On 06/05/2021 16:49, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 06/05/2021 12:55, jon wrote:

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation, convection or
conduction so how come efficiency becomes a problem.


Efficacy?

That will do, for the pedants

--
€œThe urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the
urge to rule it.€�
€“ H. L. Mencken

On Thu, 6 May 2021 20:23:13 +0100, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered yet again:


Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

A very wide horizontal
radiator would work better as far as heating the
air is concerned.

Not in all cases, as demonstrated by the paper in real home situations.

Let me guess: you REFUSE to accept that are getting trolled by the senile
trolling pest from Australia, just so that you can continue with your
notorious smartassing! G

On Fri, 7 May 2021 05:24:31 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 06/05/2021 20:24, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2021 18:29, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Robin wrote
jon wrote

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation,
convection or conduction so how come efficiency becomes a problem.

As I think I said the last time this came up, my physics is
nowhere near good enough to decide "by inspection" whether a
vertical or horizontal radiator is better at transferring heat to
a room.

Yes, you clearly have that problem. Plenty of us dont.

I don't know why you say that,

Because its true ?Â* Novel concept I realise.

as the chimney effect can sometimes be very good at providing a good
airflow.

They both have that. The difference is that the
horizontal radiators have the air moving over
much less of the radiator so the radiator has
more cold air moving over it and so you will
see more heat moving out of the radiator
into the airstream.

So at first sight it's not obvious which orientation is best.

Only for those who dont have a clue about the basics.

Only those with hindsight will think differently.

Wrong.

And (like some others)

Who have the same problem.

I saw too many /known/ unknowns - e.g laminar flow? temperature of
air exiting top? chimney effect? - quite apart from the possible
unknown^2

None of that matters. What matters is the vertical distance.

There is no chimney effect with a radiator.

The gap between the radiator and the wall and radiator height will
determine air speed over the radiator.

But that isnt different with the two types of radiator.

What matter is the distance that the cold air at the bottom of
the radiator moves over before it gets to the top of the radiator.

If you think differently, please feel free to cite an explanation
why this isn't the case.

Just did. And dont need a cite, just an explanation.

You haven't explained why a larger temperature difference within an
enclosed space such as a flue or the space around a radiator won't
create a bigger draught when we know the opposite is generally true.

This paper for instance:
Â* http://cit.edu.ly/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/15-091.pdf

University of Zawia, hardly one of the world's great universitys.

A preferred reference over one individual whose chosen speciality is
claimed to be chemistry.

And they only use aspect ratios up to 2 and no verticals, so
none of that paper is relevant anyway.

It's infinitely better than any cite you've made to backup your claims.

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly dependent
on wall height.

Ah yes:

https://groups.google.com/g/uk.d-i-y...m/lwVTe0U-U3YJ

Fredxx wrote
On 06/05/2021 20:08, Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly dependent on
wall height.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

A very wide horizontal radiator would work better as far as heating the
air is concerned.

Not in all cases, as demonstrated by the paper in real home situations.

Says he carefully and flagrantly dishonestly
snipping what I said is the reason for that.

On 06/05/2021 16:49, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 06/05/2021 12:55, jon wrote:

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation, convection or
conduction so how come efficiency becomes a problem.


Efficacy?


I suppose the issue is that hot air rises. Vertical radiators heat the
upper layers, so you can end up with a layer of cold air near the floor,
which is where you sit...

Dave

On Fri, 7 May 2021 07:59:03 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Robin wrote
jon wrote

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation, convection
or conduction so how come efficiency becomes a problem.

As I think I said the last time this came up, my physics is nowhere
near good enough to decide "by inspection" whether a vertical or
horizontal radiator is better at transferring heat to a room.

Yes, you clearly have that problem. Plenty of us dont.

I don't know why you say that,

Because its true ? Novel concept I realise.

as the chimney effect can sometimes be very good at providing a good
airflow.

They both have that. The difference is that the
horizontal radiators have the air moving over
much less of the radiator so the radiator has
more cold air moving over it and so you will
see more heat moving out of the radiator
into the airstream.

So at first sight it's not obvious which orientation is best.

Only for those who dont have a clue about the basics.

Only those with hindsight will think differently.

Wrong.

And (like some others)

Who have the same problem.

I saw too many /known/ unknowns - e.g laminar flow? temperature of
air exiting top? chimney effect? - quite apart from the possible
unknown^2

None of that matters. What matters is the vertical distance.

There is no chimney effect with a radiator.

The gap between the radiator and the wall and radiator height will
determine air speed over the radiator.

But that isnt different with the two types of radiator.

What matter is the distance that the cold air at the bottom of
the radiator moves over before it gets to the top of the radiator.

If you think differently, please feel free to cite an explanation why
this isn't the case.

Just did. And dont need a cite, just an explanation.

You haven't explained why a larger temperature difference within an
enclosed space such as a flue or the space around a radiator won't
create a bigger draught when we know the opposite is generally true.

This paper for instance:
http://cit.edu.ly/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/15-091.pdf

University of Zawia, hardly one of the world's great universitys.

A preferred reference over one individual whose chosen speciality is
claimed to be chemistry.

Another of your bare faced lies. Your trademark.

And they only use aspect ratios up to 2 and no verticals, so none of that
paper is relevant anyway.

It's infinitely better than any cite you've made to backup your claims.

No cite required with the basic physics at the front of the
radiator which is where most of the heat comes from and
it isnt a claim, its a fact with the length of the path of the
cold air from the bottom of the radiator, you pathetic
excuse for a flagrantly dishonest lying bull**** artist.

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly dependent on
wall height.

Ah yes:

https://groups.google.com/g/uk.d-i-y...m/lwVTe0U-U3YJ

On Fri, 7 May 2021 08:35:47 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

David Wade wrote

I suppose the issue is that hot air rises.

Yes.

Vertical radiators heat the upper layers,

In fact the bulk of the heat added to the room
is by the convection up the front of the radiator.

so you can end up with a layer of cold
air near the floor, which is where you sit...

Only because vertical radiators add less heat to the room.

On 06/05/2021 23:35, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Robin wrote
jon wrote

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation,
convection or conduction so how come efficiency becomes a problem.

As I think I said the last time this came up, my physics is
nowhere near good enough to decide "by inspection" whether a
vertical or horizontal radiator is better at transferring heat
to a room.

Yes, you clearly have that problem. Plenty of us dont.

I don't know why you say that,

Because its true ?Â* Novel concept I realise.

as the chimney effect can sometimes be very good at providing a
good airflow.

They both have that. The difference is that the
horizontal radiators have the air moving over
much less of the radiator so the radiator has
more cold air moving over it and so you will
see more heat moving out of the radiator
into the airstream.

So at first sight it's not obvious which orientation is best.

Only for those who dont have a clue about the basics.

Only those with hindsight will think differently.

Wrong.

And (like some others)

Who have the same problem.

I saw too many /known/ unknowns - e.g laminar flow? temperature
of air exiting top? chimney effect? - quite apart from the
possible unknown^2

None of that matters. What matters is the vertical distance.

There is no chimney effect with a radiator.

The gap between the radiator and the wall and radiator height will
determine air speed over the radiator.

But that isnt different with the two types of radiator.

What matter is the distance that the cold air at the bottom of
the radiator moves over before it gets to the top of the radiator.

If you think differently, please feel free to cite an explanation
why this isn't the case.

Just did. And dont need a cite, just an explanation.

You haven't explained why a larger temperature difference within an
enclosed space such as a flue or the space around a radiator won't
create a bigger draught when we know the opposite is generally true.

This paper for instance:
Â* http://cit.edu.ly/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/15-091.pdf

University of Zawia, hardly one of the world's great universitys.

A preferred reference over one individual whose chosen speciality is
claimed to be chemistry.

Another of your bare faced lies. Your trademark.

My trademark is to cite the source of my accusations. You confirmed you
were a chemist in a thread titled "Ethanol".

If you can't recall then senility has crept up with you. Denial and
senility go together.

And they only use aspect ratios up to 2 and no verticals, so none of
that paper is relevant anyway.

It's infinitely better than any cite you've made to backup your claims.

No cite required with the basic physics at the front of the
radiator which is where most of the heat comes from and
it isnt a claim, its a fact with the length of the path of the
cold air from the bottom of the radiator, you pathetic
excuse for a flagrantly dishonest lying bull**** artist.

It is a fact that the aspect ratio of a radiator as well as the height
of the room vs radiator heigh determine the efficacy of a radiator. But
wider vs taller isn't always an optimum choice.

You are like T i m who resorts to abuse when their "facts" no longer
match real world examples, however hard they wish they did.


suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

Ah yes:

https://groups.google.com/g/uk.d-i-y...m/lwVTe0U-U3YJ

On 06/05/2021 22:59, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
On 06/05/2021 20:08, Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

Read the paper again. Even your earlier post whinged that they only
considered aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

A very wide horizontal radiator would work better as far as heating
the air is concerned.

Not in all cases, as demonstrated by the paper in real home situations.

Says he carefully and flagrantly dishonestly
snipping what I said is the reason for that.

Is that agreement?

Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
On 06/05/2021 20:08, Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly dependent
on wall height.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

Read the paper again.

No need.

Even your earlier post whinged

More of your bare faced lies. I actually
rubbed you stupid nose in that fact.

that they only considered aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

Thats not the vertical radiators we are discussing
which are well outside that range.

A very wide horizontal radiator would work better as far as heating the
air is concerned.

Not in all cases, as demonstrated by the paper in real home situations.

Says he carefully and flagrantly dishonestly
snipping what I said is the reason for that.

Is that agreement?

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

On 07/05/2021 01:20, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
On 06/05/2021 20:08, Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

Read the paper again.

No need.

Even your earlier post whinged

More of your bare faced lies. I actually
rubbed you stupid nose in that fact.

that they only considered aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

Thats not the vertical radiators we are discussing
which are well outside that range.

So an agreement that efficacy in terms of aspect ration is dependent on
a number of circumstances, and that a "very wide horizontal
radiator" wouldn't necessarily "work better as far as heating the
air is concerned".

A very wide horizontal radiator would work better as far as heating
the air is concerned.

Not in all cases, as demonstrated by the paper in real home situations.

Says he carefully and flagrantly dishonestly
snipping what I said is the reason for that.

Is that agreement?

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Another sign of a lost argument.

Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
On 06/05/2021 20:08, Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

It doesnt even say that.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

Read the paper again.

No need.

It isnt even relevant, its discussing the wall
treatment and the gap between the radiator
and the wall which isnt where most of the
heat from the radiator gets into the room.

Even your earlier post whinged

More of your bare faced lies. I actually
rubbed you stupid nose in that fact.

that they only considered aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

Thats not the vertical radiators we are discussing
which are well outside that range.

So an agreement that efficacy in terms of aspect ration is dependent on a
number of circumstances,

Nope, what matters is the main effect, the vertical distance
the cold air moves over with both types of radiator. Thats
much worse with vertical radiators and is the reason they
dont work as well as horizontal radiators do.

and that a "very wide horizontal radiator" wouldn't necessarily "work
better as far as heating the air is concerned".

For a completely different reason, the difference
in the surface temp at each end of the radiator.

A very wide horizontal radiator would work better as far as heating
the air is concerned.

And there you go again, flagrantly dishonestly stripping
that para out of the context, your trademark.

Not in all cases, as demonstrated by the paper in real home
situations.

Says he carefully and flagrantly dishonestly
snipping what I said is the reason for that.

Is that agreement?

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

reams of your flagrantly dishonest **** and lies flushed where it belongs

On 07/05/2021 00:47, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Robin wrote
jon wrote

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation,
convection or conduction so how come efficiency becomes a
problem.

As I think I said the last time this came up, my physics is
nowhere near good enough to decide "by inspection" whether a
vertical or horizontal radiator is better at transferring heat
to a room.

Yes, you clearly have that problem. Plenty of us dont.

I don't know why you say that,

Because its true ?Â* Novel concept I realise.

as the chimney effect can sometimes be very good at providing a
good airflow.

They both have that. The difference is that the
horizontal radiators have the air moving over
much less of the radiator so the radiator has
more cold air moving over it and so you will
see more heat moving out of the radiator
into the airstream.

So at first sight it's not obvious which orientation is best.

Only for those who dont have a clue about the basics.

Only those with hindsight will think differently.

Wrong.

And (like some others)

Who have the same problem.

I saw too many /known/ unknowns - e.g laminar flow?
temperature of air exiting top? chimney effect? - quite apart
from the possible unknown^2

None of that matters. What matters is the vertical distance.

There is no chimney effect with a radiator.

The gap between the radiator and the wall and radiator height
will determine air speed over the radiator.

But that isnt different with the two types of radiator.

What matter is the distance that the cold air at the bottom of
the radiator moves over before it gets to the top of the radiator.

If you think differently, please feel free to cite an
explanation why this isn't the case.

Just did. And dont need a cite, just an explanation.

You haven't explained why a larger temperature difference within
an enclosed space such as a flue or the space around a radiator
won't create a bigger draught when we know the opposite is
generally true.

This paper for instance:
Â* http://cit.edu.ly/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/15-091.pdf

University of Zawia, hardly one of the world's great universitys.

A preferred reference over one individual whose chosen speciality is
claimed to be chemistry.

Another of your bare faced lies. Your trademark.

My trademark is to cite the source of my accusations.

You clearly didnt with that allegation just above,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You confirmed you were a chemist in a thread titled "Ethanol".

I did nothing of the sort, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

And you provided no cite for that lie either.

No lie, just senility on your part:
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...-3102366-3.htm

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

It's good you can read, too.


And they only use aspect ratios up to 2 and no verticals, so none
of that paper is relevant anyway.

It's infinitely better than any cite you've made to backup your claims.

No cite required with the basic physics at the front of the
radiator which is where most of the heat comes from and
it isnt a claim, its a fact with the length of the path of the
cold air from the bottom of the radiator, you pathetic
excuse for a flagrantly dishonest lying bull**** artist.

It is a fact that the aspect ratio of a radiator as well as the height
of the room vs radiator heigh determine the efficacy of a radiator.

The aspect ratio is covered by the terms horizontal and vertical with the
radiators being discussed, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

No BS, a well reasoned argument you can't answer except with abuse. Your
trademark

But wider vs taller isn't always an optimum choice.

More drivel with the radiators being discussed,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Quite, the paper was discussing aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2. You can read,
can't you?
reams of your **** and lies any 2 year old could
leave for dead flushed where it belongs

The sign of a lost argument.

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

Ah yes:

https://groups.google.com/g/uk.d-i-y...m/lwVTe0U-U3YJ

On 07/05/2021 02:15, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
On 06/05/2021 20:08, Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

It doesnt even say that.

I'm sorry if you can't understand the paper.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

Read the paper again.

No need.

It isnt even relevant, its discussing the wall
treatment and the gap between the radiator
and the wall which isnt where most of the
heat from the radiator gets into the room.

And a function of radiator aspect ratio, ie height and width of radiator.

Even your earlier post whinged

More of your bare faced lies. I actually
rubbed you stupid nose in that fact.

that they only considered aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

Thats not the vertical radiators we are discussing
which are well outside that range.

So an agreement that efficacy in terms of aspect ration is dependent
on a number of circumstances,

Nope, what matters is the main effect, the vertical distance
the cold air moves over with both types of radiator. Thats
much worse with vertical radiators and is the reason they
dont work as well as horizontal radiators do.

The paper gives instances where that's not the case.

and that a "very wide horizontal radiator" wouldn't necessarily "work
better as far as heating the air is concerned".

For a completely different reason, the difference
in the surface temp at each end of the radiator.

So an admission there is an optimum aspect ratio, and wider is not
necessarily better.

A very wide horizontal radiator would work better as far as
heating the air is concerned.

And there you go again, flagrantly dishonestly stripping
that para out of the context, your trademark.

Did you not say that? Or have you simply forgotten you said it?

Not in all cases, as demonstrated by the paper in real home
situations.

Says he carefully and flagrantly dishonestly
snipping what I said is the reason for that.

Is that agreement?

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

reams of your flagrantly dishonest **** and lies flushed where it belongs

QED

Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Robin wrote
jon wrote

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation,
convection or conduction so how come efficiency becomes a
problem.

As I think I said the last time this came up, my physics is
nowhere near good enough to decide "by inspection" whether a
vertical or horizontal radiator is better at transferring heat
to a room.

Yes, you clearly have that problem. Plenty of us dont.

I don't know why you say that,

Because its true ? Novel concept I realise.

as the chimney effect can sometimes be very good at providing a
good airflow.

They both have that. The difference is that the
horizontal radiators have the air moving over
much less of the radiator so the radiator has
more cold air moving over it and so you will
see more heat moving out of the radiator
into the airstream.

So at first sight it's not obvious which orientation is best.

Only for those who dont have a clue about the basics.

Only those with hindsight will think differently.

Wrong.

And (like some others)

Who have the same problem.

I saw too many /known/ unknowns - e.g laminar flow? temperature
of air exiting top? chimney effect? - quite apart from the
possible unknown^2

None of that matters. What matters is the vertical distance.

There is no chimney effect with a radiator.

The gap between the radiator and the wall and radiator height will
determine air speed over the radiator.

But that isnt different with the two types of radiator.

What matter is the distance that the cold air at the bottom of
the radiator moves over before it gets to the top of the radiator.

If you think differently, please feel free to cite an explanation
why this isn't the case.

Just did. And dont need a cite, just an explanation.

You haven't explained why a larger temperature difference within an
enclosed space such as a flue or the space around a radiator won't
create a bigger draught when we know the opposite is generally true.

This paper for instance:
http://cit.edu.ly/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/15-091.pdf

University of Zawia, hardly one of the world's great universitys.

A preferred reference over one individual whose chosen speciality is
claimed to be chemistry.

Another of your bare faced lies. Your trademark.

My trademark is to cite the source of my accusations.

You clearly didnt with that allegation just above,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

You confirmed you were a chemist in a thread titled "Ethanol".

I did nothing of the sort, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

And you provided no cite for that lie either.

No lie, just senility on your part:

We'll see...

https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...-3102366-3.htm

and I thought you had a chemical background?

Thats not saying I was ever a chemist, ****wit.

My BSc did indeed major in chemistry.

My research degree was in physical
chemistry and involved no chemistry,
only electronics and computing.

I can read, too.

And they only use aspect ratios up to 2 and no verticals, so none of
that paper is relevant anyway.

It's infinitely better than any cite you've made to backup your
claims.

No cite required with the basic physics at the front of the
radiator which is where most of the heat comes from and
it isnt a claim, its a fact with the length of the path of the
cold air from the bottom of the radiator, you pathetic
excuse for a flagrantly dishonest lying bull**** artist.

It is a fact that the aspect ratio of a radiator as well as the height
of the room vs radiator heigh determine the efficacy of a radiator.

The aspect ratio is covered by the terms horizontal and vertical with the
radiators being discussed, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

No BS,

Nothing but mindless pig ignorant bull****.

a well reasoned argument

More bare faced lies. You cant even manage to
work out that that paper you waved around is
actually discussing the gap between the radiator
and the wall, not how effectively the front of
the radiator towards the room is heating the air
convecting up the front of it which is the main
way in which the radiator is heating the room.

you can't answer except with abuse.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are
lying thru your ****ing teeth, as you always do
when you have got done like a ****ing dinner,
as you always are. Your trademark.

But wider vs taller isn't always an optimum choice.

More drivel with the radiators being discussed,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Quite, the paper was discussing aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

But the vertical radiators being discussed
are well outside that, ****wit.

reams of your **** and lies any 2 year old could
leave for dead flushed where it belongs

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

Ah yes:

https://groups.google.com/g/uk.d-i-y...m/lwVTe0U-U3YJ

Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

It doesnt even say that.

I'm sorry if you can't understand the paper.

Pathetic.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

Read the paper again.

No need.

It isnt even relevant, its discussing the wall
treatment and the gap between the radiator
and the wall which isnt where most of the
heat from the radiator gets into the room.

And a function of radiator aspect ratio, ie height and width of radiator.

A characteristic, actually. And given that they
dont even consider the aspect ratio that is seen
with the vertical radiators being discussed, you
you are face down in the mud, as always.

Even your earlier post whinged

More of your bare faced lies. I actually
rubbed you stupid nose in that fact.

that they only considered aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

Thats not the vertical radiators we are discussing
which are well outside that range.

So an agreement that efficacy in terms of aspect ration is dependent on
a number of circumstances,

Nope, what matters is the main effect, the vertical distance
the cold air moves over with both types of radiator. Thats
much worse with vertical radiators and is the reason they
dont work as well as horizontal radiators do.

The paper gives instances where that's not the case.

Not with what we are discussing the main movement
of heat from the side front of the radiator facing the
room when the only difference is whether the radiator
is horizontal or vertical it doesnt.

and that a "very wide horizontal radiator" wouldn't necessarily "work
better as far as heating the air is concerned".

For a completely different reason, the difference
in the surface temp at each end of the radiator.

So an admission there is an optimum aspect ratio,

Nope, because there isnt.

and wider is not necessarily better.

I said that right from the start, ****wit.

A very wide horizontal radiator would work better as far as heating
the air is concerned.

And there you go again, flagrantly dishonestly stripping
that para out of the context, your trademark.

Did you not say that?

In fact I said a lot more than just that in the
next para that you flagrantly dishonestly
deleted from the quoting, you pathetic excuse
for a flagrantly dishonest bull**** artist.

reams of your lying **** any 2 year old could
leave for dead flushed where it belongs

Not in all cases, as demonstrated by the paper in real home
situations.

Says he carefully and flagrantly dishonestly
snipping what I said is the reason for that.

Is that agreement?

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

reams of your flagrantly dishonest **** and lies flushed where it belongs

On 06/05/2021 23:19, David Wade wrote:
On 06/05/2021 16:49, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 06/05/2021 12:55, jon wrote:

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation, convection or
conduction so how come efficiency becomes a problem.


Efficacy?


I suppose the issue is that hot air rises. Vertical radiators heat the
upper layers, so you can end up with a layer of cold air near the floor,
which is where you sit...

Dave

It's one of the reasons to put a horizontal radiator under a window to
help prevent the cold flow of air at foot level. The cold air flow
caused by the window is met with the rising hot air flow from the
radiator thus circulation only warm air. Having cold feet can make you
feel a lot colder that it actually is.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 7 May 2021 02:34:03 +0100, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:


QED

Indeed! The fact that HE is a senile troll and that YOU are a troll-feeding
senile asshole!

On Fri, 7 May 2021 02:16:43 +0100, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:


The sign of a lost argument.

He CAN'T "lose" any argument as long as you keep feeding the troll, you
troll-feeding senile smartass!

On Fri, 7 May 2021 09:22:50 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rodent Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On 07/05/2021 03:15, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Robin wrote
jon wrote

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation,
convection or conduction so how come efficiency becomes a
problem.

As I think I said the last time this came up, my physics is
nowhere near good enough to decide "by inspection" whether a
vertical or horizontal radiator is better at transferring
heat to a room.

Yes, you clearly have that problem. Plenty of us dont.

I don't know why you say that,

Because its true ?Â* Novel concept I realise.

as the chimney effect can sometimes be very good at providing
a good airflow.

They both have that. The difference is that the
horizontal radiators have the air moving over
much less of the radiator so the radiator has
more cold air moving over it and so you will
see more heat moving out of the radiator
into the airstream.

So at first sight it's not obvious which orientation is best.

Only for those who dont have a clue about the basics.

Only those with hindsight will think differently.

Wrong.

And (like some others)

Who have the same problem.

I saw too many /known/ unknowns - e.g laminar flow?
temperature of air exiting top? chimney effect? - quite
apart from the possible unknown^2

None of that matters. What matters is the vertical distance.

There is no chimney effect with a radiator.

The gap between the radiator and the wall and radiator height
will determine air speed over the radiator.

But that isnt different with the two types of radiator.

What matter is the distance that the cold air at the bottom of
the radiator moves over before it gets to the top of the radiator.

If you think differently, please feel free to cite an
explanation why this isn't the case.

Just did. And dont need a cite, just an explanation.

You haven't explained why a larger temperature difference within
an enclosed space such as a flue or the space around a radiator
won't create a bigger draught when we know the opposite is
generally true.

This paper for instance:
Â* http://cit.edu.ly/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/15-091.pdf

University of Zawia, hardly one of the world's great universitys.

A preferred reference over one individual whose chosen speciality
is claimed to be chemistry.

Another of your bare faced lies. Your trademark.

My trademark is to cite the source of my accusations.

You clearly didnt with that allegation just above,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

I did, just you don't like the fact or remember saying it.

You confirmed you were a chemist in a thread titled "Ethanol".

I did nothing of the sort, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

And you provided no cite for that lie either.

No lie, just senility on your part:

We'll see...

Â* https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...-3102366-3.htm

and I thought you had a chemical background?

Thats not saying I was ever a chemist, ****wit.

No, but it was what you said. On an even earlier thread you eluded to
being a chemist, hence my comment.

My BSc did indeed major in chemistry.

My research degree was in physical
chemistry and involved no chemistry,
only electronics and computing.

Then you were had with being offered a physical-chemistry course.

I can read, too.

And they only use aspect ratios up to 2 and no verticals, so none
of that paper is relevant anyway.

It's infinitely better than any cite you've made to backup your
claims.

No cite required with the basic physics at the front of the
radiator which is where most of the heat comes from and
it isnt a claim, its a fact with the length of the path of the
cold air from the bottom of the radiator, you pathetic
excuse for a flagrantly dishonest lying bull**** artist.

It is a fact that the aspect ratio of a radiator as well as the
height of the room vs radiator heigh determine the efficacy of a
radiator.

The aspect ratio is covered by the terms horizontal and vertical with
the
radiators being discussed, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

No BS,

Nothing but mindless pig ignorant bull****.

a well reasoned argument

More bare faced lies. You cant even manage to
work out that that paper you waved around is
actually discussing the gap between the radiator
and the wall, not how effectively the front of
the radiator towards the room is heating the air
convecting up the front of it which is the main
way in which the radiator is heating the room.

To you facts you can't counter are always bare faced lies.

you can't answer except with abuse.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are
lying thru your ****ing teeth, as you always do
when you have got done like a ****ing dinner,
as you always are. Your trademark.

Quite, everyone can see the article and can see wider is not always better.

But wider vs taller isn't always an optimum choice.

More drivel with the radiators being discussed,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Quite, the paper was discussing aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

But the vertical radiators being discussed
are well outside that, ****wit.

You made an unqualified statement and got found out.

reams of your **** and lies any 2 year old could
leave for dead flushed where it belongs

Yep, another indication of a lost argument.

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

Ah yes:

https://groups.google.com/g/uk.d-i-y...m/lwVTe0U-U3YJ

On 07/05/2021 03:34, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

It doesnt even say that.

I'm sorry if you can't understand the paper.

Pathetic.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

Read the paper again.

No need.

It isnt even relevant, its discussing the wall
treatment and the gap between the radiator
and the wall which isnt where most of the
heat from the radiator gets into the room.

And a function of radiator aspect ratio, ie height and width of radiator.

A characteristic, actually. And given that they
dont even consider the aspect ratio that is seen
with the vertical radiators being discussed, you
you are face down in the mud, as always.

Even your earlier post whinged

More of your bare faced lies. I actually
rubbed you stupid nose in that fact.

that they only considered aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

Thats not the vertical radiators we are discussing
which are well outside that range.

So an agreement that efficacy in terms of aspect ration is dependent
on a number of circumstances,

Nope, what matters is the main effect, the vertical distance
the cold air moves over with both types of radiator. Thats
much worse with vertical radiators and is the reason they
dont work as well as horizontal radiators do.

The paper gives instances where that's not the case.

Not with what we are discussing the main movement
of heat from the side front of the radiator facing the
room when the only difference is whether the radiator
is horizontal or vertical it doesnt.

and that a "very wide horizontal radiator" wouldn't necessarily
"work better as far as heating the air is concerned".

For a completely different reason, the difference
in the surface temp at each end of the radiator.

So an admission there is an optimum aspect ratio,

Nope, because there isnt.

And the cited article suggests otherwise. You are entitled to disagree
but come up with a source for your claim. You won't because you can't.

and wider is not necessarily better.

I said that right from the start, ****wit.

You didn't, you made an unqualified statement and got found out.

A very wide horizontal radiator would work better as far as
heating the air is concerned.

And there you go again, flagrantly dishonestly stripping
that para out of the context, your trademark.

Did you not say that?

In fact I said a lot more than just that

Good, we have moved forward.

in the
next para that you flagrantly dishonestly
deleted from the quoting, you pathetic excuse
for a flagrantly dishonest bull**** artist.

reams of your lying **** any 2 year old could
leave for dead flushed where it belongs

More indication of a lost argument.

Not in all cases, as demonstrated by the paper in real home
situations.

Says he carefully and flagrantly dishonestly
snipping what I said is the reason for that.

Is that agreement?

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

reams of your flagrantly dishonest **** and lies flushed where it belongs

More indication of a lost argument.

On 07/05/2021 08:12, alan_m wrote:
On 06/05/2021 23:19, David Wade wrote:
On 06/05/2021 16:49, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 06/05/2021 12:55, jon wrote:

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation, convection or
conduction so how come efficiency becomes a problem.


Efficacy?


I suppose the issue is that hot air rises. Vertical radiators heat the
upper layers, so you can end up with a layer of cold air near the
floor, which is where you sit...

Dave

It's one of the reasons to put a horizontal radiator under a window to
help prevent the cold flow of air at foot level.Â* The cold air flow
caused by the window is met with the rising hot air flow from the
radiator thus circulation only warm air. Having cold feet can make you
feel a lot colder that it actually is.

That is my policy too. I once lived in a house where the radiator was on
the other side of the room, and you could feel the cold air simply
dropping from the window.

On Fri, 7 May 2021 13:26:52 +0100, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:


reams of your flagrantly dishonest **** and lies flushed where it belongs

More indication of a lost argument.

And always more swallowing of the trolling senile asshole's baits, on your
part, senile smartass! BG

On Fri, 7 May 2021 13:23:02 +0100, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:


reams of your **** and lies any 2 year old could
leave for dead flushed where it belongs

Yep, another indication of a lost argument.

NOT as long as you keep swallowing the senile troll's baits, senile asshole!
tsk

Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Robin wrote
jon wrote

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation,
convection or conduction so how come efficiency becomes a
problem.

As I think I said the last time this came up, my physics is
nowhere near good enough to decide "by inspection" whether a
vertical or horizontal radiator is better at transferring heat
to a room.

Yes, you clearly have that problem. Plenty of us dont.

I don't know why you say that,

Because its true ? Novel concept I realise.

as the chimney effect can sometimes be very good at providing a
good airflow.

They both have that. The difference is that the
horizontal radiators have the air moving over
much less of the radiator so the radiator has
more cold air moving over it and so you will
see more heat moving out of the radiator
into the airstream.

So at first sight it's not obvious which orientation is best.

Only for those who dont have a clue about the basics.

Only those with hindsight will think differently.

Wrong.

And (like some others)

Who have the same problem.

I saw too many /known/ unknowns - e.g laminar flow?
temperature of air exiting top? chimney effect? - quite apart
from the possible unknown^2

None of that matters. What matters is the vertical distance.

There is no chimney effect with a radiator.

The gap between the radiator and the wall and radiator height
will determine air speed over the radiator.

But that isnt different with the two types of radiator.

What matter is the distance that the cold air at the bottom of
the radiator moves over before it gets to the top of the
radiator.

If you think differently, please feel free to cite an
explanation why this isn't the case.

Just did. And dont need a cite, just an explanation.

You haven't explained why a larger temperature difference within
an enclosed space such as a flue or the space around a radiator
won't create a bigger draught when we know the opposite is
generally true.

This paper for instance:
http://cit.edu.ly/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/15-091.pdf

University of Zawia, hardly one of the world's great universitys.

A preferred reference over one individual whose chosen speciality is
claimed to be chemistry.

Another of your bare faced lies. Your trademark.

My trademark is to cite the source of my accusations.

You clearly didnt with that allegation just above,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

I did,

Everyone can see for themselves that you didnt.

just you don't like the fact

No such fact.

or remember saying it.

I never said that.

You confirmed you were a chemist in a thread titled "Ethanol".

I did nothing of the sort, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

And you provided no cite for that lie either.

No lie, just senility on your part:

We'll see...

https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...-3102366-3.htm

and I thought you had a chemical background?

Thats not saying I was ever a chemist, ****wit.

No, but it was what you said. On an even earlier thread you eluded to
being a chemist,

No I did not.

hence my comment.

Which was another of your lies.

My BSc did indeed major in chemistry.

My research degree was in physical
chemistry and involved no chemistry,
only electronics and computing.

Then you were had with being offered a physical-chemistry course.

It wasnt a course, it was a research degree.

I can read, too.

And they only use aspect ratios up to 2 and no verticals, so none
of that paper is relevant anyway.

It's infinitely better than any cite you've made to backup your
claims.

No cite required with the basic physics at the front of the
radiator which is where most of the heat comes from and
it isnt a claim, its a fact with the length of the path of the
cold air from the bottom of the radiator, you pathetic
excuse for a flagrantly dishonest lying bull**** artist.

It is a fact that the aspect ratio of a radiator as well as the height
of the room vs radiator heigh determine the efficacy of a radiator.

The aspect ratio is covered by the terms horizontal and vertical with
the radiators being discussed, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

No BS,

Nothing but mindless pig ignorant bull****.

a well reasoned argument

More bare faced lies. You cant even manage to
work out that that paper you waved around is
actually discussing the gap between the radiator
and the wall, not how effectively the front of
the radiator towards the room is heating the air
convecting up the front of it which is the main
way in which the radiator is heating the room.

To you facts you can't counter

I did counter that claimed fact, you lying bull**** artist.

you can't answer except with abuse.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are
lying thru your ****ing teeth, as you always do
when you have got done like a ****ing dinner,
as you always are. Your trademark.

Quite, everyone can see the article and can see wider is not always
better.

I never ever said that wider is always better,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

In fact I actually said the exact opposite and you carefully
and flagrantly dishonestly deleted that from the quoting.

But wider vs taller isn't always an optimum choice.

More drivel with the radiators being discussed,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Quite, the paper was discussing aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

But the vertical radiators being discussed
are well outside that, ****wit.

You made an unqualified statement

Like hell I did, you flagrantly dishonestly deleted
the qualification that was right after that sentence
from the quoting. And since this lying **** is the
best you can manage, here goes the chain on
the rest of your lying **** and flagrant dishonesty
you always end up with when you have got done
line a ****ing dinner, as you always are.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2021 03:34, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

It doesnt even say that.

I'm sorry if you can't understand the paper.

Pathetic.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

Read the paper again.

No need.

It isnt even relevant, its discussing the wall
treatment and the gap between the radiator
and the wall which isnt where most of the
heat from the radiator gets into the room.

And a function of radiator aspect ratio, ie height and width of
radiator.

A characteristic, actually. And given that they
dont even consider the aspect ratio that is seen
with the vertical radiators being discussed, you
you are face down in the mud, as always.

Even your earlier post whinged

More of your bare faced lies. I actually
rubbed you stupid nose in that fact.

that they only considered aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

Thats not the vertical radiators we are discussing
which are well outside that range.

So an agreement that efficacy in terms of aspect ration is dependent
on a number of circumstances,

Nope, what matters is the main effect, the vertical distance
the cold air moves over with both types of radiator. Thats
much worse with vertical radiators and is the reason they
dont work as well as horizontal radiators do.

The paper gives instances where that's not the case.

Not with what we are discussing the main movement
of heat from the side front of the radiator facing the
room when the only difference is whether the radiator
is horizontal or vertical it doesnt.

and that a "very wide horizontal radiator" wouldn't necessarily "work
better as far as heating the air is concerned".

For a completely different reason, the difference
in the surface temp at each end of the radiator.

So an admission there is an optimum aspect ratio,

Nope, because there isnt.

And the cited article suggests otherwise.

Like hell it does and it doesnt even discuss the main
way heat comes from the radiator into the room, via
the front of the radiator facing the room.

All the rest of your even sillier ****, lies and
flagrant dishonesty flushed where it belongs.

On Sat, 8 May 2021 06:01:03 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

And the cited article suggests otherwise.

Like hell it does and it doesn¢t even discuss the main
way heat comes from the radiator into the room, via
the front of the radiator facing the room.

All the rest of your even sillier ****, lies and
flagrant dishonesty flushed where it belongs.

Yeah, sock it to him, senile asshole troll! LOL

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Sat, 8 May 2021 05:58:08 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Like hell I did, you flagrantly dishonestly deleted
the qualification that was right after that sentence
from the quoting. And since this lying **** is the
best you can manage, here goes the chain on
the rest of your lying **** and flagrant dishonesty
you always end up with when you have got done
line a ****ing dinner, as you always are.

You can go on like that for the rest of your miserable senile "life", right,
senile Rodent? LOL

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On 07/05/2021 21:01, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2021 03:34, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote

suggests the optimum aspect ratio of the radiator is highly
dependent on wall height.

It doesnt even say that.

I'm sorry if you can't understand the paper.

Pathetic.

Even that is unclear.

The paper makes it clear.

But not for the horizontal and vertical radiators
we are discussing, they dont even consider those.

Read the paper again.

No need.

It isnt even relevant, its discussing the wall
treatment and the gap between the radiator
and the wall which isnt where most of the
heat from the radiator gets into the room.

And a function of radiator aspect ratio, ie height and width of
radiator.

A characteristic, actually. And given that they
dont even consider the aspect ratio that is seen
with the vertical radiators being discussed, you
you are face down in the mud, as always.

Even your earlier post whinged

More of your bare faced lies. I actually
rubbed you stupid nose in that fact.

that they only considered aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

Thats not the vertical radiators we are discussing
which are well outside that range.

So an agreement that efficacy in terms of aspect ration is
dependent on a number of circumstances,

Nope, what matters is the main effect, the vertical distance
the cold air moves over with both types of radiator. Thats
much worse with vertical radiators and is the reason they
dont work as well as horizontal radiators do.

The paper gives instances where that's not the case.

Not with what we are discussing the main movement
of heat from the side front of the radiator facing the
room when the only difference is whether the radiator
is horizontal or vertical it doesnt.

and that a "very wide horizontal radiator" wouldn't necessarily
"work better as far as heating the air is concerned".

For a completely different reason, the difference
in the surface temp at each end of the radiator.

So an admission there is an optimum aspect ratio,

Nope, because there isnt.

And the cited article suggests otherwise.

Like hell it does and it doesnt even discuss the main
way heat comes from the radiator into the room, via
the front of the radiator facing the room.

You said you could read. Please try harder. There are some graphs to assist.

All the rest of your even sillier ****, lies and
flagrant dishonesty flushed where it belongs.

Your record has stuck.

On 07/05/2021 20:58, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Robin wrote
jon wrote

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation,
convection or conduction so how come efficiency becomes a
problem.

As I think I said the last time this came up, my physics
is nowhere near good enough to decide "by inspection"
whether a vertical or horizontal radiator is better at
transferring heat to a room.

Yes, you clearly have that problem. Plenty of us dont.

I don't know why you say that,

Because its true ?Â* Novel concept I realise.

as the chimney effect can sometimes be very good at
providing a good airflow.

They both have that. The difference is that the
horizontal radiators have the air moving over
much less of the radiator so the radiator has
more cold air moving over it and so you will
see more heat moving out of the radiator
into the airstream.

So at first sight it's not obvious which orientation is best.

Only for those who dont have a clue about the basics.

Only those with hindsight will think differently.

Wrong.

And (like some others)

Who have the same problem.

I saw too many /known/ unknowns - e.g laminar flow?
temperature of air exiting top? chimney effect? - quite
apart from the possible unknown^2

None of that matters. What matters is the vertical distance.

There is no chimney effect with a radiator.

The gap between the radiator and the wall and radiator
height will determine air speed over the radiator.

But that isnt different with the two types of radiator.

What matter is the distance that the cold air at the bottom of
the radiator moves over before it gets to the top of the
radiator.

If you think differently, please feel free to cite an
explanation why this isn't the case.

Just did. And dont need a cite, just an explanation.

You haven't explained why a larger temperature difference
within an enclosed space such as a flue or the space around a
radiator won't create a bigger draught when we know the
opposite is generally true.

This paper for instance:
Â* http://cit.edu.ly/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/15-091.pdf

University of Zawia, hardly one of the world's great universitys.

A preferred reference over one individual whose chosen
speciality is claimed to be chemistry.

Another of your bare faced lies. Your trademark.

My trademark is to cite the source of my accusations.

You clearly didnt with that allegation just above,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

I did,

Everyone can see for themselves that you didnt.

just you don't like the fact

No such fact.

or remember saying it.

I never said that.

You confirmed you were a chemist in a thread titled "Ethanol".

I did nothing of the sort, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

And you provided no cite for that lie either.

No lie, just senility on your part:

We'll see...

Â* https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...-3102366-3.htm

and I thought you had a chemical background?

Thats not saying I was ever a chemist, ****wit.

No, but it was what you said. On an even earlier thread you eluded to
being a chemist,

No I did not.

hence my comment.

Which was another of your lies.

Are you now saying you failed your physical chemistry research degree?

My BSc did indeed major in chemistry.

My research degree was in physical
chemistry and involved no chemistry,
only electronics and computing.

Then you were had with being offered a physical-chemistry course.

It wasnt a course, it was a research degree.

So you were had.

I can read, too.

And they only use aspect ratios up to 2 and no verticals, so
none of that paper is relevant anyway.

It's infinitely better than any cite you've made to backup your
claims.

No cite required with the basic physics at the front of the
radiator which is where most of the heat comes from and
it isnt a claim, its a fact with the length of the path of the
cold air from the bottom of the radiator, you pathetic
excuse for a flagrantly dishonest lying bull**** artist.

It is a fact that the aspect ratio of a radiator as well as the
height of the room vs radiator heigh determine the efficacy of a
radiator.

The aspect ratio is covered by the terms horizontal and vertical
with the radiators being discussed, you pathetic excuse for a lying
bull**** artist.

No BS,

Nothing but mindless pig ignorant bull****.

a well reasoned argument

More bare faced lies. You cant even manage to
work out that that paper you waved around is
actually discussing the gap between the radiator
and the wall, not how effectively the front of
the radiator towards the room is heating the air
convecting up the front of it which is the main
way in which the radiator is heating the room.

To you facts you can't counter

I did counter that claimed fact, you lying bull**** artist.

You didn't with any substance. In the end you admitted that wide is not
always best.

you can't answer except with abuse.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are
lying thru your ****ing teeth, as you always do
when you have got done like a ****ing dinner,
as you always are. Your trademark.

Quite, everyone can see the article and can see wider is not always
better.

I never ever said that wider is always better,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Backtracking now. Then we are in agreement.

In fact I actually said the exact opposite and you carefully
and flagrantly dishonestly deleted that from the quoting.

So you agree that wider is not always better. Great.

But wider vs taller isn't always an optimum choice.

More drivel with the radiators being discussed,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

Quite, the paper was discussing aspect ratios of 0.5 to 2.

But the vertical radiators being discussed
are well outside that, ****wit.

You made an unqualified statement

Like hell I did, you flagrantly dishonestly deleted
the qualification that was right after that sentence
from the quoting. And since this lying **** is the
best you can manage, here goes the chain on
the rest of your lying **** and flagrant dishonesty
you always end up with when you have got done
line a ****ing dinner, as you always are.

There was no cite of an article saying that wider is better. Anyway,
since you have backtracked and agree there is an optimum.

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
Fredxx spewed just the
puerile **** and lies it always ends up with when
its got done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is.

Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxx wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Robin wrote
jon wrote

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation,
convection or conduction so how come efficiency becomes a
problem.

As I think I said the last time this came up, my physics is
nowhere near good enough to decide "by inspection" whether a
vertical or horizontal radiator is better at transferring
heat to a room.

Yes, you clearly have that problem. Plenty of us dont.

I don't know why you say that,

Because its true ? Novel concept I realise.

as the chimney effect can sometimes be very good at providing
a good airflow.

They both have that. The difference is that the
horizontal radiators have the air moving over
much less of the radiator so the radiator has
more cold air moving over it and so you will
see more heat moving out of the radiator
into the airstream.

So at first sight it's not obvious which orientation is best.

Only for those who dont have a clue about the basics.

Only those with hindsight will think differently.

Wrong.

And (like some others)

Who have the same problem.

I saw too many /known/ unknowns - e.g laminar flow?
temperature of air exiting top? chimney effect? - quite
apart from the possible unknown^2

None of that matters. What matters is the vertical distance.

There is no chimney effect with a radiator.

The gap between the radiator and the wall and radiator height
will determine air speed over the radiator.

But that isnt different with the two types of radiator.

What matter is the distance that the cold air at the bottom of
the radiator moves over before it gets to the top of the
radiator.

If you think differently, please feel free to cite an
explanation why this isn't the case.

Just did. And dont need a cite, just an explanation.

You haven't explained why a larger temperature difference within
an enclosed space such as a flue or the space around a radiator
won't create a bigger draught when we know the opposite is
generally true.

This paper for instance:
http://cit.edu.ly/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/15-091.pdf

University of Zawia, hardly one of the world's great universitys.

A preferred reference over one individual whose chosen speciality
is claimed to be chemistry.

Another of your bare faced lies. Your trademark.

My trademark is to cite the source of my accusations.

You clearly didnt with that allegation just above,
you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

I did,

Everyone can see for themselves that you didnt.

just you don't like the fact

No such fact.

or remember saying it.

I never said that.

You confirmed you were a chemist in a thread titled "Ethanol".

I did nothing of the sort, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull****
artist.

And you provided no cite for that lie either.

No lie, just senility on your part:

We'll see...

https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...-3102366-3.htm

and I thought you had a chemical background?

Thats not saying I was ever a chemist, ****wit.

No, but it was what you said. On an even earlier thread you eluded to
being a chemist,

No I did not.

hence my comment.

Which was another of your lies.

Are you now saying you failed your physical chemistry research degree?

Corse not.

My BSc did indeed major in chemistry.

My research degree was in physical
chemistry and involved no chemistry,
only electronics and computing.

Then you were had with being offered a physical-chemistry course.

It wasnt a course, it was a research degree.

So you were had.

Wrong, as always. Its what got me into
computing and that left chemistry for dead.

reams of your even sillier **** flushed where it belongs

On Sat, 8 May 2021 01:55:11 +0100, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:


You said you could read. Please try harder. There are some graphs to assist.

All the rest of your even sillier ****, lies and
flagrant dishonesty flushed where it belongs.

Your record has stuck.

NOT as long as you keep feeding him, senile twit! tsk

On Sat, 8 May 2021 12:18:11 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH all the senile crap

LOL

On Thu, 06 May 2021 14:44:43 +0100, charles
wrote:

snip

'vertical radiators are less *effective* at heating a room than
horizontal ones'

So, you choose a slightly larger one

But that's not a solution to comparing the effectiveness of vertically
or horizontally orientated radiators of the same volumetric flow etc.
;-)

The thing that doesn't change in the comparison is how a 'third party'
acts to / with both orientations, namely the air.

Because 'heat rises', the more radiator you can expose to more virgin
air the more likely you will transfer more heat between the water
rad air.

Cheers, T i m

On 06/05/2021 14:44, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 06/05/2021 13:50, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 13:10:20 UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 06/05/2021 12:55, jon wrote:

What is this nonsense, heat is dissipated by radiation, convection or
conduction so how come efficiency becomes a problem.
For conventional central heating radiators most heat-loss is through
convection. Air is a poor conductor.

It seems there is less overall air flow for a tall radiator than long
for a radiator with the same area and construction.

So hardly nonsense.

Likely true. But, in many cases, so what?

Let's assume a horizontal radiator is 100% efficient.

wrong understanding of 'efficient'

how about a rewrite of the OP

'vertical radiators are less *effective* at heating a room than
horizontal ones'

So, you choose a slightly larger one

I tend to use one that is 2 x overrated (80-60/in-out) over design
minimum so I can use a lower water temperature. And of course safer for
those in contact.