Having done some plumbing work in my bathroom over the weekend, I'm now
faced with a problem of confidence... how long should I give it before I can
be confident that I can go to work and not come home to a house full of
water? The stuff I did was a mixture of soldered joints (everywhere I could)
and compression fittings (for isolation valves, connection to existing pipe
which appeared to be a very slightly different diameter and in one place
where I thought waving a blowtorch around could result in setting my hair on
fire). Has anybody got any opinions on this?

It's really the compression fittings I'm unsure of - the soldered joints all
seem fine, a couple of the compression ones dripped slightly after turning
back on which in one case was solved by tightening it up (!) and the other
by taking it apart and bunging more jointing compound in there.

In a slightly separate issue, is it possible to use isolation valves to
reduce the flow of water to a fitting? All the taps in my bathroom come off
the rising main which results in a large imbalance between hot and cold
pressures - fine for the sink mixer but I had some problems with the old
bath mixer. If I can't do this with the isolation valve, is there anything
else I can use for this?

Thanks,
Jon

In message , Jon
writes
Having done some plumbing work in my bathroom over the weekend, I'm now
faced with a problem of confidence... how long should I give it before I can
be confident that I can go to work and not come home to a house full of
water? The stuff I did was a mixture of soldered joints (everywhere I could)
and compression fittings

Once it's done it's done. IF a significant problem was going to occur
it'd have happened by now.

It's really the compression fittings I'm unsure of - the soldered joints all
seem fine, a couple of the compression ones dripped slightly after turning
back on which in one case was solved by tightening it up (!) and the other
by taking it apart and bunging more jointing compound in there.


It's quite common for compression joints to weep slightly - a slight
tightening is fine - it's better than over tightening to start with.
They shouldn't need any jointing compound at all - the joint is made my
the olive compressing against the pipe and the fitting. If it needed
jointing compound then it probably means the olive/pip/fitting was
damaged in someway. but if it's fine now then I'd leave it alone.

In a slightly separate issue, is it possible to use isolation valves to
reduce the flow of water to a fitting?

Yes, I guess they can, but it's not what they are meant for.

All the taps in my bathroom come off
the rising main which results in a large imbalance between hot and cold
pressures - fine for the sink mixer but I had some problems with the old
bath mixer. If I can't do this with the isolation valve, is there anything
else I can use for this?

Of course reducing flow rate is not the same as reducing pressure,
reducing the flow may work enough - no harm in trying I guess. But a
better option would be a pressure reducing valve. -you fit it in the
pipe and adjust it to suit - they aren't expensive.

Alternatively replace the taps with ones that are designed for use on
supplies with different pressures - they are not true 'mixers' as the
ones you have now are, but keep the hot and cold separate up to the exit
of the tap.
--
Chris French, Leeds

Having done some plumbing work in my bathroom over the weekend, I'm now
faced with a problem of confidence... how long should I give it before I
can
be confident that I can go to work and not come home to a house full of
water? The stuff I did was a mixture of soldered joints (everywhere I
could)
and compression fittings (for isolation valves, connection to existing
pipe
which appeared to be a very slightly different diameter and in one place
where I thought waving a blowtorch around could result in setting my hair
on
fire). Has anybody got any opinions on this?

It's really the compression fittings I'm unsure of - the soldered joints
all
seem fine, a couple of the compression ones dripped slightly after turning
back on which in one case was solved by tightening it up (!) and the other
by taking it apart and bunging more jointing compound in there.

I know how you feel, I did a load of work yesterday in the kitchen ready for
a new sink and plumbed in an outside tap too. As you say the soldered joints
are nice and easy (although I did chicken out in the end and used solder
ring fittings ) but the 15mm compression joints are a bit of a pig. I was
familiar with 6mm comp before as I used to run a lot of that a few years ago
for instrumentation, but the 15mm ones are a lot harder to do up (I dread to
think what 22mm are like). So far I just have a couple of joints on the
valves that need nipping up but should be ok with a bit of luck.

As Chris said, anything major probably would have happened as soon as you
turned the water back on (and I guess mains pressure would test the joints
out quite well?).

In article ,
a wrote:

I know how you feel, I did a load of work yesterday in the kitchen ready for
a new sink and plumbed in an outside tap too. As you say the soldered joints
are nice and easy (although I did chicken out in the end and used solder
ring fittings ) but the 15mm compression joints are a bit of a pig. I was
familiar with 6mm comp before as I used to run a lot of that a few years ago
for instrumentation, but the 15mm ones are a lot harder to do up (I dread to
think what 22mm are like). So far I just have a couple of joints on the
valves that need nipping up but should be ok with a bit of luck.

Have just done a lot of work in my bathroom recently myself and so-far
all's well. I have a mix of soldered, compression (copper to chrome)
and some generic push-fit (change of plans and they were easier to get
hold of!) So-far so good. I did take care with pipe termination - used a
decent cutter, polished the ends with steel wool (even the compression &
push-fit ones) I used some PTFE on the end fittings (eg. flex hose to
bath taps and cistern inlet) , and I smeared a bit of high-tack silicone
on the ends of the pipes going into the push-fit stuff. (as well as the
ends of the push-fit 40mm waste pipes!)

I have a mix of 15mm and 22mm. I temporarily capped the 22m with
compression fittings at one point without any issues.

As Chris said, anything major probably would have happened as soon as you
turned the water back on (and I guess mains pressure would test the joints
out quite well?).

I did my kitchen last year - that was on mains pressure (bathroom is
gravity feed, but will be pumped soon) My mains pressure is about 8 bar...

At some point, you just have to accept "thats it" and stop worrying. Last
nights bath was wonderful!


Gordon

"a" wrote in
. net:

I know how you feel, I did a load of work yesterday in the kitchen
ready for a new sink and plumbed in an outside tap too. As you say the
soldered joints are nice and easy (although I did chicken out in the
end and used solder ring fittings )

I used endfeed on my recent CH/DHW efforts (having used solder ring before,
annd found them easier. The only joint that failed was a Solder ring
reducer.

but the 15mm compression joints
are a bit of a pig. I was familiar with 6mm comp before as I used to
run a lot of that a few years ago for instrumentation, but the 15mm
ones are a lot harder to do up (I dread to think what 22mm are like).
So far I just have a couple of joints on the valves that need nipping
up but should be ok with a bit of luck.

With compression joints you need a pretty hefty spanner just to get on the
nut.

I just nip it up enough to hold the pipe on assembly, with a bit more for
luck, and tighten up a biy more when I turn on the water. Then I tighten up
any that are weeping until they stop.

Basically I've a phobia about overtightening, some of the joints I've taken
apart were really scary, big cinches in the pipe, new piping needed etc

mike

"Jon" wrote in message
...
Having done some plumbing work in my bathroom over the weekend, I'm now
faced with a problem of confidence... how long should I give it before I
can
be confident that I can go to work and not come home to a house full of
water? The stuff I did was a mixture of soldered joints (everywhere I
could)
and compression fittings (for isolation valves, connection to existing
pipe
which appeared to be a very slightly different diameter and in one place
where I thought waving a blowtorch around could result in setting my hair
on
fire). Has anybody got any opinions on this?

It's really the compression fittings I'm unsure of - the soldered joints
all
seem fine, a couple of the compression ones dripped slightly after turning
back on which in one case was solved by tightening it up (!) and the other
by taking it apart and bunging more jointing compound in there.

In a slightly separate issue, is it possible to use isolation valves to
reduce the flow of water to a fitting? All the taps in my bathroom come
off
the rising main which results in a large imbalance between hot and cold
pressures - fine for the sink mixer but I had some problems with the old
bath mixer. If I can't do this with the isolation valve, is there anything
else I can use for this?

Thanks,
Jon


================
Just one minor thing to watch. You said that one of the pipes seemed to be a
different size. You might have a mix of old 1/2" pipe with new 15mm pipe. If
the joint which required extra jointing compound begins to leak again do a
quick check on your pipe sizes and if necessary re-make the joint with the
correct size of olive.

Cic.

"a" wrote in message
. net...
Having done some plumbing work in my bathroom over the weekend, I'm now
faced with a problem of confidence... how long should I give it before I
can
be confident that I can go to work and not come home to a house full of
water? The stuff I did was a mixture of soldered joints (everywhere I
could)
and compression fittings (for isolation valves, connection to existing
pipe
which appeared to be a very slightly different diameter and in one place
where I thought waving a blowtorch around could result in setting my
hair
on
fire). Has anybody got any opinions on this?

It's really the compression fittings I'm unsure of - the soldered joints
all
seem fine, a couple of the compression ones dripped slightly after
turning
back on which in one case was solved by tightening it up (!) and the
other
by taking it apart and bunging more jointing compound in there.

I know how you feel, I did a load of work yesterday in the kitchen ready
for
a new sink and plumbed in an outside tap too. As you say the soldered
joints
are nice and easy (although I did chicken out in the end and used solder
ring fittings ) but the 15mm compression joints are a bit of a pig. I
was
familiar with 6mm comp before as I used to run a lot of that a few years
ago
for instrumentation, but the 15mm ones are a lot harder to do up (I dread
to
think what 22mm are like). So far I just have a couple of joints on the
valves that need nipping up but should be ok with a bit of luck.

As Chris said, anything major probably would have happened as soon as you
turned the water back on (and I guess mains pressure would test the joints
out quite well?).



In my limited experience (10-15 compression joints in an entire lifetime),
about 1/3 of them weep a bit
at first and most are cured by a further small tightening. After that, I
have never seen one suddenly explode or
for any weeping to get worse suddenly. The first ones I did, I was paranoid
about and turned off teh mains
before leaving the house for long so I sympathise :-).

Des

Hi,

Has anyone tried annealing the olive for a compression joint, to see
if it's less likely to leak?

cheers,
Pete.

Thanks for all the replies on this. Nothing has exploded yet, so I'm feeling
a bit more confident about the whole thing now.

The two compression joints that leaked slightly were both onto new pipework,
but one was just before a bend which may have had something to do with it,
and the other was onto one of those bendy copper pipes, the end of which
looked like it had been slightly deformed so it's probably lucky they only
leaked a bit!

Regards,
Jon

"Cicero" wrote in message
...

"Jon" wrote in message
...
Having done some plumbing work in my bathroom over the weekend, I'm now
faced with a problem of confidence... how long should I give it before I
can
be confident that I can go to work and not come home to a house full of
water? The stuff I did was a mixture of soldered joints (everywhere I
could)
and compression fittings (for isolation valves, connection to existing
pipe
which appeared to be a very slightly different diameter and in one place
where I thought waving a blowtorch around could result in setting my
hair
on
fire). Has anybody got any opinions on this?

It's really the compression fittings I'm unsure of - the soldered joints
all
seem fine, a couple of the compression ones dripped slightly after
turning
back on which in one case was solved by tightening it up (!) and the
other
by taking it apart and bunging more jointing compound in there.

In a slightly separate issue, is it possible to use isolation valves to
reduce the flow of water to a fitting? All the taps in my bathroom come
off
the rising main which results in a large imbalance between hot and cold
pressures - fine for the sink mixer but I had some problems with the old
bath mixer. If I can't do this with the isolation valve, is there
anything
else I can use for this?

Thanks,
Jon


================
Just one minor thing to watch. You said that one of the pipes seemed to be
a
different size. You might have a mix of old 1/2" pipe with new 15mm pipe.
If
the joint which required extra jointing compound begins to leak again do a
quick check on your pipe sizes and if necessary re-make the joint with the
correct size of olive.

Cic.

Don't worry about it.

I was dismantling some mains water 15mm some time back which had been
in place for over 30 years leak free. I pulled at one end of the pipe
and it came straight out of the solder fitting coupler!

On 1 Sep 2004 11:32:07 -0700, (StealthUK) strung
together this:

Don't worry about it.

I was dismantling some mains water 15mm some time back which had been
in place for over 30 years leak free. I pulled at one end of the pipe
and it came straight out of the solder fitting coupler!

Yep, I've done that before! Although I wasn't actually dismantling it
till it fell apart, one was a 15mm pipe in a cupboard, that had been
there for 30 odd years and just decided to leak when a piece of wood
near it was moved!
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

In message , Pete C
writes
Hi,

Has anyone tried annealing the olive for a compression joint, to see
if it's less likely to leak?

You really shouldn't need to if you make the joint correctly

--
geoff

In article , raden wrote:
In message , Pete C
writes
Hi,

Has anyone tried annealing the olive for a compression joint, to see
if it's less likely to leak?

You really shouldn't need to if you make the joint correctly

But it's a good idea if you're reusing olives.
I've anealed copper olives and reused them with good results
But it's a good idea if you're reusing olives.
I've annealed copper olives and reused them with good results
Some olives look like brass and I've never tried reusing them as I
don't know if you can anneal brass.

--
Jan

I was dismantling some mains water 15mm some time back which had been
in place for over 30 years leak free. I pulled at one end of the pipe
and it came straight out of the solder fitting coupler!

Yep, I've done that before! Although I wasn't actually dismantling it
till it fell apart, one was a 15mm pipe in a cupboard, that had been
there for 30 odd years and just decided to leak when a piece of wood
near it was moved!

strange things happen with pipes and water! Dont you just hate it when you
turn off the main valve, open the taps upstairs, carefully break the
connection downstairs and catch all the water - then a bit later someone
goes and flushes the toilet and all the water in the pipe to the toilet ball
valve comes rushing down out the pipe and all over the floor - grrr, never
seen that warning before!

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 22:18:48 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Pete C
writes
Hi,

Has anyone tried annealing the olive for a compression joint, to see
if it's less likely to leak?

You really shouldn't need to if you make the joint correctly

Hi,

What would that involve?

cheers,
Pete.

Pete C wrote in message ...
You really shouldn't need to if you make the joint correctly
What would that involve?
IME compression joints never leak if the connection is dead straight, and
always leak if it isn't. But that's the sum total of my plumbing knowledge.

In message , Pete C
writes
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 22:18:48 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Pete C
writes
Hi,

Has anyone tried annealing the olive for a compression joint, to see
if it's less likely to leak?

You really shouldn't need to if you make the joint correctly

Hi,

What would that involve?


1. Pipe ends cut neatly (preferable with a rotary cutter - you can get
them cheap), cleaned and deburred, not damaged or deformed etc.

2. Olives not damaged - I try not to reuse them (not just loosening a
joint - but removing and reusing) a new olive is a better idea..

3. Make sure pipe is seated right into fitting (and stays there), and
that it is straight not at an angle.

4. Don't over do the tightening, tighten nut by hand, the use a spanner,
I tighten with the spanner until you feel the joint start to 'bite',
then tighten it just a bit more- say 1/4 - 1/2 turn.

5. Turn on water, there maybe a bit of weeping, or dripping - if so,
just nip the joint up a bit say 1/8 - 1/4 turn that should sort it.


There is normally no need for jointing compound or PTFE tape.

If a joint did persistently leak I might try a smear on the olive
--
Chris French, Leeds

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:32:46 +0100, chris French
wrote:

Hi,

What would that involve?


1. Pipe ends cut neatly (preferable with a rotary cutter - you can get
them cheap), cleaned and deburred, not damaged or deformed etc.

2. Olives not damaged - I try not to reuse them (not just loosening a
joint - but removing and reusing) a new olive is a better idea..

3. Make sure pipe is seated right into fitting (and stays there), and
that it is straight not at an angle.

4. Don't over do the tightening, tighten nut by hand, the use a spanner,
I tighten with the spanner until you feel the joint start to 'bite',
then tighten it just a bit more- say 1/4 - 1/2 turn.

5. Turn on water, there maybe a bit of weeping, or dripping - if so,
just nip the joint up a bit say 1/8 - 1/4 turn that should sort it.

Thanks, sounds good...

There is normally no need for jointing compound or PTFE tape.

I'm not so brave, I'd reach for the Boss White to begin with, if the
joint was in a critical place.

cheers,
Pete.

In article ,
chris French wrote:
2. Olives not damaged - I try not to reuse them (not just loosening a
joint - but removing and reusing) a new olive is a better idea..

If you can remove an olive for re-use, the joint wasn't tightened properly.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Pete C wrote:
5. Turn on water, there maybe a bit of weeping, or dripping - if so,
just nip the joint up a bit say 1/8 - 1/4 turn that should sort it.

Thanks, sounds good...

There is normally no need for jointing compound or PTFE tape.

I'm not so brave, I'd reach for the Boss White to begin with, if the
joint was in a critical place.

Fernox do a tube of what smells like silicone sealer which is the dog's
dangly bits. Not cheap, though.

--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , chris French
writes
In message , Pete C
writes
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 22:18:48 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Pete C
writes
Hi,

Has anyone tried annealing the olive for a compression joint, to see
if it's less likely to leak?

You really shouldn't need to if you make the joint correctly

Hi,

What would that involve?


1. Pipe ends cut neatly (preferable with a rotary cutter - you can get
them cheap), cleaned and deburred, not damaged or deformed etc.

2. Olives not damaged - I try not to reuse them (not just loosening a
joint - but removing and reusing) a new olive is a better idea..

3. Make sure pipe is seated right into fitting (and stays there), and
that it is straight not at an angle.


I always push the pipe home and then back it off just a bit, otherwise
you can be tightening against the pipe rather than compressing the olive
into the pipe IYSWIM
--
geoff

In message , a
writes
I was dismantling some mains water 15mm some time back which had been
in place for over 30 years leak free. I pulled at one end of the pipe
and it came straight out of the solder fitting coupler!

Yep, I've done that before! Although I wasn't actually dismantling it
till it fell apart, one was a 15mm pipe in a cupboard, that had been
there for 30 odd years and just decided to leak when a piece of wood
near it was moved!

strange things happen with pipes and water! Dont you just hate it when you
turn off the main valve, open the taps upstairs, carefully break the
connection downstairs and catch all the water - then a bit later someone
goes and flushes the toilet and all the water in the pipe to the toilet ball
valve comes rushing down out the pipe and all over the floor - grrr, never
seen that warning before!

Or ... removing the trap under the sink, and then turning on the sink
tap to clean it out

DOH !!! - been there

--
geoff

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 20:59:29 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , chris French

I always push the pipe home and then back it off just a bit, otherwise
you can be tightening against the pipe rather than compressing the olive
into the pipe IYSWIM

Hi,

Good point, do you need to use PTFE or jointing compound at all?

cheers,
Pete.

In message , Pete C
writes
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 20:59:29 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , chris French

I always push the pipe home and then back it off just a bit, otherwise
you can be tightening against the pipe rather than compressing the olive
into the pipe IYSWIM

Hi,

Good point, do you need to use PTFE or jointing compound at all?

I've never used it on compression joints

--
geoff

Well, in a late follow up to my original post...

For various reasons, sink still isn't plumbed in. At the moment, I've just
got the pipework terminating in service valves (the ones with the little
balls in). Everything has been fine, no leaks anywhere.

Got up this morning to find a small puddle on the floor. Water was coming
out of the top of one of the service valves. I twiddled it slightly with the
screwdriver and it stopped. Not very happy with that, as I'm sure you can
imagine.

Has anyone encountered this spontaneous opening of a service valve before?
Needless to say I'm a bit scared by the whole thing and I've left the water
turned on today.

Maybe I should just get my a*se in gear and plumb the sink in :-)

Jon


"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Pete C
writes
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 20:59:29 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , chris French

I always push the pipe home and then back it off just a bit, otherwise
you can be tightening against the pipe rather than compressing the olive
into the pipe IYSWIM

Hi,

Good point, do you need to use PTFE or jointing compound at all?

I've never used it on compression joints

--
geoff

Jon wrote:

Has anyone encountered this spontaneous opening of a service valve before?

Are you sure it wasn't just slightly open when you left it and it's
taken several hours to leak enough water to fill the cup and spill over
(assuming it's vertical)? I've been helping a friend with his bathroom
and we've left several of these valves in place with no problems at all.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jon wrote:

Well, in a late follow up to my original post...

For various reasons, sink still isn't plumbed in. At the moment, I've
just got the pipework terminating in service valves (the ones with
the little balls in). Everything has been fine, no leaks anywhere.

Got up this morning to find a small puddle on the floor. Water was
coming out of the top of one of the service valves. I twiddled it
slightly with the screwdriver and it stopped. Not very happy with
that, as I'm sure you can imagine.

Has anyone encountered this spontaneous opening of a service valve
before? Needless to say I'm a bit scared by the whole thing and I've
left the water turned on today.

Maybe I should just get my a*se in gear and plumb the sink in :-)

Jon

They don't normally leak provided they're turned off properly - with the
slot at right-angles to the flow direction.

If you're worried, fit short temporary outlet pipes with push-fit end caps
on. That will put off the evil hour a bit longer! g
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Set Square wrote in message ...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jon wrote:

Well, in a late follow up to my original post...

For various reasons, sink still isn't plumbed in. At the moment, I've
just got the pipework terminating in service valves (the ones with
the little balls in). Everything has been fine, no leaks anywhere.

Got up this morning to find a small puddle on the floor. Water was
coming out of the top of one of the service valves. I twiddled it
slightly with the screwdriver and it stopped. Not very happy with
that, as I'm sure you can imagine.

Has anyone encountered this spontaneous opening of a service valve
before? Needless to say I'm a bit scared by the whole thing and I've
left the water turned on today.

Maybe I should just get my a*se in gear and plumb the sink in :-)

I've had them leak when the nut isn't tight enough to stop the valve moving
round independently which, depending on the direction, has the effect of
undoing the nut slightly. They never seem to be pointing in exactly the
right direction, so it's tempting to just twist them manually.

In article ,
Jon wrote:
Well, in a late follow up to my original post...

For various reasons, sink still isn't plumbed in. At the moment, I've just
got the pipework terminating in service valves (the ones with the little
balls in). Everything has been fine, no leaks anywhere.

Got up this morning to find a small puddle on the floor. Water was coming
out of the top of one of the service valves. I twiddled it slightly with the
screwdriver and it stopped. Not very happy with that, as I'm sure you can
imagine.

Has anyone encountered this spontaneous opening of a service valve before?
Needless to say I'm a bit scared by the whole thing and I've left the water
turned on today.

Maybe I should just get my a*se in gear and plumb the sink in :-)

Nah. Trust in yourself!

I've had this happen before - some of them require very precise adjustment
else the weep a tiny fraction. In any-case, you'll have the sink in
soon, then there won't be anything to wory about, and if you ever have
to change the sink, or taps, etc. then such a tiny amount of water is
hardly anything to be undully concerned about.

Just make sure it is coming through the valve and not through the
compression fitting, but it sounds like this is the case for you anyway.

Gordon

I don't think so. It's been there for about 4 weeks now (yes, I know, I'm
slow - things keep getting in the way of finishing it off!). I can't see it
taking that long to start overflowing and then to have formed a puddle
overnight. But I suppose anything is possible. None of the others have
caused me any problems.

Jon

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
Jon wrote:

Has anyone encountered this spontaneous opening of a service valve
before?

Are you sure it wasn't just slightly open when you left it and it's
taken several hours to leak enough water to fill the cup and spill over
(assuming it's vertical)? I've been helping a friend with his bathroom
and we've left several of these valves in place with no problems at all.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

"Jon" wrote in
:


Got up this morning to find a small puddle on the floor. Water was
coming out of the top of one of the service valves. I twiddled it
slightly with the screwdriver and it stopped. Not very happy with
that, as I'm sure you can imagine.

Has anyone encountered this spontaneous opening of a service valve
before? Needless to say I'm a bit scared by the whole thing and I've
left the water turned on today.

I wouldn't expect one of those things not to leak a bit - they're only
meant to allow you to work on bits downstream.

I put in full bore lever valves, specially if they're out of sight, they
give an absolute seal for as long as you like (I recently had a 22mm
directly below my cold tank turned off for a couple of months while I put
in a new cylinder).

I also remove them wherever practicable (don't tell anyone). There are
equally good ways of getting a temporary cutoff, and for longer, as S/S
says, cap the pipe.

mike