am wondering
whether noise reducer gel would be beneficial in this situation.

Sexy boiler the Elan

Could it be a washer vibrating?

Difficult to tell without a more precise explanation of the noise

At what point in the cycle does this filly make a noise ?


The information contained in this post
may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diyprojects.info


--
geoff

In message . uk, Ed
Sirett writes
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:12:19 +0000, Ian Stirling wrote:

Winged Cat wrote:
Hi,
My friend's 18 year old boiler makes a groaning noise whenever it
cycles on. The noise stops once the boiler cycles off. I am wondering
whether noise reducer gel would be beneficial in this situation.

Has it always done this?
When does the noise start.
Typically, the pump will go on, then the blower, then the pilot light,
followed by the burner.

A groaning noise may well be the bearings on the blower dying.
Oiling/greasing it may stop it for a few weeks to a few years.

Fairly sure that Elans are natural draught with open or balanced flue
variants.

Plenty of fan flued ones around. The fan assembly sits on a plate almost
the width of the boiler

Might be some sort of flame/burner problem. Start with a good clear out
and thorough check over.



The information contained in this post
may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diyprojects.info


--
geoff

In message , Ian
Stirling writes
Winged Cat wrote:
snip
It is natural draught so the noise is not flu related. The noise is
definitely associated with the water being heated, as it starts off
quitely when the boiler commences its cycle, the gradually increases
in volume as the water gets heated, reaches a plateau, and then ceases
when the boiler cycles off again.

Ok, that obviously rules out the fan


Then it'll probably be silent, if you start it from cold, at least for a
while.

Kettles/boilers/... can in general make wierd noises.
The mechanism is that the water gets hot, and a bubble of steam can
form which then rapidly collapses as it moves away from the heated
surface.
Get conditions just right (pipework/... that makes the echo from this
little bang arrive just as the next bubble is about to collapse) and
you can get the noise feeding on itself, and part of the energy that
should go into heating the water goes into making noise.

Anti-kettling additive may be a good idea.

It's also possible that some other element is failing, and causing the
boiler to sing as it's getting too hot.
Possibly the pimp (if present),

Now that must be a freudian slip

I'd still go for a washer vibrating in the flow

or maybe just general clogging.

So, a flush of the system with some gunk-clearant may not be a bad one
either.


The information contained in this post
may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diyprojects.info


--
geoff

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:46:42 +0000, raden wrote:


Fairly sure that Elans are natural draught with open or balanced flue
variants.

Plenty of fan flued ones around. The fan assembly sits on a plate almost
the width of the boiler

This is another example where the manufacturers kept the name of a
previous and successful [1] model. Early Profiles were called 'Netaheat
Profile'. Ideal do a 'Mexico II' (Sameas as ma Mexico but with electronic
ignition).

[1] = They sold the ones they made, made money on their activities and
the appliance did not make the evening news for taking out someone's
house. ;-)

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

raden wrote in message ...
In message , Winged Cat
writes
Hi,
My friend's 18 year old boiler makes a groaning noise whenever it
cycles on. The noise stops once the boiler cycles off. I am wondering
whether noise reducer gel would be beneficial in this situation.

Sexy boiler the Elan

Could it be a washer vibrating?

Difficult to tell without a more precise explanation of the noise

At what point in the cycle does this filly make a noise ?

Well thank you for your help everyone. This afternoon I drained down
and refilled, adding 1 bottle of inhibitor and 1 bottle of noise
reducer and incredibly the noise has stopped completely. I cannot
believe the noise reducer can be directly responsible for the instant
disappearance of the noise. I thought it was supposed to work like a
descaler which I would have thought would take some time to have an
effect.

My theory at the moment is that the drain down has dislodged some
smeg/limescale that had accumulated in some crucial part of the system
(causing the noise) and it has either been drained away or displaced
to some area where it's not doing any harm. I can't really think of
any other rational explanation.