In article ,
Richard Porter wrote:
I bet all of those built in kitchen appliances are supplied with moulded
on plugs!!

They may look "built-in" but I bet the appliances we are talking about
(a washing machine and a dishwasher) are in fact free-standing,
probably on castors, and just slide into purpose-made slots in the
kitchen units. In that case they are not "fixed" and can have normal
flexes and plugs.

Yes; I recently helped with the installation of a complete kitchen where
all the appliances were built in, and every one, except for the oven,
came fitted with a lead and plug.

--
*There's no place like www.home.com *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Yes; I recently helped with the installation of a complete kitchen where
all the appliances were built in, and every one, except for the oven,
came fitted with a lead and plug.

This is not the problem its the additional means of isolation thats required

Peter

"Richard Porter" wrote in message
...
On 12 Oct 2004 Peter wrote:

Peter wrote:

Well regs say so sockets are for portable appliances if said
appliance is fixed then it should be wired via a switched isolator
one exceptionn given is a clock.

I bet all of those built in kitchen appliances are supplied with moulded
on plugs!!

They may look "built-in" but I bet the appliances we are talking about
(a washing machine and a dishwasher) are in fact free-standing,
probably on castors, and just slide into purpose-made slots in the
kitchen units. In that case they are not "fixed" and can have normal
flexes and plugs.

Yes this is true the regs give a definition that its a fixed appliance if
held into place my means of brakets and/or screws to the cabinets or walls,
if it slides out its not fixed.

Peter

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
the same reason the metal sink is earthed its called bonding

You really need to do some more reading. There is no requirement to bond a
metal sink. Indeed it may be increasing risk to do so. We're talking about
kitchens here.

Christian.

see answer above for the requirement suggest you get the book out.

Peter

Thats not what it says in the IEE regs it says "ALL metalwork MUST be
bonded
if it cannot be effecively segregated to prevent appreciable voltage
difference at possible points of contact" and "items that may require
bonding include sinks" I wont be rude and say you talk "Piffle" but I
agree
that the" may "included in the above is not defined exactly. You are I can
make informed choice but when giving advise to others it should be given
on
the safe side.

Sorry, you are wrong. You are reading the UK regulations aren't you?

There are many references on the web to the potential dangers of bonding
metalwork that doesn't require bonding. In particular, even in bathrooms, it
is safer to use plastic pipework and leave metal baths and radiators
unbonded.

Festooning an installation in bonding wire can make an installation more
dangerous in some circumstances. You mustn't interpret the advice as "it
isn't required, so don't bother".

You only have to look at the poor unfortunate woman who was killed by the
wall mounted rack. It was the good bonding on the dishwasher that meant that
sufficient current was available to kill her. Obviously, I'm not suggesting
that you don't bond the dishwasher, just that if you have metal parts, then
isolation is preferable to earthing.

Christian.

see answer above for the requirement suggest you get the book out.

Sorry, it is at home and not to hand. Which regulation are you quoting?

Christian.

You only have to look at the poor unfortunate woman who was killed by the
wall mounted rack. It was the good bonding on the dishwasher that meant
that
sufficient current was available to kill her. Obviously, I'm not
suggesting
that you don't bond the dishwasher, just that if you have metal parts,
then
isolation is preferable to earthing.

But if the rack was earthed ?

But if the rack was earthed ?

Well, if you want to earth your bread bin, your wine rack, your door hinges,
door handles etc. then feel free. I'd go for a yellow and green colour
scheme in your kitchen if you do.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
But if the rack was earthed ?

Well, if you want to earth your bread bin, your wine rack, your door
hinges,
door handles etc. then feel free. I'd go for a yellow and green colour
scheme in your kitchen if you do.

Christian.

: ) i was being sarcastic

Peter

Peter wrote:


But if the rack was earthed ?

Oh, for Pete's sake! This is not a catering kitchen we're talking about,
just an ordinary domestic one; the "rack" in question sounds like a
little wire basket a few inches across. What else do you suggest we
earth: a bread bin (I've had a metal one mounted on the wall in a
previous home)?

"Stefek Zaba" wrote in message
...
Peter wrote:


But if the rack was earthed ?

Oh, for Pete's sake! This is not a catering kitchen we're talking about,
just an ordinary domestic one; the "rack" in question sounds like a
little wire basket a few inches across. What else do you suggest we
earth: a bread bin (I've had a metal one mounted on the wall in a
previous home)?

cant u guys take a joke !!!

Peter

In article ,
Peter wrote:
Yes; I recently helped with the installation of a complete kitchen
where all the appliances were built in, and every one, except for the
oven, came fitted with a lead and plug.

This is not the problem its the additional means of isolation thats
required

You keep saying this. To isolate something with a 13 amp plug, unplug it.
And if you feel the sockets are in an unsuitable place - like behind the
machine - it will be *far* less work to move them or add new ones than to
neatly install switches in an accessible position. And there's a good
chance the lady of the house won't know which ones do what anyway in a so
called emergency, as they won't be in regular use.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Peter wrote:
You only have to look at the poor unfortunate woman who was killed by
the wall mounted rack. It was the good bonding on the dishwasher that
meant that sufficient current was available to kill her. Obviously,
I'm not suggesting that you don't bond the dishwasher, just that if
you have metal parts, then isolation is preferable to earthing.

But if the rack was earthed ?

Do you earth the metal knifes and forks as well?

--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
And there's a good
chance the lady of the house won't know which ones do what anyway in a so
called emergency, as they won't be in regular use.

Absolutely true. This is the main reason I regularly turn off the
"master isolator" for the eletrickles in our teens' music/TV/puter room
when going to bed at night: they have to turn it to the On position when
using any kit in there the next day, so they most definitely do know
where it is. Hard to do that sort of behvioural modification for kitchen
appliances, though - their front panel provides all the control needed
in normal use, and as some of them have timers and so on, a "master
isolator" isn't something you could reliably and conveniently operate
daily anyway.

Stefek

Do you earth the metal knifes and forks as well?

springy leads work best with wrist straps

Peter

You keep saying this. To isolate something with a 13 amp plug, unplug it.
And if you feel the sockets are in an unsuitable place - like behind the
machine - it will be *far* less work to move them or add new ones than to
neatly install switches in an accessible position.

Correct except that in the case of fixed appliances would no longer be
earthed the regulation states that "the switch and fuse (not rated above
13a) or circuit breaker (not rated above 15 a) must be fixed adjacent to or
onto, the fixed stationary appliance"