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Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
Hello
I've just had an old Armitage Shanks toilet replaced with a new Heritage Bathrooms model. The AS cistern had an upstanding pipe which allowed water to run out the house in the event that the inlet valve failed - which it did a few times over the years. The HB cistern has no such external overflow and as far as I can see, if I hold down the float it simply overflows over the top of the cistern. Is this correct, or am I missing something here? Many Thanks Des |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:35:24 +0000 (UTC), "Des"
wrote: Hello I've just had an old Armitage Shanks toilet replaced with a new Heritage Bathrooms model. The AS cistern had an upstanding pipe which allowed water to run out the house in the event that the inlet valve failed - which it did a few times over the years. The HB cistern has no such external overflow and as far as I can see, if I hold down the float it simply overflows over the top of the cistern. Is this correct, or am I missing something here? [T] I thought they can overflow into the pan these days? All the best .. T i m |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
On 25 Feb 2004, Des wrote
Hello I've just had an old Armitage Shanks toilet replaced with a new Heritage Bathrooms model. The AS cistern had an upstanding pipe which allowed water to run out the house in the event that the inlet valve failed - which it did a few times over the years. The HB cistern has no such external overflow and as far as I can see, if I hold down the float it simply overflows over the top of the cistern. Is this correct, or am I missing something here? Sounds odd; are you sure there isn't an overflow hole out the side of the cistern, up towards the top? I'm not positive about this, , but I *think* close-coupled tanks have an upstand pipe that overflows out the bottom, as it were, whilst low- rise and high-rise cisterns have the overflow hole higher up, on the side. -- Cheers, Harvey For e-mail, change harvey to whhvs. |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Des wrote: Hello I've just had an old Armitage Shanks toilet replaced with a new Heritage Bathrooms model. The AS cistern had an upstanding pipe which allowed water to run out the house in the event that the inlet valve failed - which it did a few times over the years. The HB cistern has no such external overflow and as far as I can see, if I hold down the float it simply overflows over the top of the cistern. Is this correct, or am I missing something here? Many Thanks Des Some modern cisterns apparently have internal overflows - which flow into the pan. Have you actually *tried* holding the float down to see what happens? -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole! |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
"Set Square" wrote in message ... Some modern cisterns apparently have internal overflows - which flow into the pan. Have you actually *tried* holding the float down to see what happens? -- Yes, I did and the level reached the lowest part of the cistern rim (why on earth do they have semi-circular cut out on the back?) and began to overflow. I tried again with a bucket and this time added water more gently and it seemed to cope. There is some form of internal overflow through the siphon into the pan but it would only deal with a leaking valve - certainly not a complete failure. The AS design was much better imo. I'll have to hope that modern valves are less likely to stick open due to sand/soil in the supply following works - that happened with my compact silent valves a few times. Thanks |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
I have the same toilet and had the same problem! I just replaced the
standard Heritage supplied valve with a Wickes Torbeck Valve. This gives you inserts to adjust the flow into the cistern, my cistern now takes 80 secs to fill instead of 45 but it is much quieter (almost silent) and if I jam the valve open the flow is at a rate that the internal overflow can cope with.I can jam the valve open for 20 mins and the level never rises above the internal overflow, as you pointed out with the standard fitting it overflowed in about 20 - 30 secs. John "Des" wrote in message ... "Set Square" wrote in message ... Some modern cisterns apparently have internal overflows - which flow into the pan. Have you actually *tried* holding the float down to see what happens? -- Yes, I did and the level reached the lowest part of the cistern rim (why on earth do they have semi-circular cut out on the back?) and began to overflow. I tried again with a bucket and this time added water more gently and it seemed to cope. There is some form of internal overflow through the siphon into the pan but it would only deal with a leaking valve - certainly not a complete failure. The AS design was much better imo. I'll have to hope that modern valves are less likely to stick open due to sand/soil in the supply following works - that happened with my compact silent valves a few times. Thanks |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
"Des" wrote in message
... Hello I've just had an old Armitage Shanks toilet replaced with a new Heritage Bathrooms model. The AS cistern had an upstanding pipe which allowed water to run out the house in the event that the inlet valve failed - which it did a few times over the years. The HB cistern has no such external overflow and as far as I can see, if I hold down the float it simply overflows over the top of the cistern. Is this correct, or am I missing something here? Many Thanks Des Modern cisterns/syphons are designed to overflow into the pan. If yours is not there is likely a problem. HTH Rob |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
Des wrote
There is some form of internal overflow through the siphon into the pan but it would only deal with a leaking valve - certainly not a complete failure. Don't forget you can regulate the water flow with the external isolating valve. It makes filling much quieter too! Peter |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
"Des" wrote:
Hello Des D| I've just had an old Armitage Shanks toilet replaced with a D| new Heritage Bathrooms model. The AS cistern had an Ha! I've just fitted a Heritage toilet also. It's nice. D| upstanding pipe which allowed water to run out the house in D| the event that the inlet valve failed - which it did a few D| times over the years. The HB cistern has no such external D| overflow and as far as I can see, if I hold down the float D| it simply overflows over the top of the cistern. D| Is this correct, or am I missing something here? I had this same question. The ceramic cistern has no hole for a conventional overflow. The instructions for the flush assembly DO mention an internal overflow but it's by no means apparent that what you're given is such a beast. However... When I hold down the ballcock on mine to simulate an overflow, water DOES drain down to the pan (as per the new regs that allow an internal overflow). I have absolutely no idea how it does this - there's no physical difference to the assembly compared to a normal one, but it "just works", so I stopped worrying about it. It doesn't drain enough to cope with a full blown entry failure, but then - a 21.5mm conventional overflow often wouldn't either. Mine, and I suspect, yours - are internal overflows that will cope with a small volume of water which is adequate for the majority of "leaking" feeds. It could be you don't have the internal overflow gubbins inside, or if you "had it fitted" the plumber substited it or somehow messed up the fitting. I can confirm, though, that HB supplied mine with an internal overflow which works through some kind of magic. Hold down the float to raise the water level until it's about to flood then check the pan, I suspect you'll see water trickling down. -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
Hello Harvey HVS| Sounds odd; are you sure there isn't an overflow hole out HVS| the side of the cistern, up towards the top? Not with the new ones. Makes it a lot easier and neater to fix, especially on internal walls. HVS| I'm not positive about this, , but I *think* close-coupled HVS| tanks have an upstand pipe that overflows out the bottom, as HVS| it were, whilst low- rise and high-rise cisterns have the HVS| overflow hole higher up, on the side. I have the same cistern - it has four holes: 1. Water entry. Bottom. 2. Flush out - Bottom. 3. Handle hole. 4. The big hole in the top under the lid... (Plus a couple of screw holes) That's it - no conventional overflow at all. -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
On 26 Feb 2004, Simon Avery wrote
Harvey Van Sickle wrote: Hello Harvey HVS| Sounds odd; are you sure there isn't an overflow hole out HVS| the side of the cistern, up towards the top? Not with the new ones. Makes it a lot easier and neater to fix, especially on internal walls. Thanks; wasn't aware of that. Reading the description in your other post, though, doesn't this invisibility lead to "not knowing and therefore not fixing" minor overflow problems? It seems to me that one of the advantages of a visible overflow is that it acts as a flag to let you know that you should look at the thing so it doesn't get worse. -- Cheers, Harvey For e-mail, change harvey to whhvs. |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
Simon Avery wrote:
However... When I hold down the ballcock on mine to simulate an overflow, water DOES drain down to the pan (as per the new regs that allow an internal overflow). I have absolutely no idea how it does this - there's no physical difference to the assembly compared to a normal one, but it "just works", so I stopped worrying about it. It doesn't drain enough to cope with a full blown entry failure, but then - a 21.5mm conventional overflow often wouldn't either. On reading this thread I decided to check 2 cisterns I've installed in my house recently (different cisterns but both with internal overflows). I held the ballcock right down on both and both coped totally - the water level rose slightly but then remained constant - overflow going down the pan. They would certainly cope with a full blown entry failure. -- Regards, Tròy the Black Lab. |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
Is this correct, or am I missing something here?
Just fitted new toilet - wondered where the overflow was as well but then read it's built in, down the pan. Rob. |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
It is an older model though. Heritage seem to have gone over to
pushbutton flushes, which we dislike, so we had the display model out of the showroom which has a lever. Any particular reason? Cheers, Rob |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
Hello Harvey HVS| Reading the description in your other post, though, doesn't HVS| this invisibility lead to "not knowing and therefore not HVS| fixing" minor overflow problems? HVS| It seems to me that one of the advantages of a visible HVS| overflow is that it acts as a flag to let you know that you HVS| should look at the thing so it doesn't get worse. That's why they always had the external overflow, but I guess they're less fussy now or maybe modern materials are less likely to fail? The overflow /is/ noticable, you can see the water running down the inside back of the pan. But it's far less annoying than a traditional overflow so possibly is less likely to get fixed so quickly. But I like it anyway, I didn't want to spoil my lovely new tiles by poking a big bit of plastic through them. :) -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
"Simon Avery" wrote in message
... "Des" wrote: I had this same question. The ceramic cistern has no hole for a conventional overflow. The instructions for the flush assembly DO mention an internal overflow but it's by no means apparent that what you're given is such a beast. However... When I hold down the ballcock on mine to simulate an overflow, water DOES drain down to the pan (as per the new regs that allow an internal overflow). I have absolutely no idea how it does this - there's no physical difference to the assembly compared to a normal one, but it "just works", so I stopped worrying about it. .... It could be you don't have the internal overflow gubbins inside There's no extra gubbins: water simply flows over the top of the inverted-U-shaped part of the syphon assembly and down into the pan. The only difference between that and a bog[sorry] standard arrangement is the relative levels of the top of the syphon and the external overflow on conventional cisterns which allow water to reach the top of the syphon - on a normal cistern water would reach the overflow outlet first. It doesn't drain enough to cope with a full blown entry failure, but then - a 21.5mm conventional overflow often wouldn't either. It should be able to cope with practically full-bore mains flow into the cistern, but for some reason cistern makers do like to put stupid cutouts into the back of the cistern for no apparent reason which compromise the design. As for the question of which type of overflow is more easily visible, I think a drip is more visible from an external pipe, but I've seen external pipes in inconspicuous (even invisible) places where a minor river can (and in some cases I've seen, does) discharge without anyone noticing, which they would with an overflow down the pan. |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
"Huge" wrote in message ... "Des" writes: Hello Thanks - the issue is now resolved BTW, I'm not greatly pleased with Heritage Bathrooms. The first vanity unit for the sink, and the toilet seat, were both damaged. The vanity had marks down the front where some decoration had been routed out and the toilet seat had a "ding" in it. This is not the first such remark I've heard in connection with Heritage. Our cistern came without the handle - caveat emptor! Des |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
It is an older model though. Heritage seem to have gone over to
pushbutton flushes, which we dislike, so we had the display model out of the showroom which has a lever. Interesting comment, both this years and last years Heritage catalogue have mainly handle operated flushes, although there are some ranges with push button ones. I presume you did have the opportunity to see a catalogue or were buying from somewhere that did not offer the full heritage range. Anyway, I agree I would not want a push button flush, guess we must be traditionalists! |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
"pushbutton flushes, which we dislike".
But why do you dislike them? :-) Rob. |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
Ours is brand new and lever-equipped (I'd hate pushbutton too), so
What's all this hate about a poor little pushbutton? I rather like mine. Rob |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
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Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
I have no idea. Just don't. Like slipon shoes.
Ahh, now slipon shoes I can relate to. |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
It's the same thing really - not such positive control of the
situation...... Maybe but it's a BUTTON - guys like pressing buttons. Do you have more control with a lever? Rob. |
Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
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Toilet Cistern - where's the overflow
(Huge) wrote:
Hello Huge H| I'd have agreed with you, except the repeated attempts to H| get undamaged woodwork, and the quality of that woodwork has H| dampened my enthusiasm. Yeah, dragging problems like that can seriously change your viewpoint. The woodwork we've had, mahogany and pine bath surrounds - have been fine. Quite well packaged and protected, but if the local outlet (who do the final delivery since HB don't deliver direct afaik) are kack handed then it could all go bad. Our shower hose was held up for a month, and HB said they'd sent the WC flush handle twice, but it never appeared. (Local stockists replaced it with one from an over order). All the big items were fine, though. 2nd time around and (touch wood) everything's going very smoothly. On the home straight now! H| I've had to stop for the moment. Other things to do... I'm steaming ahead now, desperate to try out this shower! Currently having a cup of tea whilst covered in tile dust and having left grouty footprints across the hall... -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ |
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