In message , Richard Faulkner
writes
During the last recession, I recall one house where I suggested an
asking price of £50K, and the property went on the market at £60K - it
didnt sell. I was asked back about 9 months later, and suggested an
asking price of £50K,

This should have read "I suggested an asking price of £40K"

and the property went on the market with a new agent at £50K - it didnt
sell. I was asked back again around 6 months later, and suggested an
asking price of £35K. I got the instruction, and it sold for £33K.

Given that the market is changing, do you want to take the chance of
getting into this spiral? - I agree that the next house may do the
same, but, given that it will probably happen on both houses, I would
always prefer to be "losing money" in the place where I want to be.


Whoops!
--
Richard Faulkner

MBQ wrote:

Find the house you want to buy and offer them 10% below asking and go
from there. What you lose on your sale you may well gain (and some) on
your purchase.

Ha-ha-ha!

Took, in all, a 10% hit on our old place (£177k, dropped it to £169k,
took offer of £162k) and got exactly nothing off the new one as we had
to match a full price offer but we had a chain and they didn't. So we
won.

Was it worth it?

You betcha!

To the OP: If offers haven't been forthcoming, just take the 185k. As
mentioned before, it doesn't make a huge difference to the next mortgage
and, even if you're only selling for tuppence more than you bought,
you've made a profit.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Latest development: Agent has made an appointment to come around and
discuss offer with me face to face! Heavy mob? Should I get tooled up?
I'm off to buy a sausage roll from Tesco's for reinforcement.

MM

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:51:39 +0100, "Al Reynolds"
wrote:


"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , Richard Faulkner
writes
In message , MM
writes
Is it not a legal obligation for estate agents to confirm every offer
received by writing to the vendor? I have not received any such
written confirmation yet.

MM

Yes - "as soon as is reasonably practicable", which is generally accepted
to be on the day the offer is received, unless it is close to closing
time.

Is it a requirement that it has to be *in writing*, or just that they
must notify the vendor?

Often the contract with the agent specifies that by phone is
an acceptable alternative. Depends on the OP's contract.

Separate to Richard's helpful advice, I have since located the
Ombudsman for Estate Agents' Code of Practice, in which para 6a reads:

quote

6a

By law you must tell clients as soon as is reasonably possible about
all offers that you receive at any time until contracts have been
exchanged (in Scotland, missives have been concluded) unless the offer
is an amount or type which the client has specifically instructed you,
in writing, not to pass on. You must confirm such offers in writing
at the earliest opportunity and keep a written or computerised record
of all offers you receive (including the date and time of such offers)
and the client’s response.

/quote

As of this Thursday pm I have not received any such notice. "Looks
like war, Matilda." "Oh, what is to become of us, Harry?" "Matilda, I
just don't don't know what the world is coming to any more." "Never
mind, Harry, at least we've got each other!"

MM

On 14 Oct 2004 05:35:22 -0700, (MBQ) wrote:

MM wrote in message . ..
I have now had an offer. It is almost 10% below the asking price.
Given the current market situation, what are your comments?

MM

Find the house you want to buy and offer them 10% below asking and go
from there. What you lose on your sale you may well gain (and some) on
your purchase.

Heh, I'd rather gain on my sale AND gain on my purchase! Crikey, they
could get it for 10 grand below asking price! It's not like I'm
robbing them blind or something.

MM

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

R Taylor wrote in message ...
MM wrote:
I have now had an offer. It is almost 10% below the asking price.
Given the current market situation, what are your comments?
I know 2 people in the process of buying/selling at the moment and all 4
properties are said by the building society surveyors to be 10%
overvalued.
Sounds like official company policy.

I've written about this practise before; -
IMHO, it's part of a scam ... say you want to purchase a house
for 100 units- you've got 20 units for a deposit and wish to
borrow 80 units (on mortgage). The property will be valued
by the BS surveyors at 70 units and that's all they'll advance
as a mortgage - they'll tell you that if you default they'll
only be able to realise 70 units in a sale. You moan and groan
muttering 'what am I going to do?': at this point somebody
in the money-supply side says;- 'Voila! if you purchase a
single-premium insurance policy for the 10 units - so we
guaranteed our 80 units if you default -we can advance the
80 units you request! "
"Oh", you say"We're committed to the hilt and can't possibly
find the money to pay such a single premium!"
They'll say;"That's all right, we'll ad it onto the loan -lending
you 81 units- and take the premium off that - you'll never
notice the slight increase in monthly payouts!"

Cynic? Moi?
If the poster's _friends_ had said ; one surveyor said
it was £30K overvalued - or any specific figure - I
wouldn't be suspicious ... but _both_ by _10%_ ..?

--

Brian

"MM" wrote in message
...
On 14 Oct 2004 05:35:22 -0700, (MBQ) wrote:

MM wrote in message
...
I have now had an offer. It is almost 10% below the asking price.
Given the current market situation, what are your comments?

MM

Find the house you want to buy and offer them 10% below asking and go
from there. What you lose on your sale you may well gain (and some) on
your purchase.

Heh, I'd rather gain on my sale AND gain on my purchase! Crikey, they
could get it for 10 grand below asking price! It's not like I'm
robbing them blind or something.

MM

with recent house price inflation everyone is being robbed blind.
There are very few winners.

David wrote:
"MM" wrote in message
...
On 14 Oct 2004 05:35:22 -0700, (MBQ) wrote:

MM wrote in message
. ..
I have now had an offer. It is almost 10% below the asking price.
Given the current market situation, what are your comments?

MM

Find the house you want to buy and offer them 10% below asking and go
from there. What you lose on your sale you may well gain (and some) on
your purchase.

Heh, I'd rather gain on my sale AND gain on my purchase! Crikey, they
could get it for 10 grand below asking price! It's not like I'm
robbing them blind or something.

MM

with recent house price inflation everyone is being robbed blind.
There are very few winners.

*one of the few puts his hand up*


RT

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:51:39 +0100, "Al Reynolds"
Separate to Richard's helpful advice, I have since located the
Ombudsman for Estate Agents' Code of Practice, in which para 6a reads:

quote

6a

By law you must tell clients as soon as is reasonably possible about
all offers that you receive at any time until contracts have been
exchanged (in Scotland, missives have been concluded) unless the offer
is an amount or type which the client has specifically instructed you,
in writing, not to pass on. You must confirm such offers in writing
at the earliest opportunity and keep a written or computerised record
of all offers you receive (including the date and time of such offers)
and the client's response.
/quote

And I've just checked the contract I signed the last time I employed
an estate agent, in which I specifically instructed (the estate agent) in
writing not to pass on details of offers in writing *unless I had accepted
them*. It was a fairly standard term in the contract which the agent
drew my attention to before I signed.

You need to check what you signed to know if they are still obliged
to notify offers in writing. None of us know what is in your contract
with your estate agent.

Al

"MM" wrote in message
...
Latest development: Agent has made an appointment to come around and
discuss offer with me face to face! Heavy mob? Should I get tooled up?
I'm off to buy a sausage roll from Tesco's for reinforcement.

Let us know what they say...

In message , MM
writes
As of this Thursday pm I have not received any such notice. "Looks like
war, Matilda." "Oh, what is to become of us, Harry?" "Matilda, I just
don't don't know what the world is coming to any more." "Never mind,
Harry, at least we've got each other!"


Dont forget that you really want the estate agent on your side so,
unless you are planning to sack them and go to Trading Standards, you
should be wary of declaring war.

In real terms, what have you lost by not having the offer in writing?

Let me stress that I am not defending the estate agent, merely
suggesting that you could cut off your nose to spite your face here.

--
Richard Faulkner

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:28:43 +0100, MM wrote:

Latest development: Agent has made an appointment to come around and
discuss offer with me face to face! Heavy mob? Should I get tooled up?
I'm off to buy a sausage roll from Tesco's for reinforcement.

MM

Hi,

Are they in a hurry and able to exchange before a given date? It might
not be good to get strung along in a patchy market.

cheers,
Pete.

Pete C wrote:

Hi,

Are they in a hurry and able to exchange before a given date? It might
not be good to get strung along in a patchy market.

Very relevant. My personal approach on selling is:-

1) Take the money and run. ( Every experienced salesman's approach,
before the buyer of the product finds that it doesn't suit his purpose!)

2) ALWAYS leave the property on the market until the contracts are
exchanged.

3) Remember the market traders maxim, 2% profit on something is much
better than 50% of nothing!

You may get a better offer as a result of 2), (IMO not likely in the
current climate.) but it concentrates the mind of the buyer and reduces
the risk to you of wishfull purchasers. If the buyer doesn't like it,
IMO they are a doubtful proposition and you may well be disappointed in
a couple of months time. We are coming up to the "dead" period of the
year, when buyers start thinking about Xmas and not moving house, so
bear this in mind when taking decisions.

With some i/p prices to producers rising by 3% last month AIUI, it
looks to me that we may heading into another high inflation period with
corresponding interest rates and mortgage costs, so, I'd personally sell
like a shot at almost any price and gamble on prices falling for the
next house. I've managed to guess right twice now, so I'm probably wrong
this time round, but I can't see much upside to property prices in the
next couple of years. The B of E governor won't hint at stable interest
rates, so he's not very confident of the future.

Regards
Capitol

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:58:55 +0100, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

In message , MM
writes
As of this Thursday pm I have not received any such notice. "Looks like
war, Matilda." "Oh, what is to become of us, Harry?" "Matilda, I just
don't don't know what the world is coming to any more." "Never mind,
Harry, at least we've got each other!"


Dont forget that you really want the estate agent on your side so,
unless you are planning to sack them and go to Trading Standards, you
should be wary of declaring war.

In real terms, what have you lost by not having the offer in writing?

Let me stress that I am not defending the estate agent, merely
suggesting that you could cut off your nose to spite your face here.

Don't agree at all. One of our (many) problems in Britain is that we
never put things in writing, thinking a quick phone call will suffice.
But with nothing written down it's easy for the other party to claim
whatever they want to later on. It's a legal obligation as per the
Code of Practice and that's what the agent must comply with.

MM

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:20:41 +0100, Capitol
wrote:



Pete C wrote:

Hi,

Are they in a hurry and able to exchange before a given date? It might
not be good to get strung along in a patchy market.

Very relevant. My personal approach on selling is:-

1) Take the money and run. ( Every experienced salesman's approach,
before the buyer of the product finds that it doesn't suit his purpose!)

2) ALWAYS leave the property on the market until the contracts are
exchanged.

3) Remember the market traders maxim, 2% profit on something is much
better than 50% of nothing!

You may get a better offer as a result of 2), (IMO not likely in the
current climate.) but it concentrates the mind of the buyer and reduces
the risk to you of wishfull purchasers. If the buyer doesn't like it,
IMO they are a doubtful proposition and you may well be disappointed in
a couple of months time. We are coming up to the "dead" period of the
year, when buyers start thinking about Xmas and not moving house, so
bear this in mind when taking decisions.

With some i/p prices to producers rising by 3% last month AIUI, it
looks to me that we may heading into another high inflation period with
corresponding interest rates and mortgage costs, so, I'd personally sell
like a shot at almost any price and gamble on prices falling for the
next house. I've managed to guess right twice now, so I'm probably wrong
this time round, but I can't see much upside to property prices in the
next couple of years. The B of E governor won't hint at stable interest
rates, so he's not very confident of the future.

Regards
Capitol

Good one, Cap!

MM

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:38:51 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:28:43 +0100, MM wrote:

Latest development: Agent has made an appointment to come around and
discuss offer with me face to face! Heavy mob? Should I get tooled up?
I'm off to buy a sausage roll from Tesco's for reinforcement.

MM

Hi,

Are they in a hurry and able to exchange before a given date? It might
not be good to get strung along in a patchy market.

cheers,
Pete.

Yep. They want to be moved by Christmas and the agent is "stipulating"
a 28-day exchange. No skin off my nose as I can always live in a
long-stay B&B if need be.

MM

In message , MM
writes
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:58:55 +0100, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

In message , MM
writes
As of this Thursday pm I have not received any such notice. "Looks like
war, Matilda." "Oh, what is to become of us, Harry?" "Matilda, I just
don't don't know what the world is coming to any more." "Never mind,
Harry, at least we've got each other!"


Dont forget that you really want the estate agent on your side so,
unless you are planning to sack them and go to Trading Standards, you
should be wary of declaring war.

In real terms, what have you lost by not having the offer in writing?

Let me stress that I am not defending the estate agent, merely
suggesting that you could cut off your nose to spite your face here.

Don't agree at all. One of our (many) problems in Britain is that we
never put things in writing, thinking a quick phone call will suffice.
But with nothing written down it's easy for the other party to claim
whatever they want to later on. It's a legal obligation as per the
Code of Practice and that's what the agent must comply with.

MM

Only trying to help you to avoid cutting off the hand that feeds. The
moment you go to war, your relationship ends. Why not give them a call
and ask for confirmation of the offer in writing.



--
Richard Faulkner

In message , Capitol
writes
We are coming up to the "dead" period of the year, when buyers start
thinking about Xmas and not moving house,

I always tended to find that people making offers at this time of year
tended to want to be in for Xmas. It wasnt until mid Novembers' offers
that most realised that this was unrealistic, although some would still
have a go.

--
Richard Faulkner

"MM" wrote:
wrote:
Let me stress that I am not defending the estate agent, merely
suggesting that you could cut off your nose to spite your face here.

Don't agree at all. One of our (many) problems in Britain is that we
never put things in writing, thinking a quick phone call will suffice.
But with nothing written down it's easy for the other party to claim
whatever they want to later on. It's a legal obligation as per the
Code of Practice and that's what the agent must comply with.

But not if you signed something in your contract with the estate
agent indicating that you only required written notification for
an offer which you are going to accept.

The legal obligation is:
By law you must tell clients as soon as is reasonably possible about
all offers that you receive at any time until contracts have been
exchanged ... unless the offer is an amount or type which the client
has specifically instructed you, in writing, not to pass on.

So if, in the contract with the agent, you indicated that offers of the
type "not going to be accepted" should not be passed on in writing,
then the agent won't pass these on in writing. The last time we sold
a house we had about seven offers notified by phone, but only the
one we accepted was notified in writing, because we had signed a
clause in the contract which made precisely this request.

Have you checked your contract?

Al

"MM" wrote:
Yep. They want to be moved by Christmas and the agent is "stipulating"
a 28-day exchange. No skin off my nose as I can always live in a
long-stay B&B if need be.

Sounds ideal to me.

If you're still desperate to get more than £185000, I would
tell them that your prepared to sell without an onward purchase,
thus terminating any chain. This makes their dream of exchanging
within 28 days much more likely so they might go up to £189000
(don't call it £190000 - it sounds too much more ;-). Of course,
they might not bite, in which case it might have to be £185000.

You walk away with a big wad of cash which you can use to buy
whatever house you like at the drop of a hat.

Al

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:13:46 +0100, "Al Reynolds"
wrote:

"MM" wrote:
wrote:
Let me stress that I am not defending the estate agent, merely
suggesting that you could cut off your nose to spite your face here.

Don't agree at all. One of our (many) problems in Britain is that we
never put things in writing, thinking a quick phone call will suffice.
But with nothing written down it's easy for the other party to claim
whatever they want to later on. It's a legal obligation as per the
Code of Practice and that's what the agent must comply with.

But not if you signed something in your contract with the estate
agent indicating that you only required written notification for
an offer which you are going to accept.

The legal obligation is:
By law you must tell clients as soon as is reasonably possible about
all offers that you receive at any time until contracts have been
exchanged ... unless the offer is an amount or type which the client
has specifically instructed you, in writing, not to pass on.

So if, in the contract with the agent, you indicated that offers of the
type "not going to be accepted" should not be passed on in writing,
then the agent won't pass these on in writing. The last time we sold
a house we had about seven offers notified by phone, but only the
one we accepted was notified in writing, because we had signed a
clause in the contract which made precisely this request.

Have you checked your contract?

Yes. There is no such waiver.

MM

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:47:36 +0100, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

In message , Capitol
writes
We are coming up to the "dead" period of the year, when buyers start
thinking about Xmas and not moving house,

I always tended to find that people making offers at this time of year
tended to want to be in for Xmas. It wasnt until mid Novembers' offers
that most realised that this was unrealistic, although some would still
have a go.

Can't understand this urge to be 'in by Christmas' myself. It would be
a lot more fun for a lot of people to do ANYthing to avoid Christmas
if at all possible. If you offered £5,000 to most people if they just
carried on as normal, most would take the money. All Christmas has
become is a cynical, profit-making season of good will - towards the
big corporate coffers. They bombard us with advertising and glossy
gift catalogues, nicely printed in the Far East back in the spring. We
buy piles of utter rubbish at inflated prices, most of which ends up
in landfill by January. Families often fall out, divorce proceedings
are started, kids leave home, the dog eats the turkey, then sicks it
up under the bed.

Christmas? Pah!

MM

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:19:35 +0100, "Al Reynolds"
wrote:


"MM" wrote:
Yep. They want to be moved by Christmas and the agent is "stipulating"
a 28-day exchange. No skin off my nose as I can always live in a
long-stay B&B if need be.

Sounds ideal to me.

If you're still desperate to get more than £185000, I would
tell them that your prepared to sell without an onward purchase,
thus terminating any chain. This makes their dream of exchanging
within 28 days much more likely so they might go up to £189000
(don't call it £190000 - it sounds too much more ;-). Of course,
they might not bite, in which case it might have to be £185000.

You walk away with a big wad of cash which you can use to buy
whatever house you like at the drop of a hat.

Yes, there is that. However, pause for a moment for some slight
additional irritation. When the agent's agent came round yesterday for
a chat, another viewer of my property (who visited a week ago today)
who has also sold to a FTB cropped up in conversation during which it
became apparent that this other viewer had not been approached with
revised information about a lower offer I might be prepared to accept.
As far as that other viewer is concerned, the property is still on at
the asking price. I instructed the agent's agent to get on the blower
pronto this am, just to make sure that we are covering all possibles,
since no one appears to have done so yet.

I even wonder whether it would be unethical of me to contact the
person myself, as I know the person's telephone number. Hopefully I
can trust the agent to exhaust all avenues of all potential buyers...?

MM

"mogga" wrote
| We have spiders in our house big enough to eat huge clusters
| of spiders. Unless the cats eat all the spiders. Or is it
| supposed to be old ladies?

You only have to worry when the spiders start eating the cats.

Owain

"MM" wrote
| All Christmas has become is a cynical, profit-making season of
| good will - towards the big corporate coffers. They bombard
| us with advertising and glossy gift catalogues, nicely printed
| in the Far East back in the spring.

I saw Santa Claus last week at the Yorkshire Agricultural Museum. He was
there for a photo session.

Owain