I popped past Mums earlier and she's given me a couple of old torches
to look at because she has seen mention of power cuts and 'she tried
all the torches and none of them worked'.

So, whilst I'm sure I can get them working, they are likely
incandescent and so probably not give the best run-time for the size
etc.

Now she's probably forgotten I gave her at least 3 of those plug in
rechargeable movement detection / torches (that I think come on
automatically if the power fails) but I wondered if anyone had an
recommendations / thoughts for a decent 'lamp', something that would
light up a room but that she could carry / reposition that would last
a good few hours please?

Again, I'm looking for something someone here has had personally
experience of and thought / thinks was a good bit of kit.

Reliable, easy to operate, light ish (she's still pretty able for a
90yr old so it doesn't have to be featherweight but nothing based on a
car battery). ;-)

I've got a genuine Tilley lamp and know it puts out a fair bit of
light [1] but not something I want Mum playing with. ;-)

I also know you can get things that look like Tilley lamps but are LED
based but didn't need that 'style' if it was just a gimmick, a play on
the real lamp etc.

Cheers, T i m

[1] The last time we used the real Tilley lamp was at the after party
at an 'Arb' show and it lit up a large gazebo thing for about 20
people with no issues. ;-)

Something that sits in a holder and is on permanent trickle charge, I
suppose.

Bill

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 06:21:09 +0100, williamwright wrote:

Something that sits in a holder and is on permanent trickle charge, I
suppose.

OP's mother is supposed to have three of those already... I suspect:

1) They now have dead rechargeable batteries due to being cooked on
"trickle charge" or by being kept in a drawer unused.

2) Most wall sockets are at skirting height. 90 year old mother may
have difficulty reaching that low down.

3) Won't "light up a room".

4) Won't have a runtime of "a good few hours".

Our "light up a room" for "a good few hours" are camping gas
lanterns. One has a piezo ignitor so no looking for matches in the
dark. The self sealing "click" gas canisters avoids the problem of
removing a pierced container type one before it's empty. Not really
suitable for 90 yo mother for similar reasons to the Tilley lamp.
Though at least you don't have to pump it up and mess about with
meths preheating a gas lantern.

We also have a Uniross DL828 rechargeable twin 8" tube flourescent
lantern. Reasonable light and long runtime and shelf life from a 6 V
SLA battery. It left plugged in on "trickle charge" and set to come
on when the power goes. Again the "trickle charge" will kill the
battery. I just cycle it a couple of times one a year. Trouble is
google only coughs up two images of it, so getting one might be
problematical.

Similar to the wall socket emergency torch Aldi had some 3" dia, self
contained, battery operated (3 x AA), so can mount anywhere, lights a
while back. These have a PIR and light level sensor, so only trigger
whith movement and low light levels. They do switch off after about a
minute but instantly retrigger on movement if the light level is
still low. They come with a twist action base so can be removed and
used like a torch,. The base also has, keyhole fixing holes, a magnet
and hanging hoop. Out of the box they are F'ing bright, too bright
really, instant spots before the eyes if you glance at one when it's
on. The "low" light level is also bit high but both the brightness
and light level can be adjusted by changing/adding resistors inside.
There is probably a post from me about that in here, somewhere. Out
of the box one would almost "light up a room" but the auto switch off
could be a PITA.

I've got a couple as automatic, "light to find a torch by" light
sources, work very well and battery life is good, even the one that
gets triggered at least a couple of time a day is still on it's first
set of (supplied) alkaline batteries after about a year, note this is
after the brightness mod.

"Lightway 15 SMD Motion Sensor Light", no longer from Aldi at £5 but
loads of similar ones on eBay/Amazon at around £8. The little things
like mounting options detachable base, auto/off/on slide switch, etc
may well vary and make sure it's 3xAA not AAA. B-)

I've yet to find a battery light source that can match the
omni-directional, light level and runtime a gas lantern can do on a
small cylinder of gas. ie the equivalent of a 60 W GLS bulb for
around 6 hours. It ought to be possible, a mains 8W "filament" LED
bulb chucks out about the same as a 60 W GLS. 8 W @ 12 V = 600 mA for
6 hours = 4 Ahr a small SLA...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 10:24:44 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 06:21:09 +0100, williamwright wrote:

Something that sits in a holder and is on permanent trickle charge, I
suppose.

OP's mother is supposed to have three of those already... I suspect:

Correct.

1) They now have dead rechargeable batteries due to being cooked on
"trickle charge"

That could be the case but one (from the kitchen) does get taken off
it's holder now and again by us, if *we* need some extra light (even
if Mum doesn't).

or by being kept in a drawer unused.

Nope, in this case they are all used, one by the front door, one in
the kitchen and one in the garage (the garage fluros take ages to fire
up so you are turning them off at the other end of the garage before
they have come on, assuming you have made it there without tripping
over). ;-)

2) Most wall sockets are at skirting height. 90 year old mother may
have difficulty reaching that low down.

True of the one by the front door, the other two are at a good height.

3) Won't "light up a room".

They will enough to be able to move about safely but not to do
anything much more (but that could be good enough as a stage one, till
she finds her emergency lighting). ;-)

4) Won't have a runtime of "a good few hours".

TBF, I don't think we have ever been there with them on to have an
idea how long they will actually last and they certainly won't be
whatever they are supposed to be from new.

Our "light up a room" for "a good few hours" are camping gas
lanterns. One has a piezo ignitor so no looking for matches in the
dark. The self sealing "click" gas canisters avoids the problem of
removing a pierced container type one before it's empty. Not really
suitable for 90 yo mother for similar reasons to the Tilley lamp.

Well, actually, she probably could deal with that (she's possibly not
yer stereotypical frail 90 yr old lady, she rubbed down and teak oiled
all the woodwork around the lean-to sliding door the other day ...)

Though at least you don't have to pump it up and mess about with
meths preheating a gas lantern.

For me the risk would be more the heat / fire than her ability to use
it as such ... and fumes?

We also have a Uniross DL828 rechargeable twin 8" tube flourescent
lantern. Reasonable light and long runtime and shelf life from a 6 V
SLA battery. It left plugged in on "trickle charge" and set to come
on when the power goes. Again the "trickle charge" will kill the
battery. I just cycle it a couple of times one a year. Trouble is
google only coughs up two images of it, so getting one might be
problematical.

Ok, that sounded quite a good solution.

Similar to the wall socket emergency torch Aldi had some 3" dia, self
contained, battery operated (3 x AA), so can mount anywhere, lights a
while back. These have a PIR and light level sensor, so only trigger
whith movement and low light levels.

(as do the current ones Mum has (bought from Homebase I think))

They do switch off after about a
minute but instantly retrigger on movement if the light level is
still low.

Yup.

They come with a twist action base so can be removed and
used like a torch,.

These are magnetic or summat, drop onto a holster thing. Flat thing
with a torch at the end. They replaced the more cylindrical ones as
they failed one by one (often the inductive charging).

The base also has, keyhole fixing holes, a magnet
and hanging hoop. Out of the box they are F'ing bright, too bright
really, instant spots before the eyes if you glance at one when it's
on.

And that can be a thing can't it. I was discharging a 36V Li-Ion
battery yesterday (testing a new BMS) though 4 x 50W 12V headlamps in
series so they weren't at full brightness but after looking at them to
check which filaments I was using on each, I couldn't see much
afterwards. ;-(

The "low" light level is also bit high but both the brightness
and light level can be adjusted by changing/adding resistors inside.
There is probably a post from me about that in here, somewhere. Out
of the box one would almost "light up a room" but the auto switch off
could be a PITA.

Yeah.

I've got a couple as automatic, "light to find a torch by" light
sources, work very well and battery life is good, even the one that
gets triggered at least a couple of time a day is still on it's first
set of (supplied) alkaline batteries after about a year, note this is
after the brightness mod.

OK.

"Lightway 15 SMD Motion Sensor Light", no longer from Aldi at £5 but
loads of similar ones on eBay/Amazon at around £8. The little things
like mounting options detachable base, auto/off/on slide switch, etc
may well vary and make sure it's 3xAA not AAA. B-)

Found I can see why they might be 'bright' as the LEDs are behind a
clear lens. I think a 'lantern' type light might be behind more of a
frosted / diffusing type glass?

I've yet to find a battery light source that can match the
omni-directional, light level and runtime a gas lantern can do on a
small cylinder of gas.

Yeah, I might check those out as well, thanks.

ie the equivalent of a 60 W GLS bulb for
around 6 hours.

Plus a bit of warmth (good in the winter). Luckily mum has a wall
mounted gas fire in the lounge so wouldn't be cold.

It ought to be possible, a mains 8W "filament" LED
bulb chucks out about the same as a 60 W GLS. 8 W @ 12 V = 600 mA for
6 hours = 4 Ahr a small SLA...

Yeah.

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:52:52 +0100, T i m wrote:

"Lightway 15 SMD Motion Sensor Light", ...

Found I can see why they might be 'bright' as the LEDs are behind a
clear lens. I think a 'lantern' type light might be behind more of a
frosted / diffusing type glass?

I tried a bit of 216 diffusion, one and two layers. I just got a
larger softer spot before the eyes. B-) Hence the hardware mod.

The LEDs are still very close to the diffusion though, getting a
couple of inches between them ought to make the source bigger thus
less bright for the same radiated light level.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 10:24:44 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

snip

Our "light up a room" for "a good few hours" are camping gas
lanterns. One has a piezo ignitor so no looking for matches in the
dark.

It looks like they do a couple of versions but only one with Piezo
ignition.

https://www.campingaz.com/uk/p-23519...4-plus-pz.aspx

The self sealing "click" gas canisters avoids the problem of
removing a pierced container type one before it's empty.

I think I have that in the form of a camping stove (or two).

As you say, the good thing(s) about those is the level of light and
being 'always available' (subject to a stock of gas canisters etc).

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 15:12:19 +0100, T i m wrote:

As you say, the good thing(s) about those is the level of light and
being 'always available' (subject to a stock of gas canisters etc).

Yeah, the "always available" is good. I have some piercable
cyclinders that where proably bought in the mid 1970's, What battery
has a 45 year shelf life with no loss of stored energy?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 17:43:13 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 15:12:19 +0100, T i m wrote:

As you say, the good thing(s) about those is the level of light and
being 'always available' (subject to a stock of gas canisters etc).

Yeah, the "always available" is good.

Yeah. ;-)

I have some piercable
cyclinders that where proably bought in the mid 1970's,

I have some Colemans spirit here that I hope is still sufficiently
spirity, ready should I need to press my Tilley lamp into action [1].

What battery
has a 45 year shelf life with no loss of stored energy?

None that many could afford for a backup lamp I don't suppose. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] I had a quick look on the Tilley web site and realised I don't
believe I have the lighter thing. I think I've just poured spirit into
the cup bit and lit it that way (or was it meths)?

On Saturday, 17 October 2020 21:52:14 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
I popped past Mums earlier and she's given me a couple of old torches
to look at because she has seen mention of power cuts and 'she tried
all the torches and none of them worked'.

So, whilst I'm sure I can get them working, they are likely
incandescent and so probably not give the best run-time for the size
etc.

Now she's probably forgotten I gave her at least 3 of those plug in
rechargeable movement detection / torches (that I think come on
automatically if the power fails) but I wondered if anyone had an
recommendations / thoughts for a decent 'lamp', something that would
light up a room but that she could carry / reposition that would last
a good few hours please?

Again, I'm looking for something someone here has had personally
experience of and thought / thinks was a good bit of kit.

Reliable, easy to operate, light ish (she's still pretty able for a
90yr old so it doesn't have to be featherweight but nothing based on a
car battery). ;-)

I've got a genuine Tilley lamp and know it puts out a fair bit of
light [1] but not something I want Mum playing with. ;-)

I also know you can get things that look like Tilley lamps but are LED
based but didn't need that 'style' if it was just a gimmick, a play on
the real lamp etc.

Cheers, T i m

[1] The last time we used the real Tilley lamp was at the after party
at an 'Arb' show and it lit up a large gazebo thing for about 20
people with no issues. ;-)

We have one of those small, light, plug-in charger-with-torch things.

It works as advertised. But not that useful.

I actually use an acceptably decent LED torch. Uses 4 rechargeable batteries. And if the torch isn't to hand when the power goes off, just use my mobile phone to find the torch.

I purposely chose one with a good light quality - must be close to a decent 4000K LED lamp. That makes it much more acceptable than the typical blue-ish cast of LED torches. Has multiple light levels which allows extremely long life at low brightness. But two issues I don't like. If I carry it in a bag, the switch is far too sensitive so very easy for it to come on accidentally. And it would be so very convenient if it charged from USB.

I'd get something similar again, if needed.

I also often carry a USB powerpack. And have a tiny silicone LED lamp that plugs straight into USB. Would last days, if needed! Cost of lamp almost nothing from Aliexpress. Powerpack used for phone anyway so no additional cost (from my point of view).

RNIB sell little lamps that you just press to give reasonable illumination,
and they also sell task lights, some of them rechargeable.
I'm sure they are around elsewhere.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 17 October 2020 21:52:14 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
I popped past Mums earlier and she's given me a couple of old torches
to look at because she has seen mention of power cuts and 'she tried
all the torches and none of them worked'.

So, whilst I'm sure I can get them working, they are likely
incandescent and so probably not give the best run-time for the size
etc.

Now she's probably forgotten I gave her at least 3 of those plug in
rechargeable movement detection / torches (that I think come on
automatically if the power fails) but I wondered if anyone had an
recommendations / thoughts for a decent 'lamp', something that would
light up a room but that she could carry / reposition that would last
a good few hours please?

Again, I'm looking for something someone here has had personally
experience of and thought / thinks was a good bit of kit.

Reliable, easy to operate, light ish (she's still pretty able for a
90yr old so it doesn't have to be featherweight but nothing based on a
car battery). ;-)

I've got a genuine Tilley lamp and know it puts out a fair bit of
light [1] but not something I want Mum playing with. ;-)

I also know you can get things that look like Tilley lamps but are LED
based but didn't need that 'style' if it was just a gimmick, a play on
the real lamp etc.

Cheers, T i m

[1] The last time we used the real Tilley lamp was at the after party
at an 'Arb' show and it lit up a large gazebo thing for about 20
people with no issues. ;-)

We have one of those small, light, plug-in charger-with-torch things.

It works as advertised. But not that useful.

I actually use an acceptably decent LED torch. Uses 4 rechargeable
batteries. And if the torch isn't to hand when the power goes off, just use
my mobile phone to find the torch.

I purposely chose one with a good light quality - must be close to a decent
4000K LED lamp. That makes it much more acceptable than the typical blue-ish
cast of LED torches. Has multiple light levels which allows extremely long
life at low brightness. But two issues I don't like. If I carry it in a bag,
the switch is far too sensitive so very easy for it to come on accidentally.
And it would be so very convenient if it charged from USB.

I'd get something similar again, if needed.

I also often carry a USB powerpack. And have a tiny silicone LED lamp that
plugs straight into USB. Would last days, if needed! Cost of lamp almost
nothing from Aliexpress. Powerpack used for phone anyway so no additional
cost (from my point of view).

On 18/10/2020 08:43, polygonum_on_google wrote:
I actually use an acceptably decent LED torch. Uses 4 rechargeable batteries. And if the torch isn't to hand when the power goes off, just use my mobile phone to find the torch.

Any LED torch fitted with something like energiser lithium batteries
will do. The batteries last for years if only used occasionally.

elderly females and 'rechargeable' anything are poor companions.

On 17/10/2020 21:52, T i m wrote:
I popped past Mums earlier and she's given me a couple of old torches
to look at because she has seen mention of power cuts and 'she tried
all the torches and none of them worked'.

So, whilst I'm sure I can get them working, they are likely
incandescent and so probably not give the best run-time for the size
etc.

Now she's probably forgotten I gave her at least 3 of those plug in
rechargeable movement detection / torches (that I think come on
automatically if the power fails) but I wondered if anyone had an
recommendations / thoughts for a decent 'lamp', something that would
light up a room but that she could carry / reposition that would last
a good few hours please?

Again, I'm looking for something someone here has had personally
experience of and thought / thinks was a good bit of kit.

Reliable, easy to operate, light ish (she's still pretty able for a
90yr old so it doesn't have to be featherweight but nothing based on a
car battery). ;-)

I've got a genuine Tilley lamp and know it puts out a fair bit of
light [1] but not something I want Mum playing with. ;-)

I also know you can get things that look like Tilley lamps but are LED
based but didn't need that 'style' if it was just a gimmick, a play on
the real lamp etc.

Cheers, T i m

[1] The last time we used the real Tilley lamp was at the after party
at an 'Arb' show and it lit up a large gazebo thing for about 20
people with no issues. ;-)

had two brands of chinese ones plugged into and rechargeed in a 13a
socket in the hall that came on as you passed by and you could lift them
out and use them as a torch but with all things chinese they didn't last
long.....couple of years each

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 08:59:07 +0100, "Jim GM4 DHJ ..."
wrote:

snip

had two brands of chinese ones plugged into and rechargeed in a 13a
socket in the hall that came on as you passed by and you could lift them
out and use them as a torch but with all things chinese they didn't last
long.....couple of years each

I bought the components to repair the ones like that we (and Mum) has,
just a transistor and cap I think in the inductive charger circuit).

Cheers, T i m

On 18/10/2020 11:55, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 08:59:07 +0100, "Jim GM4 DHJ ..."
wrote:

snip

had two brands of chinese ones plugged into and rechargeed in a 13a
socket in the hall that came on as you passed by and you could lift them
out and use them as a torch but with all things chinese they didn't last
long.....couple of years each

I bought the components to repair the ones like that we (and Mum) has,
just a transistor and cap I think in the inductive charger circuit).

Cheers, T i m

I fixed mine binning them...chinky junk

On 18/10/2020 12:41, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:

I fixed mine binning them...chinky junk

Chinky junks are OK if you add an outboard.

Bill

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 15:41:26 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

On 18/10/2020 12:41, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:

I fixed mine binning them...chinky junk

Chinky junks are OK if you add an outboard.

;-)

Especially if it's an old car engine with some scaffold pole for a
prop shaft. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Whatever happened to that wonderful fluorescent torch Pifco made that ran on
D Cells, I've had the same batteries in it for a few years, and whenever
anyone has to go to the cupboard under the stairs its on for an hour or so.
It is obviously quite efficient.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"T i m" wrote in message
news
I popped past Mums earlier and she's given me a couple of old torches
to look at because she has seen mention of power cuts and 'she tried
all the torches and none of them worked'.

So, whilst I'm sure I can get them working, they are likely
incandescent and so probably not give the best run-time for the size
etc.

Now she's probably forgotten I gave her at least 3 of those plug in
rechargeable movement detection / torches (that I think come on
automatically if the power fails) but I wondered if anyone had an
recommendations / thoughts for a decent 'lamp', something that would
light up a room but that she could carry / reposition that would last
a good few hours please?

Again, I'm looking for something someone here has had personally
experience of and thought / thinks was a good bit of kit.

Reliable, easy to operate, light ish (she's still pretty able for a
90yr old so it doesn't have to be featherweight but nothing based on a
car battery). ;-)

I've got a genuine Tilley lamp and know it puts out a fair bit of
light [1] but not something I want Mum playing with. ;-)

I also know you can get things that look like Tilley lamps but are LED
based but didn't need that 'style' if it was just a gimmick, a play on
the real lamp etc.

Cheers, T i m

[1] The last time we used the real Tilley lamp was at the after party
at an 'Arb' show and it lit up a large gazebo thing for about 20
people with no issues. ;-)

On 17/10/2020 21:52, T i m wrote:
I popped past Mums earlier and she's given me a couple of old torches
to look at because she has seen mention of power cuts and 'she tried
all the torches and none of them worked'.

So, whilst I'm sure I can get them working, they are likely
incandescent and so probably not give the best run-time for the size
etc.

My suggestion would be for at least one *fixed* mains powered emergency
light in the kitchen or living room where she spends most of her time.
(and test it periodically) We have two such true emergency fluoro lights
which are getting a little long in the tooth now. 4.5Ah battery ~2hr.

Inspection style LED torches are hard to beat for price performance
these days under a tenner for one that will last a few hours. Bright
enough to see by though not to fully light a room to normal levels.

Now she's probably forgotten I gave her at least 3 of those plug in
rechargeable movement detection / torches (that I think come on
automatically if the power fails) but I wondered if anyone had an
recommendations / thoughts for a decent 'lamp', something that would
light up a room but that she could carry / reposition that would last
a good few hours please?

The other thing to consider seriously is the risk of being away from any
source of light after dark when there is a power cut. Mains has become
so reliable these days that most people cannot imagine that scenario!

3M had a lovely little filament lamp based torch made of a dayglo
plastic doped with strontium aluminate which after daily exposure to
sunlight would glow for up to 8 hours. You could always find it in the
pitch dark - you could even see by its glow once dark adapted.
Unfortunately it failed to sell as people could not imagine how useful
it is to be able to find an emergency light in total darkness

This tape I think uses the same passive technology:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glow-In-T...K/164316882163

A few pieces of this stuff where it will catch the sun in daytime means
that even in the pitch black you will still have a little bit of light.

You can obtain the same effect with modern LED torches by bridging the
on/off switch with between 1M and 10M so that it glows very dimly.

Again, I'm looking for something someone here has had personally
experience of and thought / thinks was a good bit of kit.

Reliable, easy to operate, light ish (she's still pretty able for a
90yr old so it doesn't have to be featherweight but nothing based on a
car battery). ;-)

I'd suggest a couple of AA powered inspection lights like these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COB-LED-3...s/193471623113

At 3W it would only be good for an hour or so on a set of AA batteries
so you may want a 1W unit or something that takes chunkier batteries.

It is a trade off between output, duration and weight.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sunday, 18 October 2020 09:25:03 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:


3M had a lovely little filament lamp based torch made of a dayglo
plastic doped with strontium aluminate which after daily exposure to
sunlight would glow for up to 8 hours. You could always find it in the
pitch dark - you could even see by its glow once dark adapted.
Unfortunately it failed to sell as people could not imagine how useful
it is to be able to find an emergency light in total darkness


You can readily buy the powder itself. Can then use it in, say, PVA and achieve all sorts of results.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 09:24:54 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

My suggestion would be for at least one *fixed* mains powered emergency
light in the kitchen or living room where she spends most of her time.

That's another partial solution but unless regulary tested the
batteries get cooked by being on constant "trickle charge". We have
one in the boiler room, where the CU's are, that cooked it batteries,
found out the hard way. They also only have a nominal 3 hr runtime
and non-replaceable (as in standard dry cells) batteries, once it's
flat, it's flat...

The previously mentioned battery "motion sensor lights" are sort of
self testing if normal activity triggers them occasionally. Like
entering the room with curtains closed before switching main light
on.

The other thing to consider seriously is the risk of being away from any
source of light after dark when there is a power cut. Mains has become
so reliable these days that most people cannot imagine that scenario!

Aye, even if a failing light bulb trips an MCB the vast majority of
the population have street lights, they never get exposed to a
moonless, overcast night when there is absolutely zero natural light.
Take away *all* man made sources and it's very dark, eyes open unable
to see *anything*, unvervingly dark. Once experienced one appreciates
why all manner of myths and legends about what lurks out in the
darkness exist.

A few pieces of this stuff where it will catch the sun in daytime means
that even in the pitch black you will still have a little bit of light.

Aye, in the otherwise totaly dark, unable to see anything, scenario
even the tinyest glimmer of light can keep you orienated. You still
can't actually see anything but that tiny glimmer gives you a static
reference point.

Depends on how good 90 yo mothers night vision is and how alert. A
few stratigically place bits of luminous tape might be all she needs
to carefully make her way to the "torch drawer" or WHY. Though TBH a
motion sesnor light near her chair is probably better.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sunday, 18 October 2020 11:00:19 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
That's another partial solution but unless regulary tested the
batteries get cooked by being on constant "trickle charge".

There are self-testing ones available, eg
https://www.safelincs.co.uk/self-tes...ency-lighting/

But if mum is getting periodic visits, even quarterly, an ordinary one can be switched off for an hour while the smoke detector is also checked, etc.

I've just remembered to switch mine off now for a discharge :-)

One in the kitchen, one over the stairs, and possibly one in the loo, should keep someone going for an hour or so. If the power cut is longer than that, most people can take themselves safely to bed.

A battery LED lamp with good quality long-life alkaline batteries is probably more reliable than anything rechargeable. Duracell Industrial claim a shelf life of up to 7 years.

Owain

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 04:01:46 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

That's another partial solution but unless regulary tested the
batteries get cooked by being on constant "trickle charge".

There are self-testing ones available, eg
https://www.safelincs.co.uk/self-tes...ency-lighting/

Hum, not sure if that hastens the demise of the batteries or not.
B-)
What really annoys me is the use of "non-standard" battery packs. The
one I have that has failed takes some weird cell size, currently
solved with AA NiMH rechargeables and sticky tape...

But if mum is getting periodic visits, even quarterly, an ordinary one
can be switched off for an hour while the smoke detector is also
checked, etc.

Provided you remember to switch it back "on"... I like
systems/procedures that work by default rather than requireing any
action to be taken. Like the "self test" of battery motion sensor
lights.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 18/10/2020 11:00, Dave Liquorice wrote:
That's another partial solution but unless regulary tested the
batteries get cooked by being on constant "trickle charge".

This is an oft-repeated fallacy. A half decent intelligent charger won't
do this. I have just tested an 8Ah lead-acid that's been on charge since
August 2014 with breaks and discharge only when we've had power cuts,
and it's fine. Comes out at 5Ah when discharged at 250mA which I think
is good enough.

Obviously cheap chargers are a different kettle of fish entirely. I
recently encountered a wall-wart style thing that had unconditional
no-load voltage of 16.3V. It had killed a 12V lead-acid.

Bill

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 15:48:37 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

On 18/10/2020 11:00, Dave Liquorice wrote:
That's another partial solution but unless regulary tested the
batteries get cooked by being on constant "trickle charge".

This is an oft-repeated fallacy. A half decent intelligent charger won't
do this.

Agreed, however, many batter chemistries 'don't like' being left at
too high (and certainly not too low) state of charge when in storage
(= standby for things like this).

eg, On my fancy iCharger (multi-chemistry / cell) battery charger on
the lithium programs it has several 'Lithium's' along with charge,
balance charge, fast charge, cycle (CD or DC), discharge, discharge+
(external load) and monitor (so you can monitor the cell voltage
balance when being charged by something else) it has 'Storage', that
will drop all the cells down to 3.7 volts (or whatever for that
chemistry) and balance them all at that (it also has 'regenerative
discharge' where it dumps the discharge load into a supply battery
(saves having a 'wasteful' load [1]). ;-)

I have just tested an 8Ah lead-acid that's been on charge since
August 2014 with breaks and discharge only when we've had power cuts,
and it's fine. Comes out at 5Ah when discharged at 250mA which I think
is good enough.

Yup, I have loads of lower capacity batteries that are still good for
stuff.

One set of 6 x 18650's that should be around 2000mAh but are only 150
mAh aren't so good. ;-)

Obviously cheap chargers are a different kettle of fish entirely. I
recently encountered a wall-wart style thing that had unconditional
no-load voltage of 16.3V. It had killed a 12V lead-acid.

Quite. The last battery charger I bought, an Optimate 12/24V jobby was
around £100 but when its looking after £400's worth of battery (2 x
mobility scooter), that's not a bad investment IMHO.

Cheers, T i m

[1] Good use for a big old 12V battery you want to keep topped up. You
can even set the max regen charge current and it will manage the load
current to not exceed that so as to not 'cook' the load battery. ;-)

https://www.icharger.co.nz/icharger-1010b

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 15:48:37 +0100, williamwright wrote:

That's another partial solution but unless regulary tested the
batteries get cooked by being on constant "trickle charge".

This is an oft-repeated fallacy. A half decent intelligent charger won't
do this.
snip
Obviously cheap chargers are a different kettle of fish entirely.

Perzackerly most kit doesn't have any thing approaching an
"intelligent charger". Constant current at some vague voltage if
you're lucky.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 17:34:55 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

snip

Perzackerly most kit doesn't have any thing approaching an
"intelligent charger". Constant current at some vague voltage if
you're lucky.

I've just (mostly) repaired one of the first plug in / wireless
automatic PIR / power-cut torch lamps we got and eventually failed.

The fault was a burned out resistor in the charging base bit but all
the charging and other intelligence is in the actual torch.

I replaced the resistor for a slightly higher power one and although
it put a bit of power to the torch (so the inductive coupling was
working again) the lithium cell (14430) was very low voltage and I've
ordered a replacement (really for the S&G's).

If that works I'll look at doing some of the other bases we have
kicking about. ;-)

Some vinegar got rid of all the battery leakage from one of Mums old
torches so that was another one rescued. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 14:58:59 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 15:48:37 +0100, williamwright wrote:

On 18/10/2020 11:00, Dave Liquorice wrote:
That's another partial solution but unless regulary tested the
batteries get cooked by being on constant "trickle charge".

This is an oft-repeated fallacy. A half decent intelligent charger won't
do this. I have just tested an 8Ah lead-acid that's been on charge since
August 2014 with breaks and discharge only when we've had power cuts,
and it's fine. Comes out at 5Ah when discharged at 250mA which I think
is good enough.

Over the years I've spent a fortune on so called intelligent chargers.


The problem with many of them is that they aren't ... or are but are
too high powered for the cells?

I have a couple of Ansmann 'Energy' chargers (AAA, AA, C, D and PP3)
and 8 and a 16 and they are good, particularly good because they
*aren't* rapid / fast chargers.

Good but like all good things, not cheap:

https://www.ansmann.de/en/battery-ch...energy-16-plus

All I have to show for it is a pile of failed rechargeables

And also because many 'consumer' rechargeable are cheap and nasty. ;-(

When I used to race RC electric cars we used to go for things like
'matched' Sanyo cells (where all the cells in a pack were matched for
capacity / internal resistance etc) which mean the tended to last well
as a pack, even when pushed very hard (rapid charging and very rapid
discharging). That said, the more packs you had, the more rest you
could give them between charges and the longer they would all last.

I have some Saft (another good name) 4Ah Ni-Cads that used to be in my
radio when I was at BT for 5 years (and used daily and charged
regularly) that up until quite recently were being used regularly and
so working pretty well, and they are nearly 50 years old now!

Obviously cheap chargers are a different kettle of fish entirely. I
recently encountered a wall-wart style thing that had unconditional
no-load voltage of 16.3V. It had killed a 12V lead-acid.

How about UPS ? I gave up after having to buy a 3rd SLA battery for my
UPS in 6 years. Never once actually used when the power failed, just sat
there slowly ballooning.

I've not checked the battery in the UPS on the Mrs's PC recently but
the last time we had a powerout it worked ok ... and that must be over
5 years old now (but that reminds me to check it again). ;-)

With a lot of these UPS's (her's is an APC) the charging voltage is
set a bit high and whilst you might lose a bit of capacity setting it
lower, the batteries last a lot longer.

Cheers, T i m

On 18/10/2020 15:58, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 15:48:37 +0100, williamwright wrote:

On 18/10/2020 11:00, Dave Liquorice wrote:
That's another partial solution but unless regulary tested the
batteries get cooked by being on constant "trickle charge".

This is an oft-repeated fallacy. A half decent intelligent charger won't
do this. I have just tested an 8Ah lead-acid that's been on charge since
August 2014 with breaks and discharge only when we've had power cuts,
and it's fine. Comes out at 5Ah when discharged at 250mA which I think
is good enough.

Over the years I've spent a fortune on so called intelligent chargers.
All I have to show for it is a pile of failed rechargeables

I think they're better with larger lead-acid than small batteries.


Obviously cheap chargers are a different kettle of fish entirely. I
recently encountered a wall-wart style thing that had unconditional
no-load voltage of 16.3V. It had killed a 12V lead-acid.

How about UPS ? I gave up after having to buy a 3rd SLA battery for my
UPS in 6 years. Never once actually used when the power failed, just sat
there slowly ballooning.

I used to use UPSes to reduce problems with banks of sky boxes at
'critical' head ends (those serving systems where the reaction of the
residents to a failure of sky reception might be to murder each other).
The UPSes were fairly up market, (cost being no object in view of the
murdering each other issue) and I didn't have much trouble with battery
failures. That could be because the UPSes tended to be replaced every
few years anyway.

Bill

On 18/10/2020 11:16, Jethro_uk wrote:

I have no idea what the viability of the 20+ year old Honda generator we
had (but never used) for caravanning is ?

Now might be a good time to service it. We have already had one margin
call on UK electricity availability and winter hasn't started yet.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 10:16:04 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote:

Then a wind up lantern.

Wind up as in clockwork or generator/rechargeable batteries? Got a
version of the latter fro No1. Daughter when she went off to the
jungles Costa Rica for 12 weeks. Think it worked well enough but
wasn't "light up a room" brightness.

Do have an orginal, designed for Africa, Baygen clockwork radio, that
has a fairly hefty mechanisium I wonder how much power it can
generate...

I have no idea what the viability of the 20+ year old Honda generator we
had (but never used) for caravanning is ?

Time to give it a good service? As has been pointed out there has
been a margin warning already. Mind you only 7 of the 16 nukes are
running at "nominal full power", 5 are shutdown, 4 on reduced power.
4 of the shutdown ones are due back in December.

Ought to run up our set, on load for a couple of hours...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 18/10/2020 11:54, Dave Liquorice wrote:
I have no idea what the viability of the 20+ year old Honda generator we
had (but never used) for caravanning is ?
Time to give it a good service? As has been pointed out there has
been a margin warning already. Mind you only 7 of the 16 nukes are
running at "nominal full power", 5 are shutdown, 4 on reduced power.
4 of the shutdown ones are due back in December.

I keep my 2kW Honda in the house because I've found that if it's at 22C
it starts immediately but if it's been in the shed in winter it's a
bugger to start.

Bill

In message , Jethro_uk
writes

Then a wind up lantern.

That reminds me that I keep a wind up LED torch in the car. That works
well, although perhaps not suitable for what may be arthritic hands.
--
Graeme

In message , T i m
writes

I've got a genuine Tilley lamp and know it puts out a fair bit of
light [1] but not something I want Mum playing with. ;-)

Not sure my solution is really suitable for a 90 year old Mum, but we
have a Calor Gaz lantern and it is wonderful. No worry about keeping it
charged or finding batteries, and one lamp easily lights a whole room,
and is light (!) enough to carry around if required. We also have a
couple of matching single burner Gaz stoves, which share the same
cylinder type. Easy to make tea with a camping kettle.

We have ordinary torches too, of course, and several candles (with
spares, and matches/lighters), all in holders, from 'Wee Willie Winkie'
to a posh one with glass funnel. Even a paraffin lamp, but not Tilley,
just a wick and flame with glass funnel. Again, not necessarily the
type of thing recommended for a 90 year old.
--
Graeme

On 17/10/2020 21:52, T i m wrote:
I popped past Mums earlier and she's given me a couple of old torches
to look at because she has seen mention of power cuts and 'she tried
all the torches and none of them worked'.

So, whilst I'm sure I can get them working, they are likely
incandescent and so probably not give the best run-time for the size
etc.

Now she's probably forgotten I gave her at least 3 of those plug in
rechargeable movement detection / torches (that I think come on
automatically if the power fails) but I wondered if anyone had an
recommendations / thoughts for a decent 'lamp', something that would
light up a room but that she could carry / reposition that would last
a good few hours please?

Again, I'm looking for something someone here has had personally
experience of and thought / thinks was a good bit of kit.

Reliable, easy to operate, light ish (she's still pretty able for a
90yr old so it doesn't have to be featherweight but nothing based on a
car battery). ;-)

I've got a genuine Tilley lamp and know it puts out a fair bit of
light [1] but not something I want Mum playing with. ;-)

I also know you can get things that look like Tilley lamps but are LED
based but didn't need that 'style' if it was just a gimmick, a play on
the real lamp etc.

Cheers, T i m

[1] The last time we used the real Tilley lamp was at the after party
at an 'Arb' show and it lit up a large gazebo thing for about 20
people with no issues. ;-)



If you want to light up the room, you need a work light. One of these,
perhaps:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-l...0w-14-8v/895gy

It says 3 hours run time, but I think that's on the high setting. Should
be twice that on the lower setting.

Plus, she needs a small torch to carry around with her and keep by her
bed. So, two or three of those. Plus a pack of batteries.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I popped past Mums earlier and she's given me a couple of old torches
to look at because she has seen mention of power cuts and 'she tried
all the torches and none of them worked'.

So, whilst I'm sure I can get them working, they are likely
incandescent and so probably not give the best run-time for the size
etc.

Now she's probably forgotten I gave her at least 3 of those plug in
rechargeable movement detection / torches (that I think come on
automatically if the power fails) but I wondered if anyone had an
recommendations / thoughts for a decent 'lamp', something that would
light up a room but that she could carry / reposition that would last
a good few hours please?

Again, I'm looking for something someone here has had personally
experience of and thought / thinks was a good bit of kit.

Reliable, easy to operate, light ish (she's still pretty able for a
90yr old so it doesn't have to be featherweight but nothing based on a
car battery). ;-)

With a 90 year old - especially one who isn't technically savvy - I'd be
inclined to fit maintained lighting in critical parts of the house. It
should at least be fool proof.

BTW, Lidl some time back did a very nice emergency light - or just general
purpose inspection etc one. Basically a outdoor LED floodlight mounted in
a frame so you could adjust where it pointed, with a built in Li-Ion
battery. Good and bright and runs about 4 hours on a charge. And large
enough not to get lost in a drawer. Only disadvantage the usual wall wart
charger. Which could get lost.

Sitting on a table pointing upwards so the light bounces off the ceiling
gives a more than adequate emergency light.

--
*You! Off my planet!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

https://tinyurl.com/yxa6avtz

I use a good quality caplamp. It would be fine for your 90 year old. It
provides illumination everywhere I need it because it's on my head.
Variable brightness, Runs for a very long time on one charge. Put it on
full brightness and point it at the ceiling and it illuminates the room.
Very very superior to the sub-£20 caplamps that are more common.

Bill

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 15:40:19 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/yxa6avtz

I use a good quality caplamp. It would be fine for your 90 year old. It
provides illumination everywhere I need it because it's on my head.
Variable brightness, Runs for a very long time on one charge. Put it on
full brightness and point it at the ceiling and it illuminates the room.
Very very superior to the sub-£20 caplamps that are more common.

I'm not sure it would be superior to this: ;-)

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yxlgnbv2

We have had three for camping for years now and they are very good for
several reasons.

1) They are *very* compact. They can stay in your pocket till needed.

2) They give off a very useable light and (ours) cut out some leds
when the battery is low, rather than just plunging you in the dark.

3) They are very versatile re the fitting (built in recoiling strap).

4) They take 3 x AAA so you can just replace when flat (and / or use
rechargeable or their rechargeable pack).

5) They are very light.

Not to say what you linked to wouldn't be better in a light sense ...
;-)

I agree though that a head torch might be good for Mum when going
between rooms in the dark, leaving both her hands free to hold on etc.

Cheers, T i m

On 18/10/2020 16:34, T i m wrote:
https://tinyurl.com/yxa6avtz

I use a good quality caplamp. It would be fine for your 90 year old. It
provides illumination everywhere I need it because it's on my head.
Variable brightness, Runs for a very long time on one charge. Put it on
full brightness and point it at the ceiling and it illuminates the room.
Very very superior to the sub-£20 caplamps that are more common.

I'm not sure it would be superior to this:;-)

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yxlgnbv2

It would be far superior to that!

Bill

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 00:51:55 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

On 18/10/2020 16:34, T i m wrote:
https://tinyurl.com/yxa6avtz

I use a good quality caplamp. It would be fine for your 90 year old. It
provides illumination everywhere I need it because it's on my head.
Variable brightness, Runs for a very long time on one charge. Put it on
full brightness and point it at the ceiling and it illuminates the room.
Very very superior to the sub-£20 caplamps that are more common.

I'm not sure it would be superior to this:;-)

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yxlgnbv2

It would be far superior to that!

On what grounds though?

Is it lighter?

Is it instantly adjustable between any head size and anything else you
wanted to fit it to?

Does it take dry cells?

Is it cheaper?

How well would it fit if Mum had her hair in a bun?

Could she carry hers in a small pocket in case of a power cut?

Cheers, T i m

On 19/10/2020 13:51, T i m wrote:
It would be far superior to that!

On what grounds though?

Brighter, longer lasting, generally more lovely.

Is it lighter?

No but it isn't heavy enough to matter. It weighs less than a full
bladder so should be insignificant for any old person.

Is it instantly adjustable between any head size and anything else you
wanted to fit it to?

Yes absolutely. I fit mine to children, and also to the backs of chairs,
fence posts, and other temporary supports, in order to photograph
fungus, copulating invertebrates, and other interesting things, at night.


Does it take dry cells?

Good grief no. That would be pointless. Too much fumbling.


Is it cheaper?

€œThe cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.€� Wilde


How well would it fit if Mum had her hair in a bun?
It fits over a hard hat. I can't say for sure about a bun because I
don't have one.


Could she carry hers in a small pocket in case of a power cut?
Yes, I put mine in my jeans back pocket on the way to the pub if I'll be
coming back at dusk.

Bill

Cheers, T i m