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As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard
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On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the
floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am
looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and
dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice
regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case
of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


it is just a case of whichever you can get at the best price.

No need for the battens either - just wedge the sheets in place and use
expanding foam to fix and fill any gaps. Remember to foil tape over the
joists as well..

--
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gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

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On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:20:32 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky wrote:

As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor
which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking
at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm
foam insulation in between the joists.


The insulation is very light and when cut to be an interference fit
all the battens are for doing is acting as a stop. 20 x 6 lath will
do that and be easier to fix. I'm assuming that the crawl space under
the joists is not big enough to squeeze through to shove errant
sections of insulation back up.

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might
be a challenge.

--
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On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


whatever brand you find in the nearest skip.
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On 31/07/2020 10:26, Dave Liquorice wrote:
snip
Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint might
be a challenge.


It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.

That's one thing battens can help with.

See e.g.

https://www.kingspan.com/gb/en-gb/pr...timber-floor-a

To make sure the insulation boards are flush with the top surface of the
joists, they should be supported on minimum 25 mm x 25 mm treated
softwood timber battens, proprietary galvanised steel saddle clips, or
galvanised nails partially driven into the side of the joists.



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On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote:

As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the
floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am
looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and
dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice
regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case
of whichever I can get at the best price?


With the caveat that kingspan as a brand covers things like expanded
polystyrene insulation as well as the foiled polyisocyanurate foam as
well, so make sure you are comparing like with like.

(The PIR foam is a better insulator and typically foil faced. Its also
quite a bit more rigid and easier to work with).


--
Cheers,

John.

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Tricky Dicky Wrote in message:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


the latter, but learn how they're spelt & pronounced before you
start ring around...
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On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't

need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint

might
be a challenge.


It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.


But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.

25x25 batten at the bottom and sides of the joists wouldn't be too
tricky to fit. I'd use a jig to set the postion though not rely on
the joists and/or insulation actually being the dimensions they
proport to be.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't

need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint

might
be a challenge.


It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.


But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.


Well yes it *is*, actually. If there is any exposed joist, that is
*precisely* where condensation will happen. The foil doesn't just seal,
it is impermeable as well. You MUST ensure that the no-longer-ventilated
cold joists are taped over. It so happens that is simpler if the
insulation is flush with the joist tops.

Underfloor ventilation in an insulated scenario has no purpose: You wont
get condensation where its warm.

25x25 batten at the bottom and sides of the joists wouldn't be too
tricky to fit. I'd use a jig to set the position though not and rely on
the joists and/or insulation actually being the dimensions they
purport to be.


Make up battens with slotted holes so you can get the batten the depth
of the insulation below the joist top, then screw in more screws to
stabilise.

Insulate, foam in any air gaps, and tape over.


--
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let them."


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On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:20:32 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences
between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?



Either, or similar such as Xtratherm or Ecotherm. See
https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/ for a cheap supplier as long as you
are using quite a lot. Small amounts only make sense if collecting
from Presteigne in Powys or Stirling.


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On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?


I can't recall if you've mentioned the age of the house but I forgot to
mention last time that retrofitting insulation to older houses can lead
to rot from loss of ventilation. Eg if you have joist ends built into
solid external walls without proper damp courses the underfloor
insulation /might/ tilt the balance. Knowing just when it will or won't
is beyond me.


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On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't

need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint

might
be a challenge.


It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.


But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.


You may be able to achieve perfection but it is rarely within my grasp
Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and
movement over the years.

But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that
manufacturers et al have bought into.


--
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On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


An important thing to remember is not to "insulate" any wiring that carries significant current. (Ring main, cooker, immersion heater etc.) You might have to move it.

Wiring can overheat, especially in a loft where the ambient temperature can get quite high.


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On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


Burn test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opn7A4BN4OE


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In message , Robin
writes
On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't

need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint

might
be a challenge.

It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.

But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.


You may be able to achieve perfection but it is rarely within my grasp
Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and
movement over the years.

But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that
manufacturers et al have bought into.


Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent which
needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-(

--
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On Friday, 31 July 2020 16:20:16 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?


I can't recall if you've mentioned the age of the house but I forgot to
mention last time that retrofitting insulation to older houses can lead
to rot from loss of ventilation. Eg if you have joist ends built into
solid external walls without proper damp courses the underfloor
insulation /might/ tilt the balance. Knowing just when it will or won't
is beyond me.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


The house was built in 1975 with cavity walls already insulated with blown fibre. Joists only stretch between the inner walls.

Richard
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On Friday, 31 July 2020 16:54:37 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


An important thing to remember is not to "insulate" any wiring that carries significant current. (Ring main, cooker, immersion heater etc.) You might have to move it.

Wiring can overheat, especially in a loft where the ambient temperature can get quite high.


Wiring and pipework will only pass through the thickness of the foam as it disappears under the floor so should not pose too much of a problem unlike a loft where whole lengths could be buried under insulation. In my loft all wiring is secured above the insulation.

Richard
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On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't
need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint
might
be a challenge.

It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the
joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.
Â*But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.


You may be able to achieve perfection but itÂ* is rarely within my
grasp Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling and
movement over the years.

But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that
manufacturers et al have bought into.


Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent which
needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-(


then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them
reliably...another one that's beyond me

--
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On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote:
On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't
need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint
might
be a challenge.

It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the
joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.
Â*But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.

You may be able to achieve perfection but itÂ* is rarely within my
grasp Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling
and movement over the years.

But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that
manufacturers et al have bought into.


Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent
which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-(


then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them
reliably...another one that's beyond me

It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply
carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation
to another.


--
€œPuritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.€

H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy


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The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote:
On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't
need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint
might
be a challenge.

It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the
joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.
But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.

You may be able to achieve perfection but it is rarely within my
grasp Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling
and movement over the years.

But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that
manufacturers et al have bought into.

Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent
which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-(


then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them
reliably...another one that's beyond me

It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply
carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation
to another.



Oh dear...
You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly
*between* joists?
Riiiggghhhttt...
--
Jimk


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In message , Jimk
writes
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote:
On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't
need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint
might
be a challenge.

It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the
joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.
But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.

You may be able to achieve perfection but it is rarely within my
grasp Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling
and movement over the years.

But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that
manufacturers et al have bought into.

Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent
which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-(


then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them
reliably...another one that's beyond me

It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply
carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation
to another.



Oh dear...
You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly
*between* joists?
Riiiggghhhttt...


Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw.

--
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On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 09:19:40 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly
*between* joists?


Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw.


Power tool to cut celotex type rigid foam board? Seems a bit OTT.

A hand saw will do it but generate a lot of bits that'll be great fun
with any static electricity (but probably not as fun as the bits from
expanded polystyrene). Deep score with a stanley knife 'n snap works
for 25 mm not tried that on thicker boards. For thicker borads I'd
try a scallop bladed knife, possibly with some thin wedges to keep
the cut open.

--
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Dave.



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On 01/08/2020 09:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 09:19:40 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly
*between* joists?


Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw.


Power tool to cut celotex type rigid foam board? Seems a bit OTT.

A hand saw will do it but generate a lot of bits that'll be great fun
with any static electricity (but probably not as fun as the bits from
expanded polystyrene). Deep score with a stanley knife 'n snap works
for 25 mm not tried that on thicker boards. For thicker borads I'd
try a scallop bladed knife, possibly with some thin wedges to keep
the cut open.


I found that slow with 75mm boards

Anyone tried a 100mm blade in a multi tool?

https://www.toolstation.com/smart-tr...n-blade/p62092

--
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On 31/07/2020 08:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the
floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am
looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and
dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice
regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case
of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


it is just a case of whichever you can get at the best price.

No need for the battens either - just wedge the sheets in place and use
expanding foam to fix and fill any gaps. Remember to foil tape over the
joists as well..


I used Quinntherm in 70mm thickness because they all seemed to have
a consistent thickness, essential if you have a floating floor.
The sheets of Celotex in Wickes had a slight undulating thickness.


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On 31/07/2020 14:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Underfloor ventilation in an insulated scenario has no purpose: You wont
get condensation where its warm.


Nonsense. The void below the insulation and flooring joists still needs
to be ventilated.

There must be no gap(s) between the insulation and the floor.
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On 01/08/2020 09:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jimk
writes
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote:
On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't
need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint
might
be a challenge.

It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the
joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering
should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.
Â*But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.

You may be able to achieve perfection but itÂ* is rarely within my
grasp Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling
and movement over the years.

But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that
manufacturers et al have bought into.

Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent
which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-(


then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them
reliably...another one that's beyond me

It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply
carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation
to another.



Oh dear...
You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly
*between* joists?
Riiiggghhhttt...


Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw.


Which will shower you with PIR dust !!!.

Bosch make a special 4 inch cutting blade with a smooth knife
edge that fits any compatible jig saw.

Or sharpen the back of a hacksaw blade into a knife, stick a handle
on one end and cut them carefully.

Lay some fine guage chicken netting over the joints and loop
down so that the PIR board is held tighly up against the flooring.
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Dave Liquorice wrote:
A hand saw will do it but generate a lot of bits that'll be great fun
with any static electricity (but probably not as fun as the bits from
expanded polystyrene). Deep score with a stanley knife 'n snap works
for 25 mm not tried that on thicker boards. For thicker borads I'd
try a scallop bladed knife, possibly with some thin wedges to keep
the cut open.


I read that score'n'snap may not give a straight edge on thicker boards. So
you would likely have gaps where the insulation is thinner, and harder to
butt pieces together or have a tight fit against joists.

You can get special insulation hand saws:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-PC-22.../dp/B003Y3SJMG

For power tools there's this sort of thing, but it ain't cheap:
https://www.festool.co.uk/products/s...5,2-eb-plus-gb
If you have a big job to do, I wonder if they might be hired?

Theo
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On 01/08/2020 10:12, Robin wrote:
On 01/08/2020 09:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 09:19:40 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly
*between* joists?

Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw.


Power tool to cut celotex type rigid foam board? Seems a bit OTT.

A hand saw will do it but generate a lot of bits that'll be great fun
with any static electricity (but probably not as fun as the bits from
expanded polystyrene). Deep score with a stanley knife 'n snap works
for 25 mm not tried that on thicker boards. For thicker borads I'd
try a scallop bladed knife, possibly with some thin wedges to keep
the cut open.


I found that slow with 75mm boards

Anyone tried a 100mm blade in a multi tool?

https://www.toolstation.com/smart-tr...n-blade/p62092


I used these


https://shop.bosch-professional.com/...lades--2592808

They were a lot cheaper when I bought mine (usual pack of 4)
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On 31/07/2020 20:57, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 16:20:16 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 31/07/2020 08:20, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?


I can't recall if you've mentioned the age of the house but I forgot to
mention last time that retrofitting insulation to older houses can lead
to rot from loss of ventilation. Eg if you have joist ends built into
solid external walls without proper damp courses the underfloor
insulation /might/ tilt the balance. Knowing just when it will or won't
is beyond me.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


The house was built in 1975 with cavity walls already insulated with blown fibre. Joists only stretch between the inner walls.

Richard


Strange. Most new houses of that era had solid ground floors.



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Only if the temperature is over 1000C, as in Grenfell
when covered in aluminium/plastic/aluminium cladding.

Under a floor or protected by plasterboard and they are
fine.

Andrew

On 31/07/2020 16:39, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Are they flammable at all?
Brian



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On 01/08/2020 09:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jimk
writes
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 31/07/2020 21:34, Robin wrote:
On 31/07/2020 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
On 31/07/2020 13:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:15:20 +0100, Robin wrote:

Provided the boards are a tight fit with no big gaps they don't
need
to be foamed in, tapping will be fine. However as they are 25 mm
below the top of the joists taping the internal 90 degree joint
might
be a challenge.

It's recommended to have the insulation flush with the top of the
joists
- AIUI so as to minimise air movement under the floor covering
should
there be any leakage up the sides of the joists.
Â*But with the joints taped there can be no "leakage up the sides of
the joists". I did think about the gap betwixt insulation and
flooring and sort of decided that a bit of warm side ventilation
wouldn't be a problem.

You may be able to achieve perfection but itÂ* is rarely within my
grasp Especially perfection that has to survive thermal cycling
and movement over the years.

But I can't swear that flush fitting is not just a myth that
manufacturers et al have bought into.

Can't comment on foaming but Cellotex has a surface release agent
which needs to be cleaned off for reliable sealant tape fixing:-(


then there's how to clean the joists to get the tape to stick to them
reliably...another one that's beyond me

It is not necessary that the tape sticks to the joists. It is simply
carrying an impermeable layer from one sheet of foil-covered insulation
to another.



Oh dear...
You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly
*between* joists?
Riiiggghhhttt...



Yes.



panels between woodwork, foil tape over the top of it all. Its just to
stop vapour getting to cold joists, that's all


Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw.

almost anything if you fill any gaps with expanding foam :-)


--
€œwhen things get difficult you just have to lie€

€• Jean Claud Jüncker
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On 1 Aug 2020 at 09:19:40 BST, "Tim Lamb"
wrote:

In message , Jimk
writes

snip



Oh dear...
You mean the sheets that have been cut I to pieces to fit snugly
*between* joists?
Riiiggghhhttt...


Hand held or bench circular saw, then finish the cut with a hand saw.


Far and away the easiest I've found is an old (but still sharp) non-serrated
kitchen knife, 9" or so blade. Makes a neat job of anything up to 50mm (at
least - that's the thickest I've tried).

--
Cheers, Rob


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On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


After a bit of research Celotex( note correct spelling) is out with a P/A ratio of 0.7 and a resultant maximum U-value of 0.24 to comply with Part L, the only products they had were 100mm and 110mm thick and would cause some difficulties since my joists are 4" deep.

So it's Kingspan, again two products Kooltherm 103 which I would need a 90mm thickness or the higher performing Thermafloor T70 where a 75mm thickness will give me a u-value of 0.22. Using the T70 allows me to use my preferred method of supporting the panels using 25X25 battens.

Now just need to phone around and get some prices. I have tried to get some online but most of the insulation stockists seem to want you to send in your quote and then give a price plus you can only buy them in batches usually 3 or 4 boards and of course Sods Law I only need 3. Might try a few local builders merchants who I have seen stocking foam insulation but suspect they may not have extensive varieties so it will be pot luck. Anyway just thought I would pass on my findings for anyone else contemplating doing the same.

Richard
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On 04/08/2020 16:23, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


After a bit of research Celotex( note correct spelling) is out with a P/A ratio of 0.7 and a resultant maximum U-value of 0.24 to comply with Part L, the only products they had were 100mm and 110mm thick and would cause some difficulties since my joists are 4" deep.

So it's Kingspan, again two products Kooltherm 103 which I would need a 90mm thickness or the higher performing Thermafloor T70 where a 75mm thickness will give me a u-value of 0.22. Using the T70 allows me to use my preferred method of supporting the panels using 25X25 battens.

Now just need to phone around and get some prices. I have tried to get some online but most of the insulation stockists seem to want you to send in your quote and then give a price plus you can only buy them in batches usually 3 or 4 boards and of course Sods Law I only need 3. Might try a few local builders merchants who I have seen stocking foam insulation but suspect they may not have extensive varieties so it will be pot luck. Anyway just thought I would pass on my findings for anyone else contemplating doing the same.

Richard


Quinntherm comes in 70mm thickness which was ideal for my
insulated solid floor after removing the screed and
screwing 3x3 battens onto the slab.


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In message ,
Tricky Dicky writes
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the
floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am
looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and
dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice
regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case
of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


After a bit of research Celotex( note correct spelling) is out with a
P/A ratio of 0.7 and a resultant maximum U-value of 0.24 to comply with
Part L, the only products they had were 100mm and 110mm thick and would
cause some difficulties since my joists are 4" deep.

So it's Kingspan, again two products Kooltherm 103 which I would need a
90mm thickness or the higher performing Thermafloor T70 where a 75mm
thickness will give me a u-value of 0.22. Using the T70 allows me to
use my preferred method of supporting the panels using 25X25 battens.


Back to my circular saw proposal. Having produced your 400/600mm wide
slabs, you could easily rebate the sides to accept your battens and use
what I suspect will be much cheaper and more available Kingspan/Celotex.
Now we are all used to wearing face masks, you can do the job on the
lawn:-)

Now just need to phone around and get some prices. I have tried to get
some online but most of the insulation stockists seem to want you to
send in your quote and then give a price plus you can only buy them in
batches usually 3 or 4 boards and of course Sods Law I only need 3.
Might try a few local builders merchants who I have seen stocking foam
insulation but suspect they may not have extensive varieties so it will
be pot luck. Anyway just thought I would pass on my findings for anyone
else contemplating doing the same.

Richard


--
Tim Lamb
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Tricky Dicky Wrote in message:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 08:20:34 UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
As part of the kitchen refurbishment I am looking to insulate the floor which at present is a suspended T&G floor on 100mm joists. I am looking at fixing 25 X 25 battens to the bottom of the joists and dropping 75mm foam insulation in between the joists. Any advice regards preferences between Kingspan or Celutex or is it just a case of whichever I can get at the best price?

Richard


After a bit of research Celotex( note correct spelling) is out with a P/A ratio of 0.7 and a resultant maximum U-value of 0.24 to comply with Part L, the only products they had were 100mm and 110mm thick and would cause some difficulties since my joists are 4" deep.

So it's Kingspan, again two products Kooltherm 103 which I would need a 90mm thickness or the higher performing Thermafloor T70 where a 75mm thickness will give me a u-value of 0.22. Using the T70 allows me to use my preferred method of supporting the panels using 25X25 battens.

Now just need to phone around and get some prices. I have tried to get some online but most of the insulation stockists seem to want you to send in your quote and then give a price plus you can only buy them in batches usually 3 or 4 boards and of course Sods Law I only need 3. Might try a few local builders merchants who I have seen stocking foam insulation but suspect they may not have extensive varieties so it will be pot luck. Anyway just thought I would pass on my findings for anyone else contemplating doing the same.

Richard


Who'll be inspecting to see if it conforms to part L?
--
Jimk


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http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
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On 31/07/2020 16:39, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

Are they flammable at all?


They will burn in high enough heat, although they should not sustain a
flame on their own.

One of the risks in rooms that are fully insulated, it that they can
reach a combustible temperature much more quickly than an uninsulated
room. So a small fire can spread to spontaneous ignition of other things
in the room quite quickly.

--
Cheers,

John.

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