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So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/
-- There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isnt true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true. Soren Kierkegaard |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ Paywalled... Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Dont think this car is gonna exactly fly along. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/ Paywalled... Turn off javascript |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Dont think this car is gonna exactly fly along. Tim You're confusing issues of "peak" versus "average" consumption. When you breeze along the motorway at 100km/hour, it might take 20HP (~14kW) to handle wind resistance. You can then forecast how long the battery would last on your BEV, knowing that the wind resistance is what is eating at your battery. I agree that fuel cells have ****-poor output characteristics. They're not "strong-like-bull" as electrical devices go. But, you have the ability to fit Lithium batteries as a buffer to the fuel cell system, or if feeling particularly rich, you could fit UltraCaps to the car. The UltraCaps can provide bursts of 3000 amps if needed. This means you'll be able to burn donuts in the parking lot, do brake stands while waiting in traffic and so on. Your tires will be worn out and shot in no time. But, with your electrical buffer, you can only refill the buffer at the 8kW rate. That means your "average" rate of consumption is capped. Burn one donut, wait two hours for your recharge. Then burn another donut. Boring. Another way to think of this, is pretend they made a solar-powered car. Weak as **** solar array on the car roof. Recharge time ? A week maybe, or a month. Obviously, solar panels on the roof of the car cannot put out 8kW. Solar would be weaker still. But the buffering principle remains - if you could sit off the road for a week, you might be able to drive for a minute or two. The hydrogen, you could still pull over to the side of the road, while the fuel cell continues to charge the Lithium system. When you come out of Harrods, your car has charged itself, and without using any of that grid power you don't have a lot of. The fuel cell car then, will need a very low drag coefficient. You won't be driving an F150 with a load of brick in the back. You won't be pulling a motor home with it. The Lithium batteries are still key to this, because they're needed for dynamic braking and harvesting the kinetic energy in the car while attempting to stop. That means less of that precious H2 will be needed to pull away when the light changes. Ballard Systems in Vancouver, designed a transit bus that runs on fuel cells. When the driver stomps the "gas", a cloud of steam comes out of the back of the bus. It can be done. I wish I could find the video of the first time one of these buses pulled away... The available vids now are crap. https://www.ballard.com/markets/transit-bus That's not the problem with the hydrogen economy. It's making the hydrogen that's a problem. Not enough electrolysis to make it sustainable... The sleazy ways to make hydrogen, are still losers. Paul |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On Tuesday, October 20, 2020 at 7:51:47 AM UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/ Paywalled... Turn off javascript Thanks, turned off javascript and it works with the Herald too. |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 07:51, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Dont think this car is gonna exactly fly along. 8 Kw is around 10 bhp Enough for 50 mph perhaps. Most small cars cruise at around that figure. I would add a battery as well for peak power demands. But it underlines my point that all this maybe and could be crap falls to pieces when real numbers are inserted. "When the flag drops, the bull**** stops" "Money talks, bull**** walks" Tim -- Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do! |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
Andy Burns wrote:
Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/ Paywalled... Turn off javascript That did the trick. Thanks. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
Paul wrote:
Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Dont think this car is gonna exactly fly along. Tim You're confusing issues of "peak" versus "average" consumption. When you breeze along the motorway at 100km/hour, it might take 20HP (~14kW) to handle wind resistance. You can then forecast how long the battery would last on your BEV, knowing that the wind resistance is what is eating at your battery. I agree that fuel cells have ****-poor output characteristics. They're not "strong-like-bull" as electrical devices go. But, you have the ability to fit Lithium batteries as a buffer to the fuel cell system, or if feeling particularly rich, you could fit UltraCaps to the car. Oh I agree that with batteries and/or supercaps (and it does have the latter) one could extract a lot more short term power. Its still a bicycle-wheeled two seater with no luggage space with a top whack of 60mph relying on a fuel thats near as dammit unobtainium. I cant ever see demand being huge. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
8 Kw is around 10 bhp Enough for 50 mph perhaps. Most small cars cruise at around that figure. I would add a battery as well for peak power demands. I think both the hydrogen power cars available in the UK do use the fuel cell to charge battery as well as run the motors direct. The Hyundai dealer in Leicester is offering test drives of the Nexo, despite the nearest hydrogen filling point being an 80 mile round trip to Derby, that's 20% of a tank gone before you start. Plus wanky phrases like each hour of driving purifies enough air for 42 people to breath. |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 11:08, Tim+ wrote:
Paul wrote: Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Dont think this car is gonna exactly fly along. Tim You're confusing issues of "peak" versus "average" consumption. When you breeze along the motorway at 100km/hour, it might take 20HP (~14kW) to handle wind resistance. You can then forecast how long the battery would last on your BEV, knowing that the wind resistance is what is eating at your battery. I agree that fuel cells have ****-poor output characteristics. They're not "strong-like-bull" as electrical devices go. But, you have the ability to fit Lithium batteries as a buffer to the fuel cell system, or if feeling particularly rich, you could fit UltraCaps to the car. Oh I agree that with batteries and/or supercaps (and it does have the latter) one could extract a lot more short term power. Its still a bicycle-wheeled two seater with no luggage space with a top whack of 60mph relying on a fuel thats near as dammit unobtainium. I cant ever see demand being huge. Tim I don't know about this particular car, but I think that fuel-cell powered cars have a future. At the moment they are prohibitively expensive because they're only made in penny numbers. Demand is low because of the high price and because of the lack of re-fueling infrastructure. If that vicious circle can be broken, they'll really take off because they have a much higher range than BEVs and are much quicker to re-fuel. We could even see refilling stations producing their own hydrogen from renewable energy - both helping to save the planet and eliminating distribution costs. The fact that the electrical energy which you get from the fuel cell is only about 50% of the energy used to produce the hydrogen may then not matter. -- Cheers, Roger |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
Roger Mills wrote:
On 20/10/2020 11:08, Tim+ wrote: Paul wrote: Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Dont think this car is gonna exactly fly along. Tim You're confusing issues of "peak" versus "average" consumption. When you breeze along the motorway at 100km/hour, it might take 20HP (~14kW) to handle wind resistance. You can then forecast how long the battery would last on your BEV, knowing that the wind resistance is what is eating at your battery. I agree that fuel cells have ****-poor output characteristics. They're not "strong-like-bull" as electrical devices go. But, you have the ability to fit Lithium batteries as a buffer to the fuel cell system, or if feeling particularly rich, you could fit UltraCaps to the car. Oh I agree that with batteries and/or supercaps (and it does have the latter) one could extract a lot more short term power. Its still a bicycle-wheeled two seater with no luggage space with a top whack of 60mph relying on a fuel thats near as dammit unobtainium. I cant ever see demand being huge. Tim I don't know about this particular car, but I think that fuel-cell powered cars have a future. At the moment they are prohibitively expensive because they're only made in penny numbers. Demand is low because of the high price and because of the lack of re-fueling infrastructure. If that vicious circle can be broken, they'll really take off because they have a much higher range than BEVs That *sounds* like it out to be a huge selling point, but in practice, the vast majority of journeys are short ones. and are much quicker to re-fuel. Assuming you dont have to drive miles to find a refuelling point. I have one at my home and very handy it is too. ;-) We could even see refilling stations producing their own hydrogen from renewable energy - both helping to save the planet and eliminating distribution costs. The fact that the electrical energy which you get from the fuel cell is only about 50% of the energy used to produce the hydrogen may then not matter. Or better still, dont waste that 50% and just stick the electricity straight into a BEV. Of course BEVs cant do everything a liquid/gas fuelled car can but theyre here NOW, they work and provide an excellent mode of transport for many people. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 12:11, Roger Mills wrote:
We could even see refilling stations producing their own hydrogen from renewable energy ROFLMAO! There's a levitating Gloucester Old Spot and a Wessex Saddleback! Pass me the Purdey! -- Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do! |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ can't see a model that bundles insurance is going to be viable it will mean that the people used to paying 200pa for insurance will subsides those who pay 2000pa |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
"Tim+" wrote in message ... Paul wrote: Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Dont think this car is gonna exactly fly along. Tim You're confusing issues of "peak" versus "average" consumption. When you breeze along the motorway at 100km/hour, it might take 20HP (~14kW) to handle wind resistance. You can then forecast how long the battery would last on your BEV, knowing that the wind resistance is what is eating at your battery. I agree that fuel cells have ****-poor output characteristics. They're not "strong-like-bull" as electrical devices go. But, you have the ability to fit Lithium batteries as a buffer to the fuel cell system, or if feeling particularly rich, you could fit UltraCaps to the car. Oh I agree that with batteries and/or supercaps (and it does have the latter) one could extract a lot more short term power. Its still a bicycle-wheeled two seater with no luggage space Oh I missed that bit Where's the market for such a car? a city runaround has to be capable of taking the kids to school otherwise it's useless |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
"Tim+" wrote in message ... Roger Mills wrote: On 20/10/2020 11:08, Tim+ wrote: Paul wrote: Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Dont think this car is gonna exactly fly along. Tim You're confusing issues of "peak" versus "average" consumption. When you breeze along the motorway at 100km/hour, it might take 20HP (~14kW) to handle wind resistance. You can then forecast how long the battery would last on your BEV, knowing that the wind resistance is what is eating at your battery. I agree that fuel cells have ****-poor output characteristics. They're not "strong-like-bull" as electrical devices go. But, you have the ability to fit Lithium batteries as a buffer to the fuel cell system, or if feeling particularly rich, you could fit UltraCaps to the car. Oh I agree that with batteries and/or supercaps (and it does have the latter) one could extract a lot more short term power. Its still a bicycle-wheeled two seater with no luggage space with a top whack of 60mph relying on a fuel thats near as dammit unobtainium. I cant ever see demand being huge. Tim I don't know about this particular car, but I think that fuel-cell powered cars have a future. At the moment they are prohibitively expensive because they're only made in penny numbers. Demand is low because of the high price and because of the lack of re-fueling infrastructure. If that vicious circle can be broken, they'll really take off because they have a much higher range than BEVs That *sounds* like it out to be a huge selling point, but in practice, the vast majority of journeys are short ones. but do the vast majority of cars only do short journeys? Having to have two cars to solve that problem isn't going to be a great use of resources |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
"tim..." Wrote in message:
"Tim+" wrote in message ... Roger Mills wrote: On 20/10/2020 11:08, Tim+ wrote: Paul wrote: Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Don?t think this car is gonna exactly fly along. Tim You're confusing issues of "peak" versus "average" consumption. When you breeze along the motorway at 100km/hour, it might take 20HP (~14kW) to handle wind resistance. You can then forecast how long the battery would last on your BEV, knowing that the wind resistance is what is eating at your battery. I agree that fuel cells have ****-poor output characteristics. They're not "strong-like-bull" as electrical devices go. But, you have the ability to fit Lithium batteries as a buffer to the fuel cell system, or if feeling particularly rich, you could fit UltraCaps to the car. Oh I agree that with batteries and/or supercaps (and it does have the latter) one could extract a lot more short term power. It?s still a bicycle-wheeled two seater with no luggage space with a top whack of 60mph relying on a fuel that?s near as dammit unobtainium. I can?t ever see demand being huge. Tim I don't know about this particular car, but I think that fuel-cell powered cars have a future. At the moment they are prohibitively expensive because they're only made in penny numbers. Demand is low because of the high price and because of the lack of re-fueling infrastructure. If that vicious circle can be broken, they'll really take off because they have a much higher range than BEVs That *sounds* like it out to be a huge selling point, but in practice, the vast majority of journeys are short ones. but do the vast majority of cars only do short journeys? Having to have two cars to solve that problem isn't going to be a great use of resources Rent one for long journeys or use another mode for one or both situations... -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 12:26, Tim+ wrote:
Roger Mills wrote: On 20/10/2020 11:08, Tim+ wrote: Paul wrote: Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...funding-round/ https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa/ Hmm, 8kW from the fuel cell. My EV has a 150kW motor. Dont think this car is gonna exactly fly along. Tim You're confusing issues of "peak" versus "average" consumption. When you breeze along the motorway at 100km/hour, it might take 20HP (~14kW) to handle wind resistance. You can then forecast how long the battery would last on your BEV, knowing that the wind resistance is what is eating at your battery. I agree that fuel cells have ****-poor output characteristics. They're not "strong-like-bull" as electrical devices go. But, you have the ability to fit Lithium batteries as a buffer to the fuel cell system, or if feeling particularly rich, you could fit UltraCaps to the car. Oh I agree that with batteries and/or supercaps (and it does have the latter) one could extract a lot more short term power. Its still a bicycle-wheeled two seater with no luggage space with a top whack of 60mph relying on a fuel thats near as dammit unobtainium. I cant ever see demand being huge. Tim I don't know about this particular car, but I think that fuel-cell powered cars have a future. At the moment they are prohibitively expensive because they're only made in penny numbers. Demand is low because of the high price and because of the lack of re-fueling infrastructure. If that vicious circle can be broken, they'll really take off because they have a much higher range than BEVs That *sounds* like it out to be a huge selling point, but in practice, the vast majority of journeys are short ones. and are much quicker to re-fuel. Assuming you dont have to drive miles to find a refuelling point. I have one at my home and very handy it is too. ;-) We could even see refilling stations producing their own hydrogen from renewable energy - both helping to save the planet and eliminating distribution costs. The fact that the electrical energy which you get from the fuel cell is only about 50% of the energy used to produce the hydrogen may then not matter. Or better still, dont waste that 50% and just stick the electricity straight into a BEV. Of course BEVs cant do everything a liquid/gas fuelled car can but theyre here NOW, they work and provide an excellent mode of transport for many people. Tim Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. -- Cheers, Roger |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 14:28, tim... wrote:
but do the vast majority of cars only do short journeys? Well its a moot point. A huge number of 'her' cars do in fact do just the supermarket run and the school pickup and could easily be BEV...whilst 'his' car does a bit of commuting and the weekend trips which would be longer. Having to have two cars to solve that problem isn't going to be a great use of resources Many families have two cars already. It's the elderly who get punished as low mileage means that taxation service and MOTs are disproportionately large elements of the annual cost, so they cant afford two cars. -- when things get difficult you just have to lie Jean Claud Jüncker |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 16:29, Roger Mills wrote:
Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. fast charging is something batteries can already do - a one hour flat to full is well within lithium capabilities, but I haven't seen much in the way of better energy to weight in the last ten years. Cost is about half what it was ten years ago. The limits on fast charging is really the local last mile grid. Few houses have 100A fuses and that is the limit for a normal domestic installation. 25kW will still take 4 hours to cram the electrons into a 100kWh battery...leaving nothing left over for the mandatory house heat-pump. -- "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them." |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 17:47:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/10/2020 16:29, Roger Mills wrote: Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. fast charging is something batteries can already do - a one hour flat to full is well within lithium capabilities, but I haven't seen much in the way of better energy to weight in the last ten years. Cost is about half what it was ten years ago. The limits on fast charging is really the local last mile grid. Few houses have 100A fuses and that is the limit for a normal domestic installation. 25kW will still take 4 hours to cram the electrons into a 100kWh battery...leaving nothing left over for the mandatory house heat-pump. A petrol engine can be modified to run on hydrogen. No need to scrap them. |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
tim... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message I don't know about this particular car, but I think that fuel-cell powered cars have a future. At the moment they are prohibitively expensive because they're only made in penny numbers. Demand is low because of the high price and because of the lack of re-fueling infrastructure. If that vicious circle can be broken, they'll really take off because they have a much higher range than BEVs That *sounds* like it out to be a huge selling point, but in practice, the vast majority of journeys are short ones. but do the vast majority of cars only do short journeys? No, but how much contingency to you really need? For me the tipping point was waiting for an affordable EV with a range greater than my Alfasud. (250 miles). Im happy to live with taking a 45-60 break every 250 miles or so if on on a long journey. Having to have two cars to solve that problem isn't going to be a great use of resources You just need to to plan your recharge stops for long journeys or if you want to really crack on, theirs always car hire. Weve all got very used to the ability to re-fuel quickly thanks to the energy density on petrol/diesel but once youve got over the initial panic and learned to plan, its a lot less of an issue than you might imagine. Additionally, I can refuel my car in my sleep! Can you? ;-). Imagine never having to visit a petrol station again. Lastly, with fuel costing just 5p a mile based on home charging (or even free from many chargers in Scotland) the advantages vastly outweighed the disadvantages for me. Its also a ****load nicer to drive than any ICE vehicle. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 20/10/2020 14:28, tim... wrote: but do the vast majority of cars only do short journeys? Well its a moot point. A huge number of 'her' cars do in fact do just the supermarket run and the school pickup and could easily be BEV...whilst 'his' car does a bit of commuting and the weekend trips which would be longer. Having to have two cars to solve that problem isn't going to be a great use of resources Many families have two cars already. It's the elderly who get punished as low mileage means that taxation service and MOTs are disproportionately large elements of the annual cost, so they cant afford two cars. We tend to holiday in the UK, so need a car with a decent range -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/10/2020 16:29, Roger Mills wrote: Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. fast charging is something batteries can already do - a one hour flat to full is well within lithium capabilities, but I haven't seen much in the way of better energy to weight in the last ten years. Cost is about half what it was ten years ago. The limits on fast charging is really the local last mile grid. Few houses have 100A fuses and that is the limit for a normal domestic installation. 25kW will still take 4 hours to cram the electrons into a 100kWh battery...leaving nothing left over for the mandatory house heat-pump. But you dont need fast charging at home. A 7kW charger is quite adequate for overnight charging. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
Roger Mills wrote:
On 20/10/2020 12:26, Tim+ wrote: Or better still, dont waste that 50% and just stick the electricity straight into a BEV. Of course BEVs cant do everything a liquid/gas fuelled car can but theyre here NOW, they work and provide an excellent mode of transport for many people. Tim Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. True, but when you can do 95% of your journeys at 5p a mile or less for fuel (based on home charging), you find that you get happier about having a wait occasionally. ;-) Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
Smolley wrote:
On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 17:47:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 20/10/2020 16:29, Roger Mills wrote: Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. fast charging is something batteries can already do - a one hour flat to full is well within lithium capabilities, but I haven't seen much in the way of better energy to weight in the last ten years. Cost is about half what it was ten years ago. The limits on fast charging is really the local last mile grid. Few houses have 100A fuses and that is the limit for a normal domestic installation. 25kW will still take 4 hours to cram the electrons into a 100kWh battery...leaving nothing left over for the mandatory house heat-pump. A petrol engine can be modified to run on hydrogen. No need to scrap them. ....is the worst idea ever. Hydrogen is a terrible fuel for an IC engine. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 13:11, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 12:47:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 20/10/2020 12:11, Roger Mills wrote: We could even see refilling stations producing their own hydrogen from renewable energy ROFLMAO! There's a levitating Gloucester Old Spot and a Wessex Saddleback! Pass me the Purdey! They wouldn't last long - sliced into bacon rashers as soon as they hit one of the millions of whirling turbines. ROFL +1. Have you ever met an Old Spot? I wouldn't give much for the chances of a windmill blade! |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 18:39, newshound wrote:
On 20/10/2020 13:11, Chris Hogg wrote: On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 12:47:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 20/10/2020 12:11, Roger Mills wrote: We could even see refilling stations producing their own hydrogen from renewable energy ROFLMAO! There's a levitating Gloucester Old Spot and a Wessex Saddleback! Pass me the* Purdey! They wouldn't last long - sliced into bacon rashers as soon as they hit one of the millions of whirling turbines. ROFL +1. Have you ever met an Old Spot? I wouldn't give much for the chances of a windmill blade! Indeed. Chunky rashers off Old Spots and as for Saddlebacks.... -- It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong. Thomas Sowell |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
In article
, Tim+ wrote: Roger Mills wrote: On 20/10/2020 12:26, Tim+ wrote: Or better still, dont waste that 50% and just stick the electricity straight into a BEV. Of course BEVs cant do everything a liquid/gas fuelled car can but theyre here NOW, they work and provide an excellent mode of transport for many people. Tim Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. True, but when you can do 95% of your journeys at 5p a mile or less for fuel (based on home charging), you find that you get happier about having a wait occasionally. ;-) but if the added up 'waits' mean you need to spend a night en-route much of the economy has gone. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
charles wrote:
In article , Tim+ wrote: Roger Mills wrote: On 20/10/2020 12:26, Tim+ wrote: Or better still, dont waste that 50% and just stick the electricity straight into a BEV. Of course BEVs cant do everything a liquid/gas fuelled car can but theyre here NOW, they work and provide an excellent mode of transport for many people. Tim Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. True, but when you can do 95% of your journeys at 5p a mile or less for fuel (based on home charging), you find that you get happier about having a wait occasionally. ;-) but if the added up 'waits' mean you need to spend a night en-route much of the economy has gone. If youre pig-heatedly determined not to do any planning, then yes, you could get caught out. Given that a cheap motel can cost less than a tankful of fuel though, I dont have to travel that far to more than make up the difference in cost. I get it though, youre scared of change. The thing is, EVs are coming, ICEs are on their way out. Once you realise how nice it is not to be driving a bag of spanners though youll wonder why you waited so long to switch. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
In article
, Tim+ wrote: charles wrote: In article , Tim+ wrote: Roger Mills wrote: On 20/10/2020 12:26, Tim+ wrote: Or better still, dont waste that 50% and just stick the electricity straight into a BEV. Of course BEVs cant do everything a liquid/gas fuelled car can but theyre here NOW, they work and provide an excellent mode of transport for many people. Tim Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. True, but when you can do 95% of your journeys at 5p a mile or less for fuel (based on home charging), you find that you get happier about having a wait occasionally. ;-) but if the added up 'waits' mean you need to spend a night en-route much of the economy has gone. If youre pig-heatedly determined not to do any planning, then yes, you could get caught out. I wasn't "not doing any planning". Planning showed me that a 400 mile, 7 hour journey would involve 4 stops instead of my usual one. Then, if a charging point was free when I got there, I'd have 3 x 40 minutes added to my journey time So 9 hours minimum. If I had to wait for a charging point to become free, it would be longer. That's when an overnight stay might have to happen. So, I've rejected the idea of buying an battery car, Given that a cheap motel can cost less than a tankful of fuel though, I dont have to travel that far to more than make up the difference in cost. I don't want to stay at a cheap motel, thank you. I get it though, youre scared of change. No, I was planning on buying an EV. Officially 245 miles range, but the dealer said only 180 miles in real life. I used the recommended App to plan a likely journey - that's when I saw the snag. If I was only doing local journeys, then an EV would be ideal, but I'm not. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
charles wrote:
In article , Tim+ wrote: charles wrote: In article , Tim+ wrote: Roger Mills wrote: On 20/10/2020 12:26, Tim+ wrote: Or better still, dont waste that 50% and just stick the electricity straight into a BEV. Of course BEVs cant do everything a liquid/gas fuelled car can but theyre here NOW, they work and provide an excellent mode of transport for many people. Tim Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. True, but when you can do 95% of your journeys at 5p a mile or less for fuel (based on home charging), you find that you get happier about having a wait occasionally. ;-) but if the added up 'waits' mean you need to spend a night en-route much of the economy has gone. If youre pig-heatedly determined not to do any planning, then yes, you could get caught out. I wasn't "not doing any planning". Planning showed me that a 400 mile, 7 hour journey would involve 4 stops instead of my usual one. Well it would if you bought a car with a small battery. Then, if a charging point was free when I got there, I'd have 3 x 40 minutes added to my journey time So 9 hours minimum. If I had to wait for a charging point to become free, it would be longer. That's when an overnight stay might have to happen. So, I've rejected the idea of buying an battery car, Given that a cheap motel can cost less than a tankful of fuel though, I dont have to travel that far to more than make up the difference in cost. I don't want to stay at a cheap motel, thank you. Well, Id be save about £35 for every 400 miles that you drive. Wouldnt take long for me to still be quids in after a fairly decent hotel. ;-) I get it though, youre scared of change. No, I was planning on buying an EV. Officially 245 miles range, but the dealer said only 180 miles in real life. I used the recommended App to plan a likely journey - that's when I saw the snag. If I was only doing local journeys, then an EV would be ideal, but I'm not. You made a bad choice of EV then. Real life range for mine is 240 to 270. Id only need one stop at a rapid charger. Dont condemn EVs just because you picked the wrong one for your needs. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 21:16, Tim+ wrote:
The thing is, EVs are coming, ICEs are on their way out. Once you realise how nice it is not to be driving a bag of spanners though youll wonder why you waited so long to switch. You remind me of the twerp who prompted me to start Gridwatch with his claim (in about 2009) that "by 2020 Britain will be entirely running on renewable energy" -- You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. Al Capone |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 20/10/2020 22:28, Tim+ wrote:
charles wrote: In article , Tim+ wrote: charles wrote: In article , Tim+ wrote: Roger Mills wrote: On 20/10/2020 12:26, Tim+ wrote: Or better still, dont waste that 50% and just stick the electricity straight into a BEV. Of course BEVs cant do everything a liquid/gas fuelled car can but theyre here NOW, they work and provide an excellent mode of transport for many people. Tim Although a lot of my journeys are short, I do enough long journeys to a BEV unviable with the range currently available. Hopefully battery development will yield higher capacity batteries without increasing the size and weight. Even so, a full charge will then take longer. True, but when you can do 95% of your journeys at 5p a mile or less for fuel (based on home charging), you find that you get happier about having a wait occasionally. ;-) but if the added up 'waits' mean you need to spend a night en-route much of the economy has gone. If youre pig-heatedly determined not to do any planning, then yes, you could get caught out. I wasn't "not doing any planning". Planning showed me that a 400 mile, 7 hour journey would involve 4 stops instead of my usual one. Well it would if you bought a car with a small battery. Then, if a charging point was free when I got there, I'd have 3 x 40 minutes added to my journey time So 9 hours minimum. If I had to wait for a charging point to become free, it would be longer. That's when an overnight stay might have to happen. So, I've rejected the idea of buying an battery car, Given that a cheap motel can cost less than a tankful of fuel though, I dont have to travel that far to more than make up the difference in cost. I don't want to stay at a cheap motel, thank you. Well, Id be save about £35 for every 400 miles that you drive. Wouldnt take long for me to still be quids in after a fairly decent hotel. ;-) I get it though, youre scared of change. No, I was planning on buying an EV. Officially 245 miles range, but the dealer said only 180 miles in real life. I used the recommended App to plan a likely journey - that's when I saw the snag. If I was only doing local journeys, then an EV would be ideal, but I'm not. You made a bad choice of EV then. Real life range for mine is 240 to 270. Id only need one stop at a rapid charger. Dont condemn EVs just because you picked the wrong one for your needs. That is a lie. All Evs have been tested by independent testers in real word conditions and I dont think any made it over 200 miles. Tim -- I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives. Leo Tolstoy |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/10/2020 21:16, Tim+ wrote: The thing is, EVs are coming, ICEs are on their way out. Once you realise how nice it is not to be driving a bag of spanners though youll wonder why you waited so long to switch. You remind me of the twerp who prompted me to start Gridwatch with his claim (in about 2009) that "by 2020 Britain will be entirely running on renewable energy" Its not me pushing the change to EV, its the government. If you enjoy paying 4 times more for your fuel than you need to and burying your head in the sand, keep your ICE vehicles. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/10/2020 22:28, Tim+ wrote: You made a bad choice of EV then. Real life range for mine is 240 to 270. Id only need one stop at a rapid charger. Dont condemn EVs just because you picked the wrong one for your needs. That is a lie. All Evs have been tested by independent testers in real word conditions and I dont think any made it over 200 miles. You are so seriously out of date its laughable. Clearly not done any market research in years. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
In article
, Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 20/10/2020 22:28, Tim+ wrote: You made a bad choice of EV then. Real life range for mine is 240 to 270. Id only need one stop at a rapid charger. Dont condemn EVs just because you picked the wrong one for your needs. That is a lie. All Evs have been tested by independent testers in real word conditions and I dont think any made it over 200 miles. You are so seriously out of date its laughable. Clearly not done any market research in years. The EV I was contemplating buyingbhad an advertised range of 235 miles. Real mileage 180. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 21/10/2020 08:11, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 20/10/2020 21:16, Tim+ wrote: The thing is, EVs are coming, ICEs are on their way out. Once you realise how nice it is not to be driving a bag of spanners though youll wonder why you waited so long to switch. You remind me of the twerp who prompted me to start Gridwatch with his claim (in about 2009) that "by 2020 Britain will be entirely running on renewable energy" Its not me pushing the change to EV, its the government. Stra3w man. I never said you were. If you enjoy paying 4 times more for your fuel than you need to Because of government taxation, only...how soon before 'road electricity' is taxed by a 'smart meter' on your car? and burying your head in the sand, It is not a matter of religion with others than you, it is a matter of common sense. Right now they work better for most people. keep your ICE vehicles. I will thanks, for now. Tim -- There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. Mark Twain |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 21/10/2020 08:11, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 20/10/2020 22:28, Tim+ wrote: You made a bad choice of EV then. Real life range for mine is 240 to 270. Id only need one stop at a rapid charger. Dont condemn EVs just because you picked the wrong one for your needs. That is a lie. All Evs have been tested by independent testers in real word conditions and I dont think any made it over 200 miles. You are so seriously out of date its laughable. Clearly not done any market research in years. no this was two months ago. So now the sneers are happening I KNOW you are lying. Tim -- There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. Mark Twain |
So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'
On 21/10/2020 09:10, charles wrote:
In article , Tim+ wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 20/10/2020 22:28, Tim+ wrote: You made a bad choice of EV then. Real life range for mine is 240 to 270. Id only need one stop at a rapid charger. Dont condemn EVs just because you picked the wrong one for your needs. That is a lie. All Evs have been tested by independent testers in real word conditions and I dont think any made it over 200 miles. You are so seriously out of date its laughable. Clearly not done any market research in years. The EV I was contemplating buyingbhad an advertised range of 235 miles. Real mileage 180. That was about what the ones I saw being tested did - tesla, I pace and something japanese. They ran them till they stopped. I think my current car is reckoned to be 50mpg in 'official tests', in practice I am hard pressed to get over 35.... -- There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. Mark Twain |
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