Kingsman or Celutex
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?
Richard |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard it is just a case of whichever you can get at the best price. No need for the battens either - just wedge the sheets in place and use expanding foam to fix and fill any gaps. Remember to foil tape over the joists as well.. -- Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:20:32 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. The insulation is very light and when cut to be an interference fit all the battens are for doing is acting as a stop. 20 x 6 lath will do that and be easier to fix. I'm assuming that the crawl space under the joists is not big enough to squeeze through to shove errant sections of insulation back up. Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. -- Cheers Dave. |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard whatever brand you find in the nearest skip. |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 10:26, Dave Liquorice wrote:
snip Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. That's one thing battens can help with. See e.g. https://www.kingspan.com/gb/en-gb/pr...timber-floor-a To make sure the insulation boards are flush with the top surface of the joists, they should be supported on minimum 25 mm x 25 mm treated softwood timber battens, proprietary galvanised steel saddle clips, or galvanised nails partially driven into the side of the joists. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? With the caveat that kingspan as a brand covers things like expanded polystyrene insulation as well as the foiled polyisocyanurate foam as well, so make sure you are comparing like with like. (The PIR foam is a better insulator and typically foil faced. Its also quite a bit more rigid and easier to work with). -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Kingsman or Celutex
Tricky Dicky Wrote in message:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard the latter, but learn how they're spelt & pronounced before you start ring around... -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:
Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. 25x25 batten at the bottom and sides of the joists wouldn't be too tricky to fit. I'd use a jig to set the postion though not rely on the joists and/or insulation actually being the dimensions they proport to be. -- Cheers Dave. |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote: Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. Well yes it *is*, actually. If there is any exposed joist, that is *precisely* where condensation will happen. The foil doesn't just seal, it is impermeable as well. You MUST ensure that the no-longer-ventilated cold joists are taped over. It so happens that is simpler if the insulation is flush with the joist tops. Underfloor ventilation in an insulated scenario has no purpose: You wont get condensation where its warm. 25x25 batten at the bottom and sides of the joists wouldn't be too tricky to fit. I'd use a jig to set the position though not and rely on the joists and/or insulation actually being the dimensions they purport to be. Make up battens with slotted holes so you can get the batten the depth of the insulation below the joist top, then screw in more screws to stabilise. Insulate, foam in any air gaps, and tape over. -- "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them." |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:20:32 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote: . I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Either, or similar such as Xtratherm or Ecotherm. See https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/ for a cheap supplier as long as you are using quite a lot. Small amounts only make sense if collecting from Presteigne in Powys or Stirling. |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? I can't recall if you've mentioned the age of the house but I forgot to mention last time that retrofitting insulation to older houses can lead to rot from loss of ventilation. Eg if you have joist ends built into solid external walls without proper damp courses the underfloor insulation /might/ tilt the balance. Knowing just when it will or won't is beyond me. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote: Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. You may be able to achieve perfection but it is rarely within my grasp :( Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and movement over the years. But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that manufacturers et al have bought into. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Kingsman or Celutex
Are they flammable at all?
Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Tricky Dicky" wrote in message ... As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard An important thing to remember is not to "insulate" any wiring that carries significant current. (Ring main, cooker, immersion heater etc.) You might have to move it. Wiring can overheat, especially in a loft where the ambient temperature can get quite high. |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard Burn test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opn7A4BN4OE |
Kingsman or Celutex
In message , Robin
writes On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote: Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. You may be able to achieve perfection but it is rarely within my grasp :( Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and movement over the years. But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that manufacturers et al have bought into. Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-( -- Tim Lamb |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Friday, 31 July 2020 16:20:16 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote: As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? I can't recall if you've mentioned the age of the house but I forgot to mention last time that retrofitting insulation to older houses can lead to rot from loss of ventilation. Eg if you have joist ends built into solid external walls without proper damp courses the underfloor insulation /might/ tilt the balance. Knowing just when it will or won't is beyond me. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid The house was built in 1975 with cavity walls already insulated with blown fibre. Joists only stretch between the inner walls. Richard |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Friday, 31 July 2020 16:54:37 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote: As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard An important thing to remember is not to "insulate" any wiring that carries significant current. (Ring main, cooker, immersion heater etc.) You might have to move it. Wiring can overheat, especially in a loft where the ambient temperature can get quite high. Wiring and pipework will only pass through the thickness of the foam as it disappears under the floor so should not pose too much of a problem unlike a loft where whole lengths could be buried under insulation. In my loft all wiring is secured above the insulation. Richard |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin writes On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote: Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. Â*But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. You may be able to achieve perfection but itÂ* is rarely within my grasp :( Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and movement over the years. But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that manufacturers et al have bought into. Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-( then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them reliably...another one that's beyond me -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote:
On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Robin writes On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote: Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. Â*But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. You may be able to achieve perfection but itÂ* is rarely within my grasp :( Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and movement over the years. But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that manufacturers et al have bought into. Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-( then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them reliably...another one that's beyond me It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation to another. -- €śPuritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.€ť H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy |
Kingsman or Celutex
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote: On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Robin writes On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote: Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. You may be able to achieve perfection but it is rarely within my grasp :( Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and movement over the years. But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that manufacturers et al have bought into. Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-( then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them reliably...another one that's beyond me It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation to another. Oh dear... You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly *between* joists? Riiiggghhhttt... -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Kingsman or Celutex
In message , Jimk
writes The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message: On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote: On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Robin writes On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote: Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. You may be able to achieve perfection but it is rarely within my grasp :( Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and movement over the years. But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that manufacturers et al have bought into. Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-( then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them reliably...another one that's beyond me It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation to another. Oh dear... You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly *between* joists? Riiiggghhhttt... Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw. -- Tim Lamb |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 09:19:40 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:
You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly *between* joists? Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw. Power tool to cut celotex type rigid foam board? Seems a bit OTT. A hand saw will do it but generate a lot of bits that'll be great fun with any static electricity (but probably not as fun as the bits from expanded polystyrene). Deep score with a stanley knife 'n snap works for 25 mm not tried that on thicker boards. For thicker borads I'd try a scallop bladed knife, possibly with some thin wedges to keep the cut open. -- Cheers Dave. |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 01/08/2020 09:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 09:19:40 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote: You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly *between* joists? Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw. Power tool to cut celotex type rigid foam board? Seems a bit OTT. A hand saw will do it but generate a lot of bits that'll be great fun with any static electricity (but probably not as fun as the bits from expanded polystyrene). Deep score with a stanley knife 'n snap works for 25 mm not tried that on thicker boards. For thicker borads I'd try a scallop bladed knife, possibly with some thin wedges to keep the cut open. I found that slow with 75mm boards Anyone tried a 100mm blade in a multi tool? https://www.toolstation.com/smart-tr...n-blade/p62092 -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 08:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote: As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard it is just a case of whichever you can get at the best price. No need for the battens either - just wedge the sheets in place and use expanding foam to fix and fill any gaps. Remember to foil tape over the joists as well.. I used Quinntherm in 70mm thickness because they all seemed to have a consistent thickness, essential if you have a floating floor. The sheets of Celotex in Wickes had a slight undulating thickness. |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 14:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Underfloor ventilation in an insulated scenario has no purpose: You wont get condensation where its warm. Nonsense. The void below the insulation and flooring joists still needs to be ventilated. There must be no gap(s) between the insulation and the floor. |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 01/08/2020 09:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jimk writes The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message: On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote: On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Robin writes On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote: Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. Â*But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. You may be able to achieve perfection but itÂ* is rarely within my grasp :( Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and movement over the years. But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that manufacturers et al have bought into. Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-( then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them reliably...another one that's beyond me It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation to another. Oh dear... You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly *between* joists? Riiiggghhhttt... Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw. Which will shower you with PIR dust !!!. Bosch make a special 4 inch cutting blade with a smooth knife edge that fits any compatible jig saw. Or sharpen the back of a hacksaw blade into a knife, stick a handle on one end and cut them carefully. Lay some fine guage chicken netting over the joints and loop down so that the PIR board is held tighly up against the flooring. |
Kingsman or Celutex
Dave Liquorice wrote:
A hand saw will do it but generate a lot of bits that'll be great fun with any static electricity (but probably not as fun as the bits from expanded polystyrene). Deep score with a stanley knife 'n snap works for 25 mm not tried that on thicker boards. For thicker borads I'd try a scallop bladed knife, possibly with some thin wedges to keep the cut open. I read that score'n'snap may not give a straight edge on thicker boards. So you would likely have gaps where the insulation is thinner, and harder to butt pieces together or have a tight fit against joists. You can get special insulation hand saws: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-PC-22.../dp/B003Y3SJMG For power tools there's this sort of thing, but it ain't cheap: https://www.festool.co.uk/products/s...5,2-eb-plus-gb If you have a big job to do, I wonder if they might be hired? Theo |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 01/08/2020 10:12, Robin wrote:
On 01/08/2020 09:47, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 09:19:40 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote: You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly *between* joists? Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw. Power tool to cut celotex type rigid foam board? Seems a bit OTT. A hand saw will do it but generate a lot of bits that'll be great fun with any static electricity (but probably not as fun as the bits from expanded polystyrene). Deep score with a stanley knife 'n snap works for 25 mm not tried that on thicker boards. For thicker borads I'd try a scallop bladed knife, possibly with some thin wedges to keep the cut open. I found that slow with 75mm boards Anyone tried a 100mm blade in a multi tool? https://www.toolstation.com/smart-tr...n-blade/p62092 I used these https://shop.bosch-professional.com/...lades--2592808 They were a lot cheaper when I bought mine (usual pack of 4) |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 20:57, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 16:20:16 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote: As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? I can't recall if you've mentioned the age of the house but I forgot to mention last time that retrofitting insulation to older houses can lead to rot from loss of ventilation. Eg if you have joist ends built into solid external walls without proper damp courses the underfloor insulation /might/ tilt the balance. Knowing just when it will or won't is beyond me. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid The house was built in 1975 with cavity walls already insulated with blown fibre. Joists only stretch between the inner walls. Richard Strange. Most new houses of that era had solid ground floors. |
Kingsman or Celutex
Only if the temperature is over 1000C, as in Grenfell
when covered in aluminium/plastic/aluminium cladding. Under a floor or protected by plasterboard and they are fine. Andrew On 31/07/2020 16:39, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote: Are they flammable at all? Brian |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 01/08/2020 09:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jimk writes The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message: On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote: On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Robin writes On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote: Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might be a challenge. It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists - AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should there be any leakage up the sides of the joists. Â*But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation wouldn't be a problem. You may be able to achieve perfection but itÂ* is rarely within my grasp :( Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and movement over the years. But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that manufacturers et al have bought into. Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-( then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them reliably...another one that's beyond me It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation to another. Oh dear... You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly *between* joists? Riiiggghhhttt... Yes. panels between woodwork, foil tape over the top of it all. Its just to stop vapour getting to cold joists, that's all Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw. almost anything if you fill any gaps with expanding foam :-) -- €śwhen things get difficult you just have to lie€ť €• Jean Claud JĂĽncker |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 1 Aug 2020 at 09:19:40 BST, "Tim Lamb"
wrote: In message , Jimk writes snip Oh dear... You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly *between* joists? Riiiggghhhttt... Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw. Far and away the easiest I've found is an old (but still sharp) non-serrated kitchen knife, 9" or so blade. Makes a neat job of anything up to 50mm (at least - that's the thickest I've tried). -- Cheers, Rob |
Kingsman or Celutex
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard After a bit of research Celotex( note correct spelling) is out with a P/A ratio of 0.7 and a resultant maximum U-value of 0.24 to comply with Part L, the only products they had were 100mm and 110mm thick and would cause some difficulties since my joists are 4" deep. So it's Kingspan, again two products Kooltherm 103 which I would need a 90mm thickness or the higher performing Thermafloor T70 where a 75mm thickness will give me a u-value of 0.22. Using the T70 allows me to use my preferred method of supporting the panels using 25X25 battens. Now just need to phone around and get some prices. I have tried to get some online but most of the insulation stockists seem to want you to send in your quote and then give a price plus you can only buy them in batches usually 3 or 4 boards and of course Sods Law I only need 3. Might try a few local builders merchants who I have seen stocking foam insulation but suspect they may not have extensive varieties so it will be pot luck. Anyway just thought I would pass on my findings for anyone else contemplating doing the same. Richard |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 04/08/2020 16:23, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote: As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard After a bit of research Celotex( note correct spelling) is out with a P/A ratio of 0.7 and a resultant maximum U-value of 0.24 to comply with Part L, the only products they had were 100mm and 110mm thick and would cause some difficulties since my joists are 4" deep. So it's Kingspan, again two products Kooltherm 103 which I would need a 90mm thickness or the higher performing Thermafloor T70 where a 75mm thickness will give me a u-value of 0.22. Using the T70 allows me to use my preferred method of supporting the panels using 25X25 battens. Now just need to phone around and get some prices. I have tried to get some online but most of the insulation stockists seem to want you to send in your quote and then give a price plus you can only buy them in batches usually 3 or 4 boards and of course Sods Law I only need 3. Might try a few local builders merchants who I have seen stocking foam insulation but suspect they may not have extensive varieties so it will be pot luck. Anyway just thought I would pass on my findings for anyone else contemplating doing the same. Richard Quinntherm comes in 70mm thickness which was ideal for my insulated solid floor after removing the screed and screwing 3x3 battens onto the slab. |
Kingsman or Celutex
In message ,
Tricky Dicky writes On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote: As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard After a bit of research Celotex( note correct spelling) is out with a P/A ratio of 0.7 and a resultant maximum U-value of 0.24 to comply with Part L, the only products they had were 100mm and 110mm thick and would cause some difficulties since my joists are 4" deep. So it's Kingspan, again two products Kooltherm 103 which I would need a 90mm thickness or the higher performing Thermafloor T70 where a 75mm thickness will give me a u-value of 0.22. Using the T70 allows me to use my preferred method of supporting the panels using 25X25 battens. Back to my circular saw proposal. Having produced your 400/600mm wide slabs, you could easily rebate the sides to accept your battens and use what I suspect will be much cheaper and more available Kingspan/Celotex. Now we are all used to wearing face masks, you can do the job on the lawn:-) Now just need to phone around and get some prices. I have tried to get some online but most of the insulation stockists seem to want you to send in your quote and then give a price plus you can only buy them in batches usually 3 or 4 boards and of course Sods Law I only need 3. Might try a few local builders merchants who I have seen stocking foam insulation but suspect they may not have extensive varieties so it will be pot luck. Anyway just thought I would pass on my findings for anyone else contemplating doing the same. Richard -- Tim Lamb |
Kingsman or Celutex
Tricky Dicky Wrote in message:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote: As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price? Richard After a bit of research Celotex( note correct spelling) is out with a P/A ratio of 0.7 and a resultant maximum U-value of 0.24 to comply with Part L, the only products they had were 100mm and 110mm thick and would cause some difficulties since my joists are 4" deep. So it's Kingspan, again two products Kooltherm 103 which I would need a 90mm thickness or the higher performing Thermafloor T70 where a 75mm thickness will give me a u-value of 0.22. Using the T70 allows me to use my preferred method of supporting the panels using 25X25 battens. Now just need to phone around and get some prices. I have tried to get some online but most of the insulation stockists seem to want you to send in your quote and then give a price plus you can only buy them in batches usually 3 or 4 boards and of course Sods Law I only need 3. Might try a few local builders merchants who I have seen stocking foam insulation but suspect they may not have extensive varieties so it will be pot luck. Anyway just thought I would pass on my findings for anyone else contemplating doing the same. Richard Who'll be inspecting to see if it conforms to part L? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Kingsman or Celutex
On 31/07/2020 16:39, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Are they flammable at all? They will burn in high enough heat, although they should not sustain a flame on their own. One of the risks in rooms that are fully insulated, it that they can reach a combustible temperature much more quickly than an uninsulated room. So a small fire can spread to spontaneous ignition of other things in the room quite quickly. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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