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Free rusted metal
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid.
I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Any other ideas? https://imgur.com/47180QO |
Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 12:20, ss wrote:
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Hot air *might* work - but it will not tend to give the thermal shock you get from a blow torch or similar. (ideally you want bits to expand / contract bits of it at different rates to force some movement in the rusted contact surfaces) Any other ideas? The yanks seem to get good results with Evapo-rust leaving it soaking for a day or more. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Free rusted metal
ss wrote:
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. WD40 isn't necessarily the best thing for freeing rusted joints, 'proper' penetrating oil such as Plus-Gas may do better and/or other even more specialised formulae. -- Chris Green · |
Free rusted metal
ss wrote:
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Any other ideas? https://imgur.com/47180QO From the picture (and not being wholly familiar with lathe mechanics) I'm not quite clear what's supposed to slide on what. I *looks* as if the threaded screw is meant to rotate and move the lump of metal with a groove in it across the other U-section larger piece of metal. Given that I'm not quite clear why tapping at the green arrow points would help, especially the ones on the LHS. The harder I look the less I'm clear about what's meant to slide! :-) However, one thing that's worth trying (it's often worked for me) is to hit the seized joint so that you squeeze it, preferably with a heavy block or bigger hammer on the opposite side to increase the effect of the hitting. -- Chris Green · |
Free rusted metal
ss used his keyboard to write :
I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. WD40 is next to useless as a penetrating oil, try a proper penetrating oil or diesel. Hot air gun may help a little, I would hot and cold shock, spraying penetrating oil at the thread block interface so the cold contraction helps draw the oil in. |
Free rusted metal
On Saturday, 29 August 2020 13:34:37 UTC+1, wrote:
ss used his keyboard to write : I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. WD40 is next to useless as a penetrating oil, try a proper penetrating oil or diesel. +1. The best penetrating oil is ATF. It's 100% detergent oil. If no solvent is added it's just slower to penetrate. Hot air gun may help a little, I would hot and cold shock, spraying penetrating oil at the thread block interface so the cold contraction helps draw the oil in. Check out youtube, there are numerous ways to free up rusted parts. Evaporust is sponsoring lots of youtubers to promote their overpriced solution. Project Farm trialled some options. NT |
Free rusted metal
On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 12:41:13 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
ss wrote: Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. WD40 isn't necessarily the best thing for freeing rusted joints, 'proper' penetrating oil such as Plus-Gas may do better and/or other even more specialised formulae. Plus Gas and all those kind of products are pretty useless TBH, esp if they've been on the shelf for a while. Best results come from freshly mixing isopropyl alcohol with a thin hydrocarbon oil and giving that mixture time to penetrate. A heat gun is far too puny and not worth bothering with IMO. |
Free rusted metal
https://imgur.com/47180QO From the picture (and not being wholly familiar with lathe mechanics) I'm not quite clear what's supposed to slide on what. I *looks* as if the threaded screw is meant to rotate and move the lump of metal with a groove in it across the other U-section larger piece of metal. Given that I'm not quite clear why tapping at the green arrow points would help, especially the ones on the LHS. The harder I look the less I'm clear about what's meant to slide! :-) However, one thing that's worth trying (it's often worked for me) is to hit the seized joint so that you squeeze it, preferably with a heavy block or bigger hammer on the opposite side to increase the effect of the hitting. The threaded screw turns and moves the smaller metal part along the 2 rods. The 2 rods should just push out and locked with grub screws, so in theory tapping at the green arrows should push out the 2 metal slides. I dont want to thump too hard in case I break it. |
Free rusted metal
ss wrote:
https://imgur.com/47180QO From the picture (and not being wholly familiar with lathe mechanics) I'm not quite clear what's supposed to slide on what. I *looks* as if the threaded screw is meant to rotate and move the lump of metal with a groove in it across the other U-section larger piece of metal. Given that I'm not quite clear why tapping at the green arrow points would help, especially the ones on the LHS. The harder I look the less I'm clear about what's meant to slide! :-) However, one thing that's worth trying (it's often worked for me) is to hit the seized joint so that you squeeze it, preferably with a heavy block or bigger hammer on the opposite side to increase the effect of the hitting. The threaded screw turns and moves the smaller metal part along the 2 rods. The 2 rods should just push out and locked with grub screws, so in theory tapping at the green arrows should push out the 2 metal slides. I dont want to thump too hard in case I break it. Ah, so not only should the bit with a groove move across the other but the two rods shpuld be possible to extract. My suggestion still stands, put something large and heavey underneath and bang the top with a hammer. No risk of breaking anything and it might do the trick. -- Chris Green · |
Free rusted metal
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Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 14:45, ss wrote:
https://imgur.com/47180QO Â*From the picture (and not being wholly familiar with lathe mechanics) I'm not quite clear what's supposed to slide on what. I *looks* as if the threaded screw is meant to rotate and move the lump of metal with a groove in it across the other U-section larger piece of metal.Â* Given that I'm not quite clear why tapping at the green arrow points would help, especially the ones on the LHS. The harder I look the less I'm clear about what's meant to slide! :-) However, one thing that's worth trying (it's often worked for me) is to hit the seized joint so that you squeeze it, preferably with a heavy block or bigger hammer on the opposite side to increase the effect of the hitting. The threaded screw turns and moves the smaller metal part along the 2 rods. The 2 rods should just push out and locked with grub screws, so in theory tapping at the green arrows should push out the 2 metal slides. I dont want to thump too hard in case I break it. I think I would immerse it in diesel for a week. Are the grub screws out? If so, relatively light tapping should then move the rods with much less force than it would take to break the casting. |
Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 16:34, newshound wrote:
I think I would immerse it in diesel for a week. Are the grub screws out? If so, relatively light tapping should then move the rods with much less force than it would take to break the casting. The grub screws are out, I have hit it quite hard, I believe the part has been sitting in a shed for a few years unused. |
Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 16:34, newshound wrote:
I think I would immerse it in diesel for a week. Are the grub screws out? If so, relatively light tapping should then move the rods with much less force than it would take to break the casting. +1 for not using WD40. One other trick I've seen used on TV is to heat a thicker oil before immersing the item. -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Free rusted metal
That is right, wd stands for water dispersion as far as I am aware, and
hence is supposed to actually stop water attacking the metal, its a bit late after the event. In my experience wd 40 also degreases as well which is not good in the long term, but might dislodge gunked up bits, though not rusty ones. Brian -- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Chris Green" wrote in message ... ss wrote: Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. WD40 isn't necessarily the best thing for freeing rusted joints, 'proper' penetrating oil such as Plus-Gas may do better and/or other even more specialised formulae. -- Chris Green · |
Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 18:49, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
I wonder if some kind of reverse electrolysis is possible? The problem is though, even if you get it all to move, how much damage has been done to the surfaces and hence any kind of precision movement. With cast stuff like that, usually surprisingly little. I have watched the like of Keith Rucker restoring some old machine where you think that a part is rusted beyond saving, and yet a good soak in evaporust seems to have it back in a surprisingly good condition. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Free rusted metal
Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote
I wonder if some kind of reverse electrolysis is possible? No its not. It can stop corrosion happening in the first place in some situations but cant remove the rust once its happened. The problem is though, even if you get it all to move, how much damage has been done to the surfaces and hence any kind of precision movement. True. "John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... On 29/08/2020 12:20, ss wrote: Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Hot air *might* work - but it will not tend to give the thermal shock you get from a blow torch or similar. (ideally you want bits to expand / contract bits of it at different rates to force some movement in the rusted contact surfaces) Any other ideas? The yanks seem to get good results with Evapo-rust leaving it soaking for a day or more. |
Free rusted metal
On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 18:49:06 +0100
"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: I wonder if some kind of reverse electrolysis is possible? The term you're looking for is electroplating - doing it well is not simple. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/ |
Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 16:34, newshound wrote:
I think I would immerse it in diesel for a week. Are the grub screws out? If so, relatively light tapping should then move the rods with much less force than it would take to break the casting. Two minutes before posting this I was watching a repeat of the "Repair Shop". As others have suggested an overnight soak in Auto (Gearbox) Transmission Fluid/Oil and an Acetone mix to remove rust and free up a mechanism. -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 21:29, alan_m wrote:
On 29/08/2020 16:34, newshound wrote: I think I would immerse it in diesel for a week. Are the grub screws out? If so, relatively light tapping should then move the rods with much less force than it would take to break the casting. Two minutes before posting this I was watching a repeat of the "Repair Shop". As others have suggested an overnight soak in Auto (Gearbox) Transmission Fluid/Oil and an Acetone mix to remove rust and free up a mechanism. Yes, that is one of the classic mixes, but we don't all have ATF and acetone to hand. Acetone helps by mopping up any free water, as well as by thinning the mix. Good old Plus Gas contains some anti-rust agents, I believe. Simmering it gently in engine oil is another option. When you have deep close fitting parts like the rods it takes time for capilliary action to get lubricant all the way in. Unless it is actually urgent to get it apart I'd go low tech long time. |
Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 12:20:12, ss wrote:
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Any other ideas? https://imgur.com/47180QO If you have managed to get oil in any gap don't heat it up too much to carbonise the oil. On the occasions when things were tight all it did was seize things up even more. Does the threaded portion rotate? The prominent part seems to have a left hand thread. Is the other part a right hand thread? |
Free rusted metal
On Saturday, August 29, 2020 at 12:20:15 PM UTC+1, ss wrote:
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Any other ideas? https://imgur.com/47180QO It's the temperature/expansion difference that will free it off. You need the application of strong heat to the circumferential parts. If the whole thing is warmed, there's no expansion difference so it's less likely to work. So you want something like a gas torch applied to the bit that needs to be made bigger. |
Free rusted metal
On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 16:51:51 +0100, alan_m wrote:
On 29/08/2020 16:34, newshound wrote: I think I would immerse it in diesel for a week. Are the grub screws out? If so, relatively light tapping should then move the rods with much less force than it would take to break the casting. +1 for not using WD40. One other trick I've seen used on TV is to heat a thicker oil before immersing the item. Perhaps immersing it in oil, heating up to about 150C (don't set fire to the oil!) for a while then letting it cool might force in oil. If that doesn't work then try immersing just the (cold) main lump in hot oil so that there's differential expansion. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
Free rusted metal
On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 14:45:45 +0100, ss wrote:
The threaded screw turns and moves the smaller metal part along the 2 rods. The 2 rods should just push out and locked with grub screws, so in theory tapping at the green arrows should push out the 2 metal slides. Well the arrow heads aren't on the ends of the rods... WD40 isn't very good, Plusgas is in a different league. Squirt all the joints with Plusgas and go a way for a day or two (or diesel or ATF). Then tap the rods alternatly and from either end with something that ensures all the impact hits the rod only. Thinking that you may be able to free up the much smaller areas between rods and main casting than the rods and cross slide. What would drive the main screw? Can you get at that and perhaps free that off an use it to stress either it to rods joint or rods to main casting by jaming it somehow? -- Cheers Dave. |
Free rusted metal
On 30/08/2020 07:46, harry wrote:
It's the temperature/expansion difference that will free it off. You need the application of strong heat to the circumferential parts. If the whole thing is warmed, there's no expansion difference so it's less likely to work. So you want something like a gas torch applied to the bit that needs to be made bigger. Now sorted, many hundreds of taps with a hammer, WD40, oil, wooden wedges, clamps, vice, heat gun....but got there in the end. Just one more piece to free, the jaws on the chuck (image 2) https://imgur.com/X7wWRFd https://imgur.com/X7wWRFd |
Free rusted metal
On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 16:34:07 +0100, newshound
wrote: I think I would immerse it in diesel for a week. Are the grub screws out? They're called *gib screws* IIRC. They bear against a shim located against one of the V grooves to help eliminate lateral movement/backlash in the cross slide. |
Free rusted metal
On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 21:26:52 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
wrote: On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 18:49:06 +0100 "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: I wonder if some kind of reverse electrolysis is possible? The term you're looking for is electroplating - doing it well is not simple. While electroplating is a black art, "electrolytic rust removal" isn't. Gives excellent results, pretty simple, doesn't break anything* -- but it will not remove rust in inaccessible spots, the current has to "see" the surface... Thomas Prufer * unless an electrode containing chrome is used: this can create carcinogenic chrome salts. |
Free rusted metal
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 06:19:30 +1000, "Rod Speed" wrote:
Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote I wonder if some kind of reverse electrolysis is possible? No its not. It can stop corrosion happening in the first place in some situations but cant remove the rust once its happened. Wrong: it is called "electrolytic rust removal" for a reason. Thomas Prufer |
Free rusted metal
On 29/8/20 9:20 pm, ss wrote:
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Any other ideas? https://imgur.com/47180QO Soak it in molasses water mix,look it up in google |
Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 12:20, ss wrote:
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Any other ideas? https://imgur.com/47180QO Leave it to soak in a can of diesel for a week. Mike |
Free rusted metal
On Saturday, 29 August 2020 22:16:20 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 29/08/2020 21:29, alan_m wrote: On 29/08/2020 16:34, newshound wrote: I think I would immerse it in diesel for a week. Are the grub screws out? If so, relatively light tapping should then move the rods with much less force than it would take to break the casting. Two minutes before posting this I was watching a repeat of the "Repair Shop". As others have suggested an overnight soak in Auto (Gearbox) Transmission Fluid/Oil and an Acetone mix to remove rust and free up a mechanism. Yes, that is one of the classic mixes, but we don't all have ATF and acetone to hand. Acetone helps by mopping up any free water, as well as by thinning the mix. ATF alone also works, just penetrates slower. ATF is something nearly every diyer should have in stock. If not, any car accessory shop has it. A single bottle will pay back its cost many times over by fixing seized things. NT |
Free rusted metal
In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes That is right, wd stands for water dispersion as far as I am aware, and hence is supposed to actually stop water attacking the metal, its a bit late after the event. In my experience wd 40 also degreases as well which is not good in the long term, but might dislodge gunked up bits, though not rusty ones. Brian Although 'WD' does indeed stand for 'water dispersion', it does about ten additional things. It might not do them as well as something specifically designed to do some of these things, but it does do them. -- Ian |
Free rusted metal
On Saturday, 12 September 2020 08:26:00 UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)" writes That is right, wd stands for water dispersion as far as I am aware, and hence is supposed to actually stop water attacking the metal, its a bit late after the event. In my experience wd 40 also degreases as well which is not good in the long term, but might dislodge gunked up bits, though not rusty ones. Brian Although 'WD' does indeed stand for 'water dispersion', it does about ten additional things. It might not do them as well as something specifically designed to do some of these things, but it does do them. poorly and overpricedly at best. |
Free rusted metal
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Free rusted metal
On 29/08/2020 12:20, ss wrote:
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Any other ideas? https://imgur.com/47180QO Try PlusGas before anything more drastic. |
Free rusted metal
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Free rusted metal
ss wrote:
Image below is the cross drive for a mini lathe. It is rusted solid. I have soaked in WD40 for a couple of days and still stuck. The arrows in green are points I can tap with hammer but dare not hit too hard in case the `lug` breaks off. Never used heat before on rusted items but would `hot air` paint stripper gun work? I am not too bothered re the paintwork as I will be repainting the main body before I re assemble the lathe. Any other ideas? https://imgur.com/47180QO You could try soaking it in vinegar. Ive used it a few times on things which were €˜do or dump €˜ and generally found it works. |
Free rusted metal
On 13/09/2020 22:32, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:41:23 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Saturday, 12 September 2020 08:26:00 UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote: Although 'WD' does indeed stand for 'water dispersion', it does about ten additional things. It might not do them as well as something specifically designed to do some of these things, but it does do them. poorly and overpricedly at best. Indeed. The only thing it really excels at is as a cutting fluid for turning aluminium on a lathe. It seem fashionable to moan about WD40, and yet I suspect we all keep cans of it about. Yes there are things that will do each job better, but often you just need good enough. (also worth remembering that these days the name represents a range of products, including things like a spray white lithium grease, penetrant, PTFE lubricant, silicone grease etc) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Free rusted metal
On Monday, 14 September 2020 00:27:51 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/09/2020 22:32, Cursitor Doom wrote: On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:41:23 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 12 September 2020 08:26:00 UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote: Although 'WD' does indeed stand for 'water dispersion', it does about ten additional things. It might not do them as well as something specifically designed to do some of these things, but it does do them.. poorly and overpricedly at best. Indeed. The only thing it really excels at is as a cutting fluid for turning aluminium on a lathe. It seem fashionable to moan about WD40, and yet I suspect we all keep cans of it about. Yes there are things that will do each job better, but often you just need good enough. (also worth remembering that these days the name represents a range of products, including things like a spray white lithium grease, penetrant, PTFE lubricant, silicone grease etc) It's more fashionable to say it's great. The idea that it has numerous uses has really caught on. Trouble is it fails so much of the time. People seem to have unrealistic expectations of what is a poor product outside of its original purpose of water displacement from vehicle ignition systems. If you only ever buy one liquid product for diy jobs, make it oil. Oils can lubricate, free up rust to a varying extent, prevent rust etc. Baby oil is typically cheapest, ATF is generally best. I'm saying nothing about the ethics of baby oil! NT |
Free rusted metal
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