Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment. Ideas welcome!


NT

wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to
meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise.
But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim
nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side
of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there.
Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how
to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to
slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to
get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the
string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars
will end up out of alignment. Ideas welcome!


NT

Skewed screws, counter bored for heads and the hole filled?

--

Roger Hayter

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 15:22:46 -0800 (PST)
wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps
to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space
up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right
side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar.
But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear
how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg
with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with
using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being
angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2
nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but
my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of
alignment. Ideas welcome!



Some sort of biscuit joint at the difficult string?

On Monday, 6 January 2020 23:44:47 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to
meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise.
But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim
nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side
of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there.
Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how
to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to
slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to
get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the
string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars
will end up out of alignment. Ideas welcome!


NT

Skewed screws, counter bored for heads and the hole filled?

Yeah, I reckon so.


NT

On 06/01/2020 23:22, wrote:
Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps
to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space
up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right
side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar.
But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear
how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg
with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with
using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being
angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2

A dowel would not actually be that difficult - drill the initial hole in
the stringer at a slight angle, and then straighten the drill as you
reach full depth. In effect creating a squashed conical hole - with some
slop near the surface in the front to back sense. That should allow the
down to enter at an angle, but then straighten and tighten as it bottoms
out.

nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but
my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of
alignment. Ideas welcome!

Rail end sockets used with a bar:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-loc...pack/5008v#_=p


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

A dowel in a deep hole with a coil spring behind it?

wrote:

how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar
has to slide into place without being angled
Spring loaded dowels?

https://www.berger-tools.co.uk/Indexing_Plungers_Locking_Pins__Spring_Plungers_/Gn610_Spring_Loaded_Shell_Steel_Or_Stainless_Steel

https://www.fdbonline.co.uk/products/245-9303?_pos=24&_sid=a607fc399&_ss=r

https://shutterplus.co.uk/product/louvre-pins-hidden-tilt-rod

On 06/01/2020 23:22, wrote:
Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment. Ideas welcome!


NT


What is the cross-section of the bars? Could you use pocket screws?

--
Cheers,
Roger

On 06/01/2020 23:22, wrote:
Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment. Ideas welcome!


NT

I'm not sure what size the bars are, but let's say 1" square. Use two
strips of 1" x 1/2" for each one instead, rout out a shallow slot in the
ends so as to form a hole in the end if the two strips were held together.

Use a woodscrew with a steel spacer to form a dowel projecting from the
inside of the stairs - or just a wooden dowel - then clamp and glue or
screw the strips together around this.

Cheers
--
Clive

Clive Arthur wrote:

I'm not sure what size the bars are, but let's say 1" square.

Use wooden brush handle as dowel instead of square bars, drill a partial
hole in the left stringer, drill a full hole in the right stringer,
insert the long dowel and glue-up?

Or use pipe instead of dowel.

On 06/01/2020 23:22, wrote:
Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment. Ideas welcome!


NT


Glue first and then nail.
Make a removable jig to position the bars so they don't move when nailing.

Is nailing strong enough to survive someone (accidentally) kicking the
bar when ascending the stairs?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 07/01/2020 09:46, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, wrote:
Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps
to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space
up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side
is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But
the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one
could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with
little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a
dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so
it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an
angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience
with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment. Ideas
welcome!


NT

I'm not sure what size the bars are, but let's say 1" square.Â* Use two
strips of 1" x 1/2" for each one instead, rout out a shallow slot in the
ends so as to form a hole in the end if the two strips were held together.

Use a woodscrew with a steel spacer to form a dowel projecting from the
inside of the stairs - or just a wooden dowel - then clamp and glue or
screw the strips together around this.

Two woodscrews left proud by 10mm or so, one above the other, The
softwood strips would probably not need routing, the screw heads would
bite in nicely when clamped.

Cheers
--
Clive

Or screw some timber under the tread?

https://images.app.goo.gl/8UBZ7msYs6PWtfsw8

GB wrote:
Or screw some timber under the tread?

https://images.app.goo.gl/8UBZ7msYs6PWtfsw8




I think that would look a lot better than an €œextra bar€�.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps
to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space
up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right
side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar.
But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear
how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg
with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with
using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being
angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2

A dowel would not actually be that difficult - drill the initial hole in
the stringer at a slight angle, and then straighten the drill as you
reach full depth. In effect creating a squashed conical hole - with some
slop near the surface in the front to back sense. That should allow the
down to enter at an angle, but then straighten and tighten as it bottoms
out.

A few people seem to have misunderstood this. It's not possible to angle the bar more than marginally when inserting it, so any solution relying on sticking one end in then the other won't work.


Rail end sockets used with a bar:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-loc...pack/5008v#_=p

That would work, but it would look awful against what's already there.


NT

On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 05:05:10 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar
has to slide into place without being angled
Spring loaded dowels?

https://www.berger-tools.co.uk/Indexing_Plungers_Locking_Pins__Spring_Plungers_/Gn610_Spring_Loaded_Shell_Steel_Or_Stainless_Steel

https://www.fdbonline.co.uk/products/245-9303?_pos=24&_sid=a607fc399&_ss=r

https://shutterplus.co.uk/product/louvre-pins-hidden-tilt-rod

I never knew such things existed. Now I do. Cheers.


NT

On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 08:21:30 UTC, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment.. Ideas welcome!


NT


What is the cross-section of the bars? Could you use pocket screws?

2x2. I reckon that's what I'll do. On one staircase I can position them invisibly, but on the other I can't.


NT

On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 09:46:21 UTC, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment.. Ideas welcome!


NT

I'm not sure what size the bars are, but let's say 1" square. Use two
strips of 1" x 1/2" for each one instead, rout out a shallow slot in the
ends so as to form a hole in the end if the two strips were held together..

Use a woodscrew with a steel spacer to form a dowel projecting from the
inside of the stairs - or just a wooden dowel - then clamp and glue or
screw the strips together around this.

Cheers

Clever. The wood has now been cut up ready to fit.


NT

On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 09:51:06 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
Clive Arthur wrote:

I'm not sure what size the bars are, but let's say 1" square.

Use wooden brush handle as dowel instead of square bars, drill a partial
hole in the left stringer, drill a full hole in the right stringer,
insert the long dowel and glue-up?

Or use pipe instead of dowel.

Yuck, but yes it'd work. Planning to pocket screw or angle nail.


NT

On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 09:55:45 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment.. Ideas welcome!


NT


Glue first and then nail.

Good idea, if the glue will hold when nailing. I'm not sure it will though.


Make a removable jig to position the bars so they don't move when nailing..

Yes I plan to, though I'm not as optimistic about them not moving.


Is nailing strong enough to survive someone (accidentally) kicking the
bar when ascending the stairs?

I think so.


NT

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 09:46:21 UTC, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment. Ideas welcome!


NT

I'm not sure what size the bars are, but let's say 1" square. Use two
strips of 1" x 1/2" for each one instead, rout out a shallow slot in the
ends so as to form a hole in the end if the two strips were held together.

Use a woodscrew with a steel spacer to form a dowel projecting from the
inside of the stairs - or just a wooden dowel - then clamp and glue or
screw the strips together around this.

Cheers

Clever. The wood has now been cut up ready to fit.


NT


Now who'd do a thing like that...
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 08/01/2020 19:53, wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the
gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the
space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The
right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end
of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible,
so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so
it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly?
The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into
place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a
dowel into position. 2

A dowel would not actually be that difficult - drill the initial
hole in the stringer at a slight angle, and then straighten the
drill as you reach full depth. In effect creating a squashed
conical hole - with some slop near the surface in the front to back
sense. That should allow the down to enter at an angle, but then
straighten and tighten as it bottoms out.

A few people seem to have misunderstood this. It's not possible to
angle the bar more than marginally when inserting it, so any solution
relying on sticking one end in then the other won't work.

Perhaps a diagram / photo would help?

Could you for example route a recess for the bar end that allows it to
be inserted deeper than required for assembly before being withdrawn
slightly for final fix?




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 21:11:53 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/01/2020 19:53, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the
gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the
space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The
right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end
of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible,
so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so
it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly?
The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into
place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a
dowel into position. 2

A dowel would not actually be that difficult - drill the initial
hole in the stringer at a slight angle, and then straighten the
drill as you reach full depth. In effect creating a squashed
conical hole - with some slop near the surface in the front to back
sense. That should allow the down to enter at an angle, but then
straighten and tighten as it bottoms out.

A few people seem to have misunderstood this. It's not possible to
angle the bar more than marginally when inserting it, so any solution
relying on sticking one end in then the other won't work.

Perhaps a diagram / photo would help?

Could you for example route a recess for the bar end that allows it to
be inserted deeper than required for assembly before being withdrawn
slightly for final fix?

No. And if I tried, patches of raw wood amid dark would look awful. I'll use angled screw/nails, it seems to be the only workable option.


NT

On 08/01/2020 19:53, wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps
to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space
up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right
side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar.
But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear
how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg
with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with
using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being
angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2

I'm late into this so apology if this has already been suggested.

You need something like this, Ive use mine to good effect.

Silverline Pocket Hole Screw Jig c/w Dowel Drill Sets Screw Joint Hole
Tools | eBay https://ebay.us/k3T2tJ

Mike

On Thursday, 9 January 2020 09:55:23 UTC, Muddymike wrote:
On 08/01/2020 19:53, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps
to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space
up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right
side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar.
But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear
how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg
with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with
using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being
angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2

I'm late into this so apology if this has already been suggested.

You need something like this, Ive use mine to good effect.

Silverline Pocket Hole Screw Jig c/w Dowel Drill Sets Screw Joint Hole
Tools | eBay https://ebay.us/k3T2tJ

Mike

I can't think why I'd need that, and isn't the angle too shallow? A bit of card will make a template for marking where to drill so they're all the same. Plan to drill at nearer 45 degrees.


NT

On 09/01/2020 18:00, wrote:
On Thursday, 9 January 2020 09:55:23 UTC, Muddymike wrote:
On 08/01/2020 19:53, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce
the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of
the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be
fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string
into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair
is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there.
Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L
brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a
dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being
angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into
position. 2

I'm late into this so apology if this has already been suggested.

You need something like this, Ive use mine to good effect.

Silverline Pocket Hole Screw Jig c/w Dowel Drill Sets Screw Joint
Hole Tools | eBay https://ebay.us/k3T2tJ

Mike

I can't think why I'd need that, and isn't the angle too shallow?

No, its just right :-)

A bit of card will make a template for marking where to drill so
they're all the same. Plan to drill at nearer 45 degrees.

The point of a pocket hole jig is it makes strong joints quickly and
repeatedly. While it all also make them consistent such that they line
up, that is not the main selling point.

The pocket hole has a flat bottom, which when used with the correct
pocket hole screws[1], will give a much stronger joint that will not
tend to split the end of the wood in the same way that driving a normal
wood screw at an angle will.

Ideally you need one with a proper profiled pocket hole drill bit with
the shoulder on it:

https://ebay.us/hmjePW


[1] e.g. with pan/wafer head, not countersunk:

https://ebay.us/OXSnHZ


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, 9 January 2020 20:42:33 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/01/2020 18:00, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 9 January 2020 09:55:23 UTC, Muddymike wrote:
On 08/01/2020 19:53, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce
the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of
the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be
fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string
into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair
is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there.
Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L
brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a
dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being
angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into
position. 2

I'm late into this so apology if this has already been suggested.

You need something like this, Ive use mine to good effect.

Silverline Pocket Hole Screw Jig c/w Dowel Drill Sets Screw Joint
Hole Tools | eBay https://ebay.us/k3T2tJ

Mike

I can't think why I'd need that, and isn't the angle too shallow?

No, its just right :-)

A bit of card will make a template for marking where to drill so
they're all the same. Plan to drill at nearer 45 degrees.

The point of a pocket hole jig is it makes strong joints quickly and
repeatedly. While it all also make them consistent such that they line
up, that is not the main selling point.

The pocket hole has a flat bottom, which when used with the correct
pocket hole screws[1], will give a much stronger joint that will not
tend to split the end of the wood in the same way that driving a normal
wood screw at an angle will.

Ideally you need one with a proper profiled pocket hole drill bit with
the shoulder on it:

https://ebay.us/hmjePW


[1] e.g. with pan/wafer head, not countersunk:

https://ebay.us/OXSnHZ

I realise the shoulder with raised head is a plus for strength, but the shallow angle is a minus. It would either leave a thin bit of wood one side of the screw or the screw would be huge to get anywhere near the centre for better strength. A countersunk hole plus not overtightening does the job well enough.


NT

On 09/01/2020 18:00, wrote:

I can't think why I'd need that, and isn't the angle too shallow? A bit of card will make a template for marking where to drill so they're all the same. Plan to drill at nearer 45 degrees.


Depending on access, I would take a block of scrap wood, drill a hole
through it at 45 degrees and then clamp it to what you want to drill to
act as a drill guide. In my experience attempting to keep a fixed angle
using a card guide with a drill freehand is difficult. With a
pre-drilled scrap of wood the drill bits keep going at the correct angle.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Friday, 10 January 2020 13:12:01 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 09/01/2020 18:00, tabbypurr wrote:

I can't think why I'd need that, and isn't the angle too shallow? A bit of card will make a template for marking where to drill so they're all the same. Plan to drill at nearer 45 degrees.


Depending on access, I would take a block of scrap wood, drill a hole
through it at 45 degrees and then clamp it to what you want to drill to
act as a drill guide. In my experience attempting to keep a fixed angle
using a card guide with a drill freehand is difficult. With a
pre-drilled scrap of wood the drill bits keep going at the correct angle.

I measured the point to drill then went in freehand. It doesn't matter if there's a bit of variation on angle.


NT

On 10/01/2020 01:39, wrote:
On Thursday, 9 January 2020 20:42:33 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/01/2020 18:00, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 9 January 2020 09:55:23 UTC, Muddymike wrote:
On 08/01/2020 19:53, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to
reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the
middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how
they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail
through the string into the end of the bar. But the left
outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how
one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks
bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly?
The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to
slide into place without being angled, so it would not be
possible to get a dowel into position. 2

I'm late into this so apology if this has already been
suggested.

You need something like this, Ive use mine to good effect.

Silverline Pocket Hole Screw Jig c/w Dowel Drill Sets Screw
Joint Hole Tools | eBay https://ebay.us/k3T2tJ

Mike

I can't think why I'd need that, and isn't the angle too
shallow?

No, its just right :-)

A bit of card will make a template for marking where to drill so
they're all the same. Plan to drill at nearer 45 degrees.

The point of a pocket hole jig is it makes strong joints quickly
and repeatedly. While it all also make them consistent such that
they line up, that is not the main selling point.

The pocket hole has a flat bottom, which when used with the
correct pocket hole screws[1], will give a much stronger joint that
will not tend to split the end of the wood in the same way that
driving a normal wood screw at an angle will.

Ideally you need one with a proper profiled pocket hole drill bit
with the shoulder on it:

https://ebay.us/hmjePW


[1] e.g. with pan/wafer head, not countersunk:

https://ebay.us/OXSnHZ

I realise the shoulder with raised head is a plus for strength, but
the shallow angle is a minus. It would either leave a thin bit of
wood one side of the screw or the screw would be huge to get anywhere
near the centre for better strength. A countersunk hole plus not
overtightening does the job well enough.

The angle is such that when you place a pocket hole on the end of a 19mm
bit of wood/ply the screw will emerge from the end approximately in the
middle of the thickness, and the part of the screw that penetrates the
adjacent panel, will remain within the footprint of the end of the
timber with the pocket hole.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 10 January 2020 23:53:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/01/2020 01:39, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 9 January 2020 20:42:33 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/01/2020 18:00, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 9 January 2020 09:55:23 UTC, Muddymike wrote:
On 08/01/2020 19:53, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/01/2020 23:22, tabbypurr wrote:

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to
reduce the gaps to meet BR. They'll be positioned in the
middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how
they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail
through the string into the end of the bar. But the left
outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how
one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks
bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly?
The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to
slide into place without being angled, so it would not be
possible to get a dowel into position. 2

I'm late into this so apology if this has already been
suggested.

You need something like this, Ive use mine to good effect.

Silverline Pocket Hole Screw Jig c/w Dowel Drill Sets Screw
Joint Hole Tools | eBay https://ebay.us/k3T2tJ

Mike

I can't think why I'd need that, and isn't the angle too
shallow?

No, its just right :-)

A bit of card will make a template for marking where to drill so
they're all the same. Plan to drill at nearer 45 degrees.

The point of a pocket hole jig is it makes strong joints quickly
and repeatedly. While it all also make them consistent such that
they line up, that is not the main selling point.

The pocket hole has a flat bottom, which when used with the
correct pocket hole screws[1], will give a much stronger joint that
will not tend to split the end of the wood in the same way that
driving a normal wood screw at an angle will.

Ideally you need one with a proper profiled pocket hole drill bit
with the shoulder on it:

https://ebay.us/hmjePW


[1] e.g. with pan/wafer head, not countersunk:

https://ebay.us/OXSnHZ

I realise the shoulder with raised head is a plus for strength, but
the shallow angle is a minus. It would either leave a thin bit of
wood one side of the screw or the screw would be huge to get anywhere
near the centre for better strength. A countersunk hole plus not
overtightening does the job well enough.

The angle is such that when you place a pocket hole on the end of a 19mm
bit of wood/ply the screw will emerge from the end approximately in the
middle of the thickness, and the part of the screw that penetrates the
adjacent panel, will remain within the footprint of the end of the
timber with the pocket hole.

Yup. I'm using 44mm. Main thing with an angled screw is to countersink & not tighten it up too much. It's sorted now.


NT