My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think around it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

My rough limits a

£9.95 for almost any small item. Sod it, just buy.

£25 for a slightly more substantial item.

£50 for a more substantial item (e.g. cheapish charcoal BBQ).

After that I struggle, but I tend to use the current price of a
supermarket shop for comparison.
For example, if I am happy to shell out £100 for a week's food including a
bottle or two of wine and a bulk purchase (say a 6 pack of tinned
tomatoes) then in the great scheme of things any other purchase in this
range isn't worth costing as a once in a lifetime purchase.
I suppose £99.99 is another break point for tools and stuff.

Not that I get to spend a lot out shopping at the moment.

I'm pricing up bed risers (dodgy knees) and wondering if I should go for
the £25 or £36 option.
Meal for two prices?
(As far as I can remember.)

Anyway does anyone else have a yard stick for measuring time and effort
put into research against the cost of an item?


Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

David wrote

My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think around
it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a
slightly cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

My rough limits a

£9.95 for almost any small item. Sod it, just buy.

£25 for a slightly more substantial item.

£50 for a more substantial item (e.g. cheapish charcoal BBQ).

After that I struggle, but I tend to use the current
price of a supermarket shop for comparison.

For example, if I am happy to shell out £100 for a week's food including
a bottle or two of wine and a bulk purchase (say a 6 pack of tinned
tomatoes) then in the great scheme of things any other purchase
in this range isn't worth costing as a once in a lifetime purchase.
I suppose £99.99 is another break point for tools and stuff.

I dont work on dollar numbers, too logical for that.

Not that I get to spend a lot out shopping at the moment.

I'm pricing up bed risers (dodgy knees) and wondering
if I should go for the £25 or £36 option.
Meal for two prices?
(As far as I can remember.)

Anyway does anyone else have a yard stick for measuring
time and effort put into research against the cost of an item?

I'm not convinced that there is one.

And to muddy the argument even more, I now realise
that I will never spend my vast accumulated wealth
before I die, so it makes sense to buy whatever makes
my life more convenient and enjoyable.

"David" wrote in message
...
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think around
it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.

no you don't

it should take around 30 seconds

There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

My rough limits a

£9.95 for almost any small item. Sod it, just buy.

really

90p would be my limit


£25 for a slightly more substantial item.

£50 for a more substantial item (e.g. cheapish charcoal BBQ).

again far too high

but are you talking about purchases that you can easily back if the item is
not as described, or ones where sending it back may be a faff

For me, the biggest problem with looking for cheaper sources is the risk of
a dodgy retailer selling me a counterfeit product and then making me jump
through impossible hoops for a refund.

I happily pay 10, 20% more to avoid that. But wont pay 300% more

Different prices for a *genuine* better product is another matter entirely
(in terms of how much effort I'm prepared to put in to evaluate that)


After that I struggle, but I tend to use the current price of a
supermarket shop for comparison.
For example, if I am happy to shell out £100 for a week's food

as I spend circa 30 pounds, family of 4?

Or do you shop in Waitrose?

including a
bottle or two of wine

well I don't do that

and certainly not *every* week

and a bulk purchase (say a 6 pack of tinned
tomatoes)

1.35 for 4

how's that a bulk purchase?

then in the great scheme of things any other purchase in this
range isn't worth costing as a once in a lifetime purchase.

agreed

but are you spending too much on your supermarket shop?

I suppose £99.99 is another break point for tools and stuff.

Not that I get to spend a lot out shopping at the moment.

I'm pricing up bed risers (dodgy knees) and wondering if I should go for
the £25 or £36 option.

As above. The ease of return would be my deciding point here


Meal for two prices?

Nando's (change from 20 quid) or your local fine dining restaurant (in
excess of 200)?

(As far as I can remember.)

Anyway does anyone else have a yard stick for measuring time and effort
put into research against the cost of an item?

If you insist on costing your time at anything approaching a "wage" you are
never going to be able to get that value back from the saving made on the
purchase

but OTOH, if you don't shop around for a deal now and again, you will run
out of money

unless you have an unlimited amount

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

And to muddy the argument even more, I now realise
that I will never spend my vast accumulated wealth
before I die, so it makes sense to buy whatever makes
my life more convenient and enjoyable.

but that's still no reason to left rogue retailer rip you off

Oh how it grates when I let that happen to me

On 17/02/2021 01:07, Rod Speed wrote:
I will never spend my vast accumulated wealth
before I die,


Vast accumulated wealth eh?
What time does your alarm go off?

On 16/02/2021 20:54, David wrote:
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think around it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

My rough limits a

£9.95 for almost any small item. Sod it, just buy.

£25 for a slightly more substantial item.

£50 for a more substantial item (e.g. cheapish charcoal BBQ).

After that I struggle, but I tend to use the current price of a
supermarket shop for comparison.
For example, if I am happy to shell out £100 for a week's food including a
bottle or two of wine and a bulk purchase (say a 6 pack of tinned
tomatoes) then in the great scheme of things any other purchase in this
range isn't worth costing as a once in a lifetime purchase.
I suppose £99.99 is another break point for tools and stuff.

Not that I get to spend a lot out shopping at the moment.

I'm pricing up bed risers (dodgy knees) and wondering if I should go for
the £25 or £36 option.
Meal for two prices?
(As far as I can remember.)

Anyway does anyone else have a yard stick for measuring time and effort
put into research against the cost of an item?


Cheers



Dave R


I'm cheap as well ...

On 16/02/2021 20:54, David wrote:
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think around it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

My rough limits a

£9.95 for almost any small item. Sod it, just buy.

£25 for a slightly more substantial item.

£50 for a more substantial item (e.g. cheapish charcoal BBQ).

Oddly enough it makes a huge difference as to what the item is.

I bought some envelopes from amazon - with postage almost a fiver.!

could have got them for 2.50 in the stationers, but that's a 10 mile
drive and a walk from the car park...

When it comes to a tool that will let me do a job myself - example being
a horrendous labour charge to swap out my old water softener, versus a
day and a few bits of copper pipe and a replacement gas cartridge for my
****ty, but usable blowlamp...I think I added 45 quid on top of the
softener price and it took me a day and a half and a bit more to fix the
last little leak...its still a no brainer.

I did also baulk at £2000 labour to make curtains when I bought a sewing
machine for £50 - a total no brainer in that context - and did the whole
job in 6 weeks of lockdown a bit at a time

I didn't baulk at the £1000 material cost. That was simply the best
price I could get

Perhaps running a business makes cost benefit analysis second nature.
You want a result..

1. What will it cost?
2. Is the result even worth the cost?
3. If it is, can you reduce the cost?
4. What is the impact of reducing the cost on other costs?
5. How much time and money have you spent arriving at this decision?

(When I were a 'prentice, nuts bolts washers and screws were 'free
issue' . Every 'prentice worth his slat over time acquired a toolbox
full of every screw imaginable imagining they were getting something
from 'management' for free. When I ran my own business I realised that
there is a limit to how much e.g. A4 paper any employee CAN filch, and
so I adopted the same policy. The cost of being an arsehole was not
worth the few pounds a month benefit and the office manger's time and
the bad feeling)

If I apply those criteria to e.g. an oil purchase - well my neighbour
spends two days getting 2p a litre off his oil and irritating all the
oil companies. That's £20 on a thousand litre delivery. Two days to make
£20? Really?


If I want to make £20 I can just not buy a bottle of gin this month.
Or not drive 40 miles.



After that I struggle, but I tend to use the current price of a
supermarket shop for comparison.
For example, if I am happy to shell out £100 for a week's food including a
bottle or two of wine and a bulk purchase (say a 6 pack of tinned
tomatoes) then in the great scheme of things any other purchase in this
range isn't worth costing as a once in a lifetime purchase.

Exactly.
My boiler is flaking. a new boiler would be £2-3000 installed.
to get it fixed will probably be less than £100. But a new (condensing)
boiler would save me perhaps 10% on my fuel costs - which are maybe
£2000 per year. Payback in ten to fifteen years? I won't sodding live
much longer than that and will have to move out due to general senility
or death then, anyway.
..
I suppose £99.99 is another break point for tools and stuff.

again look at the job cost. I was hiring a tile saw at about £10 a week
for over a month when I realised I could buy one for £40...no brainer.

OTOH I have used BIG angle grinders - concrete saws and stone cutters -
just twice in my whole life. No point in NOT hiring them.

I use my crappy cheap chinky Wickes cordless screwdriver/drill all the
time. Excellent value for money. The mains drill I use a lot less as I
do the angle grinder I finally bought last year. Almost not worth having



Not that I get to spend a lot out shopping at the moment.

I'm pricing up bed risers (dodgy knees) and wondering if I should go for
the £25 or £36 option.
Meal for two prices?
(As far as I can remember.)

Anyway does anyone else have a yard stick for measuring time and effort
put into research against the cost of an item?


Yes. It's called cost benefit analysis. What does saving the money cost
you in other - or even cash - ways?

taking 10 days to save £1000 on a car purchase is probably worth it.
Driving 20 miles to the 'cheap' supermarket to save a fiver is probably not.


During my divorce I was staying with a friend without a lot of money. I
eventually understood why, when he freaked out because I filled the
kettle halfway instead of 'just enough'

I calculated the difference and put a 2p coin down on the worktop.
"There. I've paid for it, for today"

He purported to be an engineer, He was supposedly able to Do Sums.But he
never thought to apply them to daily life

Cost benefit analysis doesn't set a fixed sum on what is worth worrying
about, because you have to do that in a holistic way. Hard driving
doesn't just burn fuel, it wears out tyres and brakes as well and there
is an overall lifetime cost to doing it. It's also huge fun, and fun is
worth paying for, up to a point

Costing your time also enters in. Many of us are retired. our time is
free but we still can look at it in different ways. I spend about a day
a year plus ten minutes every few weeks reviewing my investments, since
they are the largest source of income I have. That time represents
several thousand pounds a year difference.

I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best
might net me £100 a year.

Part of CBA (cost benefit analysis - the opposite of can't be arsed!) is
prioritising what you spend your time on. Save the big sums first. When
you are being paid £1000 a day to be on time, you buy petrol at the
nearest petrol station.

When you have no income, you buy at the cheapest.



--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 17/02/2021 01:07, Rod Speed wrote:
I will never spend my vast accumulated wealth
before I die,

LOL!!! Amazing how it's always millionaires (of all people) that end up as
pathological trolling assholes on Usenet! BRUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 16/02/2021 20:54, David wrote:
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think around it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

There is also a matter of principle in not being ripped off.

I will always spend 10 minutes on an on-line comparison site when I get
an insurance renewal quote. Even if the price increase on the renewal
appears insignificant compared to the previous year I have found that
other companies have better offers. I don't spend time debating a price
with a company that cannot be bothered to offer their best competitive
deal in the first place - I will just change to an alternative company.

I will always check for alternative energy suppliers a month before my
contract ends, although I'm now just starting my 3rd year with my
current supplier who seem to be close to the top of the list for cheaper
energy (for MY usage)[1].

I will spend more time, and maybe a long time, on-line checking that a
product is suitable for my needs without considering the price and only
then spend a short time researching for the going price rate.

I have very little brand loyalty and don't believe that something
purchased decades ago is representative of the same brand today. I have
given up buying cheap power tools and over the past few years any
replacements have been Dewalt and Makita and have found them much better
made and give better results.

I'm in the fortunate position where I don't necessarily have to worry
about the price of food and can buy what I like but I do use Lidl and
Farmfoods at times, the latter who have some branded goods that I use
regularly and usually at prices 30% cheaper than Tesco/Asda, especially
if buying £50 worth at a time with the 10% discount vouchers. It's
actually more convenient to go to my local Lidl than travel further to
one of the major supermarkets and then spend an hour searching through
their massive warehouse buildings for the items I want.

For cheap items on Ebay I will pay more for someone who has UK stock
rather than the item coming from China 4 weeks later. Sometimes its not
the time on line searching for the cheapest price but the time taken to
make sure that the item may actually be in the UK. Sometimes you have to
read the negative reviews to see the many customers complaining that the
short delivery times and UK stock claims are bogus.


[1]
When checking some of these energy auto switch sites recently they
suggest that their algorithms take into consideration price AND high
scores for customer service. My current supplier is only average for
customer service so presumably wouldn't be near the top of these
switching sites list. If bills are accurate based on monthly user
supplied meter readings and most things can be accomplished on-line etc.
who needs the "hand holding" customer service?


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 17/02/2021 10:01, alan_m wrote:
On 16/02/2021 20:54, David wrote:
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think
around it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

There is also a matter of principle in not being ripped off.

The real questin is, which is the rip off?

Case in point. My staff wanted laptops and said they could get them
cheaper than my normal supplier - 20% cheaper. We got two. After trying
to send them back they ended up on a shelf in the storeroom and were
there when I sold the company. neither ever worked a damn and one blew
the serial port of a machine it was connected to.

My supplier was always 15% more expensive on other stuff, but he was
just a mile away and never failed to take anything back under warranty.
we were in the business of rolling out ten thousand and up
installations, not penny pinching on supplier prices.

My insurance company is not the cheapest, but they have always coughed
up any claims and can speak to humans

And I have so much no claims that its hard to see how much I could save
scrounging around


I will always spend 10 minutes on an on-line comparison site when I get
an insurance renewal quote. Even if the price increase on the renewal
appears insignificant compared to the previous year I have found that
other companies have better offers. I don't spend time debating a price
with a company that cannot be bothered to offer their best competitive
deal in the first place - I will just change to an alternative company.

I will always check for alternative energy suppliers a month before my
contract ends, although I'm now just starting my 3rd year with my
current supplier who seem to be close to the top of the list for cheaper
energy (for MY usage)[1].

Again for what actual return? And at what risk?


I will spend more time, and maybe a long time, on-line checking that a
product is suitable for my needs without considering the price and only
then spend a short time researching for the going price rate.

That is another issue entirely

I have very little brand loyalty and don't believe that something
purchased decades ago is representative of the same brand today. I have
given up buying cheap power tools and over the past few years any
replacements have been Dewalt and Makita and have found them much better
made and give better results.

Again I have found that many brands that used to be good are now ****
and many cheap chinese knock offs really work well.

My wickes wobble sander was crap. My wickes portable screwdriver is fab.

I'm in the fortunate position where I don't necessarily have to worry
about the price of food and can buy what I like but I do use Lidl and
Farmfoods at times, the latter who have some branded goods that I use
regularly and usually at prices 30% cheaper than Tesco/Asda, especially
if buying £50 worth at a time with the 10% discount vouchers. It's
actually more convenient to go to my local Lidl than travel further to
one of the major supermarkets and then spend an hour searching through
their massive warehouse buildings for the items I want.

My food costs are probably less than 10% of my total outgoings. I am
not sure I give a **** about knocking 10% off them

I go to waitrose because its the closest, it has bags of parking the
staff are endlessly helpful, and really given what I buy the prices are
not that much of an issue.

I sometimes go to tescos for items waitrose don't stock.

For cheap items on Ebay I will pay more for someone who has UK stock
rather than the item coming from China 4 weeks later. Sometimes its not
the time on line searching for the cheapest price but the time taken to
make sure that the item may actually be in the UK. Sometimes you have to
read the negative reviews to see the many customers complaining that the
short delivery times and UK stock claims are bogus.

That I agree with. delivery time is part of the product.
Conversely sometimes I am in no hurry.


[1]
When checking some of these energy auto switch sites recently they
suggest that their algorithms take into consideration price AND high
scores for customer service. My current supplier is only average for
customer service so presumably wouldn't be near the top of these
switching sites list. If bills are accurate based on monthly user
supplied meter readings and most things can be accomplished on-line etc.
who needs the "hand holding" customer service?




--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

The Natural Philosopher laid this down on his screen :
I did also baulk at £2000 labour to make curtains when I bought a sewing
machine for £50 - a total no brainer in that context - and did the whole job
in 6 weeks of lockdown a bit at a time

HOW MUCH! I needed some vertical blinds adapting - I paid £10 for a
zig-zag capable sewing machine, at a car boot sale. Our older/ancient
machine, was just getting past it.

On 16/02/2021 20:54, David wrote:
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think around it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

My rough limits a

£9.95 for almost any small item. Sod it, just buy.

£25 for a slightly more substantial item.

£50 for a more substantial item (e.g. cheapish charcoal BBQ).


Normally working, so there is a calculation on how much ye are losing
per hour by not working. Then have that hourly rate lost by doing some
unearthly task - so drag out an Excel sheet.

i.e.

I used to have an hours lunch break, ate a Tesco sandwich.
If I have a 2 minute lunch break, a sandwich from Harrods cost the same.

People that eat Harrods sandwiches have a productive working life and
reach the grave quicker ...

--
Adrian C

The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best might net
me £100 a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me
a just few minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the
investment of just a few minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 16/02/2021 20:54, David wrote:
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think around
it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

My rough limits a

£9.95 for almost any small item. Sod it, just buy.

£25 for a slightly more substantial item.

£50 for a more substantial item (e.g. cheapish charcoal BBQ).

Oddly enough it makes a huge difference as to what the item is.

I bought some envelopes from amazon - with postage almost a fiver.!

could have got them for 2.50 in the stationers, but that's a 10 mile drive
and a walk from the car park...

When it comes to a tool that will let me do a job myself - example being a
horrendous labour charge to swap out my old water softener, versus a day
and a few bits of copper pipe and a replacement gas cartridge for my
****ty, but usable blowlamp...I think I added 45 quid on top of the
softener price and it took me a day and a half and a bit more to fix the
last little leak...its still a no brainer.

I did also baulk at £2000 labour to make curtains when I bought a sewing
machine for £50 - a total no brainer in that context - and did the whole
job in 6 weeks of lockdown a bit at a time

I didn't baulk at the £1000 material cost. That was simply the best price
I could get

Perhaps running a business makes cost benefit analysis second nature. You
want a result..

1. What will it cost?
2. Is the result even worth the cost?
3. If it is, can you reduce the cost?
4. What is the impact of reducing the cost on other costs?
5. How much time and money have you spent arriving at this decision?

(When I were a 'prentice, nuts bolts washers and screws were 'free issue'
. Every 'prentice worth his slat over time acquired a toolbox full of
every screw imaginable imagining they were getting something from
'management' for free. When I ran my own business I realised that there is
a limit to how much e.g. A4 paper any employee CAN filch, and so I adopted
the same policy. The cost of being an arsehole was not worth the few
pounds a month benefit and the office manger's time and the bad feeling)

If I apply those criteria to e.g. an oil purchase - well my neighbour
spends two days getting 2p a litre off his oil and irritating all the oil
companies. That's £20 on a thousand litre delivery. Two days to make £20?
Really?


If I want to make £20 I can just not buy a bottle of gin this month.
Or not drive 40 miles.



After that I struggle, but I tend to use the current price of a
supermarket shop for comparison.
For example, if I am happy to shell out £100 for a week's food including
a
bottle or two of wine and a bulk purchase (say a 6 pack of tinned
tomatoes) then in the great scheme of things any other purchase in this
range isn't worth costing as a once in a lifetime purchase.

Exactly.
My boiler is flaking. a new boiler would be £2-3000 installed.
to get it fixed will probably be less than £100. But a new (condensing)
boiler would save me perhaps 10% on my fuel costs - which are maybe £2000
per year. Payback in ten to fifteen years? I won't sodding live much
longer than that and will have to move out due to general senility or
death then, anyway.

but today's £100 repair will probably not be the last

"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best might
net me £100 a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me a
just few minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the
investment of just a few minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

if I saved 150 quid on my gas bill they'd be paying me

On 17/02/2021 10:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


My insurance company is not the cheapest, but they have always coughed
up any claims and can speak to humans

And I have so much no claims that its hard to see how much I could save
scrounging around

It is well known that being loyal to an insurance company will cost you!
As a "new" customer 20% discounts are often available and with the big
players when they are losing market share they offer better deals. If
you happen to be looking when these better deals are available then you
could end up paying 30% less than your renewal quote- even with maximum
no-claims. I don't necessarily look for the cheapest headline price but
what is included in the quoted price.


I will always check for alternative energy suppliers a month before my
contract ends, although I'm now just starting my 3rd year with my
current supplier who seem to be close to the top of the list for
cheaper energy (for MY usage)[1].

Again for what actual return?Â* And at what risk?

Often the saving can be 10% than staying with your existing supplier,
even if they offer another (fixed) price deal. I don't see any risk with
the companies I've chosen in the past 5 years and even if the company
goes bust the Ofgen will automatically transfer you to another supplier
with the option of you changing again without any penalties. My current
energy contract has no exit fees for ending the contract early.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

My insurance company is not the cheapest, but they have always coughed up any claims
and can speak to humans

And I have so much no claims that its hard to see how much I could save scrounging
around

Basic English Comprehension and Reasoning Ability Test.

Question 1.

Based on the above two statements, does "The Natural Philosopher"

a) make lots of insurance claims ?

or

b) make no insurance claims ?


Please answer using only one side of the paper.


michael adams

....

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:37:21 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best might
net me £100 a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me a
just few minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the
investment of just a few minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

if I saved 150 quid on my gas bill they'd be paying me


Once upon a time, they DID pay me. It was in the days before OFCLOT
-or whatever they are called- deemed standing charges a requirement
and my energy company gave me a dual-fuel discount in the form of a
quarterly rebate off my quarterly bill..

....except for those particular months, nobody was home and no energy
was used.

Nick

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 11:56:06 +0000, Harry Bloomfield, Esq. wrote:

The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best
might net me £100 a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me a
just few minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the
investment of just a few minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

The last really profitable calculation I did was five years ago.

I instantly became £200 a month better off - by resigning and taking a
pension. With - as it turned out, and I was expecting - better inflation
protection.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 17/02/2021 09:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If I want to make £20 I can just not buy a bottle of gin this month.
Or not drive 40 miles.

very wise if you have a JLR, it might not make it

On 17/02/2021 12:37, tim... wrote:


"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best
might net me £100 a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me
a just few minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the
investment of just a few minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

if I saved 150 quid on my gas bill they'd be paying me



How much is your daily standing charge for gas though ?

tim... wrote:


"David" wrote in message
...
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think around
it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.

no you don't

it should take around 30 seconds

Ebay - 'Item in UK' - 'sort by price' - 'buy it now'
Scan down the list until you find something suitable, job done.

(although you do have to skip past the listings with options priced
99p-£1000 where 99p gets you a piece of used belly fluff)

I don't bother with sites that don't have functioning sorting or filtering
(hello Amazon).

Sometimes the item is available cheaper from another place (especially if
not a consumer-focused thing, like some DIY tools and materials) - do a
general web search for it before buying on ebay. Where I've got a more
substantial collection of bits needed I'll go direct to Toolstation, CPC,
local BM, plumbing supplier, etc.

really

90p would be my limit

About £2-3 for me (which is mostly postage anyway).

but are you talking about purchases that you can easily back if the item is
not as described, or ones where sending it back may be a faff

For me, the biggest problem with looking for cheaper sources is the risk of
a dodgy retailer selling me a counterfeit product and then making me jump
through impossible hoops for a refund.

I happily pay 10, 20% more to avoid that. But wont pay 300% more

Different prices for a *genuine* better product is another matter entirely
(in terms of how much effort I'm prepared to put in to evaluate that)

In this bracket the price of shipping it back makes things not worth
returning if you have to pay £5-10 postage.

However the other hassle of returns is that you still don't have the item
you wanted - no good if you're planning to do a job and you can't do it.
Particularly a problem with shipping being disrupted as it is at the moment,
things taking a week to arrive can be problematic (Amazon next day shipping
has been handy as a get out of trouble card for this as it actually
delivers on time).

I do stare a lot at specs to make sure I'm getting something with a good
chance of working - more time upfront but generally fewer mistakes. Time
invested upfront means jobs can be done in a timely manner, not postponed
for having the wrong bits.

Theo

On 16 Feb 2021 20:54:18 GMT, David wrote:



Anyway does anyone else have a yard stick for measuring time and effort
put into research against the cost of an item?



I tend to be sniffy about own-brand stuff - then about ten years ago I
bought some B&Q own-brand laminate flooring. How can they get that
wrong? Quite easily it seems. It didn't/doesn't lie flat. Fortunately
it's in a room that I don't use that much, otherwise I'd have gone to
the trouble of ripping it out and replacing it.
(Do like Tesco Finest range though.)

On 17/02/2021 16:42, Peter Johnson wrote:
On 16 Feb 2021 20:54:18 GMT, David wrote:



Anyway does anyone else have a yard stick for measuring time and effort
put into research against the cost of an item?



I tend to be sniffy about own-brand stuff

Some respected names of the past are effectively own-brand stuff.
Brand names are bought and sold and used as a badge on no-name far east
items.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 01:22:12 -0800, Owain Lastname wrote:

On Tuesday, 16 February 2021 at 20:54:22 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google)
wrote:
I'm pricing up bed risers (dodgy knees) and wondering if I should go
for the £25 or £36 option.

Free from social work occupational therapy?

Or £10
https://www.roov.co.uk/home-decor-ac...niture-risers-
pukkr

Owain

Nope - wrong size and shape.

Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 17/02/2021 11:56, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best
might net me £100 a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me a
just few minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the
investment of just a few minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

well as I said and I don't think anyone actually believed me, my
investments are returning about 30%-40% pa and that's what I spend tome
on. Ok it probably wont last - but Donald trump and then the democrats,.
Brexit and covid 19 have been massively good for certain parts of the
global market and that's where I am.

https://www.trustnet.com/fund/price-...&subUnits=5,30

pick any five from the top 30...

--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

Andrew brought next idea :
On 17/02/2021 12:37, tim... wrote:


"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best might
net me £100 a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me a
just few minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the
investment of just a few minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

if I saved 150 quid on my gas bill they'd be paying me



How much is your daily standing charge for gas though ?

24.99p

On 17/02/2021 12:34, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 16/02/2021 20:54, David wrote:
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think
around it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

My rough limits a

£9.95 for almost any small item. Sod it, just buy.

£25 for a slightly more substantial item.

£50 for a more substantial item (e.g. cheapish charcoal BBQ).

Oddly enough it makes a huge difference as to what the item is.

I bought some envelopes from amazon - with postage almost a fiver.!

could have got them for 2.50 in the stationers, but that's a 10 mile
drive and a walk from the car park...

When it comes to a tool that will let me do a job myself - example
being a horrendous labour charge to swap out my old water softener,
versus a day and a few bits of copper pipe and a replacement gas
cartridge for my ****ty, but usable blowlamp...I think I added 45 quid
on top of the softener price and it took me a day and a half and a bit
more to fix the last little leak...its still a no brainer.

I did also baulk at £2000 labour to make curtains when I bought a
sewing machine for £50 - a total no brainer in that context - and did
the whole job in 6 weeks of lockdown a bit at a time

I didn't baulk at the £1000 material cost. That was simply the best
price I could get

Perhaps running a business makes cost benefit analysis second nature.
You want a result..

1. What will it cost?
2. Is the result even worth the cost?
3. If it is, can you reduce the cost?
4. What is the impact of reducing the cost on other costs?
5. How much time and money have you spent arriving at this decision?

(When I were a 'prentice, nuts bolts washers and screws were 'free
issue' . Every 'prentice worth his slat over time acquired a toolbox
full of every screw imaginable imagining they were getting something
from 'management' for free. When I ran my own business I realised that
there is a limit to how much e.g. A4 paper any employee CAN filch, and
so I adopted the same policy. The cost of being an arsehole was not
worth the few pounds a month benefit and the office manger's time and
the bad feeling)

If I apply those criteria to e.g. an oil purchase - well my neighbour
spends two days getting 2p a litre off his oil and irritating all the
oil companies. That's £20 on a thousand litre delivery. Two days to
make £20? Really?


If I want to make £20 I can just not buy a bottle of gin this month.
Or not drive 40 miles.



After that I struggle, but I tend to use the current price of a
supermarket shop for comparison.
For example, if I am happy to shell out £100 for a week's food
including a
bottle or two of wine and a bulk purchase (say a 6 pack of tinned
tomatoes) then in the great scheme of things any other purchase in this
range isn't worth costing as a once in a lifetime purchase.

Exactly.
My boiler is flaking. a new boiler would be £2-3000 installed.
to get it fixed will probably be less than £100. But a new
(condensing) boiler would save me perhaps 10% on my fuel costs - which
are maybe £2000 per year. Payback in ten to fifteen years? I won't
sodding live much longer than that and will have to move out due to
general senility or death then, anyway.

but today's £100 repair will probably not be the last



I think it is actually going to be nearer £200. apart from the flame
sensor, the oil pump was deemed leaking, and then the motor suddenly
wouldn't start and needed a new capacitor. Hmmm

So after 19 years about half of it has now been replaced with new. I
think in all in the last two years its cost me about 500.
As long as the heat exchanger doesn't pack up it should do another 19
years ok

There was a bit of teeth sucking about the motor as diesel had, he said,
spilt on it, but he didn't have a spare or I am sure he would have
fitted it.,:-)

Well TBH I dont mind if I have been slightly gulled. New stuff to
replace 19 year old stuff is fine...

Caps and oil pumps and water pumps and flame sensors do wear out and
that boiler has hardly ever been serviced in its whole life.

I reckon it will do another ten years. Not so sure I will...


--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On 17/02/2021 12:37, tim... wrote:


"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best
might net me £100 a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me
a just few minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the
investment of just a few minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

if I saved 150 quid on my gas bill they'd be paying me



If I saved £150 quid on my gas bill I'd be phoning the police, because I
don't have gas!

I could probably save £150 on my oil bill by wearing a vest and a double
jumper and gloves for a month



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 17/02/2021 13:01, alan_m wrote:
On 17/02/2021 10:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


My insurance company is not the cheapest, but they have always coughed
up any claims and can speak to humans

And I have so much no claims that its hard to see how much I could
save scrounging around

It is well known that being loyal to an insurance company will cost you!
As a "new" customer 20% discounts are often available and with the big
players when they are losing market share they offer better deals. If
you happen to be looking when these better deals are available then you
could end up paying 30% less than your renewal quote- even with maximum
no-claims. I don't necessarily look for the cheapest headline price but
what is included in the quoted price.


I get a large loyalty and no claims bonus, I pay about £250 a year. I
think my car tax costs more


Last time I tried to get quotes at best I could knock £20 off that



Often the saving can be 10% than staying with your existing supplier,
even if they offer another (fixed) price deal. I don't see any risk with
the companies I've chosen in the past 5 years and even if the company
goes bust the Ofgen will automatically transfer you to another supplier
with the option of you changing again without any penalties. My current
energy contract has no exit fees for ending the contract early.



well yes, so on my whatever it is £100 a month electricity bill I will
save £10

Big ****ing deal

I do check that oil prices aren't through the roof, but again its small
money to be saved. there is a market price for oil and a few percent
only is available

I guess if I worked hard at it I might save £500 a year: Out of around
£20,000 it cost me to be in this house eating well and warm. My big
costs are the mortgage, the council tax, the car, the house insurance
and general maintenance that has to be done. Fuel, electricity and food
are pretty trivial compared with those...


I have enough money to stay here until I am too gaga to run the place
and then I'll sell the half that I have left and move somewhere warm
with cheap servants :-)



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/02/2021 12:37, tim... wrote:


"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best
might net me £100 a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me a
just few minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the
investment of just a few minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

if I saved 150 quid on my gas bill they'd be paying me



How much is your daily standing charge for gas though ?

half my total bill

"Peter Johnson" wrote in message
...
On 16 Feb 2021 20:54:18 GMT, David wrote:



Anyway does anyone else have a yard stick for measuring time and effort
put into research against the cost of an item?



I tend to be sniffy about own-brand stuff - then about ten years ago I
bought some B&Q own-brand laminate flooring. How can they get that
wrong? Quite easily it seems. It didn't/doesn't lie flat. Fortunately
it's in a room that I don't use that much, otherwise I'd have gone to
the trouble of ripping it out and replacing it.
(Do like Tesco Finest range though.)

on the odd occasions I have tried such up market supermarket meals

couldn't tell the bleeding difference

The Natural Philosopher formulated the question :
On 17/02/2021 10:01, alan_m wrote:
I'm in the fortunate position where I don't necessarily have to worry about
the price of food and can buy what I like but I do use Lidl and Farmfoods
at times, the latter who have some branded goods that I use regularly and
usually at prices 30% cheaper than Tesco/Asda, especially if buying £50
worth at a time with the 10% discount vouchers. It's actually more
convenient to go to my local Lidl than travel further to one of the major
supermarkets and then spend an hour searching through their massive
warehouse buildings for the items I want.

Lidl is the one we use most and just a ten minute walk away. It is
co-located with a Home Bargains, both quite new and a much older Tesco.
We generally prefer the Lidl offerings, only going in the others when
we cannot find something in Lidl.

My food costs are probably less than 10% of my total outgoings. I am not
sure I give a **** about knocking 10% off them

Do you live on beans on toast?

At a rough check - Our food purchases represent around 35% of our
regular bill spend each month. G + E + W, C Tax, broadband phone.

tim... submitted this idea :
if I saved 150 quid on my gas bill they'd be paying me

No, I saved £150 off my dual fuel bill, for this year.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 17/02/2021 11:56, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :
I cant be arsed with chasing the best electricity deal that at best might net me £100
a year.

I'm in a similar financial position, except I can and do - It takes me a just few
minutes. It makes me £100 better off over the year, for the investment of just a few
minutes, whilst sat idly watching TV.

This year I saved £150 on my bill.

well as I said and I don't think anyone actually believed me, my investments are
returning about 30%-40% pa and that's what I spend tome on. Ok it probably wont last -
but Donald trump and then the democrats,. Brexit and covid 19 have been massively good
for certain parts of the global market and that's where I am.

https://www.trustnet.com/fund/price-...&subUnits=5,30

pick any five from the top 30...


I have less income now than the minimum wage by a huge margin. So I use my time to
save money. I cook, do DIY, sew, mend, repair and in general live the way my postwar
parents taught me, and their Depression era parents taught them. On a shoestring."

The Natural Philosopher

From little acorns, as they say.


michael adams


....

On 17/02/2021 18:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/02/2021 12:34, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 16/02/2021 20:54, David wrote:
My view of expensive was set some decades ago so I have to think
around it.

You can spend an awful lot of time on line trying to find a slightly
cheaper item, and comparing prices and specifications.
There must be a point where it isn't really worth spending the effort.

My rough limits a

£9.95 for almost any small item. Sod it, just buy.

£25 for a slightly more substantial item.

£50 for a more substantial item (e.g. cheapish charcoal BBQ).

Oddly enough it makes a huge difference as to what the item is.

I bought some envelopes from amazon - with postage almost a fiver.!

could have got them for 2.50 in the stationers, but that's a 10 mile
drive and a walk from the car park...

When it comes to a tool that will let me do a job myself - example
being a horrendous labour charge to swap out my old water softener,
versus a day and a few bits of copper pipe and a replacement gas
cartridge for my ****ty, but usable blowlamp...I think I added 45
quid on top of the softener price and it took me a day and a half and
a bit more to fix the last little leak...its still a no brainer.

I did also baulk at £2000 labour to make curtains when I bought a
sewing machine for £50 - a total no brainer in that context - and did
the whole job in 6 weeks of lockdown a bit at a time

I didn't baulk at the £1000 material cost. That was simply the best
price I could get

Perhaps running a business makes cost benefit analysis second nature.
You want a result..

1. What will it cost?
2. Is the result even worth the cost?
3. If it is, can you reduce the cost?
4. What is the impact of reducing the cost on other costs?
5. How much time and money have you spent arriving at this decision?

(When I were a 'prentice, nuts bolts washers and screws were 'free
issue' . Every 'prentice worth his slat over time acquired a toolbox
full of every screw imaginable imagining they were getting something
from 'management' for free. When I ran my own business I realised
that there is a limit to how much e.g. A4 paper any employee CAN
filch, and so I adopted the same policy. The cost of being an
arsehole was not worth the few pounds a month benefit and the office
manger's time and the bad feeling)

If I apply those criteria to e.g. an oil purchase - well my neighbour
spends two days getting 2p a litre off his oil and irritating all the
oil companies. That's £20 on a thousand litre delivery. Two days to
make £20? Really?


If I want to make £20 I can just not buy a bottle of gin this month.
Or not drive 40 miles.



After that I struggle, but I tend to use the current price of a
supermarket shop for comparison.
For example, if I am happy to shell out £100 for a week's food
including a
bottle or two of wine and a bulk purchase (say a 6 pack of tinned
tomatoes) then in the great scheme of things any other purchase in this
range isn't worth costing as a once in a lifetime purchase.

Exactly.
My boiler is flaking. a new boiler would be £2-3000 installed.
to get it fixed will probably be less than £100. But a new
(condensing) boiler would save me perhaps 10% on my fuel costs -
which are maybe £2000 per year. Payback in ten to fifteen years? I
won't sodding live much longer than that and will have to move out
due to general senility or death then, anyway.

but today's £100 repair will probably not be the last



I think it is actually going to be nearer £200. apart from the flame
sensor, the oil pump was deemed leaking, and then the motor suddenly
wouldn't start and needed a new capacitor. Hmmm


they managed to overcharge for all the parts. £280


--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On 17/02/2021 19:04, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher formulated the question :
On 17/02/2021 10:01, alan_m wrote:
I'm in the fortunate position where I don't necessarily have to worry
about the price of food and can buy what I like but I do use Lidl and
Farmfoods at times, the latter who have some branded goods that I use
regularly and usually at prices 30% cheaper than Tesco/Asda,
especially if buying £50 worth at a time with the 10% discount
vouchers. It's actually more convenient to go to my local Lidl than
travel further to one of the major supermarkets and then spend an
hour searching through their massive warehouse buildings for the
items I want.

Lidl is the one we use most and just a ten minute walk away. It is
co-located with a Home Bargains, both quite new and a much older Tesco.
We generally prefer the Lidl offerings, only going in the others when we
cannot find something in Lidl.

My food costs are probably less than 10% of my total outgoings.Â* I am
not sure I give a **** about knocking 10% off them

Do you live on beans on toast?

No. I have a massive mortgage thanks to the ex, and a massive council
tax bill, a lot of maintenance thanks to the ex, a massive oil bill
thanks to the size of the house..

£3500 a year on food is not a big ticket item £18,000 a year on a
mortgage is....


At a rough check - Our food purchases represent around 35% of our
regular bill spend each month. G + E + W, C Tax, broadband phone.

You lucky man



--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

It happens that The Natural Philosopher formulated :
£3500 a year on food is not a big ticket item £18,000 a year on a mortgage
is....

Ouch, my sympathy.

The Natural Philosopher pretended :
I get a large loyalty and no claims bonus, I pay about £250 a year. I think
my car tax costs more

£220-ish per year, via a national broker. Always the best quote from
them by a large margin, but when it does creep up, I just suggest to
them that they find another, better quote for me. They have never
failed to find better.

Strangely, everyone I have recommended to the broker, has found them to
be the highest quote for themselves.

Adrian Caspersz expressed precisely :
I used to have an hours lunch break, ate a Tesco sandwich.
If I have a 2 minute lunch break, a sandwich from Harrods cost the same.

People that eat Harrods sandwiches have a productive working life and reach
the grave quicker ...

Does your calculation include the long drive there and back to collect
the Harrods sandwich? It might take me many hours of driving..